What do you all think about a single shotgun? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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drider
01-22-2010, 18:58
Hi all i want to hear what are your thoughts about a single shotgun, that only holds one round? I may just buy one to find out since they are only $100. Who makes them, and are they pretty dead reliable?

Jeager106
01-22-2010, 19:58
Hi all i want to hear what are your thoughts about a single shotgun, that only holds one round? I may just buy one to find out since they are only $100. Who makes them, and are they pretty dead reliable?

One presumes to think you mean a single shot shotgun??? Yes?
It will do litterally anything a repeater will do but, sadly, it will only do it once.
Personally I would not waste $100.00 bucks on a single shot when they can be had used about any place for between $45 and $75 bucks.
I would put a 5 shell carrier on the stock, one of the elastic WalMart carrier things for under 10 bucks and learn to shot , break it down, eject the empty, reload and be ready to shoot again.
Chances are real good a 2nd shot won't ever be needed.
You may consider cutting the barrel down to about 22/24 inches.
No need for a real shorty like 18 inches as the muzzle blast will flat blind you and you won't be able to hear anything for a week.
Most single shots are chambered in 3 inch so I'd go with a serious load, like #4 buck.
Just a few thoughts since you ask.
I would not feel real handicapped with a single shot 12 bore loaded heavy.

aippi
01-22-2010, 20:19
For hunting yes, rabbits and birds don't shoot back. Not for defense. Be warned, they are lighter so the recoil is heavy and that 3" magnum round will rock your world. If you do cut down the barrel as sugested above the recoil is even worse.

Dr. J Frame
01-22-2010, 21:12
link-This video gives some demonstration on use of a single-shot for defense. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgwHQCJwWw)

I'd probably choose one over a .22 rimfire and maybe even a handgun for home defense, but some quality pump shotguns are also relatively inexpensive. They also provide quicker follow-up shots, if needed. If the average defensive encounter truly averages 2.3 seconds, then this might come in handy.
Who makes them, and are they pretty dead reliable?
They are about as reliable and simplistic as a design can get. But pumps, double-barrels and even autos have proven to last generations as well.

WellArmedSheep
01-22-2010, 21:43
I keep an NEF in 20g toward the front of the safe for snake defense.

drider
01-22-2010, 23:09
Thanks guys!

space_weazel
01-23-2010, 02:05
I bought a NEF 12ga and chopped it down to 18.5 just for kicks, it was $50. I get the aguilia shorts and teach newbies how to shoot trap / skeet.

inzone
01-23-2010, 07:42
I pick these up everytime i see a good deal on them....I have a whole gaggle of them, I use them primarily to keep on hand to give to family and kin if shtf, they are about the simplest yet most effective CQB weapon, especially for inexperienced shooters.... they provide an inexpensive little CQB force multiplier and also they provide dome redundancy for your semi-auto shotties and pumps. I know they are the prefered firearm in jungles and swamps by bush folk because they are so simple that they dont malfunctin do to humidity and muck and are so easy to clean.

TxGun
01-23-2010, 11:35
The H&R single shot shotguns, Topper and Pardner, offer a very high degree of value for your money, IMO. (FYI...the H&R brand now includes all single shots formerly branded NEF. Since 2007, the only NEF-branded guns are the imported pump and auto shotguns). They are solid and reliable. I have upwards of 20 pump guns, several of all the major brands, but few, if any, are a better value than the H&R single shots. JMO.

drider
01-23-2010, 13:43
hows century international arms?

David Armstrong
01-23-2010, 16:57
The single shot works fine. The need for fast 2nd shots is somewhat over-rated, and the single shot, when you learn to use it, can maintain a pretty good rate of fire. Is it as good as a more sophisticated gun? No, but it will work for most situations.

OVERTHEHILLGUY
01-25-2010, 19:48
"shoot what you got" Clint Smith

forward men.....for God sake FORWARD!!!!

gnepig
01-25-2010, 21:37
I pick these up everytime i see a good deal on them....I have a whole gaggle of them, I use them primarily to keep on hand to give to family and kin if shtf, they are about the simplest yet most effective CQB weapon, especially for inexperienced shooters.... they provide an inexpensive little CQB force multiplier and also they provide dome redundancy for your semi-auto shotties and pumps. I know they are the prefered firearm in jungles and swamps by bush folk because they are so simple that they dont malfunctin do to humidity and muck and are so easy to clean.


I like this way of thinking... Everyone I know knows I collect guns and most have some idea that when the shtf that they will just show up at my house and I will start handing out guns and ammo. Yeah, well, I say good luck with that. But I think collecting cheap shotguns is a great idea to share with friends and family. (crap, now I gotta get another safe...)

BTW, a 12 ga single shot shotgun was my very first gun, got it from my dad for my 16th birthday.

desertfox
01-26-2010, 08:03
I have a single shoot handed down from my dad. he used to huint with it. I remember sitting in the blind watching him duck hunt with it. when I got old enough and he up-graded to a semi-auto (Christmas Present from us) I got that single shot. I still have it in the back of the safe.

ElevatedThreat
01-30-2010, 19:21
Look for a good used Savage-Stevens 94 in 12 gauge. Should be found anywhere for well under 100 bucks. Very, very common.

These guns are built like a tank. It may not look like much outside, but they are reliable. Ignore the fact that the case colors are long gone, and the barrel blue has rusted and thinned.

You won't find anything as well-made today. I don't think we even make steel like this anymore in the United States.

Cut the 30" barrel back to 22." Re-blue the barrel with cold blue, applied to a warmed barrel. You can polish the barrel first with steel wool, or better yet, have someone who owns an air-blast-gun bead-blast it for you to a matte finish.

Paint the stock and fore end, or sand lightly and refinish with Minwax stain.

Polish the action with steel wool to a gray satin if you want to, and leave it in the white. Or bead blast it to matte gray.

Load it with 2 3/4" Federal 00 Buckshot, with the Flite-Control wad.

I love these old guns!

-ET

CBennett
01-30-2010, 19:29
for hunting yes for anything else NO.

krush777
01-30-2010, 20:19
Planning to get one for my daughter also. I figured it would be good "first gun" for her to shoot with.

Alaskapopo
02-03-2010, 02:14
The single shot works fine. The need for fast 2nd shots is somewhat over-rated, and the single shot, when you learn to use it, can maintain a pretty good rate of fire. Is it as good as a more sophisticated gun? No, but it will work for most situations.

Overrated. Hardly. Single shots should be used for hunting non dangerous game only.
pat

GIockGuy24
02-03-2010, 02:24
I carry a light weight single shot 12 gauge when I go camping. I shortened the barrel to 18 inches and shortened and lightened the buttstock. Can load and reload pretty fast with practice. I chose a single shot for camping because it's much lighter weight than other actions. I carry 2 3/4 inch slugs for it. I wouldn't get too cheap of a single shot though.

vafish
02-03-2010, 09:12
If a single shot is all you got they will work just fine for self defense, learn how to operate it like Clint Smith shows and you will probably do fine.

But, if you are going to buy a single shot shotgun for $100 for another $50 or so you can get a used pump action Mossberg 500 or Maverick 88. There also are a lot of older Stevens, Savage, and store brand pump shotguns out there for $100-$150. I've bought 2 Mossberg 500's for less than $87 each at auctions.

If you are going to chop the barrel anyways on the single shot you can do the same thing on the pump gun.

David Armstrong
02-03-2010, 12:27
Overrated. Hardly. Single shots should be used for hunting non dangerous game only.
pat

Hard to argue with something that has a history of success that goes back over a hundred years. Hard to argue with Clint Smith, for that matter! However, it is good to recognize one's own limitations, even if they don't apply to others. :rofl:

Alaskapopo
02-03-2010, 12:38
Hard to argue with something that has a history of success that goes back over a hundred years. Hard to argue with Clint Smith, for that matter! However, it is good to recognize one's own limitations, even if they don't apply to others. :rofl:

Clint is a great trainer. But he is a man and he has been wrong before. For instance he recommends ball ammo for defense with 1911's. He still shoots weaver when the modern Isosceles Stance has been shown superior. I have no problem arguing with Clint after all he is just a man not a god. If you have two charging opponents you can effectively engage them with a pump or semi auto. Not so with a single barrel.
Pat

David Armstrong
02-03-2010, 13:00
Ummm, you might want to find out about Clint before you make claims for him. He shoots ball because for him that works across a wide set of his particular needs. He recommends HP for most folks. And he shoots Weaver because he has years of practice with it. He does not object to Modern Iso at all.
But again, Clint doesn't have to be a god, he has shown how the single shot shotgun can be quite effective in the role of a defensive firearm, which was the issue. Again, if you can't do it, that is fine, but try not to assume that what is problematic for you is also a problem for others, particularly when there is such a history of something working fine.

Alaskapopo
02-03-2010, 13:03
Ummm, you might want to find out about Clint before you make claims for him. He shoots ball because for him that works across a wide set of his particular needs. He recommends HP for most folks. And he shoots Weaver because he has years of practice with it. He does not object to Modern Iso at all.
But again, Clint doesn't have to be a god, he has shown how the single shot shotgun can be quite effective in the role of a defensive firearm, which was the issue. Again, if you can't do it, that is fine, but try not to assume that what is problematic for you is also a problem for others, particularly when there is such a history of something working fine.

I know why he recommends ball but I don't agree with him. How has he shown the single shot can be used effectively. Has he used one in self defense? I doubt it.
Pat

TxGun
02-03-2010, 13:40
I believe Clint Smith's point is you have to use what you've got and if all you've got is a single-barrelled shotgun, or a double, it is possible to be very effective with same. Is either optimum? Of course not. Are both viable...yes, if you practice and are comfortable with the weapon. Smith can fire, load, and fire a single-shot in about 3-4 second cycles, maybe faster, and is extremely accurate. I don't know if he has used one in an actual HD/SD situation, probably not. But then he may not have used a pump gun in that situation either. But many, many people over the years have used both and are still around to tell their stories. Of course, a pump or semi is faster for follow-up shots and that extra margin for error (misses) always makes them much more viable as defence guns. He certainly wouldn't argue that, and neither would anyone else. OTOH, the reality is a lot of people are going to get so flustered that they woun't be particularly adept with any sort of weapon. A single or double in the hands of someone well-versed in it's use is not going to be an adversary to take lightly. My guess is a very high % of the time that 1st shot settles the matter, whatever the matter happens to be. What does the NRA say? About 95% of the time? Something like that. If a 2nd shot is needed and comes 3-5 seconds later, the % goes up again. In any case, no one is saying a single is better, or even close to as good as other options, let's keep that straight. But anyone who might dismiss them out of hand is not taking a thoughtful position either.

David Armstrong
02-03-2010, 15:10
I know why he recommends ball but I don't agree with him.
Having a different opinion is a bit different than saying someone is wrong, IMO.
Has he used one in self defense? I doubt it.
Ummm, have you? And what does that matter? I've never used a Glock 22 in self defense. Does that mean I shouldn't point out that it can be a good choice for self defense? And again, remember that it is not just Clint. There is a long history of success behind single and double guns across a wide selection of time and events. I've encountered a number of events where a single or double gun was used quite successfully to repel BGs.

David Armstrong
02-03-2010, 15:13
In any case, no one is saying a single is better, or even close to as good as other options, let's keep that straight. But anyone who might dismiss them out of hand is not taking a thoughtful position either.
Exactly. A SA revolver may not be as good as a hi-cap autoloader, but it is still an effective and useful defensive firearm. The single or double shotgun is much the same. I've seen both used to good effect. Interestingly, I've never seen anyone lose a SD fight because of "only" having a single-shot 12 gauge.

TxGun
02-03-2010, 17:15
On a related topic, one of the coolest shotguns I have is a NEF Pardner 12 ga. single that I cut back to 18 1/2" and put a Choate Survivor buttstock and forearm on. I paid $100 OTD for the almost-new shotgun and the Survivor stocks were $59 shipped from Midway. 33" OAL, all legal, and just a neat little SG. I've got about 20 pump guns of various makes and configs, but right now this little single is the apple of my eye. I see it mainly as a truck/travel/camping gun.

Alaskapopo
02-03-2010, 21:22
I believe Clint Smith's point is you have to use what you've got and if all you've got is a single-barrelled shotgun, or a double, it is possible to be very effective with same. Is either optimum? Of course not. Are both viable...yes, if you practice and are comfortable with the weapon. Smith can fire, load, and fire a single-shot in about 3-4 second cycles, maybe faster, and is extremely accurate. I don't know if he has used one in an actual HD/SD situation, probably not. But then he may not have used a pump gun in that situation either. But many, many people over the years have used both and are still around to tell their stories. Of course, a pump or semi is faster for follow-up shots and that extra margin for error (misses) always makes them much more viable as defence guns. He certainly wouldn't argue that, and neither would anyone else. OTOH, the reality is a lot of people are going to get so flustered that they woun't be particularly adept with any sort of weapon. A single or double in the hands of someone well-versed in it's use is not going to be an adversary to take lightly. My guess is a very high % of the time that 1st shot settles the matter, whatever the matter happens to be. What does the NRA say? About 95% of the time? Something like that. If a 2nd shot is needed and comes 3-5 seconds later, the % goes up again. In any case, no one is saying a single is better, or even close to as good as other options, let's keep that straight. But anyone who might dismiss them out of hand is not taking a thoughtful position either.

Thanks for your post. Personally I don't see split times in the 3 to 4 second range as acceptable for home defense. It may work just fine if you just have one attacker and you hit him with the first round and it puts him down. But if something goes wrong your FD up.
Pat

Alaskapopo
02-03-2010, 21:24
Having a different opinion is a bit different than saying someone is wrong, IMO.

Ummm, have you? And what does that matter? I've never used a Glock 22 in self defense. Does that mean I shouldn't point out that it can be a good choice for self defense? And again, remember that it is not just Clint. There is a long history of success behind single and double guns across a wide selection of time and events. I've encountered a number of events where a single or double gun was used quite successfully to repel BGs.

The point being a single and a double make a poor choice as a self defense firearm compared to other choices. Yes they may work. So could a musket or a compound bow. But they are not good choices. By the way I would not carry a Glock 22 unless I had to. Glocks work best in 9mm.
Pat

vafish
02-04-2010, 06:23
Exactly. A SA revolver may not be as good as a hi-cap autoloader, but it is still an effective and useful defensive firearm. The single or double shotgun is much the same. I've seen both used to good effect. Interestingly, I've never seen anyone lose a SD fight because of "only" having a single-shot 12 gauge.

I think the reason for that is that most criminals are cowards. They prey on the weak and are looking for an easy buck. They don't have the drive of a squad of combat hardened Marines going after an Al Queda terrorist.

Even if the BG's are attacking you in a group of 4 or 5 in a home invasion you take down the 1st one with a 12 ga load of buckshot and the others lose their will to fight pretty quickly, self preservation takes over and they decide to leave.

David Armstrong
02-05-2010, 10:41
The point being a single and a double make a poor choice as a self defense firearm compared to other choices.
Sure, and a pump shotgun makes a poor choice as as self defense firearm compared to other choices. But that wasn't the issue. The issue is if the gun is a good choice for the task, not if something is a better choice. A single or double shotgun is a good choice, and it has been shown to be a good choice over and over throughout the years. If you can come up with a few instances of people losing a SD situation because they only had a single or double gun I'd be glad to look at them.
By the way I would not carry a Glock 22 unless I had to. Glocks work best in 9mm.
Again, a nice opinion, but the idea of what is "best" is very much an opinon and can be based on many different factors. What is "best" in one situation may not be "best" in a different situation.

Alaskapopo
02-05-2010, 12:39
Sure, and a pump shotgun makes a poor choice as as self defense firearm compared to other choices. But that wasn't the issue. The issue is if the gun is a good choice for the task, not if something is a better choice. A single or double shotgun is a good choice, and it has been shown to be a good choice over and over throughout the years. If you can come up with a few instances of people losing a SD situation because they only had a single or double gun I'd be glad to look at them.

Again, a nice opinion, but the idea of what is "best" is very much an opinon and can be based on many different factors. What is "best" in one situation may not be "best" in a different situation.

Glock 22's have a history of documented problems to date and that is not just my opinion. Also a single shot or a double shotgun is a poor choice for self defense. Any weapon that takes you 3 to 4 seconds before you can fire another shot (that is if you are very good with it) is a poor choice. There have been cops who have been killed while reloading. So it should not be too hard for you to come up with shootings where a few shots did not suffice.
Pat

jaybirdjtt
02-05-2010, 12:43
I have one that my daughter gave me, 18 1/2" bbl and all that. It is amazing how fast I can reload and get off multiple shots, never having it leave my shoulder and reloading either from shells held in my left hand or pulled directly from the cartridge holder on the stock. It would surprise the heck out of a BG when I get the 2nd shot and subsequent shots off in 2 seconds or less but he would probably be runnning the other way!

It is light and does kick. However, it doesn't jam like the 870 does occasionally.

jaybirdjtt
02-05-2010, 12:50
FYI.....I've had my wife time me. Three shots in under 6 seconds but then, I wasn't being threatened so no adrenalin to screw up the coordination. Holding two shells, 2 3/4" 00 buck in the fingers of the left hand. Kicks like a mule! Sleeps under the bed.....the gun that is.

TxGun
02-05-2010, 14:51
Remember I said "Smith can fire, load, and fire a single-shot in about 3-4 second cycles, maybe faster, and is extremely accurate. That's two shots in 1.5-2 seconds, maybe faster, with accuracy. I've seen the video, but my recollection is probably not exact. Point is, a cool customer with a single shot, who is familiar with his weapon will be a formidible adversary and will beat hell out out of someone not so cool and not so practiced who is using a pump or semi. Now, does that, in any way, say a single is "better" for HD/SD...OF COURSE IT DOESN'T. But there is a point to be made that singles and doubles have solved countless "problems" over the years and will continue to do so. If it's what you've got, and you're good with it...you are certainly far from helpless. I suspect the large majority of home invasions are by a single perpetrator and the large majority are also settled with no, or one shot(s). But that's just a guess. Of course, if you are running with the bad boys, or live in certain areas, the equation obviously changes. So again, is a single always fully adequate and should it consistently be your 1st (or 2nd) choice? OF COURSE NOT! Would I personally choose one...no, but then I have a lot of other choices. However, for most "situations", I wouldn't feel so handicapped with a single that I'd hesitate to address the problem.

Alaskapopo
02-05-2010, 15:07
Remember I said "Smith can fire, load, and fire a single-shot in about 3-4 second cycles, maybe faster, and is extremely accurate. [I]That's two shots in 1.5-2 seconds, maybe faster, with accuracy.
That does not compute. loading and firing 1 shot in three to four seconds is not 2 shots in 2 seconds. (slow by the way) Imagine this. Two bad guys less than 7 yards away. Can you hit both with a single shot before they get to you. The answer is no. It takes the average human 1.5 seconds to close 7 yards. With the double you could handle that situation if you don't miss. Sure I would use a single or a double barrel shotgun if someone was attacking me and it was all I had. But given the opportunity to arm myself with something other than an obsolete weapon form the 1800's I will do so. Hell if I had to I would grab one of the decorative swords I have on my wall. They will still cut and stab as good as they did hundreds of years ago. But are they a good home defense weapon choice. NO.
Pat

TxGun
02-05-2010, 15:32
"Fire...load...and fire" in 3-4 seconds is what I said I recall him doing in both the above post and in my original post. I think you would attempt to address most "problems"...be it with a single, a double, a pump gun, or a semi, with that first round chambered. And particularly with a single or double that is intended for HD use.

But hey...that's Clint Smith. That ain't just anybody. So you'd better make that 1st shot count...or use something else if you've got it.

I'll also throw this out there...if you don't make that 1st shot count...and your adversary is determined...you'll likely be in serious trouble no matter what type of shotgun you have in hand. We're primarily talking close quarters here...the dynamics of a homeowner faced with an intruder. Time is going to be very tight if the intruder happens to be that one guy who, instead of running, comes for you. Or if there is more than one, of course. In either of those cases (an initial miss or multiple assailants) a repeater obviously gives you much better odds of winning the encounter. That's not reasonably arguable.

Alaskapopo
02-05-2010, 15:54
"Fire...load...and fire" in 3-4 seconds is what I said I recall him doing in both the above post and in my original post. I think you would attempt to address most "problems"...be it with a single, a double, a pump gun, or a semi, with that first round chambered. And particularly with a single or double that is intended for HD use.

But hey...that's Clint Smith. That ain't just anybody. So you'd better make that 1st shot count...or use something else if you've got it.

I'll also throw this out there...if you don't make that 1st shot count...and your adversary is determined...you'll likely be in serious trouble no matter what type of shotgun you have in hand. We're primarily talking close quarters here...the dynamics of a homeowner faced with an intruder. Time is going to be very tight if the intruder happens to be that one guy who, instead of running, comes for you. Or if there is more than one, of course.

You should make every shot count. But with a modern semi auto or a pump shotgun. If you miss with the first shot the second shot is only .20 seconds away. You have more room to make mistakes and we all have the potential to make mistakes under high stress with lead flying our way. With my Benelli I dumped these 7 targets from 7 to 12 yards in 5.21 seconds. That is 7 targets in about the same time it would have taken Clint to do 2 targets with a Single. A single barrel shotgun may well work in a situation with just one attacker or threat. But if your faced with multiple opponents your screwed.
http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/videos/?action=view&current=PatShotgun.flv
Pat

TxGun
02-05-2010, 16:00
You're saying a semi (or a pump) is a much better defense gun than a single (or a double). I most certainly agree. I'm sure Clint Smith agrees too.

Alaskapopo
02-05-2010, 16:04
You're saying a semi (or a pump) is a much better defense gun than a single (or a double). I most certainly agree. I'm sure Clint Smith agrees too.

I am saying more than that. I am saying that in this day and time considering a single barrel shotgun to defend ones life with or even a double is extremely foolish. Can it be done sure. But is it a wise choice. Heck no. Like I said in a pinch you could use bow and arrow for defense against an intruder. But is it a good choice no.
I am not saying you have to have the best tactical shotgun or carbine for home defense. But it should at least be able to fire more than 5 rounds without reloading. I am saying a single shot or a double barrel is unacceptable for home defense. This is my opinion.
Pat

David Armstrong
02-06-2010, 14:41
Glock 22's have a history of documented problems to date and that is not just my opinion.
Actually they have a documented history of problems that are rather rare if one follows the factory instructions. Which is why so many LE organizations still use them on a regular basis.
Also a single shot or a double shotgun is a poor choice for self defense.
Again, a nice opinion, Pat, but one that is contradicted by the facts. In fact, both are still used today for self defense with pretty good success. As I said, if you can come up with a few instances of people losing a SD situation because they only had a single or double shotgun I'd be glad to look at them.

That is 7 targets in about the same time it would have taken Clint to do 2 targets with a Single.
Folks are talking a TR video out and trying to make it something it isn't. Clint is doing a demo there, not shooting for speed. It's been a while since I was there, but IIRC he did 3 targets in under 5 seconds with a single. So the real question is not one of how many rounds one CAN get off in a time frame, it is how many does one NEED.

vafish
02-06-2010, 20:13
But it should at least be able to fire more than 5 rounds without reloading. I am saying a single shot or a double barrel is unacceptable for home defense. This is my opinion.
Pat

So in this day and age what it your recommendation for someone who is unemployed or under employed?

If a person has less than $100 to spend on a home defense gun and the options are a Lorcin .25 auto (that can fire your minimum of 5 shots) or a H+R single shot 12 ga which is a better choice?

Some folks don't have the option of a new pump action shotgun.

Alaskapopo
02-06-2010, 20:44
So in this day and age what it your recommendation for someone who is unemployed or under employed?

If a person has less than $100 to spend on a home defense gun and the options are a Lorcin .25 auto (that can fire your minimum of 5 shots) or a H+R single shot 12 ga which is a better choice?

Some folks don't have the option of a new pump action shotgun.

Seems you can get a cheap pump for 150 to 200. I don't see much of a difference in prices that low.
Pat

Southpaw69
02-07-2010, 00:21
"I don't need a $1000 shotgun, i need to know how to run the gun i got."

There should be no debate on what is better between a single shot vs. a pump etc... It's obvious. He's just saying that you need to train with what you have(can afford) so you can be effective if the time comes you need it.