Wierd Primer Hole in Speer .45acp? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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gforester
01-23-2010, 16:34
The last couple weeks I have been running into a problem with some of my Speer .45 cases. It appears that they use a smaller primer than the standard large pistol size. Has anyone run into this before? If so do you know what size primer is needed to reload these cases?

Brass Nazi
01-23-2010, 16:48
You have ACP brass correct? GAP brass has a smaller primer.

Wash-ar15
01-23-2010, 16:57
do you have NT stuff? they use a small primer

Brass Nazi
01-23-2010, 17:00
do you have NT stuff? they use a small primer

Yep I was trying to think of that name. NT had a bastard sized primer. If that is what you have throw them in the trash.

njl
01-23-2010, 17:15
Yep I was trying to think of that name. NT had a bastard sized primer. If that is what you have throw them in the trash.

I thought NT just used small pistol primers.

gasboffer
01-23-2010, 20:04
Save em. They'll get more common. I have a bucket about half full. Just use small pistol primers.

PCJim
01-23-2010, 21:52
If NT brass, yes they can be reloaded with small pistol primers. I have read (haven't reloaded them yet, just saving for a larger group) that you can use your standard recipes but expect appx. 30fps less velocity due to the smaller primer.

dudel
01-24-2010, 04:48
I thought NT just used small pistol primers.

They do. Just save up the NT brass till you have enough to make it worth reloading a batch of them.

I suspect they will become more popular. One less primer size to stock up on. If I could find a large batch of 45ACP NT at a reasonable price, I'd consider moving to it.

HarveyatPC
01-24-2010, 05:18
I just cut them down to GAP height. They work fine, some with 6 plus reloadings. :supergrin:

Jaybo510
01-24-2010, 14:33
I have about a 1,000 Federal 45 ACP NT myself. I was just about to post asking anyone for load info for this case with a 200gr copper platted head. I have read on a few forums that the NT just stands for "Non Toxic", a round designed for indoor shooting. Using a safe non toxic primer, but can be reloaded with a standard small pistol primer. There was some concern about pressure because the flash hole was bigger in the NT cases. So they said to use minimum load info and work up. Some people said they got better results with these cases than standard ones. Any additional info on these would be great.

VN350X10
01-24-2010, 23:50
I'm working on loads for the "NT" cases, but for a different reason.
The bench rest types use a small primer to minimise the initial pressure that can cause inconsistancies in velocity & therefore accuracy.
I'm running testing over a chronograph to see if a small primer in a .45 might yield better accuracy, via more consistant velocities. Not real important for most shooting, but might help that last little bit for bullseye work. For a real good shooter.(leaves ME out !)
But it's an interesting velocity study anyhow.
As a general rule, a .45 ACP doesn't have enough powder capacity to need a large primer. It was a military expediency in time of war, the base of a .30-06 brass case is the same size as a .45ACP case. Less tooling, less inventory.
Think of this, a .40S&W case uses a small primer, but a 10MM uses a large. And the very first .40's used large primers. A 10MM could get away with a small primer easily. A large isn't really needed until you get to the 20 gr+ level.
Just a few passing thoughts.

uncle albert

GIockGuy24
01-25-2010, 05:14
I'm working on loads for the "NT" cases, but for a different reason.
The bench rest types use a small primer to minimise the initial pressure that can cause inconsistancies in velocity & therefore accuracy.
I'm running testing over a chronograph to see if a small primer in a .45 might yield better accuracy, via more consistant velocities. Not real important for most shooting, but might help that last little bit for bullseye work. For a real good shooter.(leaves ME out !)
But it's an interesting velocity study anyhow.
As a general rule, a .45 ACP doesn't have enough powder capacity to need a large primer. It was a military expediency in time of war, the base of a .30-06 brass case is the same size as a .45ACP case. Less tooling, less inventory.
Think of this, a .40S&W case uses a small primer, but a 10MM uses a large. And the very first .40's used large primers. A 10MM could get away with a small primer easily. A large isn't really needed until you get to the 20 gr+ level.
Just a few passing thoughts.

uncle albert

The NT primers, both small and the few large ones, are milder than standard primers. The cases usually have oversized or enlarged flash holes compared to standard cases. I'm not sure how that figures into the mix, if standard primers will be hotter than usual or not in those cases.

Jim Watson
01-25-2010, 07:41
Actually, the Dinol mix in the NT primer is hotter than styphnate by some measures.
The large flashhole in first generation large primer Winclean is to vent the rapid pressure rise into the case. I figure they concluded that a small primer held enough of the (more expensive) priming mix and gave less primer pocket pressure, too. Note that Federal NT primers are crimped like military because of that primer pocket pressure.

You see all sorts of things in primers. Frankford Arsenal made .45 ACP with a dedicated .204" primer to prevent swapping rifle and pistol primers in a facility loading both. Early .357 Magnum had large primers before magnum pistol primers came out.

VN350X10
01-25-2010, 08:41
Good point Jim, I'd forgotten about the large primer .357 mags !

uncle albert

coachg
01-25-2010, 09:04
I popped a primer when one of these cases snuck into my batch of standard cases. Now I look for them to make sure. I was throwing them away, but I think it might be a good idea as stated, to save and batch them.

Firecop203
01-25-2010, 11:26
I just cut them down to GAP height. They work fine, some with 6 plus reloadings. :supergrin:

Do NOT do this. GAP brass is built differently than any other .45 brass. It has more reinforcement near the bottom to support the higher pressures created by the GAP loadings. The Speer reloading manual specifically warns against trimming 45 brass to GAP length for this reason.