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springer03
01-24-2010, 20:51
Need advice. I bought a bushmaster (at the height of the frenzy) before I thought to do research unfortunately. After reading all of the information on this site and others I decided to upgrade the rifle, (BCM BCG, Mil-spec receiver extension, H buffer, Taller front site post, DD omega rail, Ergo grip, Toy BUIS and just got my eotech 512).I've been contemplating selling the original BM upper and buying a BCM upper mainly just for the 1/7 twist. It is only used for range and HD no courses or anything. I know with the upgrades I should be GTG reliability wise. Question is would it be worth the hassle trying to sell the BM upper, just to get the 1/7 twist (to be able to shoot 75gr. TAP) or should I just get the 60gr. TAP for Hd and not worry about it?

USMC03
01-24-2010, 21:02
Read my response in this thread in reference to my experiences with Bushmaster:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1164191&page=3



And here in reference to BCM:


http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1169373




Hope this helps

springer03
01-24-2010, 21:15
Yes I have read your posts and every other on this site (and others) which is why I upgraded parts to begin with. I just wish I would have read them before buying My BM (would have saved money in the long run) and I thank you for your knowledge and experience. So I'm going to assume you would suggest the switch?

USMC03
01-24-2010, 21:20
springer,



If you read all my posts in the first link posted above, it's easy to see why I recommend Colt, LMT, BCM, etc.

If you decide to sell your Bushmaster upper, I would consider a 16" barrel with a mid-lenght gas system:



http://www.03designgroup.com/photo/midlengths-for-leo/icon-midlengths-for-leo.jpg
03designgroup | Advantages of Mid-Length Carbines for Law Enforcement Officers http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/midlengths-for-leo)

http://www.03designgroup.com/photo/carbine-vs-midlength/icon-carbine-vs-midlength.jpg
03designgroup | Carbine vs. Mid-Length Gas System on a 16" Barrel http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/carbine-vs-mid-length-gas-system)





Hope this helps.

springer03
01-24-2010, 21:45
Wow your quick! Actually I would defiantly have considered the mid length if I did not already have the DD Omega 7 (not willing to take a hit on that too). Like I said I could kick myself for not researching prior to purchase. On the other hand with how far away I have to drive to go shoot rifles I'm not going to be shooting tons through it so the extra force of the carbine length should not be to much of an issue. I have learned so much from your (and other posts) in the past. I do really appreciate everybody sharing their knowledge and first hand experience. Thanks for your replies.

bug
01-24-2010, 22:06
Read my response in this thread in reference to my experiences with Bushmaster:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1164191&page=3



And here in reference to BCM:


http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1169373




Hope this helps

Thanks for you help. You helped me decide I am saving right now for a 1911
but I have had the funds to finish my ar for a little bit what is your opinion of this choice?
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-16%20bfh%20dd%20omegax%209.htm

this for sights (Mag pul backup irons)
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/EOTech-552-p/eotech%20552.htm

mounted on Pre cerebrus capitol management, bushmaster lower with magpul stock, Grip, and stag parts kit...

jobob
01-25-2010, 01:40
For your uses I would stay with what you have. The 1:9 twist is not ideal and I don't know why BM seems to be stuck on it (like on the ACR), but it works fine if you aren't going to shoot any bullets over 70 gr. Some 1:9 rifles even shoot 75s well. I've used my 20" BM to hit the long range plates (500 and 700+ yards) at the MGM Ironman match w/69gr. SMKs the last 3 years.

With the upgrades you've done I don't really think changing uppers will buy you anything. Unless you just want to, and then you certainly need no one's permission to do so.

BTW, I have a BCM upper and it's a great rifle. I also have a few BMs that all work fine and don't feel the need to exchange any of them for something better. But with BM's recent price increases and what they've done to the ACR I don't believe that I'll be buying any more of their products in the future.

RMTactical
01-25-2010, 03:14
Can't go wrong with BCM. I love their stuff.

faawrenchbndr
01-25-2010, 08:36
BCM is good stuff,...I just wish they would do away with the white logo.

KalashniKEV
01-25-2010, 09:00
BCM is good stuff,...I just wish they would do away with the white logo.

Do you know if the logo appears on their F/A carrier, or is that a watermark on the photos???

I was going to order one soon, but I can't do logos.

faawrenchbndr
01-25-2010, 09:41
I do not own any BCM major componets.
From what I understand that is a laser etched marking.

USMC03
01-25-2010, 10:25
Wow your quick! Actually I would defiantly have considered the mid length if I did not already have the DD Omega 7 (not willing to take a hit on that too). Like I said I could kick myself for not researching prior to purchase. On the other hand with how far away I have to drive to go shoot rifles I'm not going to be shooting tons through it so the extra force of the carbine length should not be to much of an issue. I have learned so much from your (and other posts) in the past. I do really appreciate everybody sharing their knowledge and first hand experience. Thanks for your replies.


I am constantly selling, trading, and using those funds to upgrade to items that I want.

If you decide to keep the Bushmaster I would recommend the following upgrades to help the carbine perform better.


All 1/9" twist barrels shoot up to 69 grain bullets well. Some 1/9" twist barrels will shoot 75 grain bullets well while other 1/9" twist barrels will not shoot 75 grain bullets well at all.

If you plan on shooting 75 grain bullets through your Bushmaster you may want to take the ammo you plan on using out to the range and see if your gun will shoot well with 75's or not.

1) If the carbine has a collapsable stock and a carbine length gas system purchase a "H2" carbine buffer. The Bushmaster comes stock with a lightweight standard carbine buffer. The H2 (Heavy 2) carbine buffer is the correct buffer for the carbine gas system w/ collapsable stock.

2) Remove the bolt carrier group from the gun and inspect the staking on the carrier key. The metal from the carrier key should be mashed into the 2 screws that hold it onto the bolt. If the carrier key is no properly staked, send it back to Bushmaster and tell them to re-stake it.

3) Get an extractor upgrade kit. Bushmaster ships all of it's guns with a 4 coil extractor spring and blue insert. Carbine gas systems are suppose to use a 5 coil extractor spring, the stiffer BLACK insert, and a black rubber "o" ring to aid in extracton. Change this out about every 5,000 rounds. The only company that I know of that sells the is Bravo Company USA. There may be others, but that is the only company I'm aware of.

4) If using iron sights and a flat top, get a tall front sight post from Bushmaster, PK Firearms, or several other vendors. Bushmaster doesn't use the proper "F" marked front sight base, and you'll end up having excessive elevation. The tall front sight post is a fix for this problem.


Hope this helps


Thanks for you help. You helped me decide I am saving right now for a 1911
but I have had the funds to finish my ar for a little bit what is your opinion of this choice?
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-16%20bfh%20dd%20omegax%209.htm

this for sights (Mag pul backup irons)
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/EOTech-552-p/eotech%20552.htm

mounted on Pre cerebrus capitol management, bushmaster lower with magpul stock, Grip, and stag parts kit...



Sounds good on the upper. I have the same upper (with a LaRue 9.0) that went through Pat Rogers' and a LMS Defense carbine course (and other training and matches) this year.

I would not recommend the EO Tech. I have seen far too many problems both at work and in training classes with them over the years. Battery connections are one of the many problems. As the gun recoils the batterys move back and forth like a piston. There are several reported problems with EO Tech. As I recall the EO Tech 553 was approved by US SOCOM and they later sent them all back.

My recommendation would be Aimpoint. I've been running Aimpoints since the late 90's and in all those years I only had one issue (the screw piece that held the lense in place on a ML2 came loose, sight was still functional but I had to send it back to the factory so it could be tightened and have adheisive applied .... but that optic had see several thousand rounds.


I currently have (13) Aimpoint Micro T1's, (1) Aimpiont Comp M4, and (1) Aimpoint Comp M4S. The Micro T1 is less than half the weight of the Comp M4 / M4S with the mount.

Weight including LaRue tall mounts:

Micro T1 is 6.4oz
Comp M4 is 12.8oz



Do you know if the logo appears on their F/A carrier, or is that a watermark on the photos???

I was going to order one soon, but I can't do logos.

BCM uppers and bolt carrier groups are both laser etched.

Years ago I ordered a LMT bolt carrier and got a Stag Arms bolt carrier from a dealer.

KalashniKEV
01-25-2010, 11:16
BCM uppers and bolt carrier groups are both laser etched.


Damn!

Oh well... I've got an old Colt SP1 BCG now, was thinking of upgrading to a heavier F/A carrier. I guess I'll just stick.

Or the Denny's Supercarrier or whatever has a good rep.

I'll have to think about it.

RMTactical
01-25-2010, 13:21
BCM is good stuff,...I just wish they would do away with the white logo.

Why? :dunno:

bug
01-25-2010, 15:13
Sounds good on the upper. I have the same upper (with a LaRue 9.0) that went through Pat Rogers' and a LMS Defense carbine course (and other training and matches) this year.

I would not recommend the EO Tech. I have seen far too many problems both at work and in training classes with them over the years. Battery connections are one of the many problems. As the gun recoils the batterys move back and forth like a piston. There are several reported problems with EO Tech. As I recall the EO Tech 553 was approved by US SOCOM and they later sent them all back.

My recommendation would be Aimpoint. I've been running Aimpoints since the late 90's and in all those years I only had one issue (the screw piece that held the lense in place on a ML2 came loose, sight was still functional but I had to send it back to the factory so it could be tightened and have adheisive applied .... but that optic had see several thousand rounds.


I currently have (13) Aimpoint Micro T1's, (1) Aimpiont Comp M4, and (1) Aimpoint Comp M4S. The Micro T1 is less than half the weight of the Comp M4 / M4S with the mount.

Weight including LaRue tall mounts:

Micro T1 is 6.4oz
Comp M4 is 12.8oz


I had looked at the m4s( I like the low bat mount) because I liked the available 3X magnifier But I thought only LEO and military could get the m4?
and will it work with the magpul irons i already have??
Either way thanks for your help
If they are available to civys I would definitely get that over Eo tech

USMC03
01-25-2010, 15:20
I don't know if the MBUS will work in conjunction with the 3x magnifier or not.

The M4S and M4 is avalible to civilians. If using a 3x magnifier, I would suggest getting the M4, you can get the 3x magnifier closer to the M4. The closer you can get the 3x magnifier to the Aimpoint the better the sight picture looks.


I know you are leaning toward the M4S, but the T1 is 1/3 of a pound lighter and $150 cheaper. Just as reliable, almost the same features, etc.


http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Categories.bok?category=Optic+and+Mount+Combos%3AAimpoint

bug
01-25-2010, 16:20
I don't know if the MBUS will work in conjunction with the 3x magnifier or not.

The M4S and M4 is avalible to civilians. If using a 3x magnifier, I would suggest getting the M4, you can get the 3x magnifier closer to the M4. The closer you can get the 3x magnifier to the Aimpoint the better the sight picture looks.


I know you are leaning toward the M4S, but the T1 is 1/3 of a pound lighter and $150 cheaper. Just as reliable, almost the same features, etc.


http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Categories.bok?category=Optic+and+Mount+Combos%3AAimpoint

I have considered it but I am not sure I could get it high enough off the rifle to get clear view ( I am 6ft 8in) and i have actually looked through A M4 on a rifle very similar to what my set up will be and it was perfect.

Also it did not look like they would work with 3X mag but that will not be on all the time and it will be bought at a later date the M4 will put me in the poor house for a while:crying:

snoczp
01-25-2010, 18:24
USMC03,
I LOVE reading your stuff (here and other sites). Thanks for taking the time.

(You're costing me more money though.) :)

BCM is top notch stuff. Jeff just makes me want a mid-length BCM upper to go along with my carbine length upper.

USMC03
01-25-2010, 18:40
bug,


Just FYI, the Micro T1 and M4 / M4S are the same height (ie. both optics mounted in a LaRue tall mount). If you can't see through the T1, you won't be able to see through the Comp M4 / M4S.


snoczp,


Thanks!

furioso2112
01-25-2010, 19:32
The main things that keep me away from Aimpoint is the heighth, bigger dot (than EoTech), and the tube compared to EoTech's hooded glass. I prefer the EoTech design on all these factors. I wonder if the XPS, with its sideways smaller battery, will solve the battery disconnect issue. For the record, I have used the 2xAA EoTech on a carbine with a standard buffer, and on a Sig556 and never had a problem with either, shooting all good-quality full power ammo - 1,000s of rounds of Prvi 62 and 75 (77?), Federal XM193, and I forget what else, but no Wolf or PMC or anything.

furioso2112
01-25-2010, 19:44
I also bought a BM 1x9 (ORC)...I have still not shot it. I bought it for $700 NIB, Aug. '08, from Cabela's (had a $100 coupon and sale pricing). I have put iron sights, a grip I prefer, and BCM's extractor upgrade on it, though. Soon after I bought it, I 'built' an Essential Arms lower and a M&A parts 1x7" CL upper, and put a bunch of upgraded parts on that, so I started shooting it while the Bushy sat in the safe. Part of that was because I took a long time to decide on the proper product to treat the non-finished part of the barrel where I took off the gas block when I installed a YHM flip-up front sight. I took care of that late Decemeber '09, and have not been to the range yet with it. Part of THAT is because I also bought a BCM SS410 mid-length upper with a DD Lite 12" rail in December '09. The Bushy might just remain in the safe as an 'investment gun', or might be what I put at one of my SHTF-and-I-can't-get-to-my-guns-at-home off-site storage facilities (family residences). The EA lower build is now my back-up, BCM is the go-to 5.56 rifle of choice.

My budget is limited for off-site storage. That's why I don't mind trying different products or hearing that somethig is better, and never feel bad about a purchase. Of course it makes sense to get some rounds through any gun one is going to count on to any degree, but between selling at a loss (likely in today's market) and having SOMETHING at another location, until I fill all the places I can think of to put guns, and get them stocked with whatever I end up liking best for that purpose, I'll stick to my idea of spread 'em out instead of sell ideology.

bug
01-25-2010, 19:58
bug,


Just FYI, the Micro T1 and M4 / M4S are the same height (ie. both optics mounted in a LaRue tall mount). If you can't see through the T1, you won't be able to see through the Comp M4 / M4S.


snoczp,


Thanks!

Awesome well I can see through the m4 so i will have to check out t1 I just have to find someone that has one who will let me shoot there rifle.

I like to try before I buy when it costs 600 bucks :wow:

You are the first person I have found on here who could explain the difference between different items and not just say "because its better ok"

thanks for your help and research/time. I will do a bit more research be for I buy.

MySiK26
01-25-2010, 21:40
Thanks '03! That really helped me to understand the gas systems in conjunction with barrel lengths.

snappydad
01-25-2010, 22:58
Do you know if the logo appears on their F/A carrier, or is that a watermark on the photos???

I was going to order one soon, but I can't do logos.

One of mine has the logo and the other two do not. Might want to e-mail or call them.

KalashniKEV
01-26-2010, 09:06
One of mine has the logo and the other two do not. Might want to e-mail or call them.

Good info! Will definitely call!!!

*fingers crossed*

KalashniKEV
01-26-2010, 10:26
You are the first person I have found on here who could explain the difference between different items and not just say "because its better ok"

IMO the T1 excels on weapons other than the AR, b/c of the required high sight plane.

For Co-Witness on an AK, MP-5, various shotguns, etc. it makes for a nice, compact package (the whole point is compactness!).

That is lost once you put it in the skyscraper mount. For all that aluminum you have looking back at you, you could have a usable portion of the optic that can and will speed acquisition.

Yes, we all "snap" into good shooting positions on the range, and the dot is right there... but what I think is not realized is the split second your eye picks up the dot as you move into position.

Cobra6
01-27-2010, 22:41
Read my response in this thread in reference to my experiences with Bushmaster:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1164191&page=3


And here in reference to BCM:


http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1169373


Hope this helps

Excellent references with empirical data to go along with it. This helps a lot.
Thanks -
I now have second thoughts about the Sabre Defence stripped lower I bought for $100 -(not quite up to snuff) not sure it will be good with a BCM 16" barrel/ a mid-length gas system.

furioso2112
01-27-2010, 23:43
I recall reading in a thread (or maybe on BCM's site) that BCM had troubles with some 3rd-party sellers passing off unmarked BCGs as BCM's during the buying frenzy last Winter/Spring; they ate the cost of replacing too many products that came back to them that were not actually of their manufacture, and decided to clearly mark their products.