g21 cycling issues [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Beege
01-25-2010, 15:38
Would someone please explain to me why 6 grains of hp-38, with a 200 grain Berry's fp will not cycle in my g21c. I am shooting outside in the cold weather, and i do understand that the porting in the barrel reduces psi. I haven't chrono'd that load yet but i can tell you that when i fire, the case barely comes off 3-4 inches. oal is 1.215. Everything i read says 6-6.2g of hp-38 is max. Ready to bump it up to 6.4. Can someone stear me in the right direction please. I'm about to have a blue light special on this thing, and just stay with my g-32. Thanks, Bill P.S. This pistol is new.

tjpet
01-25-2010, 15:44
Are you sure whatever machine your using is actually dropping 6.0grns. of HP-38? Double check just to be sure.

Beege
01-25-2010, 15:52
Are you sure whatever machine your using is actually dropping 6.0grns. of HP-38? Double check just to be sure.

I'm positive. I have 2 scales. I think i forgot to mention that this is a 21c model. What i don't understand is , if i need to increase the psi that much to make it cycle, that kind of defeats the purpose of having a ported barrel. It does cycle 230grain winchester fmj's factory ammo. I guess i really need to chrono this round. It sure feels soft. Starting to wonder if the spring is to heavy

Beege
01-25-2010, 15:58
Come on Fred, help me out here please

sourdough44
01-25-2010, 16:01
Hey, somewhat related. I just tested some 9mm loads today. They were 115 grn plated bullets over 4.1 grains of win 231. I found out there are to low/slow to reliably cycle my 92fs. You can also get an idea by how far & where the empty case gets ejected. I also tested some heavier bullets with a higher charge of H Universal, that & some 'bullseye' powder loads cycled fine. I got 2 stovepipes out of about 8 with the 231 loads. I may look into testing some Titegroup with these 115 grn plated bullets, or up the 231 charge. I didn't set up my chrony today but may have to also do that.

BuffaloBo
01-25-2010, 16:01
...limp wristing???? :dunno::whistling:

Beege
01-25-2010, 16:06
...limp wristing???? :dunno::whistling:

no!!!!!!!!!!!

ron59
01-25-2010, 16:37
I'd definitely chrono it.

Just doing some research, handloads.com is listing 5.9gr of HP38 for a 200gr JHP, which probably has close to the same "profile" as your FP? Only they're listing the COL as 1.155" as opposed to your 1.215.... they're a LOT shorter. That length difference will definitely affect the pressure, thus the velocity, etc....

MSgt Dotson
01-25-2010, 16:49
Is the concern that the cases are not being ejected very far, or is the pistol actually malfunctioning (stovepiping) with this load?

I use 5.7 gr of 231 with 200 gr bullets, which makes 840 fps....it is not a powerful load by factory standards....

I'd first see if your loaded rounds drop flush with the bbl hood; any full diameter profile of the bullet (.4515" diameter), should just barely be above the case mouth. Might back off on charge a tenth, and seat them to 1.19"....

There is also no certainty that plated bullets can be used in a "C" model without careful attention to not overcrimping, which might slice the plating....

I would not be using recoil (or case ejection distance) as your judge of an effective load, as even the unported GLock 21 is pretty darn mild, recoil- wise....

FInd someone with a chrono....!

Beege
01-25-2010, 18:25
Is the concern that the cases are not being ejected very far, or is the pistol actually malfunctioning (stovepiping) with this load?

I use 5.7 gr of 231 with 200 gr bullets, which makes 840 fps....it is not a powerful load by factory standards....

I'd first see if your loaded rounds drop flush with the bbl hood; any full diameter profile of the bullet (.4515" diameter), should just barely be above the case mouth. Might back off on charge a tenth, and seat them to 1.19"....

There is also no certainty that plated bullets can be used in a "C" model without careful attention to not overcrimping, which might slice the plating....

I would not be using recoil (or case ejection distance) as your judge of an effective load, as even the unported GLock 21 is pretty darn mild, recoil- wise....

FInd someone with a chrono....!
They are not ejecting far at all, and are also stovepiping. I do have a chrono here. Just haven't had the time. I think you may have something with the seating depth. Thanks, Bill

fredj338
01-25-2010, 18:40
Come on Fred, help me out here please
Stock springs? I think I have also shot 5.6-5.7gr under a 200grLSWC ot LTC. I shoot 5.3gr w/ a 230grLRN for about 830fps. Your load is certainly not on the light side.
I load the same bullet for my son's USP. I will check my data when I get home. The compensator could just be reacting to the burn rate of that particular powder & failing on you a bit. I assume you are taper crimping? The OAL is about right for that bullet.:dunno:

Beege
01-25-2010, 19:09
Stock springs? I think I have also shot 5.6-5.7gr under a 200grLSWC ot LTC. I shoot 5.3gr w/ a 230grLRN for about 830fps. Your load is certainly not on the light side.
I load the same bullet for my son's USP. I will check my data when I get home. The compensator could just be reacting to the burn rate of that particular powder & failing on you a bit. I assume you are taper crimping? The OAL is about right for that bullet.:dunno: Hey Fred, just modified the load a bit. I have 6.3 gr. of hp38. Brought the oal down to 1.190 with light taper crimp. od around crimp area after crimping is around .470 to .471. working 12 hr days so i may not get to try it till i shoot plates on sat. The temp has been around 10-15 degrees above zero. Do you have any idea what effect that has on the burn rate. Seems to me that 6.3gr. is aproaching +p loads. And I do have stock springs. This g21c is only a month old. Thanks again, Bill

Zombie Steve
01-25-2010, 22:52
I'd first see if your loaded rounds drop flush with the bbl hood.!


...and fall out freely.


This was my first thought. Sorry, I'm no help with that powder.

fredj338
01-26-2010, 00:59
Hey Fred, just modified the load a bit. I have 6.3 gr. of hp38. Brought the oal down to 1.190 with light taper crimp. od around crimp area after crimping is around .470 to .471. working 12 hr days so i may not get to try it till i shoot plates on sat. The temp has been around 10-15 degrees above zero. Do you have any idea what effect that has on the burn rate. Seems to me that 6.3gr. is aproaching +p loads. And I do have stock springs. This g21c is only a month old. Thanks again, Bill

Most powders drop a little pressure in temps that low, so if they function ok, be careful going to temps above 75-80deg. You are pushing that load pretty hard. Speer sas 6.3gr for about 860fps. I would agree, especially w/ the slightly softer plated bullet. I Run 5.6gr under a 200grLTC, sim shape to the Berry's, at 1.220" for about 830fps in a 5" XD or 1911. I'ld take that to maybe 5.8gr before moving to a bit slower powder. A chronograph will tell you if the load is in the vel range you need, but I have shot 100s of 200grLTC in a friends G21 using that load & it worked fine. If the recoil spring is the same for the 'C; model as the std. then I can only guess it's the comp that is messing w/ your pistol. Comped guns like slower powders that produce a bigger muzzle flash. Something like PowerPistol or WSF might work better. I only have one comped gun, a 1911, it runs fine on that load but runs better w/ Unique ir WSF (more recoil reduction).

Beege
01-26-2010, 04:54
Most powders drop a little pressure in temps that low, so if they function ok, be careful going to temps above 75-80deg. You are pushing that load pretty hard. Speer sas 6.3gr for about 860fps. I would agree, especially w/ the slightly softer plated bullet. I Run 5.6gr under a 200grLTC, sim shape to the Berry's, at 1.220" for about 830fps in a 5" XD or 1911. I'ld take that to maybe 5.8gr before moving to a bit slower powder. A chronograph will tell you if the load is in the vel range you need, but I have shot 100s of 200grLTC in a friends G21 using that load & it worked fine. If the recoil spring is the same for the 'C; model as the std. then I can only guess it's the comp that is messing w/ your pistol. Comped guns like slower powders that produce a bigger muzzle flash. Something like PowerPistol or WSF might work better. I only have one comped gun, a 1911, it runs fine on that load but runs better w/ Unique ir WSF (more recoil reduction).

Thanks again Fred