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Roering
01-28-2010, 13:40
I see there are "big pistol" and "small pistol" primers.

I'm looking to load for both .40 S&W and 9mm for my G23 so would it be big or small?

Thanks

fudd
01-28-2010, 13:44
Depends...are they big .40s and 9s or small .40s and 9s?

BUY A BOOK!

garyjandfamily
01-28-2010, 13:49
I see there are "big pistol" and "small pistol" primers.

I'm looking to load for both .40 S&W and 9mm for my G23 so would it be big or small?

Thanks

You are going to catch a lot of flack for this one - so let me try to be a reasonable voice.

If you are asking this question, you are not ready to reload. Buy a book. Read it cover-to-cover. Then re-read the sections that are important to what you want to load. Then ask questions - we'd love to help!

GioaJack
01-28-2010, 13:50
The load data in one of your manuals will show you exactly which primers to use for each caliber and each load, i.e. standard or magnum load.

I certainly don't want to be unhelpful but you're attempting to load two calibers that could potentially get you in trouble, especially the high pressure .40.

If you don't know the most basic terminology or the simplest of the loading components you may have some research and reading left to do before you possibly ruin a gun or lose body parts.

It's a very enjoyable hobby... but it can hurt you really bad if you don't put in the effort to learn it. I wish you good fortune and many happy years of loading... but don't try to take shortcuts.

Jack

Colorado4Wheel
01-28-2010, 13:51
It's in the cartridge discription section of your reloading manual.

polizei1
01-28-2010, 13:57
And you guys thought I was bad. Still am BTW. :faint:

-Cody

fredj338
01-28-2010, 14:14
You are going to catch a lot of flack for this one - so let me try to be a reasonable voice.

If you are asking this question, you are not ready to reload. Buy a book. Read it cover-to-cover. Then re-read the sections that are important to what you want to load. Then ask questions - we'd love to help!
I have to agree, this is a very basic question that a reloading manual tells you for every cartrdige. I'll throw you a bone, but you need to read a book. The 9mm & 40 both take small pistol, std. primers.:upeyes:

Roering
01-28-2010, 14:22
Jeez guys, I haven't loaded yet but am just looking at the cost vs. buying already manufactured ammunition. Perhaps this isn't the right kind of place to ask questions.

--never said I was ready to reload.
I would ask what the difference is but I dare not.

Thank you Fredj338 for an answer.

DoctaGlockta
01-28-2010, 14:31
I see there are "big pistol" and "small pistol" primers.

I'm looking to load for both .40 S&W and 9mm for my G23 so would it be big or small?

Thanks
Oh dear:couch:

robin303
01-28-2010, 14:36
Jeez guys, I haven't loaded yet but am just looking at the cost vs. buying already manufactured ammunition. Perhaps this isn't the right kind of place to ask questions.

--never said I was ready to reload.
I would ask what the difference is but I dare not.

Thank you Fredj338 for an answer.

Deep down they are really trying to help you out. Reloading can be a very dangerous. Get at least 3 books.

polizei1
01-28-2010, 14:57
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1059284&highlight=primer+sizes

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1027887

The problem is, that questions is very obvious with hardly any research. I did a few days of extensive research before I decided to post my first post...so I at least understood the basics. I would suggest reading all the stickies and the newbie guide, it has a ton of useful information. Remember, if you're reloading, you're dealing with explosive primers and powder. That alone can be extremely dangerous, not to mention other things. They're just trying to look out for your safety.

-Cody

Roering
01-28-2010, 15:05
Deep down they are really trying to help you out. Reloading can be a very dangerous. Get at least 3 books.

Really? Get 3 books before I even price out the components? Before I even entertain the thought of reloading vs. buying manufactured ammo??? I NEED TO READ 3 BOOKS ON RELOADING BEFORE I ASK A QUESTION ABOUT PRIMERS?!?!?!?

I know reloading can be dangerous but should researching it be so dangerous?

AA#5
01-28-2010, 15:14
Jeez guys, I haven't loaded yet but am just looking at the cost vs. buying already manufactured ammunition. Perhaps this isn't the right kind of place to ask questions.

--never said I was ready to reload.
I would ask what the difference is but I dare not.

Thank you Fredj338 for an answer.

Some people read too much into a question. I think some people here assume you're sitting at a loading bench already handloading & if you're asking that question, you shouldn't be handloading until you have more knowledge. Not everyone is that way.

The primer pockets are either large or small - same with rifle cartridges. If you look at a 44 or 45 auto case, you'll notice the primer pocket is larger. Also, there are standard and magnum primers. Magnum primers have a bigger spark needed to ignite slower-burning powders for higher velocity.

To others here: What's wrong with answering a question, then adding: "For your safety, consult a loading manual before handloading."

Colorado4Wheel
01-28-2010, 15:36
Really? Get 3 books before I even price out the components? Before I even entertain the thought of reloading vs. buying manufactured ammo??? I NEED TO READ 3 BOOKS ON RELOADING BEFORE I ASK A QUESTION ABOUT PRIMERS?!?!?!?

I know reloading can be dangerous but should researching it be so dangerous?

Primers all cost about the same. Lg vs Sm. No real difference.

Roering
01-28-2010, 15:38
For those in the "You'll blow up your garage kid" court.

I would not go messing around with powder and primers that would ignite it until I know what I'm doing.

I'm just trying to see if it is worthwhile to load/reload.

Where I live ammunition is expensive...really expensive. $25 plus for cheap target .40 ammo expensive and come Feb of 2011 buying online will not be allowed so I'm looking at other alternatives to foster my hobby.

GioaJack
01-28-2010, 15:39
Really? Get 3 books before I even price out the components? Before I even entertain the thought of reloading vs. buying manufactured ammo??? I NEED TO READ 3 BOOKS ON RELOADING BEFORE I ASK A QUESTION ABOUT PRIMERS?!?!?!?

I know reloading can be dangerous but should researching it be so dangerous?


Would you let your children drive your car without first reading a driving manual just because they have an 'interest' in driving? I doubt it.

If you have to ask a question about primers, the most basic of loading components, and not even a technical question about load reduction when forced to use magnum primers when standards are scarce demonstrates that you really 'don't' know how dangerous loading can be.

You've come to a forum where the combined experience in loading is hundreds and hundreds of years with millions and millions of rounds having been produced on equipment ranging from tongs to progressive presses as well as cramming a round ball down the muzzle of a rifle.

Every one here, every single poster is here to help and/or learn but unlike our current society we don't subscribe to the theory of coddling someone from cradle to grave... self-help and self-responsibility enters into the equation.

We understand that you want to decide if loading will be cost effective vs factory but without a little research/reading on your part how can you possibly have any idea of what you might need to base those cost effectiveness decisions on?

If the answers to your questions contain information involving burn rate, CUP pressures, grains vs CC, air cast vs water drop, SP, LP, SR, LR, SRBR or LRBR would you even have any idea what anyone was talking about?

Take a few minutes to read the stickies at the top of the threads, members of this forum spent a good deal of time and effort putting those together to help those just like you who have an interest in learning about the art of loading.

Demonstrate a little effort in learning a little bit about what many of us have taken decades to learn and I do believe you'll be surprised at how much enthusiastic help you'll receive.

Jack

KinderGlocken
01-28-2010, 15:46
Basically I can reload for at least half the price of new ammo. Do I save money? No, I just shoot twice as much.

LoadedTech
01-28-2010, 15:58
Where I live ammunition is expensive...really expensive. $25 plus for cheap target .40 ammo expensive and come Feb of 2011 buying online will not be allowed so I'm looking at other alternatives to foster my hobby.

Sounds like you live in CA or of the sort. You might want to find out if you can mail order primers and or powder after Feb 2011, in your state. I started reloading when I couldnt find ammo at all. You save about 1/2 of what you would spend on loaded ammo. The start up cost involved will allow you to break even at 3-5k rounds made depending on the press you buy.

Colorado4Wheel
01-28-2010, 16:47
For those in the "You'll blow up your garage kid" court.

I would not go messing around with powder and primers that would ignite it until I know what I'm doing.

I'm just trying to see if it is worthwhile to load/reload.

Where I live ammunition is expensive...really expensive. $25 plus for cheap target .40 ammo expensive and come Feb of 2011 buying online will not be allowed so I'm looking at other alternatives to foster my hobby.

YOU asked and answered your own question in reality.

Come 2011 do you think ammo will cost more or less in your area?

Come 2011 do you think reloading supplies will cost more or less in your area?

It's simple. I don't even know if I would buy a press. I would buy as many primers and as much powder as possible. If bullets are on that list of banned things add that to your shopping spree. In 2011 you could sell them all and make a profit OR get a press and start loading.

Boxerglocker
01-28-2010, 17:17
I'm just trying to see if it is worthwhile to load/reload.

Where I live ammunition is expensive...really expensive. $25 plus for cheap target .40 ammo expensive and come Feb of 2011 buying online will not be allowed so I'm looking at other alternatives to foster my hobby.

Right now you could be buying components for premium reloaded ammo online for yourself. The total cost would be about $8.50 a box with bulk buys of Bullets (case of MG 180g FMJ's $300) primers (5K at $24-26 a K) powder (8# jugs $75-90) plus hazmat, no tax.

It could only get cheaper, if you buy more. So the real question is not whether it's worthwhile, in my view you have no other alternative if you intend to continue with you hobby.

As a point of reference: I shoot 1000-1200 rounds of 9mm and/.40 a month, cost me anywhere between $90 to $125 a month depending on if I'm loading lead or FMJ. In perspective, it cost me about $400 total to get started reloading one caliber with a LCT and the required tooling. Given your cost of what you pay for ammo. I paid for that tooling in LESS than 2k rounds!

So is it worth it? Ask yourself again... :whistling:

chineseboxer
01-28-2010, 17:25
I surfed the web for 2 months in addition to buying 3 manuals before I hit the forums. Please do your homework. I have no problem with you asking the question. Hoefully you learned more than just what size primer you need. Please be careful.

fredj338
01-28-2010, 18:45
Really? Get 3 books before I even price out the components? Before I even entertain the thought of reloading vs. buying manufactured ammo??? I NEED TO READ 3 BOOKS ON RELOADING BEFORE I ASK A QUESTION ABOUT PRIMERS?!?!?!?

I know reloading can be dangerous but should researching it be so dangerous?
Ok, maybe one book. Really, before I think of doing anything, reloading windsurfing, building a chickEn coop, working on my car, whatever, I go buy a book or read a bunch of stuff on the net. Maybe if you prefaced your question w/ " I am thinking of reloading & want to price components to see if it's worth it". Something like that will get you further than sounding like a guy that has no clue about what he is doing. "Looking to load" sounds a lot like you already got gear & are trying to shortcut your learning curve. So some of us like to get newbs to STOP & actually research before putting bullets over primers. It may just save you an eye or a hand.:upeyes:
I see there are "big pistol" and "small pistol" primers.
I'm looking to load for both .40 S&W and 9mm for my G23 so would it be big or small?

Roering
01-28-2010, 19:07
Ok, maybe one book. Really, before I think of doing anything, reloadingm windsurfing, building a chicekn coop, whatever, I go buy a book or read a bunch of stuff on the net. Maybe if you prefaced your question w/ " I am thinking of reloading & want to price components to see if it's worth it". Something like that will get you further than sounding like a guy that has no clue about what he is doing. "Looking to load" sounds a lot like you already got gear & are trying to shortcut your learning curve. So some of us like to get newbs to STOP & actually research before putting bullets over primers. It may just save you an eye or a hand.:upeyes:

You read a book on it before even thinking about doing it?
I have to wonder, what got you to read the book in the first place?

Usually I get the idea of doing something first, and then I read up, research, ask questions, etc. etc.

I wouldn't go playing with combustible anything without proper research and advice. I'm sorry if my question gave the wrong impression. Perhaps some should not have jumped to a conclusion though?

For those who feel such questions are beneath you to answer but not ridicule here's one more.

What makes the primer stick to the brass?:tongueout:

PBKing
01-28-2010, 19:13
Usually I get the idea of doing something first, and then I read up, research, ask questions, etc. etc.
That seems completely reasonable to me.
And therein lies the problem..What happened this time?

n2extrm
01-28-2010, 19:20
Because you are new to the whole reloading thing you may not understand. SOME people will try to reload by searching the net and trolling for a "good load". As you learn all that goes into making a "good load" you will realise that this is very dangerous to do. The guys here try to steer people on to the right track. Give them a chance and check out one of the many book mentioned in the stickys, like Lyman or ABC's of reloading and it will be easier to understand, both us and you. Reloading is alot of fun. If you like to shoot it will help you shoot more and spend less. It also can help you enjoy your hobby when the weather will not allow you to get out and shoot. You can taylor loads for the gun or the purpouse at hand. Light target loads, super accurate competition loads, or full power hunting loads. It is all up to you.

Roering
01-28-2010, 19:25
That seems completely reasonable to me.
And therein lies the problem..What happened this time?

What do you mean? I asked a question? That is allowed under my "pre-doing" stage isn't it?

PBKing
01-28-2010, 19:31
Usually I get the idea of doing something first, and then I read up, research, ask questions, etc. etc.

That sequence is a good plan.

PBKing
01-28-2010, 19:42
A little more info might be helpful to help you calculate a practical estimate for your needs.

PBKing
01-28-2010, 20:08
Where I live ammunition is expensive...really expensive. $25 plus for cheap target .40 ammo expensive and come Feb of 2011 buying online will not be allowed so I'm looking at other alternatives to foster my hobby. Hey with that much stress you got nothin but sympathy from me. How can you afford Not to handload?

Poppa Bear
01-28-2010, 20:39
I see there are "big pistol" and "small pistol" primers.

I'm looking to load for both .40 S&W and 9mm for my G23 so would it be big or small?

Thanks

Having read the entire thread. :) Rather than asking a specific question about primers, you will get much better responses by asking "I am thinking about getting into reloading. What do I need to know? What is nice to know? What should I avoid?"

Some people here have been reloading since the ICE AGE :supergrin:

Some are fairly new to reloading.

But all of us dealt with the potentially dangerous learning curve involved in reloading. Some powders are very forgiving. Some cartridges are very forgiving. Some powders and cartridges have VERY tight tolerances, VERY tight.

You need to read several different books that deal with reloading because each one explains things differently. After you have read the books then it is appropriate to come online to the Reloading Forum to ask questions to clarify what confuses you or fails to make sense because the books seem to contradict each other. We are more than happy to assist, BUT you need at the very least a basic understanding of the process and parts for our advice to make sense.

fredj338
01-28-2010, 23:57
You read a book on it before even thinking about doing it?
I have to wonder, what got you to read the book in the first place?

Usually I get the idea of doing something first, and then I read up, research, ask questions, etc. etc.

I wouldn't go playing with combustible anything without proper research and advice. I'm sorry if my question gave the wrong impression. Perhaps some should not have jumped to a conclusion though?

For those who feel such questions are beneath you to answer but not ridicule here's one more.

What makes the primer stick to the brass?:tongueout:
You crack me up. You stated you were thinking of reloading. Well, when I think of doing something, I research it first. Personaly, I do not want to go on any site & ask a question that is so easily researched. Pick up any reloading book & it will not only tell you what size primer to use, but most of the brands available. AS to your question; it's a press fit, just like the bullet. When pressures are too high for too long, the primer pocket (little thing the primer goes into) will stretch & that case is no longer safe to reload.
You need to read several different books that deal with reloading because each one explains things differently. After you have read the books then it is appropriate to come online to the Reloading Forum to ask questions to clarify what confuses you or fails to make sense because the books seem to contradict each other. We are more than happy to assist, BUT you need at the very least a basic understanding of the process and parts for our advice to make sense.
Good point, but the question asked completely tells anyone that has even read a book, not mention actually reloaded, which cases use qhich primers. A question about small primers in 45acp would be a good question for a newb as it may not be available in common ref mat'l. but which primer for this or that, dude, pick up a book! There are no dumb questions, but if you want to be taken seriously, you must present your question the same way.
You know, my kids used to ask me to spell words for them. I finally started making them look them up. Why? Because you remember far more when you read it, even more when you write it down.

KinderGlocken
01-29-2010, 00:16
thinking about doing it?
For those who feel such questions are beneath you to answer but not ridicule here's one more.
What makes the primer stick to the brass?:tongueout:

Primer glue. But you can use super glue in a pinch.:tongueout:

Colorado4Wheel
01-29-2010, 09:26
What do you mean? I asked a question? That is allowed under my "pre-doing" stage isn't it?

Now you just want to argue. Supposedly you asked the question for cost purposes. They are all the same cost so what was the real reason for asking the question? Maybe you didn't know they are all the same cost. Either way you didn't research things one bit, asked a really basic question and now are trying to turn it into something it's not. A price search. Yeah, right.:rofl:

Roering
01-29-2010, 10:34
Now you just want to argue. Supposedly you asked the question for cost purposes. They are all the same cost so what was the real reason for asking the question? Maybe you didn't know they are all the same cost. Either way you didn't research things one bit, asked a really basic question and now are trying to turn it into something it's not. A price search. Yeah, right.:rofl:

Let me help you out here.

Research:
"The search for knowledge or any systematic investigation to establish facts."

I believe asking questions falls under this does it not?

Colorado4Wheel
01-29-2010, 10:46
Asking a question IS NOT RESEARCH.

Research is actual going out and looking for a answer. Not getting things spoon fed to you by people who paid their dues.

www.google.com

Even that would have answered your question.

MrVvrroomm
01-29-2010, 10:49
I see there are "big pistol" and "small pistol" primers.He said "big pistol" ...sorry, this just made me laugh.

Buy yourself the book ABC's of reloading. Read it cover to cover. Buy a couple of other manufacturer's manuals, read them cover to cover. Then come back and read your original post. You'll chuckle, I guarantee it.

Roering
01-29-2010, 11:02
Hey with that much stress you got nothin but sympathy from me. How can you afford Not to handload?

Well, I don't shoot that much to begin with so my overall cost isn't that high. I'd say no more than 1,500 rounds a year on average. A part of me also wants to do it for fun as well as not succumbing to or rather working around an imposed law such as this. If I go the handloading rout I would keep it cheap and simple. Probably find a recipie for a softer load and stick with it (with that little shooting I wouldn't have that much of a need to play around with it all that much). From what I've read the .40 is at a pretty high pressure to begin with so If I err I would err on the side of caution.

Roering
01-29-2010, 11:07
He said "big pistol" ...sorry, this just made me laugh.

Buy yourself the book ABC's of reloading. Read it cover to cover. Buy a couple of other manufacturer's manuals, read them cover to cover. Then come back and read your original post. You'll chuckle, I guarantee it.


I probably will. Midway had these categories on their web site though.

Large Pistol, Small Pistol, Large Rifle, Small Rifle, etc..

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseCategories.aspx?tabId=1&categoryId=17587&categoryString=9315***17585***

Colorado4Wheel
01-29-2010, 11:15
what I've read the .40 is at a pretty high pressure to begin with so If I err I would err on the side of caution.

Lets make a brief list of pistol calibers that are HIGHER pressure then the .40S&W

9mm, 38 Super, 9x21mm, .357 SIG, .357 MAG, 10mm, 41 MAG and every other large bore MAG caliber.

Lets make a brief list of calibers with less pressure then .40S&W

45 ACP (1905), .38 Special (1902), .380 Auto (1908), 45 GAP (it's nearly the same as the 40S&W)

So if we go back to 1908 (every common caliber after the .380) you will find that nearly every caliber made is more pressure then the .40S&W. Only exception is the 45GAP (and it's almost the same). Yep, that .40S&W is a really high pressure round. It's way more pressure then the things we invented 100 years ago.

datum214
01-29-2010, 11:47
If you are still interested in calculating your cost pm me I have an excel program that was made by somebody on this site or another Glock site (can't remember just who at the moment but would give them their props if I did) called SLUG (Simple Little Utility for Gloscksters) that has real of useful calculators for cost, pay off, conversions and energy.

I won't weigh in on your question or the way you asked your question or who is guilty of 'tude. Even though this is only my second post, I check this board daily and can tell you I have learned a wealth of information just absorbing the reply's from these guys. I currently only reload for the 9mm but enjoy hearing about other calibers and information about equipment and components I don't have as well. Generally speaking, it appears everybody that reply's on this site are willing to help.

kcbrown
01-29-2010, 12:03
Primer glue. But you can use super glue in a pinch.:tongueout:

I searched for primer glue at Midway but I didn't get any hits.

Is there a huge primer glue shortage as a result of Obama's election? Anyone know when it's likely to come back into stock anywhere?


:rofl:

GioaJack
01-29-2010, 12:18
I searched for primer glue at Midway but I didn't get any hits.

Is there a huge primer glue shortage as a result of Obama's election? Anyone know when it's likely to come back into stock anywhere?


:rofl:


'Primer glue' is included in the same category as 'nose oil', the difference being 'nose oil' is obtained by rubbing a finger across the corner of the nose and lip... 'primer glue' is obtained by swirling a Q-Tip deep into the ear canal.

As an experienced loader I am more than a bit surprised that you are not aware of this basic procedure.

May I suggest rereading your copies of the ABC's of Reloading and Lyman's 49th. This time spend less time on the pictures and more time on the text.

As always, I am here to help. :whistling:

Jack

kcbrown
01-29-2010, 12:55
'Primer glue' is included in the same category as 'nose oil', the difference being 'nose oil' is obtained by rubbing a finger across the corner of the nose and lip... 'primer glue' is obtained by swirling a Q-Tip deep into the ear canal.


Ah, well, you see, these days everything's been commercialized and packaged for sale.

For instance, believe it or not, they actually sell bullets these days. Can you believe it?

But I must say I have the deepest respect for people who are self-sufficient enough to make their own bullets and obtain their own primer glue. :whistling:



As an experienced loader I am more than a bit surprised that you are not aware of this basic procedure.
Well, there's "experienced" as in "have reloaded a few thousand rounds" and then there's "experienced" as in "started reloading for muskets because the American Revolution sent factory ammo prices sky high"...

I think you're confusing me for the latter. But I must say, I'm honored that you would even consider me a possible member of your elite group! :wavey:



May I suggest rereading your copies of the ABC's of Reloading and Lyman's 49th. This time spend less time on the pictures and more time on the text.
Unfortunately, I don't seem to have a copy of the 1765 edition of ABC's, and the library seems to have lost their copy...

Oh, and I think you meant Lyman's 4th, which I'm ashamed to say I haven't got, either. An understandable typo, of course...



As always, I am here to help. :whistling:
And that help is much appreciated!

Speaking of which, could you tell us again how you guys back in the day managed to deal with crimped primer pockets when reloading for your muskets?

:supergrin:

GioaJack
01-29-2010, 13:43
Wise ass. :supergrin:

Jack

dudel
01-29-2010, 14:17
Let me help you out here.

Research:
"The search for knowledge or any systematic investigation to establish facts."

I believe asking questions falls under this does it not?

Don't help me out. You're not doing "research"; you are asking to be spoon fed. When C4W gave you the answer, the proper response is "Thank you".

Strange technique you have for asking for hjelp. I'll bet your attitude doesn't get you many answers here. You're off to a great start.

Bob2223
01-29-2010, 14:18
I searched for primer glue at Midway but I didn't get any hits.

Is there a huge primer glue shortage as a result of Obama's election? Anyone know when it's likely to come back into stock anywhere?


:rofl:

No need for primer glue, if your primers are under sized just get a primer swager.

Bob

dudel
01-29-2010, 15:47
I searched for primer glue at Midway but I didn't get any hits.

Is there a huge primer glue shortage as a result of Obama's election? Anyone know when it's likely to come back into stock anywhere?


:rofl:

Here ya go! http://markroncustomgunproducts.com/

Kinda glues em in. Who needs a stinking priming tool? Get loose pockets then just push em in with you finger. Works, kinda. :supergrin:

kcbrown
01-29-2010, 15:52
Here ya go! http://markroncustomgunproducts.com/

Kinda glues em in. Who needs a stinking priming tool? Get loose pockets then just push em in with you finger. Works, kinda. :supergrin:

Hmm...it's kinda silent on how to mount it to the press, though... :dunno: :supergrin:

OgenRwot
01-29-2010, 17:45
I'd say no more than 1,500 rounds a year on average.

If that's all you shoot it's probably not worth the start up cost.

GioaJack
01-29-2010, 17:52
Hmm...it's kinda silent on how to mount it to the press, though... :dunno: :supergrin:


It a waste of money... I simply slip a few bottles of clear nail polish in my pocket while I'm getting my weekly manicure. :whistling:

Jack

Colorado4Wheel
01-29-2010, 18:00
If that's all you shoot it's probably not worth the start up cost.

Or just get a single stage setup. That would be cheap. BUT, you have to buy/have a bench, space, etc. It would take 2 years to get your money back on a LCT setup. To me thats still worth it.