A personal account of trying to obtaining a NFA controlled item. [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : A personal account of trying to obtaining a NFA controlled item.


BirdDog239
01-30-2010, 03:57
I have found lots of information about obtaining a NFA controlled item, but I have not seen any posting detailing exactly how long it took them and the actual cost. The goal of this thread is to document every penny spend and to document how long each step took me to obtain a NFA controlled item in 2010.

I know there are several ways to obtain a NFA controlled item, but this is what seemed to be the best option for me. (Updates will be added to the original post and it will be bumped to the top when updates occur)

My object of desire is a 22 caliber “Mite” suppressor manufactured by Yankee Hill Machine.

1/29/10 (Day 1)
I went to a local gun shop which I believed had a class 3 license. Well it turned out that they did, but it expired last year. I was told that the cost for the license was $500 and that last year he sold zero NFA controlled items; in an effort to save money he did not renew that license. He did provide me some local information which was very helpful.

He told me that the local Chief of Police (in my city of residence), the County Sheriff, and the County Prosecutor had the authority to sign off on my paperwork. He also suggested a gun shop in a nearby city that had a class 3 license.

I was fortunate in the fact that I have spoken with the county prosecutor several times and he knew who I was, through several work related conversations. I stopped by his office and I waited approximately 45 minutes before he came back. I really wanted to find someone that would sign off on my paperwork before I started spending money.

The local County Prosecutor is a huge supporter of the second amendment and he said he would be willing to sign off on my paperwork, but he did want to know why I wanted a suppressor. My answer was that the look and function of a suppressor was “cool”. I also told him that I did not know of anyone personally that has went through the time and expense of obtaining one. Strangely he said that he understood my reason.

I did ask him how many times a year that he is asked to sign off of on this kind of paperwork and he said approximately two to three times per year. He also said that the County Sheriff sometimes refers people to him instead of signing off on the paperwork himself.

2-1-10 (Day 4)
I attempted to contact three gun dealers. The first dealer that I spoke with agreed to handle the transfer for a fee of $200. The second dealer agreed to handle the transfer for $50. The third one sent me an e-mail explaining that they were out of town and would not be available to conduct any business until next week.

The second dealer recommended a similar priced suppressor by Rock Creek Arms instead of the Yankee Hill Machine “Mite” suppressor. He said that he would be willing to order whatever suppressor I wanted, but he did claim that the Rock Creek Arms suppressor was a high value item and would preform better.

I thought about it for awhile and I decided to go with the second dealer's recommendation.

2-2-10 (Day 5)
I sent $225 to the dealer to place the order for me.

2-3-10 (Day 6)
I received confirmation from the dealer that the item has been ordered and the money order had been received.

4-8-10 (Day 70)
My FFL Dealer received my suppressor today. He said that he would be mailing Form 4.

4-21-10 (day 83)
Today I went to my CLEO and he signed Form 4 for me. I also went spent $12.79 for two passport photos. I also got a $200 money order for $201.59 and I mail in my application with delivery confirmation for $5.60.

8-3-10 (day 167)
Well today I found out that my paperwork was approved on July 7th. I haven't seen any paperwork yet.

8-19-10 (day 203)
The paperwork finely arrived today.

8-20-10 (day 204)
The wait is finely over. Today I picked up my suppressor. I can't wait to go to the range. Overall the total cost was $486.58 and it took over 6 months since I started the process.

Cost
$226.60 - ($225 for the suppressor) money order
$201.59 - ($200 for the NFA Tax Stamp) money order
$ 12.79 - two passport photos (from AAA)
$ 5.60 - Postage with confirmation
$ 42.00 - transfer fee and tax

Total so far $486.58

DustyJacket
01-30-2010, 06:54
If you have not found anyone posting how long everything took them, and how much it cost, then you've not been looking in the right place.

try silencertalk

r2kba
01-30-2010, 10:32
I have found lots of information about obtaining a NFA controlled item, but no one has posted anything on exactly how long it took them and the actual cost. The goal of this thread is to document every penny spend and to document how long each step took me to obtain a NFA controlled item in 2010.

I know there are several ways to obtain a NFA controlled item, but this is what seemed to be the best option for me. (Updates will be added to the original post and it will be bumped to the top when updates occur)

My object of desire is a 22 caliber “Mite” suppressor manufactured by Yankee Hill Machine.

1/29/10
I went to a local gun shop which I believed had a class 3 license. Well it turned out that they did, but it expired last year. I was told that the cost for the license was $500 and that last year he sold zero NFA controlled items; in an effort to save money he did not renew that license. He did provide me some local information which was very helpful.

He told me that the local Chief of Police (in my city of residence), the County Sheriff, and the County Prosecutor had the authority to sign off on my paperwork. He also suggested a gun shop in a nearby city that had a class 3 license.

I was fortunate in the fact that I have spoken with the county prosecutor several times and he knew who I was, through several work related conversations. I stopped by his office and I waited approximately 45 minutes before he came back. I really wanted to find someone that would sign off on my paperwork before I started spending money.

The local County Prosecutor is a huge supporter of the second amendment and he said he would be willing to sign off on my paperwork, but he did want to know why I wanted a suppressor. My answer was that the look and function of a suppressor was “cool”. I also told him that I did not know of anyone personally that has went through the time and expense of obtaining one. Strangely he said that he understood my reason.

I did ask him how many times a year that he is asked to sign off of on this kind of paperwork and he said approximately two to three times per year. He also said that the County Sheriff sometimes refers people to him instead of signing off on the paperwork himself.



Most Forums that deal with NFA have timeline threads posted such as AR15.com, Uzitalk, etc. The time varies widely depending how you aquire the item and who researches the paperwork at NFA. It can take as little as 30 days, or as long as 6 months, sometimes longer.

Sean K.
02-01-2010, 13:25
I just got two form 1 SBR permits (individual, not trust....which would have been quicker) and it took almost 7 months.

Cost is $200 per tax stamp.

Time largely depends on your examiner to be honest. Some will have a 60 day turn around (even if you do and individual and have to have the FBI run your prints).....others will be your typical, slow bureaucrat taking 6 months or so.

It's a gamble and you're more likely to get the slow examiner IME.

JME,
Sean

BirdDog239
02-05-2010, 13:37
I just got two form 1 SBR permits (individual, not trust....which would have been quicker) and it took almost 7 months.

Cost is $200 per tax stamp.

Time largely depends on your examiner to be honest. Some will have a 60 day turn around (even if you do and individual and have to have the FBI run your prints).....others will be your typical, slow bureaucrat taking 6 months or so.

It's a gamble and you're more likely to get the slow examiner IME.

JME,
Sean

Thanks Sean for the info. I hope that I don't get an examiner that will take over 6 months. I would like to have the item before the end of the summer. The reason why I decided not to go with the trust is because the individual ownership is the traditional way to obtain one.

If a trust is used for ownership doesn't the item need to be engraved with the name of the trust?

PirateLookingAtForty
02-05-2010, 16:24
It does not.

r2kba
02-05-2010, 16:42
Thanks Sean for the info. I hope that I don't get an examiner that will take over 6 months. I would like to have the item before the end of the summer. The reason why I decided not to go with the trust is because the individual ownership is the traditional way to obtain one.

If a trust is used for ownership doesn't the item need to be engraved with the name of the trust?


If you file a Form-1, engraving is required regardless of who owns it. A corporation is just as traditional as individual ownership also btw.

RWBlue
02-06-2010, 14:38
Thanks Sean for the info. I hope that I don't get an examiner that will take over 6 months. I would like to have the item before the end of the summer. The reason why I decided not to go with the trust is because the individual ownership is the traditional way to obtain one.

If a trust is used for ownership doesn't the item need to be engraved with the name of the trust?

If you file a Form1, you "SHOULD" engrave the item with the information on the form1.

It is my understanding that engraving is NOT mandatory at this point. BUT IS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

Ninja Monkey
02-07-2010, 11:20
If you file a Form1, you "SHOULD" engrave the item with the information on the form1.

It is my understanding that engraving is NOT mandatory at this point. BUT IS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

No, it's required.

RWBlue
02-07-2010, 12:19
No, it's required.

It use to be a requirement, there is now case law saying it is not.

Alderak
05-06-2010, 10:32
I for one appreciate this effort from the original poster.


Also, whats the deal with silencertalk requiring registration just to read its forums? Plus, they don't accept yahoo or other free email accounts for registration.

PITA

r2kba
05-06-2010, 10:47
It use to be a requirement, there is now case law saying it is not.


Please post the ATF ruling or case law info on this.

r2kba
05-06-2010, 10:49
I for one appreciate this effort from the original poster.


Also, whats the deal with silencertalk requiring registration just to read its forums? Plus, they don't accept yahoo or other free email accounts for registration.

PITA


It prevents TROLLING and spam. When an account is linked to an internet service provider email address, criminal activity can be traced back to the ISP and people prosecuted. Yahoo and the sort alow anonymous posts which also can not be tracked as easily. Any ISP provides email address's to it's customers as part of the service and the website will permit any of those with a rr.com or swbell.com etc. The website does not reveal your email address if thats what your concern is. It's a good resource and anyone interested in this hobby should check them out as well as the other ones.

slewfoot
05-06-2010, 11:12
I SBRed a Sig P556 last year. My costs were 200 bucks for the stamp, 15 bucks for the passport photos, 20 bucks for the fingerprint cards, 60 bucks for engraving and of course the postage.

In my county the approving officer is the Sheriff's Chief Deputy. He turned out to be a fairly knowledgeable guy, who was extremely pleasant to deal with.

I sent a personal check for my stamp on the suggestion of a couple of buddies. By using a check, and keeping an eye on your account balance, you know exactly when the ATF cashed the check and started the process. Knowing this will save you a few calls inquiring if your process has started.

Don't worry about the two week waiting period for the check to clear. The approval process for the stamp takes a bit longer than two weeks.

As far as engraving the weapon, when I "built" my SBR the controlled item (in my case) the upper had to be engraved to ATF regulations. I sent my upper to http://www.orion-arms.com/ Here, I would send a money order because they do wait to work on your job after the check clears. There could be twenty jobs waiting on checks clearing, if you paid with a money order your order jumps to the head of the line. My turn around time was a little over a week.

The ATF specifies what should be engraved, where it should be engraved, the size of the lettering and the depth of the lettering. This is why I chose Orion. They do this for a living and follow ATF guidelines. You can't expect the local engraver at the mall to know this stuff.

If I remember correctly my stamp was in my hands 93 days after the check was cashed.

r2kba
05-06-2010, 11:20
I SBRed a Sig P556 last year. My costs were 200 bucks for the stamp, 15 bucks for the passport photos, 20 bucks for the fingerprint cards, 60 bucks for engraving and of course the postage.

In my county the approving officer is the Sheriff's Chief Deputy. He turned out to be a fairly knowledgeable guy, who was extremely pleasant to deal with.

I sent a personal check for my stamp on the suggestion of a couple of buddies. By using a check, and keeping an eye on your account balance, you know exactly when the ATF cashed the check and started the process. Knowing this will save you a few calls inquiring if your process has started.

Don't worry about the two week waiting period for the check to clear. The approval process for the stamp takes a bit longer than two weeks.

As far as engraving the weapon, when I "built" my SBR the controlled item (in my case) the upper had to be engraved to ATF regulations. I sent my upper to http://www.orion-arms.com/ Here, I would send a money order because they do wait to work on your job after the check clears. There could be twenty jobs waiting on checks clearing, if you paid with a money order your order jumps to the head of the line. My turn around time was a little over a week.

The ATF specifies what should be engraved, where it should be engraved, the size of the lettering and the depth of the lettering. This is why I chose Orion. They do this for a living and follow ATF guidelines. You can't expect the local engraver at the mall to know this stuff.

If I remember correctly my stamp was in my hands 93 days after the check was cashed.


I used ORION on my last 9mm SBR. Top notch workmanship.

edrobert
05-06-2010, 11:48
first off, congrats on your first entry into the NFA Game.....be careful as those stamps sure do like to multiply :)

Maybe I missed something, but why is your dealer charging you a transfer fee? That's typically not charged unless he's receiving a Form 3 Transfer on a Silencers you purchaed from another dealer. Any fees he may have should have been built into his price for the silencer......at least that' how they do it round these parts.

I hope you're not disappointed with your Rock Creek Silencer....I can't find anything on them when searching the net. Tell us more about it....is it sealed or can it be taken apart and cleaned? Is it made of Aluminum or Stainless Steel? These are two very important question when it comes to Rimfire Silencers as they get very dirty and will eventually fill up with lead if not cleaned. Sorry you has to wait so long for your silencer to arrive.......a little more research and you possibly could have gotten something a lot sooner from an out of state dealer like www.major-malfunction.com who carries all of the top brands and models. The Form 3 Transfer to your Dealer should have taken less than 30 days. Be thankful you didn't get the Mite as it's one of the loudest .22 Silencers available coupled with being notorious for weldingitself together in less than 500rds making disassembly very difficult.

I can't stress enough the need to do proper research to anyone that wants to jump into the NFA game. Get the proper knowledge so that you don't have to rely on what your local dealer tells you. They are simply salesman and will push whatever product they happen to have on hand to you as the latest and greatest just to get a sale whether it is or not. Trust me, there's no worse feeling than going through all the trouble to get a silencer only to find out it was one of the louder options available. It's better to not go cheap when it comes to this stuff since you're pretty much stuck with it for life......the resale market on this stuff sucks!

What's your host weapon?

Good luck and continue to keep us posted!

r2kba
05-06-2010, 12:00
fi

Maybe I missed something, but why is your dealer charging you a transfer fee? That's typically not charged unless he's receiving a Form 3 Transfer on a Silencers you purchaed from another dealer. Any fees he may have should have been built into his price for the silencer......at least that' how they do it round these parts.

!


+1 on this. There should NOT be a transfer fee associated here in my opinion either since its not a transfer in the sense that its on a form4 out of state.

stooxie
05-06-2010, 12:18
+1 on silencertalk.

+1 on stamp multiplication problems!

BirdDog, the process is cumbersome, but if you look around you'll see that you're already very lucky if your local LEO signs off with no issues. Lots of people don't have that "luxury" even when no state or local ordinance prevents them from doing it.

Where I am the sheriff still signs off but even that can take a number of weeks and requires a whole independent background check with fingerprints. I ain't complaining too loudly, though. You jump through their hoops and the signed forms come back with no further questions. See paragraph #1!

As for the BATF, I dunno. I've got 4 stamps now and the waits have been remarkably consistent for document arrival, check cash, status pending, status approved and received. I don't know how or why some people seem to get stuck with 6 month waits. For me it's been a very consistent 90 days.

-Stooxie

dday27
05-07-2010, 10:24
YHM Cobra M2 for 9mm

Check cashed 11/09/09
Went pending 01/07/10
Still waiting due to an error on form by seller..
6 months now

Looks like even longer wait, Thinking about a refund...

UZIFORME
05-07-2010, 23:21
In Ohio I would use this dealer. http://www.cousinos-firearms.com/

In life going with low bidder sometimes you get what you pay for.

The YHM while not one of the top elite units, it is good and sturdy and backed by a company that will be there for years and large enough to continue on if the principal owner dies.

A smaller custom shop might make a fine product, but a lifetime warranty only lasts as long as the company exists.

I have never heard of Rock Creek silencers. Give us the information on them, they might be the sleeper of the silencer world that no one knows about.

I hope your $50 dealer comes through for you. Good luck.

RWBlue
05-08-2010, 10:09
In Ohio I would use this dealer. http://www.cousinos-firearms.com/


Scott did a transfer for me.
He did exactly what he said he was going to do. So although the transfer took awhile, I knew where I stood all the time.

His, MP5K-PDW is awesome.

Hey Mikey
05-08-2010, 10:41
NFA Tracker is what A LOT of people have turned to for transfer time info. I have placed 4 cans, 3 sbr's, 1 sbs and 1 mg into the mix. My Examiner is listed and from all my my transfers the time line looks accurate...about 86 days is my norm.

The info is based off actual individuals and the numbers they enter...and has NO ASSOCIATION with the BATFE.


http://nfatracker.com/reports.aspx

jpa
05-09-2010, 12:05
NFA Tracker is what A LOT of people have turned to for transfer time info. I have placed 4 cans, 3 sbr's, 1 sbs and 1 mg into the mix. My Examiner is listed and from all my my transfers the time line looks accurate...about 86 days is my norm.

The info is based off actual individuals and the numbers they enter...and has NO ASSOCIATION with the BATFE.


http://nfatracker.com/reports.aspx

That's an interesting enough site...it appears the bottlenecks occur when multiple examiners are on it (probably due to vacation or sick time off) or with certain individual examiners. I wanna know how the one guy averages a 20 day turnaround.

stooxie
05-09-2010, 12:52
Weird. My wait times have been substantially lower than what is reported, and I am doing nothing special that I know of.

-Stooxie

Thorazine
05-12-2010, 23:50
Two of my checks cleared 04/27.

One other should be clearing soon.

My dealer is supposed to have an average of 3-4 month turn around time on form fours.

We'll see. :supergrin:

r2kba
05-14-2010, 11:09
Two of my checks cleared 04/27.

One other should be clearing soon.

My dealer is supposed to have an average of 3-4 month turn around time on form fours.

We'll see. :supergrin:


In most cases this is typical unless you get an examiner that dosent work 5 days a week.:shocked:

stooxie
05-14-2010, 11:21
I just called the NFA hotline to check on my Shadow. Like clock work, went pending just under 4 weeks from check-cash. Should be exactly (ha!) six weeks until approval if my prior transfers are any indication. Very consistent.

Almost can't complain! :supergrin:

Now if only full autos were cheaper!

-Stooxie

BirdDog239
05-15-2010, 01:50
...Maybe I missed something, but why is your dealer charging you a transfer fee?...

I hope you're not disappointed with your Rock Creek Silencer....I can't find anything on them when searching the net. Tell us more about it....is it sealed or can it be taken apart and cleaned? Is it made of Aluminum or Stainless Steel?
What's your host weapon? ...

Good luck and continue to keep us posted!

The Dealer is charging a fee because he sells his suppressors at dealer price. He has to make his money. He offered to order what ever I wanted but he did steer me away from the YHM Mite

This is the only information I could find on the web about Rock Creek Silencer. The dealer highly recommended them. http://www.wetzelarms.com/Rock%20Creek%20Gun%20Services.htm
I kind of feel stupid because I don't know if it is steel or aluminum. I know it is 5.5 inches long and .75 inches in diameter. He told me that it was a sealed can and said I should clean it with Simple Green, and by clean he meant soak.

My host firearm is a BuckMark.
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff59/mrodriguez239/Shooting/DSC_0348.jpg

Like I said earlier that this is my first suppressor and I really don't know much about them.

Thanks again for the support.

BirdDog239
05-15-2010, 02:00
Hey Edrobert

Is it really a problem if the tax stamps start to multiply?

BirdDog239
05-15-2010, 02:16
+1 on silencertalk.

+1 on stamp multiplication problems!

BirdDog, the process is cumbersome, but if you look around you'll see that you're already very lucky if your local LEO signs off with no issues. Lots of people don't have that "luxury" even when no state or local ordinance prevents them from doing it...
-Stooxie

I really do feel lucky that it was so easy for me to get someone to sign off on the paperwork. If this goes smoothly I might be considering a suppressor for my AR and I promise not to be cheap when I make a selection.

OldArcher
05-21-2010, 23:02
One year- to the day, between submitting required paperwork and appropriate checks, to picking-up my three Gemtech HVTs and one Blackside.

Our tax dollars at work(?)...

OldArcher, out...

stooxie
05-22-2010, 05:58
One year- to the day, between submitting required paperwork and appropriate checks, to picking-up my three Gemtech HVTs and one Blackside.

Our tax dollars at work(?)...

OldArcher, out...

Mind if I ask how much of that time was spent waiting for the ATF approval?

-Stooxie

dday27
05-28-2010, 09:08
YHM Cobra M2 for 9mm

Check cashed 11/09/09
Went pending 01/07/10
Still waiting due to an error on form by seller..
6 months now

Looks like even longer wait, Thinking about a refund...

Finally got can yesterday, Long wait

r2kba
05-30-2010, 09:45
Finally got can yesterday, Long wait


:needspics:

dday27
06-02-2010, 11:05
Finally got can yesterday, Long wait

Here it is

BirdDog239
08-20-2010, 17:01
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff59/mrodriguez239/Shooting/IMAG0043.jpg