.380 Carry Ammo [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Beware Owner
01-30-2010, 12:29
What do you think is best suited for backup carry ammo in this caliber?

MTS532
01-30-2010, 12:31
What do you think is best suited for backup carry ammo in this caliber?

For adequate penetration, I would probably use FMJ.

Beware Owner
01-30-2010, 12:35
Any favorite brand/weight?

CanyonMan
01-30-2010, 13:01
Use a 9mm as your minimum. your life depends on it.
If for some reason you just "have to " use the 380. Use the heaviest FMJ you can find that reliably works in your gun. But again, I would NOT reccomend a 380 for SD. A little G26 9mil with some 147gr JHP's or 124gr +p GD's would be a world better than the 380. Mouse guns are for just that, rats and mice and snakes... ;)


Stay safe
Good luck.



CanyonMan

mteagle1
01-30-2010, 13:55
Use a 9mm as your minimum. your life depends on it.
If for some reason you just "have to " use the 380. Use the heaviest FMJ you can find that reliably works in your gun. But again, I would NOT reccomend a 380 for SD. A little G26 9mil with some 147gr JHP's or 124gr +p GD's would be a world better than the 380. Mouse guns are for just that, rats and mice and snakes... ;)

Stay safe
Good luck.

CanyonMan
A .380 in the pocket beats hell out of a 9mm in the safe. Or a .32 NAA in the pocket beats the 13 round XD45 at home. You named the 3 things most seen on the streets so I guess the mouse gun is ok after all.

ABNAK
01-30-2010, 14:01
Remington 102gr Golden Saber. Heaviest JHP in that caliber. In fact, one of the heaviest loads in that caliber period.

After penetrating 4 layers of a bath towel and into my swimming pool from a Ruger LCP.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd187/ABNAK/im000482.jpg

glockman23
01-30-2010, 14:02
If I owned a .380, this is what I would carry:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=127

JHP's won't expand/penetrate properly. You want a hot, heavy ball ammo IMO.

.380 is a perfectly good SD caliber for pocket carry, BTW. Of course a 9mm is better, and a shotgun is better than that, and a tactical missile is better than that, and a blah, blah, blah.

Use the Buffalo Bore and unload into the face or spine. Repeat as needed.

USAglock
01-30-2010, 14:17
What do you think is best suited for backup carry ammo in this caliber?

FMJ or Hornady CD

stengun
01-30-2010, 14:37
Howdy,

I have an old AMT .380 Backup SA and I rarely carry it but when I do it is loaded with a limited production 115gr JHP ( The company went out of business back in the mid 90's). It runs about 975ft/sec out of my gun and will expand to around .50" and will shoot through 2 water jugs stuff full of soaked newspaper. I shot a big female coyote broad sided with this load at about 25' and it shot all the way through her rt shouder and come out her lt shoulder and kept going. she ran about 50' and died.

I'm betting/hoping that 5 or 6rds wwill stop a BG.

The key to stopping power with a .380ACP is to shoot all the way through the BG.

Paul

FinnFanatic
01-30-2010, 16:20
If I owned a .380, this is what I would carry:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=127

JHP's won't expand/penetrate properly. You want a hot, heavy ball ammo IMO.

.380 is a perfectly good SD caliber for pocket carry, BTW. Of course a 9mm is better, and a shotgun is better than that, and a tactical missile is better than that, and a blah, blah, blah.

Use the Buffalo Bore and unload into the face or spine. Repeat as needed.

Well put. That being said, I use Winchester FMJ in my KelTec .380.

CanyonMan
01-30-2010, 16:50
A .380 in the pocket beats hell out of a 9mm in the safe. Or a .32 NAA in the pocket beats the 13 round XD45 at home. You named the 3 things most seen on the streets so I guess the mouse gun is ok after all.


I don't leave my carry gun in the safe when I go to town Hoss. I got it on me.

I named nothing. I called the 380 a mouse gun. Your correct, the rest are mouse guns as well. You will find a ton of folks in the city with the (380, 32's 25's and 22's) in their pockets.

Your correct again. If you want something to help get you killed, carry one, that's OK, as you say

And if they all jump off a bridge, are you going to follow suit ?

I am not trying to atttack any one. He!!, I'm trying to save your life.
When you have been shot, or have shot others, come back and tell me your experiences. I am simply (without trying to share mine, and would rather not), trying to tell the OP it is not a wise thing to carry.

Let me say it again. Not a wise idea. I don't care how convienent it is. I carry a 1911 45acp when in the city, and any one can carry a small G27 or G26. OR G23, G30 or the like.

But no, people look at these little pop guns and say, wow this will fit in my pants pocket perfectly, it won't bother me. Then after they have been attacked and if they survived, they wish to God they had blown some good holes through their attacker. This is not going to happen with the mouse guns.

If your a cop and have to have super deep concealment, and have ben trained in the art knowing how to kill men. Most cops aren't. Then I can understand that. But the average Joe is a walking corpse already, thing he will handle the violent banger after his billfold, or the two violent dudes, and wow what if there are three.... As you go down, I wonder if your last thought will be. But my little gun sure was light and fit in my britches well ? !

Please do not be fooled by all the poor folks on the planet singing the praise of the mouse guns. If you just GOT TO carry it for a BUG and a larger caliber for your primary, that is altogether something else. But primary carry. Please don't.

Example: "Well it is more convient to just walk out to the mail box with it, or run right quick down to the ma and pa store, etc etc.

Well, let me ask you this. Cannot an attacker weighing 250 #'s and stoned attack you from the bushes while you get your mail ? You mean down at the ma and pa store, there is NO chance of a couple of crazies who don't even give a dang about bein shot can't jump you?

A heavy can of beans to the forhead would serve you better than a few mouse gun rounds sprayed all over the body from a shaky hand. If your going to even miss COM, would you not rather do it with a larger caliber?

Am I being a tad strong with ya.. Perhaps. I did that with my kids growing up when I knew what I was telling them would keep them on the right path and out of harms way on down the line...


You do what ya want to.

I am suggesting to ya I wouldn't do it. ;)


Good luck out there.




CanyonMan

CanyonMan
01-30-2010, 17:00
Remington 102gr Golden Saber. Heaviest JHP in that caliber. In fact, one of the heaviest loads in that caliber period.

After penetrating 4 layers of a bath towel and into my swimming pool from a Ruger LCP.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd187/ABNAK/im000482.jpg



Not being smart man, but if you are attacked by bath towles and a swimming pool your bullets will all look this way. Go out and shoot that same round into a pile of (green bones), and a gut pile from you local slaughterhouse covered with a shirt and coat, and then tell me what it did, what it looked like and the damage it caused.

These guns are last ditch effort guns in case the 'primary carry gun goes south."


Stay safe.



CanyonMan

ABNAK
01-30-2010, 17:26
Not being smart man, but if you are attacked by bath towles and a swimming pool your bullets will all look this way. Go out and shoot that same round into a pile of (green bones), and a gut pile from you local slaughterhouse covered with a shirt and coat, and then tell me what it did, what it looked like and the damage it caused.

These guns are last ditch effort guns in case the 'primary carry gun goes south."


Stay safe.



CanyonMan

I didn't necessarily advocate it as a primary carry gun. The OP asked what round for .380 and I answered. And yeah yeah, a block of gelatin wearing denim or jugs filled with wet newspaper will be dead too right? I agree 100% with the "slaughterhouse" angle---I'd love an opportunity to try out different loads on real meat. I'll bet your .45 slugs wouldn't look the same either. In fact, I've never seen pics of bullets recovered from real shootings that look anything like gel test results.

FWIW I test all my bullets the same way: 4 layers of bath towel into the pool. If nothing else it gives a standard by which I can see how various calibers/brands work (or don't). That way they've all been through the same-o same-o.

Oh BTW, 155gr Winchester Rangers went completely through the bottom of my pool, about 48" of water after the 4 layer towel test. Overpenetration ya think?

glockman23
01-30-2010, 17:32
Keep lugging around your 1911, CanyonMan. More power to you.

But the thread wasn't called "I'm a little kid and I need a lecture on what caliber to carry."

It's about which .380 load to put in his carry gun.

CanyonMan
01-30-2010, 17:41
I didn't necessarily advocate it as a primary carry gun. The OP asked what round for .380 and I answered. And yeah yeah, a block of gelatin wearing denim or jugs filled with wet newspaper will be dead too right? I agree 100% with the "slaughterhouse" angle---I'd love an opportunity to try out different loads on real meat. I'll bet your .45 slugs wouldn't look the same either. In fact, I've never seen pics of bullets recovered from real shootings that look anything like gel test results.

FWIW I test all my bullets the same way: 4 layers of bath towel into the pool. If nothing else it gives a standard by which I can see how various calibers/brands work (or don't). That way they've all been through the same-o same-o.

Oh BTW, 155gr Winchester Rangers went completely through the bottom of my pool, about 48" of water after the 4 layer towel test. Overpenetration ya think?



Hey cool.

YES, my FMJ's out of the 45acp, and the GS's and GD's look a tad deformed after these test on the ranch here, but they sure made big holes and got a good deal of penetrtion. I understand that not every one can have the place or means to run test like this bud, just pointing out to ya again. The water test will no wise give you the answers you need . And in a mouse gun a JHP is absolutely not even a consideration....

Sorry about your pool !




CanyonMan

KiloBravo
01-30-2010, 17:46
While I only carry my Kel-Tec P3AT on occasion in my weak side front pocket, it is a back up to the 1911 on my hip.

In my .380, I personally choose and like the 90 gr. Federal Hydrashocks. They seem to cycle well and I have gotten pretty consistent results with my un-scientific testing. YMMV.

CanyonMan
01-30-2010, 17:48
Ive answered the OP's question several times i believe... "if you got to" carry FMJ's NOT jhp's..

Never seen so many folks get Po'd at a guy trying to save their life..

It's ya'lls life. Use it well..

BTW.. I will keep packin around my 45acp, or 40s&w, or 10mm, and some day we may be in the same place at the same time, and If we have to use our weapons, you'll get a warm fuzzy feeling when I save your butt.

Just a thought.


Stay safe



CanyonMan

CanyonMan
01-30-2010, 17:58
What do you think is best suited for backup carry ammo in this caliber?


Hey bud. I've known you on GT for a spell now. To be very direct about your question.

I would strongly suggest the Buffalo Bore. That would be it.
Here is a link for ya. http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=29


Good shooting amigo.




CanyonMan

KiloBravo
01-30-2010, 17:58
Ive answered the OP's question several times i believe... "if you got to" carry FMJ's NOT jhp's..

Never seen so many folks get Po'd at a guy trying to save their life..

It's ya'lls life. Use it well..

BTW.. I will keep packin around my 45acp, or 40s&w, or 10mm, and some day we may be in the same place at the same time, and If we have to use our weapons, you'll get a warm fuzzy feeling when I save your butt.

Just a thought.


Stay safe



CanyonMan

Without trying to start a caliber war...that is one of the best things I have heard all day. :rofl:

I am on bored with the "Shoot the biggest, most powerful gun you can shoot accurately and comfortably." I realize that will vary from person to person. For me though, that is a full sized 1911 and two 10 round mags loaded up with a good quality JHP round. :supergrin:

ABNAK
01-30-2010, 18:14
Hey bud. I've known you on GT for a spell now. To be very direct about your question.

I would strongly suggest the Buffalo Bore. That would be it.
Here is a link for ya. http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=29


Good shooting amigo.




CanyonMan



Actually, if I was going to recommend a .380 "heavy" load might as well go with the Golden Saber as it still weighs 102gr (more than the Buffalo Bore) and even if it doesn't open up it is still then a 102gr FMJ right? Weight is weight if you discount the possibility of expansion. If you're lucky a piece or two of that hard brass jacket *might* peel back and do a little cutting so might as well stick with the Golden Saber IF you use anything in .380.

glockman23
01-30-2010, 18:17
Wow, that's exactly what I said! Thanks for the link... again.

Hopefully you won't have to save my pansy ass with your big man .45, as I'll be staying out of neighborhoods where I feel I need to carry a full-sized .45.

Hey bud. I've known you on GT for a spell now. To be very direct about your question.

I would strongly suggest the Buffalo Bore. That would be it.
Here is a link for ya. http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=29


Good shooting amigo.




CanyonMan

glockman23
01-30-2010, 18:27
Actually, if I was going to recommend a .380 "heavy" load might as well go with the Golden Saber as it still weighs 102gr (more than the Buffalo Bore) and even if it doesn't open up it is still then a 102gr FMJ right? Weight is weight if you discount the possibility of expansion. If you're lucky a piece or two of that hard brass jacket *might* peel back and do a little cutting so might as well stick with the Golden Saber IF you use anything in .380.

No, if it opens up it won't penetrate as far. Hence not using JHP's in lower-powered calibers. From what I've seen anyway, expansion/deformation is minimal and inconsistant. The Buffalo Bore is hot as balls and WILL exit through the back of the BG. 7 rounds of hot .380 ball in a paper plate sized area in the COM area of the body is roughly equivalent to a 00 buckshot load to the chest from a 12 gauge from a distance. It is certainly no joke. Train to pull the trigger as fast as you can at 7 yards.

Retseh
01-30-2010, 18:30
No matter how many times we tell people not to bother, there's always some idiot who jumps into these 380 or 32 threads and lectures the OP about how he should carry a FAL with 300 rounds.

Personally I alternate between Gold Dots, Hydrashocks, and Santa Barbara FMJ in .380ACP.

CanyonMan
01-30-2010, 18:33
Actually, if I was going to recommend a .380 "heavy" load might as well go with the Golden Saber as it still weighs 102gr (more than the Buffalo Bore) and even if it doesn't open up it is still then a 102gr FMJ right? Weight is weight if you discount the possibility of expansion. If you're lucky a piece or two of that hard brass jacket *might* peel back and do a little cutting so might as well stick with the Golden Saber IF you use anything in .380.


Wrong. In blue.

The JHP will clog and yes, act some what like a FMJ, but the clog causes it to slow down and now you have lost penetration..... Something you do not want to lose in any caliber/round, especially in a mouse gun.

Again, A JHP is a real bad choice for 380 and down.



Stay safe



CanyonMan

CanyonMan
01-30-2010, 18:47
Wow, that's exactly what I said! Thanks for the link... again.

Hopefully you won't have to save my pansy ass with your big man .45, as I'll be staying out of neighborhoods where I feel I need to carry a full-sized .45.


Well bud, I'm not much for going to the big city. I have to at times to help out a realitive. And in closing here for me, I hope I never have to save ya either.

If I do, perhaps it will knock that "big man 45" type 'sarcastic speech' chip off your shoulder as well. ;)


Adios for me.



CanyonMan

CanyonMan
01-30-2010, 18:54
No, if it opens up it won't penetrate as far. Hence not using JHP's in lower-powered calibers. From what I've seen anyway, expansion/deformation is minimal and inconsistant. The Buffalo Bore is hot as balls and WILL exit through the back of the BG. 7 rounds of hot .380 ball in a paper plate sized area in the COM area of the body is roughly equivalent to a 00 buckshot load to the chest from a 12 gauge from a distance. It is certainly no joke. Train to pull the trigger as fast as you can at 7 yards.

My Gosh I was going to quit and will after this OP... But this is down right ridiculous to say the very least. Man you ( glockman23 )better stay in the house or please do not carry a gun if you really believe this BS. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


I know you will more than likely come back. I'm done. This is waaaay to goofy.


Edit note**** Sorry Beware owner. Did not know a pissin match was goin to blow in.
Stay safe amigo


CM

glockman23
01-30-2010, 18:56
Knew you'd like that one.:tongueout:


Standard load 00 buckshot is .33 caliber and penetrates on average 14-18 inches. There's usually around 8 pellets.

The Buffalo Bore FMJ +P penetrates up to 20 inches + and most .380's hold about 7 rounds. Maybe you should read up on the stats for the rounds "you suggested" for the OP to carry.

:dunno: Sorry, Pardner.


My Gosh I was going to quit and will after this OP... But this is down right ridiculous to say the very least. Man you better stay in the house or please do not carry a gun if you really believe this BS. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


I know you will more than likely come back. I'm done. This is waaaay to goofy.


Edit note**** Sorry Beware owner. Did not know a pisin match was goin to blow in.
Stay safe amigo


CM

glockman23
01-30-2010, 19:16
And no, I am not advocating a .380 in replacement of a shotgun in the house or anywhere else, so we don't have to get into that.:upeyes:

remat
01-30-2010, 19:59
I have never seen FMJ offered in anything other than 95gr.

Rather than argue the semantics of which is better: 88gr to 102gr I would say it is far more important to find one that functions reliably and accurately in your pistol (it is only a 14gr spread).

A hit with any of the above is far better than a miss with anything (or not having a pistol at all).

regards

glocksterr
01-30-2010, 21:02
wow, just wow!

ssilvestro
01-30-2010, 22:42
Wow, that's exactly what I said! Thanks for the link... again.

Hopefully you won't have to save my pansy ass with your big man .45, as I'll be staying out of neighborhoods where I feel I need to carry a full-sized .45.


Well bud, I'm not much for going to the big city. I have to at times to help out a realitive. And in closing here for me, I hope I never have to save ya either.

If I do, perhaps it will knock that "big man 45" type 'sarcastic speech' chip off your shoulder as well. ;)


Adios for me.



CanyonMan

Jesus Christ, I wish we could all sit around our ranch and play cowboy in the year 2010-- I know my life would be peachier! I mean, what are you going to be jumped by on a friggin' ranch anyway, a tumbleweed? Gimme a break, "hoss," grow up..

BTW, how the hell does the old boy get internet access on the ranch??

glockman23
01-30-2010, 23:39
People are crazy. Remember, carry a .45, .40 or 9mm because people could jump out at you at any time from the bushes and assault you in the middle of nowhere.

If you shoot them with anything else they're just going to be really mad, as everyone is so whacked out on meth and crack they won't even feel a .380 slug hit them.

So anyway....I like the Buffalo Bore.....

:rofl:

Sorry to the OP, I shouldn't have entertained any of that nonsense.

glocksterr
01-30-2010, 23:41
CM, im sorry to see these amigo's got you so fired up...


im not looking to start a fight or nothin' but if i put 3-4 .50 cal holes in a ******bag with my .380 JHP you gonna' have to be one determined hombre to not stop the attack.


JM2C!

glockman23
01-30-2010, 23:56
You threatinin' me with a .380, pilgrim?:cowboy:

CanyonMan
01-31-2010, 00:04
CM, im sorry to see these amigo's got you so fired up...


im not looking to start a fight or nothin' but if i put 3-4 .50 cal holes in ya' with my .380 JHP you gonna' have to be one determined hombre to not stop the attack.


JM2C!



Man you got it all wrong. I am not fired up. I pay no attention to fools.....




stay safe


CM

glockman23
01-31-2010, 00:07
Oh, snap. He's back.

Seriously though, man. It's just an internet forum. I'm just poking fun. Post whatever you want. It's just one opinion against another. No hard feelings?

Man you got it all wrong. I am not fired up. I pay no attention to fools.....




stay safe


CM

glockman23
01-31-2010, 00:13
A .380 in the pocket is better than a .45 in the safe. A .45 in the belt is better than a .380 in the pocket! Can we at least agree on that?

panzer1
01-31-2010, 00:15
I don't leave my carry gun in the safe when I go to town Hoss. I got it on me.

I named nothing. I called the 380 a mouse gun. Your correct, the rest are mouse guns as well. You will find a ton of folks in the city with the (380, 32's 25's and 22's) in their pockets.

Your correct again. If you want something to help get you killed, carry one, that's OK, as you say

And if they all jump off a bridge, are you going to follow suit ?

I am not trying to atttack any one. He!!, I'm trying to save your life.
When you have been shot, or have shot others, come back and tell me your experiences. I am simply (without trying to share mine, and would rather not), trying to tell the OP it is not a wise thing to carry.

Let me say it again. Not a wise idea. I don't care how convienent it is. I carry a 1911 45acp when in the city, and any one can carry a small G27 or G26. OR G23, G30 or the like.

But no, people look at these little pop guns and say, wow this will fit in my pants pocket perfectly, it won't bother me. Then after they have been attacked and if they survived, they wish to God they had blown some good holes through their attacker. This is not going to happen with the mouse guns.

If your a cop and have to have super deep concealment, and have ben trained in the art knowing how to kill men. Most cops aren't. Then I can understand that. But the average Joe is a walking corpse already, thing he will handle the violent banger after his billfold, or the two violent dudes, and wow what if there are three.... As you go down, I wonder if your last thought will be. But my little gun sure was light and fit in my britches well ? !

Please do not be fooled by all the poor folks on the planet singing the praise of the mouse guns. If you just GOT TO carry it for a BUG and a larger caliber for your primary, that is altogether something else. But primary carry. Please don't.

Example: "Well it is more convient to just walk out to the mail box with it, or run right quick down to the ma and pa store, etc etc.

Well, let me ask you this. Cannot an attacker weighing 250 #'s and stoned attack you from the bushes while you get your mail ? You mean down at the ma and pa store, there is NO chance of a couple of crazies who don't even give a dang about bein shot can't jump you?

A heavy can of beans to the forhead would serve you better than a few mouse gun rounds sprayed all over the body from a shaky hand. If your going to even miss COM, would you not rather do it with a larger caliber?

Am I being a tad strong with ya.. Perhaps. I did that with my kids growing up when I knew what I was telling them would keep them on the right path and out of harms way on down the line...


You do what ya want to.

I am suggesting to ya I wouldn't do it. ;)


Good luck out there.




CanyonManI am with you on this. Thats why I carry(most of the time) a sig,226 in 40s&w or 357sig. I went with the 226 over the 229 because if I can carry a 229 I can carry a 226 is only a 1/2in longer.If not that then my sig,220combat 45acp or my para tack-four LDA 14rds of 45acp. Sometimes I will carry a 9mm(cz,75) 380 as a bug only.What do you think of the 357siground??

glocksterr
01-31-2010, 01:03
Man you got it all wrong. I am not fired up. I pay no attention to fools.....




stay safe


CM




well i hope im no fool. all things being equal a bigger gun wins!


:ambulance:

glocksterr
01-31-2010, 01:07
You threatinin' me with a .380, pilgrim?:cowboy:


hee,hee,

no man my bad. im not hatin' on anybody.



especially CM with his cannon.

:supergrin:

DocKWL
01-31-2010, 06:23
Read THIS (http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19914)

happyguy
01-31-2010, 07:48
What do you think is best suited for backup carry ammo in this caliber?

For a primary or backup I wouldn't go below a 9mm.

I reserve my Kel-tek P3AT for the role of hideout and I usually load it with Hornady JHP's because they don't expand much.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

Iceman cHucK
01-31-2010, 10:03
I NEVER carry a 380 as a primary, only as a backup, and even that is rare. When I do, I have my PPKS loaded with AE 95g fmj. Would never carry a jhp in this sub-minor caliber! You need all the penetration possible. My backup of choice is a jframe Smith with 158lswhp.

Can you just imagine the scenario where you are suddenly facing several armed assailants and you try to reach deep into your pee soaked pocket for your Keltec 380? When you finally manage to get it out, I'd suggest you throw it at one of them or offer to sell it to them and then run as fast as you can! :embarassed:

glocksterr
01-31-2010, 10:15
Can you just imagine the scenario where you are suddenly facing several armed assailants and you try to reach deep into your pee soaked pocket for your Keltec 380? When you finally manage to get it out, I'd suggest you throw it at one of them or offer to sell it to them and then run as fast as you can! :embarassed:


no i cant imagine one where a .380 would make much diff than a 1911. your odds are much better winning the lottery than facing 3 armed adversaries.



truth be told i think it would matters more how good you can shoot the gun be it .380 or a 1911.


:whistling:

glockman23
01-31-2010, 12:12
Don't be silly, if you had your 1911 on you you could magically bend the bullet to kill them all at once before they could get a shot off.

Like in that movie "Wanted". :dunno:


In that situation, no matter what gun I had on me they wouldn't know I was armed until I started shooting at them while RUNNING AWAY. 3 armed guys vs 1 armed you= closed casket funeral if you stay and fight.

no i cant imagine one where a .380 would make much diff than a 1911. your odds are much better winning the lottery than facing 3 armed adversaries.



truth be told i think it would matters more how good you can shoot the gun be it .380 or a 1911.


:whistling:

Darkangel1846
01-31-2010, 12:35
Well I carry some very nice Personal Defense Federal Hydra-shok JHPs....1000fps...at close range they will do the job. Can't tell you the number of shootings I've seen in the last few years where the shootee is dead from a punk little .380. But yes I would like to pack my 9mm, or .40, or my over rated .45, and especially my 10mm. but you just can't seem to fit those into your pocket.

glocksterr
01-31-2010, 13:30
But yes I would like to pack my 9mm, or .40, or my over rated .45, and especially my 10mm. but you just can't seem to fit those into your pocket.


not unless you got deep pockets like CM>

:supergrin:

mteagle1
01-31-2010, 14:13
CanyonMan,
I would love to be able to carry to strap my 45 or even 9mm on my hip to go to town. But how about those times when you (actually me) are wearing t shirt, elastic waist shorts and tennis shoes. I have a pocket for my mouse gun but not a belt to hold up the big iron. So does it mean that I have to get dressed in 3 layers of clothing just to go buy a soda? Consider that you are advocating that the rest of us need to fit your mold and yes there are people around here who would not be seen dead with out their cowboy boots. Unless of course the homeless guy got to the body first.

moncoacp
01-31-2010, 14:44
I carry my AR-15 with a 30 round mag in a Nemesis Pocket Holster in case the guy jumping out of the bushes has a 1911. I find it very comfortable except when driving. I am 8' 10" tall so have very deep pockets. I used to pocket carry a Laws Rocket, but too many women were hitting on me.

nate1865
01-31-2010, 18:58
I use the Remington FMJ, but in smaller calibers and small pistols, often you need to play around a bit with ammo to find a good pairing.

I've also found smaller calibers don't feed JHP rounds as well, especially my Keltec P-3AT. The edge seems to catch on the feed ramp.

So, I stick to FMJ rounds, the Remingtons.

Beware Owner
02-01-2010, 14:20
Wow, guys, thanks. My main carry is a mean 32 or 30, loaded with the GS and GD, always with an extra mag. I just got a good deal on a .380, and it couldn't hurt to have a backup, which I doubt I'll ever need, but it's about being prepared, isn't it? If, given the situation, I have to use the .380, you best believe it'll be more than making sweet love to that trigger! I guess the biggest problem is that there isn't much real meat testing done, that would really take the guesswork out of all this.

Gunnut 45/454
02-01-2010, 16:36
When I carry my Bersa .380 it's filled with 90 gr XTP's going 1024 FPS-reloads! These are both accurate and they have expanded in every test I've done! If I just want penertration I shoot my 105 gr cast loads!:supergrin:

Beware Owner
02-01-2010, 16:41
When I carry my Bersa .380 it's filled with 90 gr XTP's going 1024 FPS-reloads! These are both accurate and they have expanded in every test I've done! If I just want penertration I shoot my 105 gr cast loads!:supergrin:

What were your expansion tests like?

glocksterr
02-01-2010, 17:29
BO, dont know if you can make heads or tail of this mess we left you.




:whistling:



it would help to know more what is available to you but if you looking for names i will give you a few of my top picks.



good choice to move away from the other smaller cals....

when your talking those cabilers i would stick to CM advice. :cool:




the two i have the most faith in being able to git' er' done are corbon DPX and the gold dot loaded by your choice.

there are a few other top names that fall in a group behind those.

diode
02-01-2010, 19:05
Well, I have to admit I have learned more in this thread about sub-caliber ammo than was known to me before. My first .380 was the AMT almost 35 years ago, and I quickly decided that it was a FMJ design. Years have past and I now have a KelTec .380, a remarkable weapon as it always functions with a variety of bullet shapes and loads. My current favorite is the Corbon DPX but I am willing to listen to the Buffalo Bore 102 gr LFN as it does make sense. Went to the supplied link and the price is within the realm of SD ammo. Thought about doing an 'every-other one' in the mag with the Corbon DPX, sort of a 'Hail Mary' approach to a bad situation. This is why I like this forum, although roudy at times, the info is here if you sift thru it.

jb

swannick
02-01-2010, 19:39
All I carry in my .380 is Hydrashoks. And yes in a perfect world everyone should carry the largest caliber possible...there are just times when it isn't possible. The idea that mouse guns aren't effective is ludicrous. A .22 can kill you just as easily as a .45. I always have something with me...which is better than nothing at all. The element of surprise can be more effective than the size of your caliber. Just glad this is America and we all have the ability to choose what we like.

Beware Owner
02-01-2010, 20:21
Well, like I said, I mainly carry a .357 Sig or a .45 ACP, not a mousegun. When they get ya, it'll hurt more than a little bit. Got a deal on one, it's a backup. I just wonder if in real life situations, how well do HP's penetrate and expand versus FMJ's or FP's. I think that the next evolutionary step to this great site would be to do some real life (dead) meat tests. I'm sure we have enough sanely crazy people here to pull it off with all the money we spend on guns, ammo, reloading, and casting...

ABNAK
02-01-2010, 20:50
Well, like I said, I mainly carry a .357 Sig or a .45 ACP, not a mousegun. When they get ya, it'll hurt more than a little bit. Got a deal on one, it's a backup. I just wonder if in real life situations, how well do HP's penetrate and expand versus FMJ's or FP's. I think that the next evolutionary step to this great site would be to do some real life (dead) meat tests. I'm sure we have enough sanely crazy people here to pull it off with all the money we spend on guns, ammo, reloading, and casting...

You'd basically need a few beef or pork roasts end to end. Preferably room temp (left out for a while) as I've read cold meat reacts differently than a human's 98.6F flesh. Probably close enough though as compared to gelatin. Even more ideally would be a side of beef where you could shoot, say, 10 rds into it and compare ones that hit just meat and ones that hit ribs on the way in.

Beware Owner
02-01-2010, 20:54
You'd basically need a few beef or pork roasts end to end. Preferably room temp (left out for a while) as I've read cold meat reacts differently than a human's 98.6F flesh. Probably close enough though as compared to gelatin. Even more ideally would be a side of beef where you could shoot, say, 10 rds into it and compare ones that hit just meat and ones that hit ribs on the way in.

I don't think I can bring myself to destroying such fine cuts if not with my own teeth! It'd take a stronger man than I to do that. :supergrin:

CanyonMan
02-01-2010, 21:00
Well, like I said, I mainly carry a .357 Sig or a .45 ACP, not a mousegun. When they get ya, it'll hurt more than a little bit. Got a deal on one, it's a backup. I just wonder if in real life situations, how well do HP's penetrate and expand versus FMJ's or FP's. I think that the next evolutionary step to this great site would be to do some real life (dead) meat tests. I'm sure we have enough sanely crazy people here to pull it off with all the money we spend on guns, ammo, reloading, and casting...



Bro.. I tell ya again... In all honesty. The JHP's in a 380 are not worth spit. If you got to carry that thing, please use a heavy FMJ. That is to answer question One. BTW, it will not go through the COM and bust out the back side like some have said. Not even the BB ammo. Don't listen to the arm chair condo dwellers. ;)

Next:

We will try and get it done for ya (the media testing I've talked about here we have done many times), this summer Lord willing. Lots goin on out here, but I will try to "show ya" the diff between the fmj and the jhp's in the 380 in some real world media.... And in the 40, 45acp and 9mil and 10mil.

I hope I did not make to big a mess of your thread. You know me , and that was NOT 'my' intent.. New neighbors showed up and twisted everthing I said all to he!!.

We'll see what we can do later this summer. I got a truck load of folks wanting me to do these test, so we will do the best we can time permitting.

bless ya
Stay safe Amigo !



CanyonMan

Beware Owner
02-01-2010, 21:12
Well, like I said, I mainly carry a .357 Sig or a .45 ACP, not a mousegun. When they get ya, it'll hurt more than a little bit. Got a deal on one, it's a backup. I just wonder if in real life situations, how well do HP's penetrate and expand versus FMJ's or FP's. I think that the next evolutionary step to this great site would be to do some real life (dead) meat tests. I'm sure we have enough sanely crazy people here to pull it off with all the money we spend on guns, ammo, reloading, and casting...



Bro.. I tell ya again... In all honesty. The JHP's in a 380 are not worth spit. If you got to carry that thing, please use a heavy FMJ. That is to answer question One. BTW, it will not go through the COM and bust out the back side like some have said. Not even the BB ammo. Don't listen to the arm chair condo dwellers. ;)

Next:

We will try and get it done for ya (the media testing I've talked about here we have done many times), this summer Lord willing. Lots goin on out here, but I will try to "show ya" the diff between the fmj and the jhp's in the 380 in some real world media.... And in the 40, 45acp and 9mil and 10mil.

I hope I did not make to big a mess of your thread. You know me , and that was NOT 'my' intent.. New neighbors showed up and twisted everthing I said all to he!!.

We'll see what we can do later this summer. I got a truck load of folks wanting me to do these test, so we will do the best we can time permitting.

bless ya
Stay safe Amigo !



CanyonMan

I think you're a man on the frontier. Honestly. I think we've gotten some order out of this chaos.

I know for a fact that some fat, ribs, muscle and bones, will make a HUGE difference in how people see their "media" tests in REAL LIFE. Problem is that we're all subject to conjecture until and if that happens. I'm sure we'll find that some things we thought were silver bullets to be nothing fantasies built on self conceived realities, and vice versa. We need to change our scientific approach to terminal ballistics sooner than later, and I think we have the people and resources in place, a simple test here and there, we put all our data/info together, and make something of it. We're GT, come on, man!

ABNAK
02-01-2010, 21:22
I've seen autopsy pics quite a while ago of recovered bullets. None of them looked like the purty gel tests. Strangely, if there was decent expansion it was on one side of the bullet, kinda lopsided. Most were partial expansions though.

Beware Owner
02-01-2010, 21:24
I've seen autopsy pics quite a while ago of recovered bullets. None of them looked like the purty gel tests. Strangely, if there was decent expansion it was on one side of the bullet, kinda lopsided. Most were partial expansions though.

Caliber/brand/weight/type specific?

glockman23
02-02-2010, 00:00
From Buffalo Bore's website:

1. Item 27A/20 is a 100gr. HARD cast bullet with a flat nose. It is traveling over 1,150 fps out of my 3.75 inch BDA (Browning Double Action). We've used a flash suppressed powder for all three of our 380 auto loads so that you wont be blinded by your own gunfire if you have to shoot in the dark and since around 95% of all civilian shootings in America occur in low light, the chances that your own gunfire will blind you while you are trying to save your life, are good - we've eliminated this variable by using flash suppressed powder. We've also chosen a flat nosed solid bullet. The flat on the nose ensures that the bullet will cut/smash its way through flesh and bone and do much more destruction than typical round nose FMJ bullets. Round nosed bullets tend to slip and slide through matter, doing little damage as opposed to a flat nosed bullet. The flat nose not only wounds much more than a round nosed bullet, but it actually keeps the penetration straight and thus deeper. Notice the below velocities recorded from my personal 380 auto pistols. These are real world guns and thus the speeds are realistic and not exaggerated speeds produced from laboratory test barrels. What you see with Buffalo Bore Ammo, is truly what you get in the "real world", where it matters. You can expect 20+ inches of straight-line penetration in flesh and bone with this load. If you are worried about over penetration with this load, DON'T! You chose to carry a tiny under-powered 380 auto pistol and the trade-off is that you are now going to have to stay alive with that pistol and over penetration will be the least of your worries if you end up needing this gun to save yourself or your family

Pretty much think that means a through-and-through wound. I don't see why this is so hard to believe. Happens all the time in ER's all over the country with FMJ rounds. :dunno:

ABNAK
02-02-2010, 08:54
Caliber/brand/weight/type specific?

IIRC it was a mix of calibers. Some of the pics were from "Handgun Stopping Power" by Marshall and Sanow. Of course none of the newest JHP's would have been in those pics from way back.