Broken AK [Archive] - Glock Talk

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machman
01-31-2010, 21:43
Yep, I was at the range today and my MAK90 bolt broke on me. I have had this gun for 11 trouble free years. It has been 100%. Where is a good place to get another bolt? Just for fun, I tried the bolt out of my hungarian and it wont work. I guess that the Norincos are a little different in many ways.

Here is a photo of the part and a photo of the gun.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3522/img1050u.jpg
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1931/img0076zk.jpg

space_weazel
01-31-2010, 22:08
Holy crap. I need to go get me some extra bolts.

Another Miller
01-31-2010, 22:10
First off, you have a nice rifle.Never seen a mak look as good.About that breakage, You might want to get ahold of a smith and see why it happened.


Second, you might try a place called sarco.Ive done alot of business with them.They advertise in shotgun news,usually carry a large variety of surplus and modern parts.Im sure if they dont have it, they can direct you to someone who does.

GIockGuy24
01-31-2010, 23:27
The quality control of the steel parts in MAK90's and MAK91's seems to be a bit lower than older Chinese AK's. The reason the European bolt won't work is the camming angle on the bottom of the left bolt lug which is fitted / matched to the bullet guide. This is actually considered fittable if the angle is in the bolt lug is modified to match the bullet guide. It would be best to stay with a Chinese bolt though. There are a few versions of Chinese bolts, especially in MAK90's / MAK91's. The normal 7.62 Chinese bolt has a full length body and firing pin that is a floating giring pin. There is also a spring loaded firing pin nore common to Poly Tech's but also found in Norinco's and will interchange. The spring loaded firing pin bolts are also full length. In the last MAK90's / MAK91's the bolt was shortened to lighten the floating firing pin and a step was machined in the hammer face to mate to the shortened bolt. These late production versions have some of the worst heat treatment and bolts can break from being brittle or bolts and hammers can show high wear from being too soft. You'll need to have the headspace checked when replacing the bolt also. It is possible to mate a European bolt if the left bolt lug angle is changed to match the Chinese bullet guide. Some European bolts may already have the same angle. In some countries this angle was fitted to each rifle and in other countries this angle was kept as close to the same as possible for universal fit at the factory.

Check this link for a Chinese replacement bolt.

http://stores.polytechparts.com/StoreFront.bok

http://stores.polytechparts.com/-strse-AK-dsh-47-cln-Receiver-dsh-Parts/searchpath/54968593/start/11/total/25/Categories.bok

Bare bolt body

http://stores.polytechparts.com/-strse-432/Gas-Piston%2C-AKS/Detail.bok

Complete bolt assembly

http://stores.polytechparts.com/-strse-537/70-dsh-03-dsh-4C/Detail.bok

I recommend buying a complete bolt assembly so the parts will all fit. The price seems too expensive though. Maybe try to find a used one first.

The parts listed on our website are NOS (New Old Stock) originally manufactured by Poly Technologies, Inc. of China between 1986 and 1989. These were produced at State Arsenals 416 and 386 during that time and some parts should be compatible with later production MAK-90 rifles produced by China North Industries Corporation (NORINCO). We, however, only guarantee the proper fit and function of these parts on rifles imported by Keng's Firearms Specialty, Inc. between 1985 and 1989. Please note that PRC Type 56-pattern parts are not compatible with Russian, Hungarian, Romanian or Bulgarian-manufactured AK-pattern rifles, so these parts should not be used on rifles produced in those countries or on tooling imported from those countries.

The European bolt lugs can be different in size all the way around and may headspace completely differently.

RWBlue
01-31-2010, 23:29
Reliable SHTF, AK my *. Just kidding.

I think I would start with an Email to http://www.k-var.com/shop/home.php?cat=279

lfd1
02-01-2010, 04:52
Try Brownells. They advertise on this site.

my762buzz
02-01-2010, 06:14
Yep, I was at the range today and my MAK90 bolt broke on me. I have had this gun for 11 trouble free years. It has been 100%. Where is a good place to get another bolt? Just for fun, I tried the bolt out of my hungarian and it wont work. I guess that the Norincos are a little different in many ways.

Here is a photo of the part and a photo of the gun.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3522/img1050u.jpg
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1931/img0076zk.jpg


Who is the importer?
Does the bolt serial number match the receiver?

If its a CJA import that would be interesting.

USAglock
02-01-2010, 06:28
You could more than likely fix it with some JB weld

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=208056370&listingid=46078679

Hell it's an AK does it still work?

Just joking I hope you get it fixed soon.:wavey:

machman
02-01-2010, 13:08
Thanks for the responses and complements guys. All numbers on this gun match. I will check the importer stamp this evening.

Glockdude1
02-01-2010, 13:14
That is the first AK bolt I have seen that broke. About how many rounds have you put thru your rifle?

In my experience I have seen many AR & M16 bolts broken, but never a AK bolt.

:cool:

machman
02-01-2010, 13:17
I have put maybe 2000 rounds through it.

skanless
02-01-2010, 14:15
:wow: Never seen that befor.

machman
02-01-2010, 20:39
The best I can tell, the import label looks like this:

LABAND INC
RNKNKMA.NY
MADE IN CHINA

my762buzz
02-01-2010, 20:57
I have had a few gun smiths tell me they have seen this a few times.

I thought they were BSing me at the time.

Ben murray that makes the famous sks spring loaded firing pins has said he tested some chinese firing pins and found them way to soft.

The case colored norinco mak 90 trigger parts sort of makes it seem like they surface hardened mild steel. They still seem to work fine. The firingline oklahoma based AK milled receiver maker says he has a test gun made of his heat treated milled receiver with the rest of the parts being chinese and he as over 100,000 rounds through it without a part broken yet. Cochise a board member of glocktalk says his mak 90 parts-maadi receiver century hybrid has over 40,000 rounds without a parts breakage or cleaning/lubing. I think chinese arsenal quality control has varied over time and this shows up once in a while. Anyone notice the mak 90 bolts look like they are made of a stainless steel alloy rather than a conventional carbon steel variety?




MAK 90 bolt Its not mine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/DavePAL84/projects/AK3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/DavePAL84/projects/AK4.jpg

andyffer
02-01-2010, 23:14
Lancaster's lifetime warranty FTMFW

machman
02-02-2010, 07:05
Lancaster's lifetime warranty FTMFW

What does this mean? Is this a joke or what?

machman
02-02-2010, 07:07
I have had a few gun smiths tell me they have seen this a few times.

I thought they were BSing me at the time.

Ben murray that makes the famous sks spring loaded firing pins has said he tested some chinese firing pins and found them way to soft.

The case colored norinco mak 90 trigger parts sort of makes it seem like they surface hardened mild steel. They still seem to work fine. The firingline oklahoma based AK milled receiver maker says he has a test gun made of his heat treated milled receiver with the rest of the parts being chinese and he as over 100,000 rounds through it without a part broken yet. Cochise a board member of glocktalk says his mak 90 parts-maadi receiver century hybrid has over 40,000 rounds without a parts breakage or cleaning/lubing. I think chinese arsenal quality control has varied over time and this shows up once in a while. Anyone notice the mak 90 bolts look like they are made of a stainless steel alloy rather than a conventional carbon steel variety?




That one broke right where mine did. Can you put me in contact with the smith that you are talking about. I would like to know my best option for replacing this bolt.

Ronaldo
02-02-2010, 08:56
Interesting...

Sarco or Numrich Arms is an additional place to find replacement parts, though the bolt may require a bit of fitting.

Actually, this is the first time I have ever seen a major part break (other than springs) on an AK... I suspect a flaw in the heat-treating or an undetected crack when the part was manufactured.

Carlos, your opinion????

Ronaldo

machman
02-02-2010, 09:21
No luck with this part from Brownells, Numrich or Sarco.

Polytech has it but recomends buying the hole bolt($140)

I have thought about buying a whole bolt carrier with bolt from a parts kit....Like a Hungarian kit. What kind of problems will I run into if I try this?

deadday
02-02-2010, 09:39
A broken AK?? That's unpossible..

Glockdude1
02-02-2010, 09:45
No luck with this part from Brownells, Numrich or Sarco.

Polytech has it but recomends buying the hole bolt($140)

I have thought about buying a whole bolt carrier with bolt from a parts kit....Like a Hungarian kit. What kind of problems will I run into if I try this?

I would buy the Polytech bolt.

:cool:

machman
02-02-2010, 15:21
I just called Polutech and was told that they couldn't be certain that thier bolt will fit becuase of the different arenals that these guns were made. Also, more than likely, it will have to be fitted and once it is modified couldn't be returned if couldn't be made to work.

I may go this route once I have exhausted all other options.

my762buzz
02-02-2010, 15:36
That one broke right where mine did. Can you put me in contact with the smith that you are talking about. I would like to know my best option for replacing this bolt.


Pm sent

AustinTx
02-05-2010, 00:03
No luck with this part from Brownells, Numrich or Sarco.

Polytech has it but recomends buying the hole bolt($140)

I have thought about buying a whole bolt carrier with bolt from a parts kit....Like a Hungarian kit. What kind of problems will I run into if I try this?

I don't think the bolt carrier will matter. I think the trunnion and bolt make-up determines the head-space, here. Let's hear from some metal workers here. Would it be possible to weld that broken piece on the bolt and be safe to use?

andyffer
02-05-2010, 07:30
What does this mean? Is this a joke or what?

means this guy is gonna have to buy a new bolt or have it modified while I wouldnt have to pay a cent :whistling:

AustinTx
02-07-2010, 22:59
The bolt and and carrier are listed here:

http://www.floridagunworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=AKA+AK+MISC

$119.95

GIockGuy24
02-08-2010, 00:13
The bolt and and carrier are listed here:

http://www.floridagunworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=AKA+AK+MISC

$119.95

What Florida Gunworks sells they don't stock. They are suppose to order it but most of it is not even available. People's orders get cashed and it takes a year or never to resolve the fact they aren't getting anything or the correct thing.

machman
02-08-2010, 06:49
Also, the one that they sell is for a Romanian AK. I need one for a Chinese (Norinco).

I have about decided to get the Polytech stripped bolt for $60.

RWBlue
02-08-2010, 11:05
I checked out www.e-gunparts.com. They don't have it right now.

machman
02-08-2010, 13:04
I checked out www.e-gunparts.com. They don't have it right now.

Yeah, I checked there too last week and got the same result.

Glockdude1
02-08-2010, 13:42
While you are waiting to get a new bolt, have you thought about getting another AK? I am up to 4 AK's my self. They tend to multiply.
http://i50.tinypic.com/30wmr9c.jpg

:cool:

AustinTx
02-08-2010, 17:28
Also, the one that they sell is for a Romanian AK. I need one for a Chinese (Norinco).

I have about decided to get the Polytech stripped bolt for $60.

I didn't know about Florida Gunworks. Thanks for the warning.

$60 seems pretty reasonable in this day & time. Everything is over priced, IMO.

my762buzz
02-08-2010, 17:50
Yeah, I checked there too last week and got the same result.

I swapped a bulgarian SA 85 bolt into my MAK just to compare.
It seemed to fit fine. I cycled the action a few times without a problem.
I took several measurements with calipers and with every measurement the bulgarian bolt was a few to several thousandths wider than my MAK bolt.
I would bet that an unissued bulgarian or even east german bolt could be made to fit perfect with some filing and polishing and of course your going to need to headspace any new bolt anyway. Kvar has an unissued east german for $70


http://i45.tinypic.com/264nhaq.jpg

machman
02-08-2010, 20:55
While you are waiting to get a new bolt, have you thought about getting another AK? I am up to 4 AK's my self. They tend to multiply.
:cool:

I must say that I have thought about it.

machman
02-08-2010, 21:05
I swapped a bulgarian SA 85 bolt into my MAK just to compare.
It seemed to fit fine. I cycled the action a few times without a problem.
I took several measurements with calipers and with every measurement the bulgarian bolt was a few to several thousandths wider than my MAK bolt.
I would bet that an unissued bulgarian or even east german bolt could be made to fit perfect with some filing and polishing and of course your going to need to headspace any new bolt anyway. Kvar has an unissued east german for $70


Hey buzz, I appreciate that info. That is interesting, but I think I am going to order the Polytech bolt.

AustinTx
02-08-2010, 23:09
How would you headspace a new bolt, if it required fitting?

machman
02-09-2010, 15:05
How would you headspace a new bolt, if it required fitting?

I don't know. I have heard that the headspace is between the carrier and barrel and unaffected by the bolt. This is assuming that the counterbore on the bolt is within tolerance.

GIockGuy24
02-09-2010, 15:29
The bolt carrier has nothing to do with headspace. Some "new" bolts that have never been fitted to a rifle lack the angle ground in the bottom front of the left bolt lug. This has to match the angle of the bullet guide to turn (rotate) the bolt into battery. Some new bolt already have this angle. This angle does not effect headspace. Using a Chinese-made bolt gives the best chance of having good headspace with no fitting.

GIockGuy24
02-09-2010, 15:32
I swapped a bulgarian SA 85 bolt into my MAK just to compare.
It seemed to fit fine. I cycled the action a few times without a problem.
I took several measurements with calipers and with every measurement the bulgarian bolt was a few to several thousandths wider than my MAK bolt.
I would bet that an unissued bulgarian or even east german bolt could be made to fit perfect with some filing and polishing and of course your going to need to headspace any new bolt anyway. Kvar has an unissued east german for $70


http://i45.tinypic.com/264nhaq.jpg

Look closely at the front (bottom corner) of the left bolt lug. You can see the difference in the angles cut at those corners.

my762buzz
02-09-2010, 15:58
Look closely at the front (bottom corner) of the left bolt lug. You can see the difference in the angles cut at those corners.

I'm not a welder but I imagine it should be possible to weld on more material
and then file an angle match to the other profile. With this incident, I would be hesitant to use another bolt of possibly the same material and tempering.

MisterPX
02-09-2010, 16:07
means this guy is gonna have to buy a new bolt or have it modified while I wouldnt have to pay a cent :whistling:

Assuming Lancaster is still around in 15 years...:whistling:

Your post contributes nothing to this thread.

AustinTx
02-10-2010, 01:23
The bolt carrier has nothing to do with headspace. Some "new" bolts that have never been fitted to a rifle lack the angle ground in the bottom front of the left bolt lug. This has to match the angle of the bullet guide to turn (rotate) the bolt into battery. Some new bolt already have this angle. This angle does not effect headspace. Using a Chinese-made bolt gives the best chance of having good headspace with no fitting.

I couldn't see where headspace would be affected by the bolt carrier at all. It looks like to me, that the chamber could possibly need to be re-cut. Once the barrel is fastened to the trunnion, isn't the only way to get proper headspace be, by cutting the chamber to make the headspace right? I have been wondering, for a long time exactly how the headspace is adjusted on these kit guns, when they are assembled.

Quote "This is assuming that the counterbore on the bolt is within tolerance."

Is this counterbore the secret to fitting the bolt to a particular barrel?

Thanks for anything about headspaceing.

GIockGuy24
02-10-2010, 05:19
I couldn't see where headspace would be affected by the bolt carrier at all. It looks like to me, that the chamber could possibly need to be re-cut. Once the barrel is fastened to the trunnion, isn't the only way to get proper headspace be, by cutting the chamber to make the headspace right? I have been wondering, for a long time exactly how the headspace is adjusted on these kit guns, when they are assembled.

Quote "This is assuming that the counterbore on the bolt is within tolerance."

Is this counterbore the secret to fitting the bolt to a particular barrel?

Thanks for anything about headspaceing.

The chamber is hard chromed. Not to be cut. If headspace is too tight the bolt lugs and trunnion could be lapped. I doubt there will be a problem.. The rifles are headspaced when assembled by pressing the barrel in the trunnion. There is also a spec for the gap between the barrel and the bolt, so there can't be too many variations in parts. The Chinese went to a unique chamber shape around 1965 but standard military headspace gauges still work. As long as the headspace isn't too tight or short the angles on the bolt and trunnion are more important to function than headspace, so I wouldn't mess with it much.

AustinTx
02-10-2010, 23:58
GIockGuy24
Thanks very much for the headspace information. I had gotten to thinking that the tolerances on these guns is probably close enough, that bolts could be interchanged in different rifles and still be safe. If the headspace is too short (tight), the bolt won't close, so that pretty much means that won't be a problem. Do like you suggest and lap it in. I just don't believe you would have enough excessive headspace, to be dangerous, if the gun was in spec. to begin with. I had an old Springfield '03 30-06 that had a replacement bolt, with the bolt handle turned down for a scope, in it. A lot of those old rifles were sporterized like that and I never heard of any headspace problems. Folks just put the original bolt up, just in case and used the altered one.
Thanks, again
AustinTx

cadillacguns
02-11-2010, 04:19
Order from Polytech parts, why fool around with it, you could do "this", or "that", but I bet the chinese parts the best bet.

machman
02-19-2010, 07:18
I got the Polytech bolt in the mail yesterday. I installed the firing pin and extractor this morning and reassembled the rifle. The bolt closed and cycled like it should. I will cycle some rounds manually through the gun tomorrow and then maybe testfire it. So far, so good. It will be great to have this old friend back in operation.

Glockdude1
02-19-2010, 09:42
I look forward to the next range report!

:cool:

cadillacguns
02-19-2010, 12:04
Should work just fine let us know if it does or doesn't. :dunno:

machman
02-20-2010, 19:54
Shot like a dream. I put around 80 rounds down range today without any issues.

Glockdude1
02-21-2010, 08:43
Shot like a dream. I put around 80 rounds down range today without any issues.

:thumbsup:

my762buzz
03-04-2010, 17:17
It wasn't that long ago on sksboards that two unrelated people had a chinese
sks operating rod the short one shear off and eject into the action opening.
The same week. What are the chances of that?

ammoboy2
03-10-2010, 20:34
Machman

I would recommend you not fire the rifle until verifying the headspace is within tolerance. The correct method to headspace an AKM is to use both a go and no go headspace gauge. The go gauge will close on the bolt with finger pressure while the no go will not allow the bolt to fully lock. To change the headspace the barrel pin is driven out of the trunnion and the barrel is moved in or out based upon the headspace change needed. The pin hole is then drilled larger and a larger pin is driven back into the trunnion locking the barrel in the new correct postion for the new bolt.

Lapping the lugs can wear through the heat treat on the lugs allowing a similar occurance that you already have experienced. The bolt strength and correct headspace is critical to shooter safety.

my762buzz
03-17-2010, 17:03
Chinese soft wood stock just recently chipped on another Norinco MAK 90.
It's not mine and it happened to someone that bought it after the first 20
rounds through the rifle. That looks like a recoil pressure point.
It's not the first I have seen this happen on. Iron wood 's stock would obviously be a far better stock. The chinese chu wood isn't the best. Material choices for weapon platforms make a difference. We could argue that this stock was a last minute design change because of the 1990 import ban, but I am pretty sure its the same wood material used on the type 56 and sks.
Cutting corners by using inferior materials lowers the perceived quality standard and makes the alternative weapon choices like
Russian, East German, Bulgarian, etc.. that much more desirable.



http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy118/1white_tiger/P3140016-1.jpg

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy118/1white_tiger/P3140017.jpg

faawrenchbndr
12-11-2010, 20:26
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/faawrenchbndr/Norinco%20Mak%2090/AKintheweeds.jpg

frank_drebin
12-12-2010, 15:04
means this guy is gonna have to buy a new bolt or have it modified while I wouldnt have to pay a cent :whistling:

you are so cool

BBJones
12-13-2010, 11:32
you are so cool

I know this is a year old thread, but he is uninformed too. Anyone who has ever dealt with lancaster customer service would not be bragging about how awesome they are. Notoriously bad and a company I would never buy from.