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Teej
02-01-2010, 07:45
Hello, I just purchased my 1st AK. I was leaning towards an AR for a SHTF weapon but talked to a friend who has both an AR and AK and his preference is his AK. I agreed with his reasoning and started searching for an AK and found what I thought was a decent deal although I know nothing about AK's.

I have not received it yet so I cannot post pictures.

I bought a Romanian SAR AK-47 with a under folder stock. It has a chrome lined threaded barrel. The owner says it is a SAR with a stamped WARS 10 from Century? I am guessing he means the receiver? It takes double stacks.

I bought it including one 30 rnd mag, including mag pouch, bayonet w/sheath & cleaning tools and sling. My price including shipping is $435.00.

What are your thoughts? Is this a decent weapon? Is there anything I need to upgrade or watch out for? I probably would like to change the stock out to a 6 position AR type stock if possible.

All opinions and suggestions will be appreciated.

OH, the slanted flash suppressor freely unthreads. I thought they were spot welded on to make the ATF happy. Could I get in trouble accepting it in this condition?

Thank you

Jmzzl
02-01-2010, 08:24
If it's Romanian, and has a reciever from Century, then it's probably a WASR-10. I have one and I love it. It sounds like you got a good deal.

Glockdude1
02-01-2010, 08:48
Hello, I just purchased my 1st AK. I was leaning towards an AR for a SHTF weapon but talked to a friend who has both an AR and AK and his preference is his AK. I agreed with his reasoning and started searching for an AK and found what I thought was a decent deal although I know nothing about AK's.

I have not received it yet so I cannot post pictures.

I bought a Romanian SAR AK-47 with a under folder stock. It has a chrome lined threaded barrel. The owner says it is a SAR with a stamped WARS 10 from Century? I am guessing he means the receiver? It takes double stacks.

I bought it including one 30 rnd mag, including mag pouch, bayonet w/sheath & cleaning tools and sling. My price including shipping is $435.00.

What are your thoughts? Is this a decent weapon? Is there anything I need to upgrade or watch out for? I probably would like to change the stock out to a 6 position AR type stock if possible.
All opinions and suggestions will be appreciated.

OH, the slanted flash suppressor freely unthreads. I thought they were spot welded on to make the ATF happy. Could I get in trouble accepting it in this condition?

Thank you

It will cost you quite a bit of money to change out a underfolding stock for a collapsable AR stock with a AK-47 receiver. Best way to do that is buy a AK with a standard stock.

:cool:

CarlosC
02-01-2010, 09:19
No such thing as a SAR with an underfolder stock. SARs were imported as SAR-1 (7.62), SAR-2 (5.45) or SAR-3 (5.56), all with fixed stocks. The seller has either an underfolder kit-built Romanian AK, or it's a WASR.
The price is not bad. The threaded muzzle isn't a issue either and the brake is supposed to be a little loose so it can be removed. As long as the retention pin from the FSB holds it in place, it's not a problem.

CarlosC
02-01-2010, 10:35
I just thought about this and figured I'd share. It's everything you'd ever want to know about Romanian AKs. I got it long ago from a Romanian AK page that no longer seems to be running, but the info was correct. Over time I also added different versions that were coming out. Enjoy!!

SAR-1: 7.62, fixed stock, pistol grip, no threads, hi-cap, dimpled receiver
SAR-2: 5.45, fixed stock, pistol grip, no threads, hi-cap, dimpled receiver
SAR-3: 5.56, fixed stock, pistol grip, no threads, hi-cap, dimpled receiver
ROMAK 991: 7.62, thumbhole stock, lo-cap, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples on receiver
ROMAK 992 (lo-cap): 5.45, thumbhole stock, lo-cap, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples on receiver
ROMAK 992 (hi-cap): 5.45, fixed stock, pistol grip, no threads, hi-cap, no dimples in receiver, some had AK-74 muzzle braked welded on
ROMAK 1: 7.62, Dragunov stock, hi-cap, dimpled receiver, nut welded over threads if threaded
ROMAK 2: 5.45, Dragunov stock, hi-cap, dimpled receiver, nut welded over threads if threaded
MK-II: same as ROMAK 2
CUR 2: same as ROMAK 2 but better fit and finish and many came with muzzle brakes welded on
WUM-1: 7.62, thumbhole stock, hi-cap, nut welded over threads if threaded, dimpled receiver
WUM-2: 5.45, 7.62, thumbhole stock, hi-cap, nut welded over threads if threaded, dimpled receiver

WASR (pre 9-2004)
WASR-10 (lo-cap type 1): 7.62, thumbhole stock, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver
WASR-10 (lo-cap type 2): 7.62, fixed stock, pistol grip, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver
WASR-10 (hi-cap type 1): 7.62, thumbhole stock, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver
WASR-10 (hi-cap type 2): 7.62, fixed stock, pistol grip, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver

WASR (post 9-2004)
WASR-10 (lo-cap type 1): 7.62, thumbhole stock, better overall quality, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver
WASR-10 (lo-cap type 2): 7.62, fixed stock, pistol grip, better overall quality, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver
WASR-10 (hi-cap type 1): 7.62, thumbhole stock, better overall quality, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver
WASR-10 (hi-cap type 2): 7.62, fixed stock, pistol grip, better overall quality, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver
GP WASR-10: 7.62, fixed stock, pistol grip, threaded barrel with muzzle brake, bayonet lug, no dimples in receiver
GP WASR-10 Folder: same as GP WASR-10, but with a side-folding stock
WASR-2: 5.45, fixed stock, pistol grip, hi-cap, unthreaded barrel, no dimples in receiver
WASR-3: 5.56, fixed stock, pistol grip, hi-cap, unthreaded barrel, no dimples in receiver
MK-V: 7.62, AR-style collapsible stock, Galil handguard, hi-cap, threaded barrel with muzzle brake, bayonet lug, no dimples in receiver
AK MV: Same as GP WASR-10
AK MV Underfolder: Same as GP WASR-10 with underfolding stock
STG-2000C: 7.62, WASR receiver and trunnions, chrome-lined hammer forged GFM barrels, M-16 muzzle brakes, STG-940 furniture, STG-940 style AIR carbine FSB/Gas Block
STG-2002C: 5.45, WASR receiver and trunnions, chrome-lined hammer forged GFM barrels, M-16 muzzle brakes, STG-940 furniture, STG-940 style AIR carbine FSB/Gas Block
STG-2003C: 5.56, WASR receiver and trunnions, chrome-lined hammer forged GFM barrels, M-16 muzzle brakes, STG-940 furniture, STG-940 style AIR carbine FSB/Gas Block, STG-941 clone

Kit builds and non-WASRs
Model 1975: Romanian parts kit on US dimpled receiver, hi-cap, threaded muzzle with brake, bayonet lug, plastic furniture
Model 1975 Bullpup: Bullpup configuration, dimpled receiver, hi-cap, threaded barrel with muzzle brake
AK-47C: 7.62, Romanian parts kit with US dimpled receiver, hi-cap, STG-2003 buttstock and pistol grip
AK-47C side folder: same as AK-47C but with side-folding TAPCO stock and FAL-type pistol grip

AI: standard AK-47 using Type-1 receiver
AIS: AK-47 using Type-3 receiver
AIM (PM md 63): standard AKM, later models used donkey dong foregrip
AIMS (PM md 65): Underfolder AKM, donkey dong foregrip that curved back
PM md 90 (AIR): AIM with side-folding wire stock based on East German design
G-Model: Former Romanian Patriotic Guards (Garda) AKM (big "G" stamped on the left side of the RSB)
AIMS-74 (PA md 86): standard issue Romanian AK-74 with side-folding wire stock used on PM-md 90. First versions had fixed wood stocks similar to original Russian AK-74.
PA md 86 (Short or Commando): same as AIMS-74 with short barrel of only 11.9 inches, revised gas block with integral front sight, revised flash suppressor
Pa md 97: identical to PA md 86, but in 5.56

The PA stands for Puşcă Automată, or Automatic Rifle. PM is for Pistol Mitralieră or Puşcă Mitralieră, not sure.


If there are any corrections or additions - anyone - please let me know so I can update my database!!!!

markieboy
02-01-2010, 14:47
Thanks for the info, CarlosC! Very informative and thorough.
Here's the new link for the Romanian Kalashnikov page:
http://www.novarata.net/Linx310/index.html

CarlosC, I was wondering your opinion on the AK-MV. Do you know if the canted sights and mag wobble are common in this variant, as compared to the ordinary WASR-10?

CarlosC
02-01-2010, 15:38
Man, thanks for the link! I have been wondering what happened to that page!

To tell you the truth, the AK MV seems exactly the same to me as the WASR, just a different name. They're touting it as a Romanian AK M(ilitary) V(ariant), but it really isn't.

I do not really know if the canted sights and mag wobble area continuing problem from the WASR. Actually, neither is really a problem, unless they are extreme.

Teej
02-01-2010, 19:59
It will cost you quite a bit of money to change out a underfolding stock for a collapsable AR stock with a AK-47 receiver. Best way to do that is buy a AK with a standard stock.

:cool:

All the aftermarket collapsable 6 position stocks I just looked at all say they will attach to ALL stamped receivers with NO gunsmithing needed.

This is all new to me. I have never had and AK nor have I fired one. Guess I will know better when I recieve my AK next week and look at the markings.

I am working on posting a picture. thank you

Teej
02-01-2010, 20:11
I just thought about this and figured I'd share. It's everything you'd ever want to know about Romanian AKs. I got it long ago from a Romanian AK page that no longer seems to be running, but the info was correct. Over time I also added different versions that were coming out. Enjoy!!

SAR-1: 7.62, fixed stock, pistol grip, no threads, hi-cap, dimpled receiver
SAR-2: 5.45, fixed stock, pistol grip, no threads, hi-cap, dimpled receiver
SAR-3: 5.56, fixed stock, pistol grip, no threads, hi-cap, dimpled receiver
ROMAK 991: 7.62, thumbhole stock, lo-cap, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples on receiver
ROMAK 992 (lo-cap): 5.45, thumbhole stock, lo-cap, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples on receiver
ROMAK 992 (hi-cap): 5.45, fixed stock, pistol grip, no threads, hi-cap, no dimples in receiver, some had AK-74 muzzle braked welded on
ROMAK 1: 7.62, Dragunov stock, hi-cap, dimpled receiver, nut welded over threads if threaded
ROMAK 2: 5.45, Dragunov stock, hi-cap, dimpled receiver, nut welded over threads if threaded
MK-II: same as ROMAK 2
CUR 2: same as ROMAK 2 but better fit and finish and many came with muzzle brakes welded on
WUM-1: 7.62, thumbhole stock, hi-cap, nut welded over threads if threaded, dimpled receiver
WUM-2: 5.45, 7.62, thumbhole stock, hi-cap, nut welded over threads if threaded, dimpled receiver

WASR (pre 9-2004)
WASR-10 (lo-cap type 1): 7.62, thumbhole stock, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver
WASR-10 (lo-cap type 2): 7.62, fixed stock, pistol grip, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver
WASR-10 (hi-cap type 1): 7.62, thumbhole stock, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver
WASR-10 (hi-cap type 2): 7.62, fixed stock, pistol grip, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver

WASR (post 9-2004)
WASR-10 (lo-cap type 1): 7.62, thumbhole stock, better overall quality, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver
WASR-10 (lo-cap type 2): 7.62, fixed stock, pistol grip, better overall quality, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver
WASR-10 (hi-cap type 1): 7.62, thumbhole stock, better overall quality, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver
WASR-10 (hi-cap type 2): 7.62, fixed stock, pistol grip, better overall quality, nut welded over threads if threaded, no dimples in receiver
GP WASR-10: 7.62, fixed stock, pistol grip, threaded barrel with muzzle brake, bayonet lug, no dimples in receiver
GP WASR-10 Folder: same as GP WASR-10, but with a side-folding stock
WASR-2: 5.45, fixed stock, pistol grip, hi-cap, unthreaded barrel, no dimples in receiver
WASR-3: 5.56, fixed stock, pistol grip, hi-cap, unthreaded barrel, no dimples in receiver
MK-V: 7.62, AR-style collapsible stock, Galil handguard, hi-cap, threaded barrel with muzzle brake, bayonet lug, no dimples in receiver
AK MV: Same as GP WASR-10
AK MV Underfolder: Same as GP WASR-10 with underfolding stock
STG-2000C: 7.62, WASR receiver and trunnions, chrome-lined hammer forged GFM barrels, M-16 muzzle brakes, STG-940 furniture, STG-940 style AIR carbine FSB/Gas Block
STG-2002C: 5.45, WASR receiver and trunnions, chrome-lined hammer forged GFM barrels, M-16 muzzle brakes, STG-940 furniture, STG-940 style AIR carbine FSB/Gas Block
STG-2003C: 5.56, WASR receiver and trunnions, chrome-lined hammer forged GFM barrels, M-16 muzzle brakes, STG-940 furniture, STG-940 style AIR carbine FSB/Gas Block, STG-941 clone

Kit builds and non-WASRs
Model 1975: Romanian parts kit on US dimpled receiver, hi-cap, threaded muzzle with brake, bayonet lug, plastic furniture
Model 1975 Bullpup: Bullpup configuration, dimpled receiver, hi-cap, threaded barrel with muzzle brake
AK-47C: 7.62, Romanian parts kit with US dimpled receiver, hi-cap, STG-2003 buttstock and pistol grip
AK-47C side folder: same as AK-47C but with side-folding TAPCO stock and FAL-type pistol grip

AI: standard AK-47 using Type-1 receiver
AIS: AK-47 using Type-3 receiver
AIM (PM md 63): standard AKM, later models used donkey dong foregrip
AIMS (PM md 65): Underfolder AKM, donkey dong foregrip that curved back
PM md 90 (AIR): AIM with side-folding wire stock based on East German design
G-Model: Former Romanian Patriotic Guards (Garda) AKM (big "G" stamped on the left side of the RSB)
AIMS-74 (PA md 86): standard issue Romanian AK-74 with side-folding wire stock used on PM-md 90. First versions had fixed wood stocks similar to original Russian AK-74.
PA md 86 (Short or Commando): same as AIMS-74 with short barrel of only 11.9 inches, revised gas block with integral front sight, revised flash suppressor
Pa md 97: identical to PA md 86, but in 5.56

The PA stands for Puşcă Automată, or Automatic Rifle. PM is for Pistol Mitralieră or Puşcă Mitralieră, not sure.


If there are any corrections or additions - anyone - please let me know so I can update my database!!!!

Check the Century site. They have a GP WASR-10 with underfolding stock.

Glockdude1
02-01-2010, 20:19
All the aftermarket collapsable 6 position stocks I just looked at all say they will attach to ALL stamped receivers with NO gunsmithing needed.

This is all new to me. I have never had and AK nor have I fired one. Guess I will know better when I recieve my AK next week and look at the markings.

I am working on posting a picture. thank you

This is my Norinco with a 6 position stock on it.
http://i11.tinypic.com/61oslew.jpg

Let say you have a AK with a underfolding stock. A collapsible AR style stock will not fit the rear of the receiver, until you have both the stock, trunion & rear plate, removed from the rear of the receiver.

My Yugo & G22.
http://i34.tinypic.com/2r70ghx.jpg

:cool:

Teej
02-01-2010, 21:05
This is my Norinco with a 6 position stock on it.
http://i11.tinypic.com/61oslew.jpg

Let say you have a AK with a underfolding stock. A collapsible AR style stock will not fit the rear of the receiver, until you have both the stock, trunion & rear plate, removed from the rear of the receiver.

My Yugo & G22.
http://i34.tinypic.com/2r70ghx.jpg

:cool:

How does your Yugo shoot and handle as pictured with only the pistol grip? And I understand what you are saying about the collaspible stock fitting. Thanks

Glockdude1
02-02-2010, 09:49
How does your Yugo shoot and handle as pictured with only the pistol grip? And I understand what you are saying about the collaspible stock fitting. Thanks

I really like the SAW grip. It fits my hand great. It shoots and handle's very nice.

:cool:

Teej
02-02-2010, 10:20
I really like the SAW grip. It fits my hand great. It shoots and handle's very nice.

:cool:


Is the SAW an aftermarket grip?

Teej
02-02-2010, 11:47
Those of you with Romanian AK's, what mags do you suggest and what to steer clear from?

I will only be getting 1 30rnd and would like at least 6 total. I found a decent deal on Yugo 30rnd mags. How do you think the Yugo's will function in it?

Glockdude1
02-02-2010, 12:25
Is the SAW an aftermarket grip?

The grip is a Tapco. Any 30rd AK mag will work fine in your rifle.

These are great AK magazines at a great price:
https://www.aimsurplus.com/EOS/images/product/mak47e30.jpg
$9.95
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=MAK47E30&groupid=15

:thumbsup:

CarlosC
02-02-2010, 12:53
They bill them as European mags, but they're actually Chinese or, more than likely, a combination of Chinese and Yugo parts that are referred to as Chugos in the AK community.

CarlosC
02-02-2010, 13:03
Those of you with Romanian AK's, what mags do you suggest and what to steer clear from?

I will only be getting 1 30rnd and would like at least 6 total. I found a decent deal on Yugo 30rnd mags. How do you think the Yugo's will function in it?

The Yugo mags should function perfectly in your Romy. Magazines are interchangeable between all AK-47s and AKMs in 7.62. It doesn't matter what country they're from...one of the beauties of the AK system.

Yugo mags are pretty unique in that they feature a bolt hold-open on the follower. When the mag runs out, a cutout on the back of the follower prevents the bolt from flying forward. It doesn't damage an AK to dry fire it - it was designed to do so - but it is nice to know when you're empty.

As for magazines I would stay away from...US-made mags. Just a personal opinion. I don't think anyone makes better AK mags, steel or plastic, than the original manufacturers. Never, ever, ever, ever consider buying a ProMag too.

If you're not concerned about originality (Romy gun with a Romy Mag), then get whatever is the best deal you can find.

Teej
02-02-2010, 21:40
Yugo mags are pretty unique in that they feature a bolt hold-open on the follower. When the mag runs out, a cutout on the back of the follower prevents the bolt from flying forward.

That is great info to know. Do ALL Yugo mags have that feature? I have heard others complain that they did not like the fact the bolt does not stay open when empty.

I am guessing with these Yugo mags you mentioned that when locked open you just have to pull the bolt back a little and let go and it will load a new round from a loaded mag?

If so, that is enough to make me want all Yugo mags.

CarlosC
02-02-2010, 22:19
All Yugo mags have that feature, as well as some very rare Chinese mags.

Actually, the bolt is held 100% by the follower, so once you remove the magazine, the bolt will fly forward.

It's really up to you if you want to use them. I have Yugo mags for my Yugo rifles, but I don't prefer them over any other AK mag. I am a big fan of the Chinese mags...they just seem to fit every one of my AKs very well.

dglockster
02-03-2010, 12:53
As for magazines I would stay away from...US-made mags. Just a personal opinion. I don't think anyone makes better AK mags, steel or plastic, than the original manufacturers. Never, ever, ever, ever consider buying a ProMag too.

If you're not concerned about originality (Romy gun with a Romy Mag), then get whatever is the best deal you can find.

This is some of the best advice about mags that you can get.

If you are interested in learning some of the differences that will help you in identifying mags, go to http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=163184.

CarlosC
02-03-2010, 13:08
..or you can go to our own version...
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1104378

There are some other useful guides and stuff in our Resources sticky.

FireForged
02-03-2010, 18:52
If it is stamped WASR then it is a WASR. It is less of a rifle than a SAR-1 but its still a decent rifle. If the seller actually said it was a SAR-1 and it's not, I would send it back.

Teej
02-04-2010, 14:22
If it is stamped WASR then it is a WASR. It is less of a rifle than a SAR-1 but its still a decent rifle. If the seller actually said it was a SAR-1 and it's not, I would send it back.

I am not really worried about it. I think I got a good price even for a WASR. My understanding is that some are very reliable and others with a little work turn out great. I do not care what it looks like. It is a SHTF weapon and bang around, have fun at the range with buds gun.

It I really get into AK's, then I will save a little and get a Mak-90. What do you shoot FireForged?

AustinTx
02-04-2010, 23:44
Teej
You did get a good deal. I don't think you will regret it.

Teej
02-05-2010, 10:13
Figured out how to post the pics. I should receive it next week. These are the pics I looked at before bidding on it.

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/155297000/155297521/pix2342006609.jpg
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/155297000/155297521/pix2342006062.jpg
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/155297000/155297521/pix2343210781.jpg
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/155297000/155297521/pix2343211359.jpg

Teej
02-05-2010, 10:14
pics continued

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/155297000/155297521/pix2343212250.jpg
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/155297000/155297521/pix2343211828.jpg
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/155297000/155297521/pix2343217125.jpg
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/155297000/155297521/pix2430765546.jpg

CarlosC
02-05-2010, 10:24
Looks good. And I think you got a pretty good deal. The cheapest place I know that has the underfolder WASRs is Classic Arms and they are going for $420. Then you add $20 for shipping and $20 for the transfer = $460. You're still ahead.


Welcome to the dark side!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/CarlosC/Guns/AthanksfromMikhail.jpg

Teej
02-05-2010, 10:30
Thank you. You are like the AK encyclopedia and friendly with your knowledge. Members like you make forums like this very valuable.

Thanks again.

CarlosC
02-05-2010, 10:41
I share what I know, but I am far from omniscient. There are plenty of guys here and on other boards that have probably forgotten more about AKs than I'll ever know and many have different opinions.