38 Special as a Defense Weapon?

[realitycheck390]

Just wondering what you all thought about the 38 special as a self defense weapon?
Thanks

[MrVvrroomm]

It's what I carry almost every day. There have been a lot of bad guys taken out with .38 special.

[Brucev]

It's been getting the job done for almost 100 years. A nice well-balanced fixed sighted snub-nosed K frame S&W loaded with soft 158 gr. SWCHP is an excellent choice for SD/HD. It is highly shootable by persons who are not highly skilled or greatly experienced in handling handguns, easily reloaded using speed-loaders and virtually idiot proof under stress. It does not have the appeal of 9mm, .40, .45 rounds because it is considered to plebian, but it extremely effective when used in a typical confrontation. For those who anticipate the most extreme sorts of encounters, nothing will suffice short of the latest semi-auto bullet slinger featured on the front cover of HotGunsAreUs. From a 4" service revolver, the .38 in an appropriate loading will give more than enough power, penetration and bullet weight for SD/HD use. Are there better choices available? Yes. Tactically, etc., is the revolver (6, 7, 8 shot) the optimum SD/HD weapon? No. But in the hands of even a moderately trained person, the .38 Special is more than equal to the requirements of SD/HD. Sincerely. Brucev.

[realitycheck390]

It's been getting the job done for almost 100 years.

I like that. :cool:

[texmex]

The 38 Special is a viable self defense weapon. The FBI used it for years loaded with 158 gr, +P lead semi-wadcutter hollow points with excellent results. The main limitation to a comparatively less powerful round is either lack of expansion or lack of penetration. There must be enough penetration to reach the vital organs. Too much expansion may lead to a lack of penetration. No expansion makes a smaller wound channel. Expansion is pretty much irrelevant if something vital is penetrated such as the brain or spinal cord. Modern bonded core hollow points and bullets like the DPX hopefully have improved the chances of both penetration and expansion. Their expansion enlarges the wound channel and the little cutting edges formed during expansion could conceivably cause more damage than a smooth surface such as a full metal jacket or round nose lead. The 38 Special has always been considered an inherently accurate cartridge which hopefully leads to good shot placement. A +P cartridge with good bullet design complemented by good marksmanship should allow this cartridge to perform adequately. The key ingredient is practice, practice, practice.

[realitycheck390]

Currently I'm looking at the Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P short barrel ammo. I really like gold dot's hopefully this will be adequate like you say.

[MrVvrroomm]

Currently I'm looking at the Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P short barrel ammo. I really like gold dot's hopefully this will be adequate like you say.
They will do the job nicely.

[MTS532]

But in the hands of even a moderately trained person, the .38 Special is more than equal to the requirements of SD/HD.

Hard to argue with that. With the better loads, the .38 is still a good choice for self defense. It's got a long history of taking bad guys out of the fight, as long as the good guy does his part. No fuss, no drama and no glitzy magazine ads touting the newest bullet designs driven at hyper velocities. Easy to train with and easy to teach. I like that.

The history of the pedestrian .38 SPL is more evidence that shot placement and penetration are the keys to physical incapacitation.

[texmex]

Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P short barrel ammo is what I keep in my S&W 642 and my Ruger LCR. The 642 is the off duty weapon I'm carrying while off on vacation. I think it is as good a choice as any.

[fredj338]

It's been getting the job done for almost 100 years. A nice well-balanced fixed sighted snub-nosed K frame S&W loaded with soft 158 gr. SWCHP is an excellent choice for SD/HD. It is highly shootable by persons who are not highly skilled or greatly experienced in handling handguns, easily reloaded using speed-loaders and virtually idiot proof under stress. It does not have the appeal of 9mm, .40, .45 rounds because it is considered to plebian, but it extremely effective when used in a typical confrontation. For those who anticipate the most extreme sorts of encounters, nothing will suffice short of the latest semi-auto bullet slinger featured on the front cover of HotGunsAreUs. From a 4" service revolver, the .38 in an appropriate loading will give more than enough power, penetration and bullet weight for SD/HD use. Are there better choices available? Yes. Tactically, etc., is the revolver (6, 7, 8 shot) the optimum SD/HD weapon? No. But in the hands of even a moderately trained person, the .38 Special is more than equal to the requirements of SD/HD. Sincerely. Brucev.
Exactly what I recommend new shooters looking for a HD weapon. Buy A good 4" medium frame 357mag, fill it w/ 158gr+PLSWCHP & you are well armed for most HD situations. AS a BUG, it's almost fool proof & will fire from contact, in a pocket or from any possible grip postion. I like the 135grGDH{+P but it does shoot low form most fixed sighted guns.

[coal]

Just wondering what you all thought about the 38 special as a self defense weapon? Thanks

It's good enough. I'd be just as fine with 5rds .38 as 5rds 9mm in theory. But, in application, my 9mms hold more than 5rds, my .38spl does not. Given what I have, my preference in order:
1) 7 rds 12-guage
2) 11rds .45acp
3) 16rds 9mm
4) 5rds .38spl
5) sharp stick

[Mongosafari]

A lot of us stake our lives and family safety on a 38 Special.

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr219/MongoSafari/da5855e0.jpg

If I'm near home then I might use another force option: 308, 223, 12 GA......

It's kind of hard going to a restaurant with an M1A slung across my back.

[Ak.Hiker]

I like the 38 Special. I have plenty of other guns but when I travel my favorite to take on trips is the Colt Detective Special loaded with either the Federal 158 grain LSWHP +P or the Speer 135 grain +P Gold Dot.

[carbofan21]

A lot of us stake our lives and family safety on a 38 Special.

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr219/MongoSafari/da5855e0.jpg

If I'm near home then I might use another force option: 308, 223, 12 GA......

It's kind of hard going to a restaurant with an M1A slung across my back.

that looks like one of the new 642's with the 2.5" barrel. how do you like it, and how does it shoot compared to a standard 642?

[mitchshrader]

I'm buying (have bought) my daughter a model 36-1 3" barrel, at her request. I've got one she had her eye on, so I hastily located an alternative. And another young lady of my acquaintance got her 2nd deer with a .38 158gr RNL out of a '94 carbine this past year.

The deer votes in favor of .38s.

[MSgt Dotson]

The .38 Spec is to defensive handgun rounds as the .30-30 is to deer hunting...; not super powerful, but, gets the job done with shot placement.

[Brucev]

The .38 Spec is to defensive handgun rounds as the .30-30 is to deer hunting...; not super powerful, but, gets the job done with shot placement.

I'll go one step further... not only is the .38 Special for SD/HD like the .30-30 for deer hunting, but the vast majority of SD/HD incidents are very much like the normative distances and deer encountered in deer hunting. The vast majority of deer are not +200 lb. monsters but mere 120-130 lb. buck or does that die readily when shot in the heart/lungs with a moderately powerful round such as the .30-30 Winchester. Shot with a .30-06 or some belted magnum, they are not killed deader. They are just killed. The overwhelming vast majority of such deer are killed at ranges seldom over 100 yds. At that distance, even the less than benchrest quality accuracy of a lever-action rifle is more than capable of putting rounds well inside of the kill zone of a run of the mill deer. The .30-30 is not glamorous. It just works very very well. And when it comes to killing deer, that's what you want a deer rifle to do.

The same is true of the .38 Special and the revolvers in which it is chambered. The vast majority of SD/HD incidents do not involve a mob of assailants all firing various high-capacity pistols/rifles/shotguns which they hold sideways while flashing gang signs with their other hand. Such scenarios sell magazines but they are the exception. The vast majority of criminal assailants are not heavily muscled 250 lb. weight lifters wearing body armor but run of the mill normal adult males who may weigh as little as 120 lbs. or as much as 225 lbs. but who will be wearing standard street clothing rather than body armor and who will fall down and even die when nothing more high-tech than a .38 bullet from even a lowly .38 Special fired from even a plebian fixed/adjustable sighted short/medium/long barreled blued/stainless square butted/round butted revolver chambered for 5/6/7/8 rounds. It may not be glamorous, but it works very very well. And when it comes to dealing with a criminal in a SD/HD incident, that is what you want a SD/HD handgun to do. JMHO. Sincerely. Brucev.

[glocksterr]

in the hands of even a moderately trained person, the .38 Special is more than equal to the requirements of SD/HD.

Sincerely. Brucev.



Hard to argue with that...



i disagree...

:whistling:
























































































just off the top of my head say 3 attackers, 2 armed in a home invasion...


just sayin'

:dunno:

[vafish]

The .38 Spec is to defensive handgun rounds as the .30-30 is to deer hunting...; not super powerful, but, gets the job done with shot placement.

Good analogy.

And the .38 special was designed in 1899, so it has been getting the job done for 111 years.

.38 special is not my first choice for self defense, but I would feel just fine carrying it and have carried one in the past.

[MTS532]

just off the top of my head say 3 attackers, 2 armed in a home invasion...

Anyone can create a situation in which your primary self defense weapon is inadequate.

But a lot of people just want something small and concealable to slip into their pocket while they go about their business.

In this role, I don't think you can beat a small framed .38 Spl for reliability.

True, you may not be able to take on a dozen gangbangers from the local 'MS-13' chapter, but against one or two determined attackers, the guy who carries a small .38 snubbie and is well trained in its use is more than a match for most situations that may arise around town.

For decades, police and even military pilots carried a plain ol' .38 Spl. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, just like any other self defense handgun.

[Cody Jarrett]

S&W 637 with CT LaserGrip loaded with Speer GD Hollows. I rarely carry, in fact I almost never do, but that's more than enough for self protection at close range.

[fredj338]

just off the top of my head say 3 attackers, 2 armed in a home invasion...
just sayin'
That can even be handled w/ a 6shot 38sp+P. Each armed BG gets two & you still have two in case the unarmed guy running away decides to come back! Really, 99% of all HD situations can still be handled w/ the 38sp+P rounds. In a stress situation w/ a moderately trained person, it's simple, effective & powerful enough to get it done. For years, until the wife got comfortable w/ a semiuato, a 4" 686 stuffd w/ 158grLSWCH+P was our house gun. Backed up by a speed loader, it works fine. Backed up by a 12ga, it works even better. It's always going to be your mind set & ability in the fight mor ethan what you fight w/. If yo uthink you need 15rds to solve your problem, then maybe you do.

[glocksterr]

Anyone can create a situation in which your primary self defense weapon is inadequate.

True, you may not be able to take on a dozen gangbangers from the local 'MS-13' chapter, but against one or two determined attackers, the guy who carries a small .38 snubbie and is well trained in its use is more than a match for most situations that may arise around town.




true, around town its not so bad but as a primary @ the house?




That can even be handled w/ a 6shot 38sp+P. Each armed BG gets two & you still have two in case the unarmed guy running away decides to come back! Really, 99% of all HD situations can still be handled w/ the 38sp+P rounds. In a stress situation w/ a moderately trained person, it's simple, effective & powerful enough to get it done. For years, until the wife got comfortable w/ a semiuato, a 4" 686 stuffd w/ 158grLSWCH+P was our house gun. Backed up by a speed loader, it works fine. Backed up by a 12ga, it works even better. It's always going to be your mind set & ability in the fight mor ethan what you fight w/. If yo uthink you need 15rds to solve your problem, then maybe you do.

"years" ago we faced a different threat. i wouldnt go as far as 99%.


ya, it works alot better when 12ga. is handy, but, thats not what we where talking about.


oh, and those six shots. we all know we are never going to miss, especially when 2 SB's are shooting @ us...

[Southern Patriot]

just off the top of my head say 3 attackers, 2 armed in a home invasion...


just sayin'

:dunno:

What if.......

You get 1 round off during a struggle as he grabs the slide causing a FTRB?
you drop the gun and can't reach it as the BG comes to you?
you are struck by lightning?
you are on the throne and do not have a gun on you?

There is a lot of what ifs.

I agree that I would rather have more than 5 rounds in hand to defend my family. At least I will go down fighting when I carry the 38 and find myself engaged with more than 1 BG......

[fredj338]

true, around town its not so bad but as a primary @ the house?

"years" ago we faced a different threat. i wouldnt go as far as 99%.


ya, it works alot better when 12ga. is handy, but, thats not what we where talking about.


oh, and those six shots. we all know we are never going to miss, especially when 2 SB's are shooting @ us...Threats really haven't changed all that much, I'ld stand by my 99% rule. If you feel the need for 15+1 to protect your home, that's fine, I have no issue, but to say it can't be done w/ 6 from a revolver is just nieve.:dunno: Some shoot better than others, under stress or on the range. You have to find your confidence level. Now if you live in a ghetto & are set upon by gangbangers nightly, nothing but a M4 will do IMO.

[MTS532]

true, around town its not so bad but as a primary @ the house?


Sure!

As a guess, I'd say there are hundreds of thousands of homes here in the US protected by a humble .38 Spl.

The general population is not into guns. Many people buy a common .38 snubbie and shove it in a sock drawer and consider themselves armed. When things go 'bump in the night,' they retrieve the gun and investigate the noise. Until that happens, they may never give home defense another thought.

In this case, the tool is fine but the mindset is lacking.

Other people may be sensitive to blast and recoil. With good loads in the .38, they get an acceptable level of terminal ballistics with moderate recoil and muzzle blast.

Nothing wrong with a good .38. As with any other aspect of self defense, winning or losing the battle usually depends on the Indian, not the arrow.

[CC Glock]

My grandma used to run a country club in arkansas, every friday night she would walk out alone around 1 in the morning. she carried a 38spl in the bank bag. One night 3 guys approched her, she told them stop and that she had a gun, they didnt listen. She shot the ground not trying to hit them but scare them. Next day they found blood. Not sure if the round hit them or some of the parking lot with kicked up.

Btw she told the police this had been happening for about a week and they did nothing about it.

This same gun is now in my moms nightstand.
Model 60

[Brucev]

What if......."you are on the throne and do not have a gun on you?" Surely you jest! That's why they make the S&W 66... stainless steel! Excellent stuff!

[Mongosafari]

that looks like one of the new 642's with the 2.5" barrel. how do you like it, and how does it shoot compared to a standard 642?

I haven't had or shot a 1 7/8" barrel snubbie for a while. I would love to do a side by side comparison. The 2.5" shoots very well. I like the shrouded ejector and pinned front sight (interchangable) versus the milled front on the shorter barrel. It handles and shoots very well.

I have mostly shot wadcutters and round nose loads getting used to the revolver. I does shoot nicely with Winchester 90 gr Silver Tips (old stock I had in the closet).

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr219/MongoSafari/2a683d6b.jpg

With proper shot placement a 38 Special is a very formitable weapon.

.

[jaybirdjtt]

I still have an S&W Model 36 at the ready....choice #5 behind the 12 gauge, the 45 ACP, the 357 magnum and the 9mm G26. Some folks swear by snubbies in 38 Special. Wasn't Elmer Keith one of the guys who "modernized" 38 Special loads making them respectable at the least? I, for one, would not like being shot with a 38. It just might kill me but not quite as dead as I'd be if I were shot with a 10mm loaded with Gold Dots from a Glock 20.
(I can almost hear.... newbies, "Who's Elmer Keith?")

[glockman23]

As a carry round= fine

As a home defense option= not the best choice, but not the worst IMO

[Glolt20-91]

I still have an S&W Model 36 at the ready....choice #5 behind the 12 gauge, the 45 ACP, the 357 magnum and the 9mm G26. Some folks swear by snubbies in 38 Special. Wasn't Elmer Keith one of the guys who "modernized" 38 Special loads making them respectable at the least? I, for one, would not like being shot with a 38. It just might kill me but not quite as dead as I'd be if I were shot with a 10mm loaded with Gold Dots from a Glock 20.
(I can almost hear.... newbies, "Who's Elmer Keith?")

Plus the .44 Special into the .44mag.

This M64-3 is handloaded with 158gr hollow base lead hollow points and Speer's 135gr Gold Dot;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/M64-3SS3-20-2007018.jpg

The .38 Special is okay, but the .44 Special has a lot more going for it; including hiking trail back-up with Keith design hardcast bullets. The scandium frame M396 NG is lightweight and doesn't bust one's hands with recoil when fired.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/ScandiumSmiths008.jpg

From Michael Shoven at Corbon using the Barnes DPX bullet from a 4" M629;

This was using properly prepared 10% ballistic gelatin with a 4 layer denim barrier.

The 44 Special ended up with

velocity - 1024 fps
recovered diameter - .89"
penetration - 17.5"
recovered wt - 200 gr

44 Mag was

1201 fps
recovered diameter - .74"
penetration - 17"
recovered wt - 225 gr


Compare to;

DoubleTap 10mm
135gr JHP @ 1600fps - 11.0" / .70" frag nasty
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1475fps - 13.5" / .88"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 14.25" / 1.02"
165gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1425fps - 14.75" / .82"
180gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1330fps - 16.0" / .85"
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1300fps - 15.25" / .96"
200gr XTP @ 1250fps - 19.5" / .72"


Bob :cowboy:

[wnr700]

I have a model 19 S+W for home defense and occasional carry. Most often carry a snub for when I'm out walking the dog, making a late night run to the warehouse, or next to the bed.

Soon will likely add a 20 gauge for home defense.

In 99.99% of the normal routine of life I feel adequately armed.

I don't sweat the .01% that I really can't control, and rely on judgement, awareness, and luck.

That said... a Glock 19 or a .45 Gap is high on my list of next purchases.

[MURRAY]

I got no problems at all with the 38 special caliber with the right loads be it the 158 SWCJHP or the all LEAD HP rem load or the 135 Speer Gold Dot load or for that matter a nice 148 wadcutter. Any gun is better than no gun at all. I just find I shoot my Semi much better than my wheel guns the funny thing is my dad is old school cop and he can run a wheel gun and do reloads at an insane pace......

[GVFlyer]

They say that the first rule in a gun fight is, "Have a gun". The J frame Smiths are mighty convenient to slip into your pocket for that quick dash to the "Stop and Go".

[drjustice]

When absolutely positively has to go BANG there is still no substitute for the old reliable .38 Spl. It is kind of getting hard to find ammo for it these days. Too many people that know are still using it. Good shot placement will get the job done every time. Simple and reliable. Just my own opinion.

[fredj338]

When absolutely positively has to go BANG there is still no substitute for the old reliable .38 Spl. It is kind of getting hard to find ammo for it these days. Too many people that know are still using it. Good shot placement will get the job done every time. Simple and reliable. Just my own opinion.

Exactly why so many LEO carry a j-frame snub as a BUG. If it gets to that, you really, really need it to work.:supergrin:

[Kentucky Shooter]

Hard to beat-----been in service a long, long time. It has been suprpassed in power and perfomance by many rounds, but still very up to the task with the right gun/ammo.

[TylerDurden]

Nothing wrong with the .38 Special.

I like the old Federal Nyclad 125 grain standard pressure load. Clocks in at about 870 fps from my S&W M38 and has a nice big HP cavity.

[den888]

You said it right !!! Great points !!!

It's been getting the job done for almost 100 years. A nice well-balanced fixed sighted snub-nosed K frame S&W loaded with soft 158 gr. SWCHP is an excellent choice for SD/HD. It is highly shootable by persons who are not highly skilled or greatly experienced in handling handguns, easily reloaded using speed-loaders and virtually idiot proof under stress. It does not have the appeal of 9mm, .40, .45 rounds because it is considered to plebian, but it extremely effective when used in a typical confrontation. For those who anticipate the most extreme sorts of encounters, nothing will suffice short of the latest semi-auto bullet slinger featured on the front cover of HotGunsAreUs. From a 4" service revolver, the .38 in an appropriate loading will give more than enough power, penetration and bullet weight for SD/HD use. Are there better choices available? Yes. Tactically, etc., is the revolver (6, 7, 8 shot) the optimum SD/HD weapon? No. But in the hands of even a moderately trained person, the .38 Special is more than equal to the requirements of SD/HD. Sincerely. Brucev.

[Berto]

I trust .38sp just as I'd trust 9x19.It's what I carry 99% of the time.

[kmrcstintn]

lemmee see...

I've got 2 handguns dedicated to the caliber and 2 handguns that can shoot it as an option...S&W 442, dad's S&W 642, Ruger SP101, dad's S&W 686 PowerPort; all rotate thru HD duty and the 2 .357 mags get loaded with whatever my CCW .38 spl +p snubby is fed when they do HD; just use a good quality hollowpoint load; I use Remington 158gr lswchp +p, Federal 125gr Nyclad non +p, and Winchester WWB Personal Defense 125gr +p as an alternate if supplies run low on the other 2 loads

on a side note...not all PD occurs in humanville or home; I will occasionally throw some 158gr hardcast lswc solids in my CCW snubby or Ruger SP101 when making a stop-n-drop of supplies at the hunting camp for anything that might crawl up on me; more often I will carry the Ruger SP101 with CCI Blazer Brass 158gr jhp in .357 mag when I will be up there for a few hours or longer; if making a full day of it I will grab my 12 Mossberg 500, mount the security barrel, and load with Brenneke K-O hardened lead slugs along with the Ruger SP101 with .357 mags; later

[kmrcstintn]

Nothing wrong with the .38 Special.

I like the old Federal Nyclad 125 grain standard pressure load. Clocks in at about 870 fps from my S&W M38 and has a nice big HP cavity.


good news...Federal reintroduced it in 2009 and is a current catalog item...seems they were listening after all...

[Glock-it-to-me]

Lots of cops carried them and I was issued one in the Air Force. That's good enough for me.

[Glock-it-to-me]

Anyone can create a situation in which your primary self defense weapon is inadequate.

But a lot of people just want something small and concealable to slip into their pocket while they go about their business.

In this role, I don't think you can beat a small framed .38 Spl for reliability.

True, you may not be able to take on a dozen gangbangers from the local 'MS-13' chapter, but against one or two determined attackers, the guy who carries a small .38 snubbie and is well trained in its use is more than a match for most situations that may arise around town.

For decades, police and even military pilots carried a plain ol' .38 Spl. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, just like any other self defense handgun.
That's what a black rifle is for.

[fastbolt]

One or another of my S&W J-frames was my most commonly chosen off-duty weapon during the several years prior to my retirement. Now they serve the same purpose as retirement CCW weapons.

I've spent some time over the years becoming familiar with the requirements of accurately and effectively shooting a lightweight, short-barreled 5-shot .38 Spl revolver, both traditional double action and DAO.

While I wouldn't have chosen to carry one as my primary duty weapon when I was working my plainclothes assignment in some of the more troublesome areas, I have no problem feeling sufficiently armed carrying one as an off-duty/retirement weapon. My activities are different.

Neither do I have any problem often setting the J-frame I've been carrying for the day aside as the weapon available during the night, instead of one of my higher capacity 9, .40 or .45 weapons, especially m,y M&P 340 with the front night sight.

Not my concern what other folks choose to do.

[J_Rico]

The .38spl will get the job done.

My wife and mom both have 4" K-frame S&Ws as "home guns" loaded with 158gr LSWCHP +p.

I have taken them to the range to try various firearms and that is with what they are both comfortable.

Works for me.

[automan]

Currently I'm looking at the Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P short barrel ammo. I really like gold dot's hopefully this will be adequate like you say.

+1 I carry them in my SW 36

[Gunnut 45/454]

More often then not my SP101 is loaded with 38SP just incase the wife has to use it , when I'm carring it ,it will most likely have 357 mags in it! With either load who ever is on the recieving end is in big trouble!:supergrin:

[Chonny]

I have a lot of respect for the .38 and would not feel under-gunned carrying one.

[PlayboyPenguin]

I think that .38spl is a very nice caliber. It lends itself to being able to build some really practical guns around it too. I trust my life to one every now and then. :)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/PlayboyPenguin/Wheel%20Guns/SWm649-1.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/PlayboyPenguin/Wheel%20Guns/m60nd-1.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r89/PlayboyPenguin/Wheel%20Guns/Smithm60-1.jpg