The Saiga 5.45 Conversion Begins [Archive] - Glock Talk

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toshbar
02-08-2010, 17:23
I just ordered a Saiga in 5.45x39 from Classic Arms and will document the build here. I already have all my conversion parts/accessories picked out and bookmarked. I think this is going to be a pretty neat thing to do.

I'll go ahead and lay out my plans for anyone to provide advice if they feel so inclined.

Gun
Saiga 5.45x39

Conversion
SAW pistol grip, Bolt, and square nut
Tapco G2 single hook trigger

As I understand it this is all I need since the Saiga has 14 countable parts, and here are 4 US made parts, thus being in compliance with 922r.

I'll make a bullet guide out of some washers or similar metallic flat object with 2 small tack welds to hold it in. I have heard of some companies gluing in bullet guides, which I may look into. I know gluing in is looked down upon. Advice other than to buy a kit and tapping a hole?

Accy
Scope mount/3-9x40 Scope deal from Classic Arms
Romanian Side folding wire stock
4X Surplus Comm-Bloc 30rd AK74 5.45x39 Magazines
RPK Bipod

I'll keep updating as I get parts and find time to go home from school and build this.

my762buzz
02-08-2010, 19:32
With a round trunnion shape ,you can make a bullet guide out of a piece of pipe. Or just buy a guide for $15

For $17.95
a whole kit that will save you time
http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/catalog/2359521_thumb.jpg

Mine was a flat trunnion on the last project, so I just shaped a flat piece
of steel. The guide gets bumped by cartridges and glue does not hold up
well over time. If your trunnion heats up high enough above 100 degrees glue softens and your guide could disattach while the glue became hot. JB weld which is amazing has softened up alot around 300 degrees and lost strength.
Thats actually a good way to remove it. Lesser glues maybe around 100 to 200 degrees. A car interior can reach over 200 F in the summer in the south and ther goes the glue. Another thing is oil can potentially creep between the glue and the steel surface bonded to. In which case, the glue bond fails and your guide disattaches. Same goes with solvents that can dissolve the glue and you need to use some kind of solvent at some point near the chamber opening.

Drill and tap, rivot, or weld and your Saiga's guide will always work for sure.
Glue or epoxy and you never know when it might finally come apart.
Possibly when you most need it.

toshbar
02-08-2010, 19:40
Drill and tap, rivot, or weld and your Saiga's guide will always work for sure.
Glue or epoxy and you never know when it might finally come apart.
Possibly when you most need it.
This is what I was thinking. I think one spot weld on each side would do good, grind relatively smooth and paint with some high temp paint. I guess I'll find out if it's curved or flat when I get the gun.

I saw where one guy online dremelled a feed ramp into his barrel. Don't think I want to do this, what do you think about this way?

toshbar
02-08-2010, 20:07
Everything is ordered except for magazines. Let the waiting begin.

On the side: I'm 18 and most online places to order ammunition require the purchaser to be 21 to order any ammunition. Does anyone know of good online vendors that don't go above and beyond the federal requirement of being 18 to buy rifle ammunition? The-Armory.com sent me a case of 7.62 at a great price, but they don't have surplus 5.45.

my762buzz
02-08-2010, 20:09
This is what I was thinking. I think one spot weld on each side would do good, grind relatively smooth and paint with some high temp paint. I guess I'll find out if it's curved or flat when I get the gun.

I saw where one guy online dremelled a feed ramp into his barrel. Don't think I want to do this, what do you think about this way?

The barrel chamber rear has a designed amount of necessary steel support
to contain the cartridge high pressures during ignition. Reducing the rear edge
lessens the support which keeps the ultra hot pressure gases from escaping
and spraying toward the rear. Also by filing this area you strip chrome lining off and the chamber is where chrome lining helps reliability the most.
A slick uncorroded chamber surface allows cartridges to slide in and out
during feeding and extraction. Taking chrome off in this critical area is a bad idea. Someone tried this a few years back and posted about doing it on saiga12 forums and I sort of recall ended up trashing the whole gun because it was unsafe and replacing the barrel was too expensive. A well fit guide avoids
needing to hack the barrel chamber anyhow.

toshbar
02-09-2010, 15:35
Ammo and AK74 magazines have been ordered. Mom and Dad are probably going to WTF when all this stuff shows up at their house. I figured it wouldn't be a good idea to have this stuff shipped to me at school.

toshbar
02-10-2010, 11:55
Well here's a big thumbs up to Classic Arms of Indian Trail, NC. http://classicarms.us/

I ordered the rifle and scope/mount combo Monday after store hours over the phone. I was told that they were about a day behind on orders and that my order would probably be shipped Wednesday. Well this morning I got a call from my FFL telling me they had a transfer for me. :supergrin:

Seems to me Classic shipped the gun out Tuesday and overnighted it for $15.

Highly recommended, I will buy from them again.

CnRnut
02-10-2010, 16:48
Your off by one US made part.

You are correct in a stock Saiga has 14 imported parts.
This is not counting a pistol grip.
It will have 15"parts" with a PG,you still need 4 more US parts.

Old Guard Dog
02-10-2010, 18:15
I would not cut a ramp in the chamber. This leaves some unsupported chamber and you can blow out a cartridge case that way, much like reloading Glock brass too many times. I have had to weld up and reshape the bullet guide in the past where someone "Bubba"d it. It needs to be smooth, but high enough to lift the tip of the bullet high enough to enter the chamber and not catch on the flat rear portion of the barrel. Worked fine after that.

toshbar
02-10-2010, 18:32
I would not cut a ramp in the chamber. This leaves some unsupported chamber and you can blow out a cartridge case that way, much like reloading Glock brass too many times. I have had to weld up and reshape the bullet guide in the past where someone "Bubba"d it. It needs to be smooth, but high enough to lift the tip of the bullet high enough to enter the chamber and not catch on the flat rear portion of the barrel. Worked fine after that.
I haven't had the gun in my hands yet, so assuming it's flat where the bullet guide should go, what do you think about spot welding in a flat washer or piece of metal? I think 2 small spot welds would be more than enough to keep it in place. Should I paint the top of the bullet guide and the welds, or will the bullet sliding over it just wear through the paint?

toshbar
02-13-2010, 23:14
Got the gun Friday and did the conversion that afternoon. It took me an hour to do the pistol grip plus another hour to mess with all my other stuff on it.

Overall the whole process went well. I did retain the bolt hold open, but had to narrow one side of the Tapco hammer to make width for it and trimmed the button so it didn't stick down as far. I decided to rattle can the unpainted metal that the plate covered up. I did not drill and bolt the front of the trigger guard, it is held in tight enough under the magazine release. The bullet guide is unneeded with my 30 round Bulgarian surplus mags - I shot 50 rounds out of that magazine including 20 rounds of bump fire without a hitch. Very satisfied with what I got. I didn't take any pictures of the conversion, as there are plenty out there. I have left the holes in the receiver there cause the place I ordered my parts from didn't have the hole plugs. They don't bother me so I doubt I'll do anything about them.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG1553.jpghttp://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG1552.jpghttp://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG1570.jpghttp://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG1579.jpg

toshbar
02-13-2010, 23:14
I took it out to sight it in today and it definitely is an AK in regards to a group. 4" group at 75 yards with a scope. I think my 10/22 does better than that. After I got it right(forgot to tighten the ring's weaver clamps and after 20 shots I noticed my sight picture was jumping to the right when dry firing) I took aim at a buddy's old art appreciation book wrapped up with paracord. Interesting enough was that the bullet started to tumble after only penetrating about an inch of paper. Very large, elongated exit hole.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG1599.jpghttp://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG1594.jpg

mikeyU
02-13-2010, 23:18
nice, how difficult is it to convert saiga to an AK? I would rather do a conversion like this than get another century type ak74.

Do you have to make a bullet guide?

my762buzz
02-13-2010, 23:33
nice, how difficult is it to convert saiga to an AK? I would rather do a conversion like this than get another century type ak74.

Do you have to make a bullet guide?

A couple of hours of actual work. A bullet guide is essential.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1171732

toshbar
02-14-2010, 08:50
nice, how difficult is it to convert saiga to an AK? I would rather do a conversion like this than get another century type ak74.

Do you have to make a bullet guide?
You have to be halfway proficient with an angle grinder(or a dremel, I did it with a 4" angle grinder which was kinda big for the job). Anyone can work a punch and hammer. It probably took me 40 min of actual fab work to get the rifle ready for bolting on parts. I did the conversion one day and then took it apart for painting the next day. I did 2 coats of black spray paint and 2 coats of clear, allowing it to dry under a drop light in between.

as for the bullet guide, I did have one fail to feed which I induced. I'm not going to put one in there unless it starts malfunctioning on its own. You don't have to make one, but it's so simple you might as well if you have access to a welder to zap it in place. It's essentially a piece of flat stock 0.2"x0.4"x0.4" that is either screwed in place or welded.

toshbar
02-28-2010, 23:01
Update

Still no bullet guide...still no problems feeding after about 300 rounds. 100 or so of that being bump fire.