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djegators
02-14-2010, 08:46
Strongly considering one of these, but can only afford the "basic" model. If I get this:

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=r-lrb-556&cat=47&page=1&search=&since=&status=


...looks like the main thing I will not be getting is the rail hand guards, which is not that important to me, and I can add later. Or is it well worth it to save up the additional $500 to $600 to go up a notch?


Also considering the BCM middy, either the Recce or not, might be a small difference in price, but seems real close, with all options considered.

Whaddya think?

Randolph da man
02-14-2010, 10:13
save a little more $$ and get the railed version.

you cannot go wrong with a Noveske. period.

phxfa
02-14-2010, 18:38
Noveske is still offering there blem stripped lowers with an upper purchase, did that with my 6.8 and saved a little cash

pierce195
02-14-2010, 18:47
I went with basic to have the front sight post and changed the hand guards out. Couldn't be happier and my feer lower should be here this week.

gleasonb
02-14-2010, 23:37
Good point about the lower, get the railed upper (!!!or VIS upper!!!) and free lower and throw a LPK in it and be GTG .
Or do what I did, I got a complete rifle and the extra lower.

mikeyU
02-14-2010, 23:41
If I had the cash, I would have a Noveske in order, and yes I would get the railed model.

nsabjg
02-15-2010, 04:02
Noveske makes a nice rifle. Get what you want the first time.

crazymoose
02-15-2010, 04:16
Centurion Arms and Bravo Company get their hammer-forged blanks from the same supplier as Noveske. Since barrel quality is basically the only thing which sets Noveske apart in the first place, it may be food for thought...

DaxE
02-15-2010, 07:56
They might come from the same place but they are not the same barrels at all. Noveske barrels gets made at the same place, but by diffrent designs and tooling after hours from what I am to understand. There is an article somewhere about it if you search around.

Centurion Arms and Bravo Company get their hammer-forged blanks from the same supplier as Noveske. Since barrel quality is basically the only thing which sets Noveske apart in the first place, it may be food for thought...

Mayhem like Me
02-15-2010, 08:48
I would go basic and put a Larue rail on it, my NOVESKE middy is very front heavy, their rails are stout but very heavy.

Biggy1
02-15-2010, 13:07
I like my Noveske N4 basic middy and plan on getting the Magpul midlenght MOE handguards for it this spring.

Kegel
02-15-2010, 13:37
Centurion Arms and Bravo Company get their hammer-forged blanks from the same supplier as Noveske. Since barrel quality is basically the only thing which sets Noveske apart in the first place, it may be food for thought...


Clueless......

shineybore
02-15-2010, 15:53
:couch:Save your money and get a DPMS.























Just kidding. Noveske is a fine AR. You won't go wrong.

trifecta
02-15-2010, 15:59
:couch:Save your money and get a DPMS.






Just kidding. Noveske is a fine AR. You won't go wrong.

Reporting DPMS humor to AlaskaPoPo. Please report to him for public flogging.

djegators
02-15-2010, 23:32
Any other thoughts on the basic vs the FSR (rails)?

What about the low profile? Looks cool, but it is desirable to have front and rear flip up sights, rather than the normal AR type?

crazymoose
02-16-2010, 01:30
Clueless......

No, it is apparently you who are clueless, at least with regard to the AR-15 industry.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=29295

The moderator "SMGLee" from that link reports on and tests all kinds of products in the firearms industry. I've never known him to get his facts wrong. In that link, he cites the Centurion barrel blanks as being supplied by Noveske's source. He has made the same claim about BCM's hammer forged blanks before, but I can't find the link.

The AR-15 manufacturing world works like this: there are a handful of manufacturers producing the vast majority of barrel blanks, and a handful of manufacturers producing virtually all of the receiver forgings and small parts.

Let's look at CMT as an example. CMT (mother company to Stag) produces various AR-15 parts, including bolt group components. Noveske gets his parts kits from CMT, as do some lesser manufacturers. The difference is that Noveske has fairly stringent specs (e.g. a shot-peened, HP tested, MP tested bolt), whereas an inferior company demands less stringently tested components.

With regard to barrels, it's a similar situation. A barrel manufacturer will produce blanks, and then either chamber and contour them to the customer's specs, or ship them to the customer for the contouring to be done in house.

Thus, we can see that I was indeed not talking out of my ass when I stated that it really is barrel quality which sets Noveske apart. His rifle-building model is to use what are effectively (though not officially) mil-spec parts, better-than-mil-spec barrels, and to have competent people assemble those parts. This is also how Bravo Co. and the rest of the top tier/boutique AR manufacturers operate; they buy "mil-spec" parts from CMT, high end barrels, and assemble them properly.

One could buy uppers from BCM or Noveske whose barrels come from the same manufacturer, and whose small parts come from the same manufacturer, built to the same specs. The only real differences between the two will be price and barrel profile. All things equal, I like Noveske's N4 profile better than the profiles offered by Bravo Co. and Centurion, but not hundreds of dollars better.

To the OP: If it were my money, I'd buy a BCM hammer-forged mid-length upper and drop either an VLTOR CASV-M or a D.D. Omega rail on it, and call it a day.

HAIL CAESAR
02-16-2010, 04:35
No, it is apparently you who are clueless.

He usually is.

Kegel
02-16-2010, 16:49
No, it is apparently you who are clueless, at least with regard to the AR-15 industry.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=29295

The moderator "SMGLee" from that link reports on and tests all kinds of products in the firearms industry. I've never known him to get his facts wrong. In that link, he cites the Centurion barrel blanks as being supplied by Noveske's source. He has made the same claim about BCM's hammer forged blanks before, but I can't find the link.

The AR-15 manufacturing world works like this: there are a handful of manufacturers producing the vast majority of barrel blanks, and a handful of manufacturers producing virtually all of the receiver forgings and small parts.

Let's look at CMT as an example. CMT (mother company to Stag) produces various AR-15 parts, including bolt group components. Noveske gets his parts kits from CMT, as do some lesser manufacturers. The difference is that Noveske has fairly stringent specs (e.g. a shot-peened, HP tested, MP tested bolt), whereas an inferior company demands less stringently tested components.

With regard to barrels, it's a similar situation. A barrel manufacturer will produce blanks, and then either chamber and contour them to the customer's specs, or ship them to the customer for the contouring to be done in house.

Thus, we can see that I was indeed not talking out of my ass when I stated that it really is barrel quality which sets Noveske apart. His rifle-building model is to use what are effectively (though not officially) mil-spec parts, better-than-mil-spec barrels, and to have competent people assemble those parts. This is also how Bravo Co. and the rest of the top tier/boutique AR manufacturers operate; they buy "mil-spec" parts from CMT, high end barrels, and assemble them properly.

One could buy uppers from BCM or Noveske whose barrels come from the same manufacturer, and whose small parts come from the same manufacturer, built to the same specs. The only real differences between the two will be price and barrel profile. All things equal, I like Noveske's N4 profile better than the profiles offered by Bravo Co. and Centurion, but not hundreds of dollars better.

To the OP: If it were my money, I'd buy a BCM hammer-forged mid-length upper and drop either an VLTOR CASV-M or a D.D. Omega rail on it, and call it a day.


SIT, boy.

Kegel
02-16-2010, 16:49
He usually is.

Kill the neighbors yet?

1811guy
02-16-2010, 20:48
No, it is apparently you who are clueless, at least with regard to the AR-15 industry.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=29295

The moderator "SMGLee" from that link reports on and tests all kinds of products in the firearms industry. I've never known him to get his facts wrong. In that link, he cites the Centurion barrel blanks as being supplied by Noveske's source. He has made the same claim about BCM's hammer forged blanks before, but I can't find the link.

The AR-15 manufacturing world works like this: there are a handful of manufacturers producing the vast majority of barrel blanks, and a handful of manufacturers producing virtually all of the receiver forgings and small parts.

Let's look at CMT as an example. CMT (mother company to Stag) produces various AR-15 parts, including bolt group components. Noveske gets his parts kits from CMT, as do some lesser manufacturers. The difference is that Noveske has fairly stringent specs (e.g. a shot-peened, HP tested, MP tested bolt), whereas an inferior company demands less stringently tested components.

With regard to barrels, it's a similar situation. A barrel manufacturer will produce blanks, and then either chamber and contour them to the customer's specs, or ship them to the customer for the contouring to be done in house.

Thus, we can see that I was indeed not talking out of my ass when I stated that it really is barrel quality which sets Noveske apart. His rifle-building model is to use what are effectively (though not officially) mil-spec parts, better-than-mil-spec barrels, and to have competent people assemble those parts. This is also how Bravo Co. and the rest of the top tier/boutique AR manufacturers operate; they buy "mil-spec" parts from CMT, high end barrels, and assemble them properly.

One could buy uppers from BCM or Noveske whose barrels come from the same manufacturer, and whose small parts come from the same manufacturer, built to the same specs. The only real differences between the two will be price and barrel profile. All things equal, I like Noveske's N4 profile better than the profiles offered by Bravo Co. and Centurion, but not hundreds of dollars better.

To the OP: If it were my money, I'd buy a BCM hammer-forged mid-length upper and drop either an VLTOR CASV-M or a D.D. Omega rail on it, and call it a day.

Good explanation, however, in addition to a custom contour, Noveske also has a proprietary chamber, whereas BCM uses a standard 5.56 chambering. Noveske's muzzle and crown are also different. Centurion is a stand up company with excellent barrels. They get their Mk12 and Recce barrel blanks from Douglas Barrels - the military contract for the SPR Mk12 mod1. BCM barrels are of similar quality and orign. Can't go wrong with any of the three. Having shot BCM and Noveske, I will stick with the Noveske.

I built my SPR on a Noveske lower with a Noveske SPR barrel (with their low profile block and FH). I built everything else to their specs (the 1st gen model that came with the LaRue rail). I later changed the grip and stock out with a Magpul Miad and UBR. I saved several hundred dollars over what it would have cost to buy a complete SPR.

RWBlue
02-16-2010, 21:18
Noveske, is great people to work with. They did exactly what they said they would do.

The barrels blanks are the same. The barrel finished product is different.

If you want a complete rifle to show, I don't think you can do any better.

If you want a rifle to go, and don't have a lot of green, I think you can do better.

HAIL CAESAR
02-16-2010, 21:23
Kill the neighbors yet?

Nope. Have you ever learned anything thing about guns and ballistics? Anything at all?? I think not.
Learn anything??Especially about the Noveske you tout so much about, that you had no idea about till a few months ago and a GT forum member told you about them???
And now in your non experience tells you they are the best thing since transistor radios??
:rofl:

Kabarred
02-16-2010, 22:34
No, it is apparently you who are clueless, at least with regard to the AR-15 industry.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=29295

The moderator "SMGLee" from that link reports on and tests all kinds of products in the firearms industry. I've never known him to get his facts wrong. In that link, he cites the Centurion barrel blanks as being supplied by Noveske's source. He has made the same claim about BCM's hammer forged blanks before, but I can't find the link.

The AR-15 manufacturing world works like this: there are a handful of manufacturers producing the vast majority of barrel blanks, and a handful of manufacturers producing virtually all of the receiver forgings and small parts.

Let's look at CMT as an example. CMT (mother company to Stag) produces various AR-15 parts, including bolt group components. Noveske gets his parts kits from CMT, as do some lesser manufacturers. The difference is that Noveske has fairly stringent specs (e.g. a shot-peened, HP tested, MP tested bolt), whereas an inferior company demands less stringently tested components.

With regard to barrels, it's a similar situation. A barrel manufacturer will produce blanks, and then either chamber and contour them to the customer's specs, or ship them to the customer for the contouring to be done in house.

Thus, we can see that I was indeed not talking out of my ass when I stated that it really is barrel quality which sets Noveske apart. His rifle-building model is to use what are effectively (though not officially) mil-spec parts, better-than-mil-spec barrels, and to have competent people assemble those parts. This is also how Bravo Co. and the rest of the top tier/boutique AR manufacturers operate; they buy "mil-spec" parts from CMT, high end barrels, and assemble them properly.

One could buy uppers from BCM or Noveske whose barrels come from the same manufacturer, and whose small parts come from the same manufacturer, built to the same specs. The only real differences between the two will be price and barrel profile. All things equal, I like Noveske's N4 profile better than the profiles offered by Bravo Co. and Centurion, but not hundreds of dollars better.





To the OP: If it were my money, I'd buy a BCM hammer-forged mid-length upper and drop either an VLTOR CASV-M or a D.D. Omega rail on it, and call it a day.



good info:wavey:

GlockSupremacy
02-17-2010, 01:36
No, it is apparently you who are clueless, at least with regard to the AR-15 industry.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=29295

The moderator "SMGLee" from that link reports on and tests all kinds of products in the firearms industry. I've never known him to get his facts wrong. In that link, he cites the Centurion barrel blanks as being supplied by Noveske's source. He has made the same claim about BCM's hammer forged blanks before, but I can't find the link.

The AR-15 manufacturing world works like this: there are a handful of manufacturers producing the vast majority of barrel blanks, and a handful of manufacturers producing virtually all of the receiver forgings and small parts.

Let's look at CMT as an example. CMT (mother company to Stag) produces various AR-15 parts, including bolt group components. Noveske gets his parts kits from CMT, as do some lesser manufacturers. The difference is that Noveske has fairly stringent specs (e.g. a shot-peened, HP tested, MP tested bolt), whereas an inferior company demands less stringently tested components.

With regard to barrels, it's a similar situation. A barrel manufacturer will produce blanks, and then either chamber and contour them to the customer's specs, or ship them to the customer for the contouring to be done in house.

Thus, we can see that I was indeed not talking out of my ass when I stated that it really is barrel quality which sets Noveske apart. His rifle-building model is to use what are effectively (though not officially) mil-spec parts, better-than-mil-spec barrels, and to have competent people assemble those parts. This is also how Bravo Co. and the rest of the top tier/boutique AR manufacturers operate; they buy "mil-spec" parts from CMT, high end barrels, and assemble them properly.

One could buy uppers from BCM or Noveske whose barrels come from the same manufacturer, and whose small parts come from the same manufacturer, built to the same specs. The only real differences between the two will be price and barrel profile. All things equal, I like Noveske's N4 profile better than the profiles offered by Bravo Co. and Centurion, but not hundreds of dollars better.

To the OP: If it were my money, I'd buy a BCM hammer-forged mid-length upper and drop either an VLTOR CASV-M or a D.D. Omega rail on it, and call it a day.

.owned

I love info like this.

To the op: BCM or Noveske is my next purchase, if that tells you anything. I am actually leaning toward bcm because resale means nothing to me.

crazymoose
02-17-2010, 02:04
Good explanation, however, in addition to a custom contour, Noveske also has a proprietary chamber, whereas BCM uses a standard 5.56 chambering. Noveske's muzzle and crown are also different. Centurion is a stand up company with excellent barrels. They get their Mk12 and Recce barrel blanks from Douglas Barrels - the military contract for the SPR Mk12 mod1. BCM barrels are of similar quality and orign. Can't go wrong with any of the three. Having shot BCM and Noveske, I will stick with the Noveske.

I built my SPR on a Noveske lower with a Noveske SPR barrel (with their low profile block and FH). I built everything else to their specs (the 1st gen model that came with the LaRue rail). I later changed the grip and stock out with a Magpul Miad and UBR. I saved several hundred dollars over what it would have cost to buy a complete SPR.

I agree with you about the Noveske chambers being a nice touch. However, I believe (though I could be wrong) that the Match Mod 0 chambers are only found on the Noveske stainless barrels. I do have a couple of rifles built on Novske SS barrels, and I'm really happy with the accuracy. I'm not sure exactly how his chambers differ from something like a .223 Wylde, but they seem to give good accuracy and very good reliability.

That said, for a high round count/defensive gun/all around beater, where accuracy is not the overriding concern, I like a looser 5.56mm chamber, which I believe Noveske's hammer-forged barrels have (like the BCM and Centurion).


ETA: I didn't post in this thread to crap on Noveske. My point is just that there's no magic in the AR-15 industry, once you get past the hype and mystique. Noveske makes a great rifle out of top-end parts, but he's not the only one.

1811guy
02-17-2010, 13:30
I agree with you about the Noveske chambers being a nice touch. However, I believe (though I could be wrong) that the Match Mod 0 chambers are only found on the Noveske stainless barrels. I do have a couple of rifles built on Novske SS barrels, and I'm really happy with the accuracy. I'm not sure exactly how his chambers differ from something like a .223 Wylde, but they seem to give good accuracy and very good reliability.

That said, for a high round count/defensive gun/all around beater, where accuracy is not the overriding concern, I like a looser 5.56mm chamber, which I believe Noveske's hammer-forged barrels have (like the BCM and Centurion).


ETA: I didn't post in this thread to crap on Noveske. My point is just that there's no magic in the AR-15 industry, once you get past the hype and mystique. Noveske makes a great rifle out of top-end parts, but he's not the only one.

You are correct that their hammer forged barrel (such as on the N4 light) is a 5.56 chamber. Unfortunately, you have to buy the whole upper or a complete rifle to get one. I agree with you on the quality rifle issue - lots of good manufacturers out there: BCM, LaRue, Noveske - it has made putting a high quality AR together much easier and less expensive.

stopatrain
02-17-2010, 22:29
Noveske = poor customer service. Tried to buy a gun from them they were no help.

HAIL CAESAR
02-17-2010, 22:33
Noveske = poor customer service. Tried to buy a gun from them they were no help.

There has to be more to the story than that...

They are known for outstanding service, even when the buyer is an idiot.

HAIL CAESAR
02-17-2010, 22:46
I mean come on man, you can't come on the site and make a big announcement like "there CS is poor" and not give specifics. Even if it is a crappy company you have to give them a fair shake.

Narc1911
02-17-2010, 23:03
Noveske = poor customer service. Tried to buy a gun from them they were no help.

I'm calling BS on this unless you explain your story.

I have purchased plenty from Noveske and they have always been absolutely fantastic.

HAIL CAESAR
02-17-2010, 23:06
I'm calling BS on this unless you explain your story.

I have purchased plenty from Noveske and they have always been absolutely fantastic.

I have talked to them many times, believe me they bend over backwards for folks...even for fools, idiots, and zippies that shouldn't even own a gun.

phxfa
02-17-2010, 23:12
Noveske= A1 in my book

RWBlue
02-17-2010, 23:33
I mean come on man, you can't come on the site and make a big announcement like "there CS is poor" and not give specifics. Even if it is a crappy company you have to give them a fair shake.

I would like to hear the story behind this statement.

They were very helpful for my purchase.

djegators
02-17-2010, 23:55
Gotta love a guy who was posted less than 30 times in 4.5 years, magically appearing to post something very negative.

AK_Stick
02-18-2010, 00:02
Aren't all or is it just the stainless Noveske's that are polygonaly rifled?

crazymoose
02-18-2010, 00:04
Aren't all or is it just the stainless Noveske's that are polygonaly rifled?

Just the stainless. It's also not really a true polygonal, but I still like it better than land-and-groove rifling.

glockmancustom32
02-18-2010, 00:06
Strongly considering one of these, but can only afford the "basic" model. If I get this:

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=r-lrb-556&cat=47&page=1&search=&since=&status=


...looks like the main thing I will not be getting is the rail hand guards, which is not that important to me, and I can add later. Or is it well worth it to save up the additional $500 to $600 to go up a notch?


Also considering the BCM middy, either the Recce or not, might be a small difference in price, but seems real close, with all options considered.

Whaddya think?

I like Noveske but I recommend POF or LWRC personally, You can get great deals on gunbroker.com for either.

Kahrguy330
02-18-2010, 01:55
I love my Noveske recce. I can't say anything that hasn't already been said about Noveske rifleworks.

Randolph da man
02-18-2010, 05:33
I like Noveske but I recommend POF or LWRC personally, You can get great deals on gunbroker.com for either.


arent both of those piston rifles ? :rofl:

stopatrain
02-18-2010, 06:09
My experience was this: The gentleman I spoke with was not very knowledgeable about their products and did not seem to want to go the extra mile to find out. One question I asked, is your bolt MPI and HPT tested. He thought it was, but I could tell he was not sure. I emailed them twice asking that question and received no response. I now believe it is not HPT tested. I was a heart beat away from purchasing a Rifle from them but chose my other option. I believe Noveske makes a good Rifle or they would not have been on my list of two. This is just my experience and for me they dropped the ball. Maybe poor was to strong of a word to use. Normal CS would be more accurate these days. I guess I was expecting great CS.

Glockaholic
02-18-2010, 12:55
Noveske= A1 in my book

+1 here!!

RWBlue
02-18-2010, 20:34
My experience was this: The gentleman I spoke with was not very knowledgeable about their products and did not seem to want to go the extra mile to find out. One question I asked, is your bolt MPI and HPT tested. He thought it was, but I could tell he was not sure. I emailed them twice asking that question and received no response. I now believe it is not HPT tested. I was a heart beat away from purchasing a Rifle from them but chose my other option. I believe Noveske makes a good Rifle or they would not have been on my list of two. This is just my experience and for me they dropped the ball. Maybe poor was to strong of a word to use. Normal CS would be more accurate these days. I guess I was expecting great CS.

I have no clue if your pissed them off when you talked to them or if they were having a bad day, but your experience is just opposite of mine.

stopatrain
02-18-2010, 21:30
I have no clue if your pissed them off when you talked to them or if they were having a bad day, but your experience is just opposite of mine.

I did not have the same experience as you so it must be my fault.

Javelin
02-18-2010, 22:21
Noveske = poor customer service. Tried to buy a gun from them they were no help.

When you make a joke you are supposed to put a :whistling: after it.

:wavey:

RWBlue
02-18-2010, 23:10
I did not have the same experience as you so it must be my fault.

Based on your posts here,..... well.

I also said that maybe they were having a bad day. Your experience doesn't match my experience and that of others.

Additionally, what you describe as bad customer service is not bad customer service. It would be bad sales. If you made a purchase, and it failed and they were not returning your phone calls and emails .....that would be bad customer service. It sounds to me like they made a conscious decision that they didn't need/want your money.

gleasonb
02-18-2010, 23:15
Ann @ Noveske was great to deal with. Theyll have all my AR business from now on

glockmancustom32
02-18-2010, 23:43
arent both of those piston rifles ? :rofl:


What would be wrong with that Rudolph?

stopatrain
02-19-2010, 08:06
Customer service is the activity of supplying or providing service to customers before, during and after a purchase. The person I spoke with delivered poor customer service and did not earn my business. I did nothing to deserve poor customer service. No Company provides 100% good customer service. On that day and that call they did not.

gleasonb
02-19-2010, 08:53
So this -
Noveske = poor customer service. Tried to buy a gun from them they were no help.

Equeals this -

Customer service is the activity of supplying or providing service to customers before, during and after a purchase. The person I spoke with delivered poor customer service and did not earn my business. I did nothing to deserve poor customer service. No Company provides 100% good customer service. On that day and that call they did not.
??

HAIL CAESAR
02-19-2010, 08:55
Customer service is the activity of supplying or providing service to customers before, during and after a purchase. The person I spoke with delivered poor customer service and did not earn my business. I did nothing to deserve poor customer service. No Company provides 100% good customer service. On that day and that call they did not.

Oh well, that left another rifle for someone else.
I talked to them one time about getting my rifle as it was running a little late. I talked to three different folks there and they all had the same story.

They have racks of returns from idiots that ( :faint:) it took a whole 6 clicks of windage to zero their rifle. And LORD knows that is not acceptable for staring at in your underwear and posting pics of.:whistling:

One zipperhead that posts on another forum with all his Barbie Dolls on a couch lined up returned his because Barbie's dress didn't perfectly match her shoes and that was totally unacceptable to take purdy pics to post on the moron-net. ( The upper was a shade different color than the lower and it only showed up under the right camera and light angles. But he couldn't have that, could he)

A gun was returned because it looked like a wrench was actually taken to a castle nut!!!!

Guns were returned because if you held the rifle up the the light just right you could see were the barrel was buffed from a front sight tower or block was installed.:wow:

Noveske took all them back without a word. On a side note some rifles were painted up like French whores with every nook, cranny, and rollmark jammed with toenail polish like little sissies.

I swear some folks ought to consider Euthanasia and help the human race save air. Either that or take up their real calling and play with Barbie Dolls which is what they want anyway instead of rifles, but they haven't figured to open the door to the closet yet.:whistling:

I recommend a rafter, rope, and rickety chair for them folks to get off my planet.


Anyway I told them to box up one of those "defective" junker guns and send it my way as I use my rifles and I don't play with dolls. Noveske said many times they wish they could sell only to Military and LEO because they know what they want and use there guns for shooting, not for Saturday teas party picture taking for the moron-net.:wavey:

TimP
02-19-2010, 09:01
Oh well, that left another rifle for someone else.
I talked to them one time about getting my rifle as it was running a little late. I talked to three different folks there and they all had the same story.

They have racks of returns from idiots that ( OMG) it took a whole 6 clicks of windage to zero their rifle. And LORD knows that is not acceptable.:whistling:

One zipperhead that posts on another forum with all his Barbie Dolls on a couch lined up returned his because Barbie's dress didn't perfectly match her shoes and that was totally unacceptable to take purdy pics to post on the moron-net. ( The upper was a shade different color than the lower and it only showed up under the right camera and light angles. But he couldn't have that, could he)

A gun was returned because it looked like a wrench was actually taken to a castle nut!!!!

Guns were returned because if you held the rifle up the the light just right you could see were the barrel was buffed from a front sight tower or block was installed.:wow:

Noveske took all them back without a word. On a side note some rifles were painted up like French whores with every nook, cranny, and rollmark jammed with toenail polish like little sissies.

I swear some folks ought to consider euthanasia and help the human race save air. Either that or take up their real calling and play with Barbie Dolls which is what they want anyway instead of rifles, but they haven't figured to open the door to the closet yet.:whistling:

I recommend a rafter, rope, and rickety chair for them folks to get off my planet.


Anyway I told them to box up one of those "defective" junker guns and send it my way as I use my rifles and I don't play with dolls. Noveske said many times they wish they could sell only to Military and LEO because they know what they want and use there guns for shooting, not for Saturday teas party picture taking for the moron-net.:wavey:

truth! :wavey:

RWBlue
02-19-2010, 10:04
HAIL CAESAR, that is what happens when you sell a product that is on the high end of the price spectrum for a certain item. Where that item is more about bragging rights than actually doing the job. (Yes, I have a problem with people who think looks are more important then content.)

This goes back to my original statement. If you want a rifle for bragging rights then they ARE the place to go. If I was a LEO organization which can not build their own guns for legal reasons they are one of a few places to go. If you want a gun to shoot, plan on painting it cammo, don't care if you get scratched, then you can save money by buying components and putting them together.

HAIL CAESAR
02-19-2010, 10:33
HAIL CAESAR, that is what happens when you sell a product that is on the high end of the price spectrum for a certain item. Where that item is more about bragging rights than actually doing the job. (Yes, I have a problem with people who think looks are more important then content.)

This goes back to my original statement. If you want a rifle for bragging rights then they ARE the place to go. If I was a LEO organization which can not build their own guns for legal reasons they are one of a few places to go. If you want a gun to shoot, plan on painting it cammo, don't care if you get scratched, then you can save money by buying components and putting them together.

I hear you and agree. At the time I wanted the barrel and that was the only way to get it. Now I see I can get the N4 barrel elsewhere for cheaper and would go that route if legalities permitted.

But you have to agree that some folks are idiots for returning a rifle because it took 6 clicks from mechanical center to zero a rifle. I'm telling you they should have Barbie and Ken dolls and leave rifles to grown men.

crazymoose
02-19-2010, 13:26
HAIL CAESAR, that is what happens when you sell a product that is on the high end of the price spectrum for a certain item. Where that item is more about bragging rights than actually doing the job. (Yes, I have a problem with people who think looks are more important then content.)

This goes back to my original statement. If you want a rifle for bragging rights then they ARE the place to go. If I was a LEO organization which can not build their own guns for legal reasons they are one of a few places to go. If you want a gun to shoot, plan on painting it cammo, don't care if you get scratched, then you can save money by buying components and putting them together.

This is why I think Rock River sells so many rifles. When you hold a Rock River next to a Colt, sure, the Rock River is prettier. Most people who buy AR-15s know nothing about what materials and processes should be used in the manufacture (or it doesn't even occur to them that there is any difference between brands in these regards), and buy based on a combination of looks and price.

Bowhunter2001
02-19-2010, 14:46
Centurion Arms and Bravo Company get their hammer-forged blanks from the same supplier as Noveske. Since barrel quality is basically the only thing which sets Noveske apart in the first place, it may be food for thought...

Here is an inteview with John Noveske on his barrels. Same company but that is it. Everything else is different and that is why his is the best!

Noveske: Our stainless barrels are made partially in ourshop and partially in Pac-Nor’s (http://www.pac-nor.com/) shop. And, the relationship that I have with Pac-Nor (http://www.pac-nor.com/)…I used to work there, and now what’s goin’ on is I buy steel, I take it to Pac-Nor, when the guys clock out of Pac-Nor (http://www.pac-nor.com/), they clock into our barrel production. They machine my blanks with our tooling, which is all made to our design, including the drills, reamers, button, so forth, so on. They stress-relieve to our recipe, and then they give the barrels back to us, and then we finish them all in our shop.
Crane: What type of stainless are they using?
Noveske: Well, they use 416 project 70. I use a different type of material.
Crane: And what about the standard steel barrels? What kind of steel is that?
http://noveskerifleworks.com/imimg/r-lclp-556_4d.jpg (http://noveskerifleworks.com/imimg/r-lclp-556_4d.jpg)
Noveske: Let me back up. You can’t call the barrel that we make a Pac-Nor (http://www.pac-nor.com/) barrel, because if you call Pac-Nor and order a stainless barrel, it’s gonna’ be much different. It’s gonna’ be different in every way from the barrel I sell. So when you say "what kind of materal do they use?", last time I checked, Pac-Nor uses 416 project 70 made by Carpenter, and I use a different material which is technically considered 416R, and it’s a lot harder than any stainless we’ve ever tested from other manufacturers. Our stainless comes in around 32 on the Rockwell C scale, and that’s harder even than the call-out for the M16 barrel.

Bowhunter2001
02-19-2010, 14:55
Noveske = poor customer service. Tried to buy a gun from them they were no help.

Talk to Joel. I bothered him many times (emails and phone calls). He answered my questions everytime for weeks. He just shipped out my Noveske N4 Recon 16" stainless rifle with the Geissele SSA two stage trigger. I must have asked him at least 50 questions.
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x265/Bowhunter2001/r-16-556_1d.jpg

Randolph da man
02-19-2010, 15:11
truth! :wavey:

and well said :wavey::wavey:

Constructor
02-19-2010, 18:37
Pac Nor uses 416 R stainless, R stands for resulphurized to make it easier to machine and not as brittle as 410. Hart has the hardest stainless I have ever cut.

CRUCIBLE 416R

Crucible 416R is a pre-hardened chromium stainless steel which is suitable for use in precision match-grade rifle barrels. It can be supplied in various hardness ranges according to your specific requirements ( HRC 24/28, 28/32, or 32/36). Crucible 416R was specifically designed by Crucible engineers in collaboration with barrel makers and rifle manufacturers to provide consistency, high quality and the following characteristics:
Good machinability for gun drilling and reaming, plus excellent polishability for uniform lapping, necessary for bore accuracy.
A homogeneous microstructure which responds to heat treat providing a uniform hardness along the length of the bar, necessary for accurate button rifling to precise groove dimensions.
An optimum combination of high tensile strength along with adequate toughness to withstand the typical chamber pressures encountered during firing.
Good corrosion resistance to inhibit rusting and which also helps to minimize fouling. Crucible 416R provides a durable finish which does not pit when properly maintained.
Precision straightened and stress relieved bars, either mill length or mult length, ready to be cut to length and gun drilled.
100% ultrasonic testing for reliable barrels.
Crucible 416R stainless steel is manufactured using very stringent controls from initial melting, through hot rolling, heat treating, cold finishing and final bar inspection. Barrels made from Crucible 416R are used at all levels of competition and in all conditions dry, damp or salty. Although all martensitic stainless steels have reduced ductility at very low temperatures, Crucible 416R can be safely used down to minus 40°F (-40°C).

Typical Chemistry
Carbon 0.12%
Chromium 12.50%
Manganese 0.40%
Phosphorus 0.03%
Sulfur 0.13%
Silicon 0.40%
Molybdenum 0.40%

Kegel
02-19-2010, 19:44
The moral of the story here is this: if you want a rifle with no attention to detail and sloppy workmanship but fires most of the time (minus the occasional bolt explosion), get a colt. If you want a rifle with excpetional workmanship, a superior barrel made with superiorl steel and assembled by someone who actually cares, get a Noveske.

Or ask yourself this: if you are reaching for a rifle and your life depnded on it....on the table in front of you is a 2300.00 Noveske Recce and a 1200 Colt which would you grab? The colt, of course. Sure!

djegators
02-19-2010, 23:33
The moral of the story here is this: if you want a rifle with no attention to detail and sloppy workmanship but fires most of the time (minus the occasional bolt explosion), get a colt. If you want a rifle with excpetional workmanship, a superior barrel made with superiorl steel and assembled by someone who actually cares, get a Noveske.

Or ask yourself this: if you are reaching for a rifle and your life depnded on it....on the table in front of you is a 2300.00 Noveske Recce and a 1200 Colt which would you grab? The colt, of course. Sure!

Few will question that Colt is a top tier AR manufacturer, but why would you assume everyone will choose it over a Noveske when its life or death? How does having a better barrel, better workmanship, and being assembled with care make them less reliable, or inspire less confidence in those who use them? Maybe you are being sarcastic and I just am not getting it. Could be, been a very long day.

HAIL CAESAR
02-20-2010, 00:11
The moral of the story here is this: if you want a rifle with no attention to detail and sloppy workmanship but fires most of the time (minus the occasional bolt explosion), get a colt. If you want a rifle with excpetional workmanship, a superior barrel made with superiorl steel and assembled by someone who actually cares, get a Noveske.

Or ask yourself this: if you are reaching for a rifle and your life depnded on it....on the table in front of you is a 2300.00 Noveske Recce and a 1200 Colt which would you grab? The colt, of course. Sure!

And how many Colt's have you owned over a couple decades?? None..

And how many Noveske's....Just one for a couple months....and how much training and rounds have you put though it???

crazymoose
02-20-2010, 02:05
Here is an inteview with John Noveske on his barrels. Same company but that is it. Everything else is different and that is why his is the best!

Noveske: Our stainless barrels are made partially in ourshop and partially in Pac-Nor’s (http://www.pac-nor.com/) shop. And, the relationship that I have with Pac-Nor (http://www.pac-nor.com/)…I used to work there, and now what’s goin’ on is I buy steel, I take it to Pac-Nor, when the guys clock out of Pac-Nor (http://www.pac-nor.com/), they clock into our barrel production. They machine my blanks with our tooling, which is all made to our design, including the drills, reamers, button, so forth, so on. They stress-relieve to our recipe, and then they give the barrels back to us, and then we finish them all in our shop.
Crane: What type of stainless are they using?
Noveske: Well, they use 416 project 70. I use a different type of material.
Crane: And what about the standard steel barrels? What kind of steel is that?
http://noveskerifleworks.com/imimg/r-lclp-556_4d.jpg (http://noveskerifleworks.com/imimg/r-lclp-556_4d.jpg)
Noveske: Let me back up. You can’t call the barrel that we make a Pac-Nor (http://www.pac-nor.com/) barrel, because if you call Pac-Nor and order a stainless barrel, it’s gonna’ be much different. It’s gonna’ be different in every way from the barrel I sell. So when you say "what kind of materal do they use?", last time I checked, Pac-Nor uses 416 project 70 made by Carpenter, and I use a different material which is technically considered 416R, and it’s a lot harder than any stainless we’ve ever tested from other manufacturers. Our stainless comes in around 32 on the Rockwell C scale, and that’s harder even than the call-out for the M16 barrel.

In that interview, he's talking about his stainless barrels, not the hammer-forged.

The machinery for hammer-forging barrels is large and quite expensive. Due to the initial startup cost, there just aren't that many outfits banging out 5.56mm hammer-forged, 1:7 twist, 11595E CMV barrels.

FWIW, I actually like Noveske's stainless barrels more than his hammer-forged.

Kegel
02-20-2010, 06:11
In that interview, he's talking about his stainless barrels, not the hammer-forged.

The machinery for hammer-forging barrels is large and quite expensive. Due to the initial startup cost, there just aren't that many outfits banging out 5.56mm hammer-forged, 1:7 twist, 11595E CMV barrels.

FWIW, I actually like Noveske's stainless barrels more than his hammer-forged.

He speaks about both and states the accuracy difference between the two is minimal.

Bowhunter2001
02-20-2010, 09:05
He speaks about both and states the accuracy difference between the two is minimal.
You are correct. He states that the stainless barrel produces .6" groups and the other barrels are sub 1 MOA.