18.5" 5+1 vs 20" 7+1 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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CTfam
02-14-2010, 12:20
That is the question... What do you prefer and why? Are you really getting that much of a more shorter and lighter shotgun with the smaller model? Would you rather have the extra rounds?

Buds Gun Shop has the Mossberg Maverick 88 for $195 (20" 0r 18.5") and that is just too good of a deal to pass up. I already have a 500A 20" (Knoxx stock, Power pack, TLR-1) but I think my shotgun philosophy is changing... I want the smallest, lightest shotgun I can get for HD. Since this gun would only be used indoors I want a wieldy little boomstick.

Anything outside or SHTF I'll grab the AK.

Thinking about ditching the 20" Mossberg and taking the side saddle off for a light weight 5+1 Maverick + Spec-Ops.

What do you folks prefer?

MBG20
02-14-2010, 12:24
with an extension from MAX100 you can get 18.5 & 7+1...

Puppy
02-14-2010, 12:49
An additional 1.5" of length, for an additional two shells?

Personally I'd take that tiny bit of additional length to get those two additional shells in the magazine without any hesitation.

mixflip
02-14-2010, 13:07
Its all just preference. Here is my mindset and choice.

I like my mag tubes to be flush with the barrel (my personal choice not based on practicality) and on the practical side I like the extra ammo. Shotguns are inherently slow to reload compared to magazine feed handguns and rifles so more ammo, even just +2, does play a bigger role in the combat/HD shotgun world. In my opinion of course. Shotgun experts may disagree?

I am fairly strong still (late 30's) so I dont have any issues with the mentioned extra weight.

As for length, to me there is no noticeable difference between wielding a 18.5 vs 20" barreled shotgun in my house. If I were in a car maybe? I will probably never own a super short, pistol grip only, 18.5" barrel,4+1 shot shotgun?

aippi
02-14-2010, 13:19
Shorter is better for HD use. That extra 1.5 inches is not an issue untill the last inch of it hits a corner of a wall as you try to turn to address a threat. Hall ways and doors are not friendly to long guns so having a long gun that is as compact as you can have is the best option.

I can not even try to come up with any scenerio in my home when a couple of shots will not eliminate a threat. With this said, the extra ammo is not essential to an HD weapon.
If there is ever a break down in civil order, I have other weapons that will move from the gun safe to my bedside.

You are right on track with what I tell my clients about using a shotgun for HD. You came to these conclusions based on your own expirience with your current weapon and should go with what you have decided to do.

Cajun
02-14-2010, 13:39
It is all personal preference.
I just picked up an 870 with 20" and 7+1. I personally think this is the optimum mix for me and only plan on changing the sights as the rifle sights on it are difficult to pick up in less than optimum light.

I shoot and practice and train so that if I do need to use it only one shot will be necessary( hopefully that never even happens), but having 8 and not having to fumble a reload to get that is comforting. I will start practicing my reloads, but I really see that as more of a SHTF, EOTW scenerio, and like aippi says I have other options for that.

Maybe a shorter stock than the Choate that is on there, I will be able to judge that as I get more shooting time. .. what was the OP question again?

Ultimately, anything you have will work for HD.. practice and practice with what you have. KISS is best.

RMTactical
02-14-2010, 13:42
I prefer the shorter barrel. If 5 loads of buck won't do the job, will 7?

22highcaps
02-14-2010, 14:07
I started with a 20" 7+1 and went to a 18.5" and 6+1 along with a youth length stock. Shorter is better indoors.

Glockdude1
02-14-2010, 14:18
with an extension from MAX100 you can get 18.5 & 7+1...

I have already placed my order with Max100. I hope to have my new extention soon.

:cool:

hogarth
02-14-2010, 14:50
I have a 590A1 w/18.5 in barrel in 5+1 configuration and a short LOP Hogue buttstock. I'm a small guy so I like the shorter length, and the shorter length also makes it more maneuverable, in general, especially indoors. Also, the weight of a shotgun should ideally be between your hands, so having and extra 1.5 barrel plus two shells puts more weight up by the muzzle, which could make it a little slower to get on target. I should also add that I have a Surefire LED forend on mine, which is a bit heavier than stock, so I really don't want any extra weight up by the muzzle.

CTfam
02-14-2010, 17:49
Thanks for weighing in guys. A lot of good points here. I agree with RMTactical. If 5 rounds of 00 buck doesn't stop the threat than it's just not my day.

To be realistic I can't see any encounter in my tiny house taking place any further than 15 feet. If the threat is outside I'm not going out there and I'm not shooting from indoors. I could probably get away with a PG pump but I would like the option of shouldering the weapon. Maybe the Copstock folder???

I think I'm going to stick my Knoxx Spec Ops on an 18.5" Maverick 88 and call it a day. Also, ditch the extra ammo hanging off the side. Cool thing is I can pull all the gear off my 500A and it will fit. TLR-1 w/ mag tube clamp, Meprolight night sight, Knoxx Stock.

If society crumbles (any more) I will just sleep with the AK out of the safe.

After lining the two up side by side. My rifle is shorter, lighter, higher cap, less recoil, further range, etc etc etc...

CTfam
02-14-2010, 17:57
Another thought. Having the Spec Ops on the 500A is not the greatest set up due to the safety location. I love the location of the safety on the Maverick 88. Right in the front of the trigger guard where it should be! That combined with the $195 price tag AND the fact that it will fit all of my afftermarket goodies makes it a win in my book.

hardeyes
02-14-2010, 18:25
Hello;

I like my Benelli's with an 18" barrel, It just balances better for me. As to shell capacity, I believe that if you shoot 2, you should plan to reload 2 asap.

I also believe that if you're in a Gunfight with a SG, and have fired the 3 to 7th round, Everyone involved is either going to be going down (out of the fight), moving to get out of there, or seeking cover, to return fire.

Capacity, 7 vs 8 vs 9 etc, in a SG to me is not something that I stressed about.

I train to shoot & reload my Benelli's, and to carry extra shells with my SG. I know that I can stand off everything but a SWAT/Military invasion with my home defense SG.

What do I prefer; My Benelli's with GSR, regular capacity, and a way to carry extra shells, other than good training, that's probably all you'll ever need.

hardeyes

Reswob
02-14-2010, 18:51
I've been thinking about this lately (will be picking up a new gun of some sort as my b-day/tax refund present to myself), and decided if I'm going to buy an 18.5", why not just go the extra 1.5" for the 20? Then I thought, as long as I'm getting a 20", might as well be the 590 and get 8+1 instead of 7+1.

So, if I decide on a pump shotgun, it's going to either be a 20" 590 or a 14" 590 AOW.

GAFinch
02-14-2010, 18:57
I had a 20" Mossberg that I ended up selling. My next purchase is going to be an 18.5" 870 or Pardner, despite the ammo decrease. My long term HD solution is an AR anyway.

CTfam
02-14-2010, 19:32
I had a 20" Mossberg that I ended up selling. My next purchase is going to be an 18.5" 870 or Pardner, despite the ammo decrease. My long term HD solution is an AR anyway.

I hear that. My shotgun is just my "get the hell out of my house or die gun". If there is looting or riots a rifle is better in every way.

I'd still rather have a pump handy than any one of my pistols.

mixflip
02-14-2010, 20:40
Thanks for weighing in guys. A lot of good points here. I agree with RMTactical. If 5 rounds of 00 buck doesn't stop the threat than it's just not my day. I'd love to prescribe to that way of thinking but the reality (in my area anyway) is that bad guys travel in packs. Just last month a cop was shot and killed in his own garage just as he got off swing shift. He turned around and there were about 4 bad guys at his garage door that he left open. I am not saying +2 will solve all your problems by any means but I feel that a flush fitting mag extension is more of an asset than a weight & length liability in my opinion.

If society crumbles (any more) I will just sleep with the AK out of the safe.

After lining the two up side by side. My rifle is shorter, lighter, higher cap, less recoil, further range, etc etc etc...Good point. If society is crumbling I pretty much dont care about the over penetration argument at this point. As long as no one I love is on the other side of the bad guys...AK or AR for HD is fine with me too.


People over look the Maverick 88 but it really does have the optimum fire controls in my opinion too. (if you ever run a pistol grip stock)

RMTactical
02-14-2010, 20:45
If you're worried about gangs of bad guys, maybe you should look into an AR15 for HD. Same goes for if you think they would be wearing armor.

That said, when the shots start getting fired, many BG's flee ASAP. That doesn't mean that they won't shoot back. I am just saying that you won't likely come across a gang of BG's that will sit there and fight it out to the last man. BG's tend to prefer easy pickens and a shotgun wielding homeowner is not likely to fit that description.

mixflip
02-14-2010, 22:48
Good point. 1.5 inch difference between 18.5 and 20" or 2 extra rounds or not... really doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things. As for gangs? Not really worried about gangs but just a bad guy with a buddy.

Its all preference. Both setups are devastating and effective either way.

vafish
02-15-2010, 07:45
I like the balance and feel of the 18.5" barrel.

CTfam
02-15-2010, 11:56
I like the balance and feel of the 18.5" barrel.

Like the one you're holding in your avatar? :supergrin:

CTfam
02-15-2010, 12:00
People over look the Maverick 88 but it really does have the optimum fire controls in my opinion too. (if you ever run a pistol grip stock)

Hell yeah. My only beef is that the mag release is still kind of a pain but oh well. My buddy just got an 870 w/ Spec Ops. Great gun but even that safety location isn't the greatest.

The BEST shotgun controls is on the Benelli Super Nova Tactical. With a pistol grip you can index the safety and mag release. It's probably the coolest pump I've ever seen. (minus the HUGE plastic forend)

I'll get one someday but I already have Mossberg extras ready to go.

Minnow
02-15-2010, 12:03
I had a 20" 590 and swapped it for a 18.5" 590. It makes a difference to me. The latter is a more compact and balanced package.

vafish
02-15-2010, 12:14
Like the one you're holding in your avatar? :supergrin:

Like this one:

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/Guns/vafishtrapshooting.jpg

Ok that's not an 18.5" barrel.


This one:

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/Guns/08220004.jpg

David Armstrong
02-15-2010, 12:24
What do you folks prefer?
For use in the home defense role, I prefer the 18" hands-down. IME you get a lighter, easier to maneuver firearm that will take care of pretty much anything you need done. It doesn't take much to slip a couple of extra rounds into the tube if needed.

CTfam
02-15-2010, 12:33
This one:

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/Guns/08220004.jpg

Now that's a classy looking shotgun. :thumbsup: No frills with some nice wood. I like that a lot. It's refreshing to take a break from black plastic from time to time.

vafish
02-15-2010, 15:20
Now that's a classy looking shotgun. :thumbsup: No frills with some nice wood. I like that a lot. It's refreshing to take a break from black plastic from time to time.

It's got one hidden frill.

The barrel is a contract over run heavy walled barrel with screw in accu chokes.

Heavy walled barrel on the left, factory 28" Vent Rib barrel on the right.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/Guns/08220005.jpg

mixflip
02-15-2010, 17:16
Like this one:

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/Guns/08220004.jpg

I agree the old school wood furniture is much better feeling than plastic and it just look classy and cool. Looks like something a 70's cop would have in his cruiser. Very nice 500! I'd buy that.

Do they make a mag extension for the 500? To make it flush with the barrel and give you +1 shot?

vafish
02-15-2010, 19:00
Do they make a mag extension for the 500? To make it flush with the barrel and give you +1 shot?

No,

The way the 500 barrel attaches to the mag tub prevents an extension being put on. You either go with the 5+1 shot 18.5" barrel or the 7+1 shot 20" barrel.

GAFinch
02-15-2010, 20:22
I agree the old school wood furniture is much better feeling than plastic and it just look classy and cool. Looks like something a 70's cop would have in his cruiser. Very nice 500! I'd buy that.

The thing that really bugged me about the plastic furniture on Mossbergs is that there's no checkering on the grip, which sucks if your hand gets sweaty. I think that's why so many 500 owners keep looking into pistol grip stocks. Remington has the checkering, as well as the wooden Mossbergs.

CTfam
02-15-2010, 20:24
Woah, I was just posting how I was PISSED that Buds Gun Shop was sold out of the short barrel 88s and what do you know??? They're back up for $191 now. :supergrin:

I'm going to give it a shot.

I will keep my 500A and I wouldn't mind putting some wood on that piece. Have one classy looking shotgun in the safe. VAFish did you put that wood on there yourself?

GAFinch
02-15-2010, 20:29
I will keep my 500A and I wouldn't mind putting some wood on that piece. Have one classy looking shotgun in the safe. VAFish did you put that wood on there yourself?

I've seen the wooden ones in a local gun shop once or twice, the 18.5" at least. I think they're just made in limited quantities.

CTfam
02-15-2010, 20:36
On another note, if I may...

I was roaming around the gun shop today and was looking at a Browning BPS. Anyone have experience with these? Man that gun looked slick as hell with no ejection port. I think it was 5+1 with a 20" barrel? It ejects out of the bottom and has a top mounted safety (think mossberg).

My buddy was looking into a HD weapon and was asking me for advice. (I'm the local gun nut.) He is not a shooter and would probably only come to the range a few times a year. Also, has no pistol permit. I told him you can't go wrong with a pump shotgun. Only thing is... He's LEFTY. His wife is normal, I mean right handed. :kidding: So I'm thinking this would be the perfect weapon for them. Reliable, simple controls, powerful, affordable, etc. Throw a limbsaver on it and fill it with reduced recoil 00 buck and he's good.

Just a thought.

GAFinch
02-15-2010, 21:15
I've looked into the Brownings. They seem to be right on par with Remington/Mossberg/Benelli and for southpaws are a good replacement for the Ithaca 37. Harder to find accessories than for Remington or Mossberg, IF he's planning to pimp it out.

CTfam
02-15-2010, 21:35
I've looked into the Brownings. They seem to be right on par with Remington/Mossberg/Benelli and for southpaws are a good replacement for the Ithaca 37. Harder to find accessories than for Remington or Mossberg, IF he's planning to pimp it out.

Yeah I figured that. I see they aren't into "tacticool" stuff over at Browning. They are a sporting goods company. Honestly, I don't see my friend as a gun guy. I've brought him to the range once in all these years. I doubt he's going to get into pimping it out and staring at it every night. (Like me) :cool:

Probably just pick it up. Hit the range with wifey a few times and then stick it in the closet. Stock set up would be fine. I'm sure it would last him a lifetime.

I've never tried shooting lefty but I can't imagine it's fun with those shells flying past your face. Maybe it's not a big deal.... :dunno:

vafish
02-16-2010, 07:34
...VAFish did you put that wood on there yourself?


No it came with a 28" vent rib barrel, it's the hunting gun. I bought the 18.5" barrel as a close out from Havlin Sales.

acftmech
02-17-2010, 12:01
Hell yeah. My only beef is that the mag release is still kind of a pain but oh well. My buddy just got an 870 w/ Spec Ops. Great gun but even that safety location isn't the greatest.

The BEST shotgun controls is on the Benelli Super Nova Tactical. With a pistol grip you can index the safety and mag release. It's probably the coolest pump I've ever seen. (minus the HUGE plastic forend)

I'll get one someday but I already have Mossberg extras ready to go.

What he said:http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee109/acftmech_477/2010-01-22_1254371.jpg

MavsX
02-17-2010, 14:07
i have a mossberg 18.5 my buddy has a 20 inch. i just dont like that it is so freaking long....i like the shorter one(thats what she said)

longbowshooter
02-18-2010, 20:58
The thing that really bugged me about the plastic furniture on Mossbergs is that there's no checkering on the grip, which sucks if your hand gets sweaty.

May I recommend a roll of black friction tape.

Spen84107
02-18-2010, 23:25
I owned a 20" 7+1.. and couldnt' stop thinking about the 18" 5+1.. so I got rid of the prior and bought the latter. Now, I can't stop thinking about the 20" 7+1.

My solution?

By both. : )

But really. Grass is greener on the other side. Both have their advantages, and i'm not sure there is an adequate argument could really justify the purchase of one or the other.

armorplated
02-19-2010, 00:21
TI already have a 500A 20" (Knoxx stock, Power pack, TLR-1) but I think my shotgun philosophy is changing... I want the smallest, lightest shotgun I can get for HD. Since this gun would only be used indoors I want a wieldy little boomstick.

Anything outside or SHTF I'll grab the AK.

Thinking about ditching the 20" Mossberg and taking the side saddle off for a light weight 5+1 Maverick + Spec-Ops.


I think you guys spend way too much time playing computer games.

CTfam
02-19-2010, 11:10
I think you guys spend way too much time playing computer games.

Thank you for that valuable contribution. :wavey:

longbowshooter
02-22-2010, 17:25
http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac139/stevel610/Gun%20Forum/Shotgun.jpg

5 shot Savage/Stevens 67L Series E

Goes bang every time.

gnasty1521
02-25-2010, 20:17
Love my 18.5. Honestly, visually the 20" didn't do it for me. Plus as stated previously, if 6 shots doesn't do it, 8 won't do much more.

slewfoot
02-25-2010, 20:26
I prefer the shorter barrel. If 5 loads of buck won't do the job, will 7?

With that thought in mind, i bought a Mossy 500A1 today from bud's gun shop.

My 11/87 and both 870s came with the extended mag tubes. With the difference in the position of the safety, I thought the mossy should be configured different than the Remingtons, if that makes any sense to others.

Ebb27
02-27-2010, 13:16
I like the 7+1.


Hanging that extra weight under the barrel is a great way to keep the muzzle-rise down.



Plus the extra capacity is always nice to have.


Yeah I may not need those extra rounds but hey if I do I got 'em.


.......and it's a lot more convenient than fumbling around with shells in a side-saddle or on a sling.

G31
03-05-2010, 07:48
Piece of advice: if you can, get some training on using a shotgun for defense. You will see how silly and useless most of the gear people hang off their guns can be.

I have a bare bones Mav 88 18.5" for defense. I use it to shoot clays on occasion too. (Gets funny looks though :) .)