ACCURACY $ 1000 to $ 1500 1911 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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MastiffMan
02-16-2010, 14:30
45"s
STI Trojan 5.0
Dan Wesson Valor
Kimbers $1000 to $1500
Lower end Baers
Fusions
Dan Wesson P7

Is there much of a difference at 25 meters using good ammo between these pistols ??? Take out the human factor in a ranson rest .. are they all about the same for 10 shot groups.. I have owned Baers and have a Valor but no experience with the other's. I did shot a kimber Team Match one time and it was decent for sure..

hatidua
02-16-2010, 14:43
I'm guessing that BAC is the only one that can speak to having used all of those, the rest of us would simply be pushing our own favorites.

STI
02-16-2010, 14:58
STI Trojan 5.0
No others for the money

john58
02-16-2010, 16:22
TRP is very accurate, but lately the price has been closer to $1500 or slightly above that. A little over priced at that level.

Rinspeed
02-16-2010, 16:38
Les Baer is the ultimate in 1911 accuracy.

bubbaskyjacker
02-16-2010, 17:01
STI Trojan 5.0
No others for the money

they might be good but i would never buy one for the simple fact . they are ugly!!!:sorry: the big TROJAN on the slide no thanks

bac1023
02-16-2010, 17:01
In that range, you can't get a Baer with a 1.5" accuracy package, but it should still be near the top of the list.

maxniman
02-16-2010, 18:30
they might be good but i would never buy one for the simple fact . they are ugly!!!:sorry: the big TROJAN on the slide no thanks


I agree, that billboard is like nascar:rofl:

bac1023
02-16-2010, 18:46
I'm not fond of the billboard, but its an amazing $1000 1911.


http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5629/0001690ud9.jpg

itsgottabeapit
02-16-2010, 19:57
I'm not fond of the billboard, but its an amazing $1000 1911.


http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5629/0001690ud9.jpg

And it has the Texas state on the side!

bac1023
02-16-2010, 20:00
And it has the Texas state on the side!

Well, its better than all that crap Springfield stamps on their 1911s. :whistling:

Ruggles
02-16-2010, 20:01
And it has the Texas state on the side!

Yep the only state worthy of being on a 1911 slide. :tongueout:

Ruggles
02-16-2010, 20:05
I have yet to find a quality 1911 that I can outshoot consistently. I think it kinda like golf clubs, most folks blame them for their lack of success on the course but in reality it's 95% golfer 5% gear that determines the outcome. Same with quality 1911s IMO, mechanical accuracy is well beyond practical accuracy for the vast majority of shooters.

Cobra64
02-16-2010, 20:48
they might be good but i would never buy one for the simple fact . they are ugly!!!:sorry: the big TROJAN on the slide no thanks

http://di1.shopping.com/images1/pi/b9/89/4d/32262508-260x260-0-0_Trojan_Condoms_Ultra_Thin_Lubricated_12_Per_Pkg.jpg

:rofl:

Cobra64
02-16-2010, 20:54
Well, its better than all that crap Springfield stamps on their 1911s. :whistling:

Yeah, Smith & Wesson was also known for its billboard, and Ruger lawyer labels.



http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/Marks%20Smith%20and%20Wesson/1911WARNING2.jpg





http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/Marks%20Smith%20and%20Wesson/DONOTUSELEFT-2.jpg




.

glocks rock
02-16-2010, 20:59
The Baer with 1 1/2 package is going to out shoot the others mentioned in a randsome rest. Now, in my hands , I can't tell a diff. The only thing I don't like about my Baers is the trigger. It breaks very clean but is too heavy for bullseye shooting.

HAIL CAESAR
02-16-2010, 21:53
If you keep your eyeballs peeled you will find a almost LNIB 1.5 Premier II Baer for $1,500, or even under. It will be gun for gun on average the most accurate out of the box gun.

itsgottabeapit
02-16-2010, 21:55
Yep the only state worthy of being on a 1911 slide. :tongueout:

You got that right.

HAIL CAESAR
02-16-2010, 21:57
You got that right.

Don't for get Idaho. They will join Texas in the succession, if they don't do it first.:tongueout:

bac1023
02-16-2010, 22:00
Yeah, Smith & Wesson was also known for its billboard, and Ruger lawyer labels.



http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/Marks%20Smith%20and%20Wesson/1911WARNING2.jpg





http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/Marks%20Smith%20and%20Wesson/DONOTUSELEFT-2.jpg


.

:rofl:

MD357
02-16-2010, 22:18
TRP is very accurate, but lately the price has been closer to $1500 or slightly above that. A little over priced at that level.


Geez, when I say that heads explode, posts get deleted, and I get accused of being a PT1911 owner. :rofl:

bac1023
02-16-2010, 22:20
:laughabove:

GVFlyer
02-16-2010, 22:39
I have yet to find a quality 1911 that I can outshoot consistently. I think it kinda like golf clubs, most folks blame them for their lack of success on the course but in reality it's 95% golfer 5% gear that determines the outcome. Same with quality 1911s IMO, mechanical accuracy is well beyond practical accuracy for the vast majority of shooters.

Well said, Ruggles.

Rinspeed
02-17-2010, 04:11
Geez, when I say that heads explode, posts get deleted, and I get accused of being a PT1911 owner. :rofl:





:supergrin:

steve4102
02-17-2010, 06:34
Here is an accuracy test done for fun over at the Dan Wesson site.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=255555

glock2740
02-17-2010, 08:15
I have yet to find a quality 1911 that I can outshoot consistently. I think it kinda like golf clubs, most folks blame them for their lack of success on the course but in reality it's 95% golfer 5% gear that determines the outcome. Same with quality 1911s IMO, mechanical accuracy is well beyond practical accuracy for the vast majority of shooters.
Very true. It takes a ransom rest to really see what a gun is capable of.

bac1023
02-17-2010, 08:18
Very true. It takes a ransom rest to really see what a gun is capable of.

Exactly, which is why it drives me crazy when people constantly say a gun is more accurate than them. Well, no kidding, but that doesn't tell you anything about the gun's accuracy. That's what these threads are about, not shooter accuracy.

glock2740
02-17-2010, 08:41
Hey BAC, what gun is that in your avatar? Is that the new bad boy that you've were waiting on for so long?

bac1023
02-17-2010, 09:15
Hey BAC, what gun is that in your avatar? Is that the new bad boy that you've were waiting on for so long?

Yes sir. :)


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/005-1.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/026.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/028.jpg

RetailNinja
02-17-2010, 14:01
45"s
STI Trojan 5.0
Dan Wesson Valor
Kimbers $1000 to $1500
Lower end Baers
Fusions
Dan Wesson P7

Is there much of a difference at 25 meters using good ammo between these pistols ??? Take out the human factor in a ranson rest .. are they all about the same for 10 shot groups.. I have owned Baers and have a Valor but no experience with the other's. I did shot a kimber Team Match one time and it was decent for sure..

Are you going to handload for the gun? I like my Baer, but my Kimber was very accurate and reliable as well.

john58
02-17-2010, 15:42
Geez, when I say that heads explode, posts get deleted, and I get accused of being a PT1911 owner. :rofl:

Don't know what to tell you bro. I fly under the radar occasionally. :shocked: :wavey:

steve4102
02-17-2010, 15:44
Here is a breakdown of the accuracy test done over at the DW Forum. These were tested in a Ransome rest.

With that, in no specific order, here are the best groups shot by each gun tested, in inches, with each of the 3 ammo types. Ammo will be listed in the following order: Win White Box (WWB); Rem Ball (REM), and LSWC hand loads (LSWC).
WWB REM LSWC
Dan Wesson Valor 1.56 1.08 1.43
Les Baer TRS 1.17 0.96 1.39
Ed Brown Kobra 3.11 1.35 1.41
Kimber Classic Custom 3.15 1.13 1.55
Sig GSR 2.43 1.29 1.55
Colt Combat Elite 6.50 4.75 3.82
Severns Modified Valor 1.21 0.95 0.79
Fusion 9mm CBOB Group 1: 1.43 Group 2: 1.25 Group 3: 1.64

Note that, in all but two of the cases, the guns shot better using the Remington factory ball ammo than my hand loads. This is atypical, in my experience, and quite opposite from what we found out last month when testing the Commander-length pistols. Of no technical significance, but also interesting in a humorous way, is that the most and the least accurate of the guns preferred the LSWC ammo. Again, with this limited amount of testing, these observations mean little.

Looking at the average of (only) these three groups, we see the following relative rankings, in terms of group sizes, from smallest to largest:

1. Severns Modified Valor 0.98
2. Les Baer TRS 1.17
3. Dan Wesson Valor 1.36
4. Fusion CBOB 1.44
4. Sig GSR 1.76
5. Kimber Classic Custom 1.94
6. Ed Brown Kobra 1.96
7. Colt Combat Elite 5.03

RH45
02-17-2010, 15:57
Here is a breakdown of the accuracy test done over at the DW Forum. These were tested in a Ransome rest.

With that, in no specific order, here are the best groups shot by each gun tested, in inches, with each of the 3 ammo types. Ammo will be listed in the following order: Win White Box (WWB); Rem Ball (REM), and LSWC hand loads (LSWC).
WWB REM LSWC
Dan Wesson Valor 1.56 1.08 1.43
Les Baer TRS 1.17 0.96 1.39
Ed Brown Kobra 3.11 1.35 1.41
Kimber Classic Custom 3.15 1.13 1.55
Sig GSR 2.43 1.29 1.55
Colt Combat Elite 6.50 4.75 3.82
Severns Modified Valor 1.21 0.95 0.79
Fusion 9mm CBOB Group 1: 1.43 Group 2: 1.25 Group 3: 1.64



Note that, in all but two of the cases, the guns shot better using the Remington factory ball ammo than my hand loads. This is atypical, in my experience, and quite opposite from what we found out last month when testing the Commander-length pistols. Of no technical significance, but also interesting in a humorous way, is that the most and the least accurate of the guns preferred the LSWC ammo. Again, with this limited amount of testing, these observations mean little.

Looking at the average of (only) these three groups, we see the following relative rankings, in terms of group sizes, from smallest to largest:

1. Severns Modified Valor 0.98
2. Les Baer TRS 1.17
3. Dan Wesson Valor 1.36
4. Fusion CBOB 1.44
4. Sig GSR 1.76
5. Kimber Classic Custom 1.94
6. Ed Brown Kobra 1.96
7. Colt Combat Elite 5.03

It was a pretty good test, but, I would have liked to have seen him test a Baer with the 1 1/2" @ 50 yard group guarentee, instead of the standard, 3" gun, and I would have liked to have seen an STI Trojan in the mix. The .40 Trojan I have is almost as accurate as my Baer, with the 1 1/2" @ 50 yard group guarentee.

Ruggles
02-17-2010, 20:16
Exactly, which is why it drives me crazy when people constantly say a gun is more accurate than them. Well, no kidding, but that doesn't tell you anything about the gun's accuracy. That's what these threads are about, not shooter accuracy.

I guess I have always read into the question "which gun is the most accurate" as meaning "which gun will I shoot more accurately" or "which gun will I not outgrow" accuracy wise as I learn to shoot more proficiently with it. Either way it is a pointless question to me as the whole mechanical accuracy vs practical accuracy facts come into play.

I have never used a mechanical rest when shooting as I find no use to do so, although I do understand why folks do use them. My simple train of thought is shoot like you are going to really shoot so I always shoot standing or sitting "freehand". I guess since that is my mindset I read into that accuracy question with that in mind. Thus my golf club point, folks asking which clubs will make me a better golfer, as if speeding money was the way to buy yourself a better golf average. Not how it works, and the same with shooting, "better" mechanical accuracy will do nothing for you shooting freehand. Now buying training in either golf or shooting can improve you performance so spend the money there I would say instead of on gear, or spend it on more range balls or ammo. :)

In retrospect if the OP was asking about mechanical accuracy then ignore all of my previous comments.

No if you really want to see anti-accuracy watch me shoot single handed with my left hand.....ugh that is bad. I can only hope if I am ever attacked and lose the use of my right hand the guy attacking me weighs around 700 pounds, walks with a double limp and has the habit of falling asleep standing up and is with 4 feet of me if I am going left handed only :)

bac1023
02-17-2010, 20:53
I guess I have always read into the question "which gun is the most accurate" as meaning "which gun will I shoot more accurately" or "which gun will I not outgrow" accuracy wise as I learn to shoot more proficiently with it. Either way it is a pointless question to me as the whole mechanical accuracy vs practical accuracy facts come into play.

I have never used a mechanical rest when shooting as I find no use to do so, although I do understand why folks do use them. My simple train of thought is shoot like you are going to really shoot so I always shoot standing or sitting "freehand". I guess since that is my mindset I read into that accuracy question with that in mind. Thus my golf club point, folks asking which clubs will make me a better golfer, as if speeding money was the way to buy yourself a better golf average. Not how it works, and the same with shooting, "better" mechanical accuracy will do nothing for you shooting freehand. Now buying training in either golf or shooting can improve you performance so spend the money there I would say instead of on gear, or spend it on more range balls or ammo. :)

In retrospect if the OP was asking about mechanical accuracy then ignore all of my previous comments.

No if you really want to see anti-accuracy watch me shoot single handed with my left hand.....ugh that is bad. I can only hope if I am ever attacked and lose the use of my right hand the guy attacking me weighs around 700 pounds, walks with a double limp and has the habit of falling asleep standing up and is with 4 feet of me if I am going left handed only :)

That's cool, Ruggles.

What you're saying is certainly related to the real world in which we all live. :)

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 20:58
STI Trojan 5.0
No others for the money

Thanks !!!!!

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 20:59
I'm guessing that BAC is the only one that can speak to having used all of those, the rest of us would simply be pushing our own favorites.
Very true ....

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:00
TRP is very accurate, but lately the price has been closer to $1500 or slightly above that. A little over priced at that level.
Thanks for your views !!!

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:00
Les Baer is the ultimate in 1911 accuracy.

Thanks for your info...

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:01
they might be good but i would never buy one for the simple fact . they are ugly!!!:sorry: the big TROJAN on the slide no thanks
:supergrin:

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:02
In that range, you can't get a Baer with a 1.5" accuracy package, but it should still be near the top of the list.

Having had Baers with the 1 1/2" ... I agree....

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:02
I agree, that billboard is like nascar:rofl:
:supergrin:

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:04
I'm not fond of the billboard, but its an amazing $1000 1911.


http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5629/0001690ud9.jpg

I keep hearing about what great pistols they are for the $$$$.. I like the HC
Finish !!!!

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:07
I have yet to find a quality 1911 that I can outshoot consistently.

I agree ...

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:08
The Baer with 1 1/2 package is going to out shoot the others mentioned in a randsome rest. Now, in my hands , I can't tell a diff. The only thing I don't like about my Baers is the trigger. It breaks very clean but is too heavy for bullseye shooting.
Thanks for your views >>>>>>

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:09
If you keep your eyeballs peeled you will find a almost LNIB 1.5 Premier II Baer for $1,500, or even under. It will be gun for gun on average the most accurate out of the box gun.

I agree and have been looking for around 6 weeks for one....

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:12
Here is an accuracy test done for fun over at the Dan Wesson site.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=255555

Saw it when it first came out ... Thanks !!!!

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:12
Very true. It takes a ransom rest to really see what a gun is capable of.

100% agree !!!

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:16
Exactly, which is why it drives me crazy when people constantly say a gun is more accurate than them..

That always gets me too.....

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:19
I love reading what groups pistols do in a Ranson Rest !!!!:supergrin:

Here is a breakdown of the accuracy test done over at the DW Forum. These were tested in a Ransome rest.

With that, in no specific order, here are the best groups shot by each gun tested, in inches, with each of the 3 ammo types. Ammo will be listed in the following order: Win White Box (WWB); Rem Ball (REM), and LSWC hand loads (LSWC).
WWB REM LSWC
Dan Wesson Valor 1.56 1.08 1.43
Les Baer TRS 1.17 0.96 1.39
Ed Brown Kobra 3.11 1.35 1.41
Kimber Classic Custom 3.15 1.13 1.55
Sig GSR 2.43 1.29 1.55
Colt Combat Elite 6.50 4.75 3.82
Severns Modified Valor 1.21 0.95 0.79
Fusion 9mm CBOB Group 1: 1.43 Group 2: 1.25 Group 3: 1.64

Note that, in all but two of the cases, the guns shot better using the Remington factory ball ammo than my hand loads. This is atypical, in my experience, and quite opposite from what we found out last month when testing the Commander-length pistols. Of no technical significance, but also interesting in a humorous way, is that the most and the least accurate of the guns preferred the LSWC ammo. Again, with this limited amount of testing, these observations mean little.

Looking at the average of (only) these three groups, we see the following relative rankings, in terms of group sizes, from smallest to largest:

1. Severns Modified Valor 0.98
2. Les Baer TRS 1.17
3. Dan Wesson Valor 1.36
4. Fusion CBOB 1.44
4. Sig GSR 1.76
5. Kimber Classic Custom 1.94
6. Ed Brown Kobra 1.96
7. Colt Combat Elite 5.03

bac1023
02-17-2010, 21:21
I keep hearing about what great pistols they are for the $$$$.. I like the HC
Finish !!!!

Thanks.

I got a killer deal on that used, in like new shape a couple years back.

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:26
It was a pretty good test, but, I would have liked to have seen him test a Baer with the 1 1/2" @ 50 yard group guarentee, instead of the standard, 3" gun, and I would have liked to have seen an STI Trojan in the mix. The .40 Trojan I have is almost as accurate as my Baer, with the 1 1/2" @ 50 yard group guarentee.

At 25 yards .
A standard Les Baer Ultimater Master in a Ranson Rest for 5 different loads
averaged 1.82" for 10 rounds

Rock River Arms 5 different loads
Limited Match 1 1/2"
10 rounds 1.83"

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:28
Nice Nice Nice !!!!!

Yes sir. :)


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/005-1.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/026.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/028.jpg

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:31
Are you going to handload for the gun? I like my Baer, but my Kimber was very accurate and reliable as well.

Yes ... I use
Nosler 185 grain 4.2 Clays
Winchester Primers
Starline brass

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:35
I guess I have always read into the question "which gun is the most accurate" as meaning "which gun will I shoot more accurately" or "which gun will I not outgrow" accuracy wise as I learn to shoot more proficiently with it. Either way it is a pointless question to me as the whole mechanical accuracy vs practical accuracy facts come into play.

I have never used a mechanical rest when shooting as I find no use to do so, although I do understand why folks do use them. My simple train of thought is shoot like you are going to really shoot so I always shoot standing or sitting "freehand". I guess since that is my mindset I read into that accuracy question with that in mind. Thus my golf club point, folks asking which clubs will make me a better golfer, as if speeding money was the way to buy yourself a better golf average. Not how it works, and the same with shooting, "better" mechanical accuracy will do nothing for you shooting freehand. Now buying training in either golf or shooting can improve you performance so spend the money there I would say instead of on gear, or spend it on more range balls or ammo. :)

In retrospect if the OP was asking about mechanical accuracy then ignore all of my previous comments.

No if you really want to see anti-accuracy watch me shoot single handed with my left hand.....ugh that is bad. I can only hope if I am ever attacked and lose the use of my right hand the guy attacking me weighs around 700 pounds, walks with a double limp and has the habit of falling asleep standing up and is with 4 feet of me if I am going left handed only :)

mechanical accuracy.... . Than when I do bad I know I stink for that day and can't blame the gun...
:supergrin::supergrin:

MastiffMan
02-17-2010, 21:37
Thanks again to all that posted !!!!