PP 180gr plinking? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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LightningCrash
02-18-2010, 12:45
I'm going to load up some plinking ammo for my 10mm and don't want to go nuclear this time. I'd like for my wife to be able to shoot it too.

Finally got my powder order and I have Power Pistol and Winchester 231.

I was thinking about throwing 6.5gr of PP and working up from there. Does anyone have any experience this low in PP?

rickrope
02-18-2010, 20:48
http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/POWER-PISTOL-LOADS-t44346.html

Not light loads though.

I'm going to load up some plinking ammo for my 10mm and don't want to go nuclear this time. I'd like for my wife to be able to shoot it too.

Finally got my powder order and I have Power Pistol and Winchester 231.

I was thinking about throwing 6.5gr of PP and working up from there. Does anyone have any experience this low in PP?

MakeMineA10mm
02-18-2010, 22:58
You're not providing very much information to work with. Not even a bullet weight? How can we judge where you're suggestion is at without knowing that key piece of information?

My light load for the 10mm is: WLP, assorted brass, 5.6grs W231, 175gr LTC bullet, 1.260" OAL. This is still an 1100fps load or so, out of a 5" barrel, so I'm not sure you'd define it as light... There are LOTS of FBI-load equivalents in the load books. I'm sure, if you're using something around 180grs for bullet weight, there are LOTS of good suggested loads in the manuals with Power Pistol as the propellant.

LightningCrash
02-19-2010, 21:18
Bullet weight is 180gr per the title and tags.

I know about FBI Lite, but it figured I'd ask if it was wife-friendly before I load out a hundred rounds of it.

Rickrope I'll keep that link bookmarked for when I get ready for hunting season ;)

MakeMineA10mm
02-20-2010, 09:09
OOPs, sorry Lightning! I guess my surfing technique got the better of me. When I surf, I usually stay on the main page for each forum and right-click and open all the threads I'm interested in reading before going back and selecting each tab and reading each individual thread. When I do this, I usually don't read the thread title again, and just go into the body of the first post... If I opened each thread individually and read it right there, I'd have remembered the 180gr was listed in the title. I'm sure others do this the same way (cause you can go back and look at the main forum and open more threads while waiting for each thread to download - so it saves time), so you may want to keep that in mind to post all details in the body. And I'll try to remember to re-read the thread titles as I go back through... :wavey:

To answer your question as to a plinking load, W231 will give you all the power you need for "plinking." I suggest you start at the starting load in the manual and work up to no more than the half-way point between the start and max loads, as long as you're getting reliable functioning of the pistol. (Don't know if you've got heavier springs or not in your gun, so that's why I figured a start load may not cycle the action.)

LightningCrash
02-20-2010, 18:54
I'll try to put more details in the body in the future.

To answer your question as to a plinking load, W231 will give you all the power you need for "plinking." I suggest you start at the starting load in the manual and work up to no more than the half-way point between the start and max loads, as long as you're getting reliable functioning of the pistol. (Don't know if you've got heavier springs or not in your gun, so that's why I figured a start load may not cycle the action.)

I have 4 books, but I need to refresh my library. Only one has reasonable tables for 10mm.
I had a golden stroke of luck one day and looked at a "Handloader Magazine" one day in the gun store, it had a great selection of load data for 10mm from a Kimber.
I bought it and scanned the pages. I counted myself lucky because I quit picking up gun publications a very long time ago. :supergrin:
Half tempted to use the 40S&W pages minimum grains for PP and 231.
From what you have: Is the min charge on 231 180gr 10mm around 6gr? Heck, looks like PP ends up being a min 6gr too.

Gun is a bone-stock Witness EM 10mm with the wussbag euro recoil springs, it should eat the light stuff just fine.

The main thing for me is making sure that my wife is familiar with the controls if she has to operate it for whatever reason. Can't have her cowed by Norma 10mm factory, gotta work her up to it ;)

MakeMineA10mm
02-20-2010, 21:16
Definitely not. 6.0grs is over max. I use 5.6grs with a 175gr lead TC bullet, and that is a near-max load. (5grs lighter isn't a big difference, however, the difference between the resistance of a lead bullet vs. a jacketed one is a huge difference, so I'd imagine jacketed would be a bit lower.)

Ah, went to the hodgdon.com site and looked it up. Turns out with 231 the loads between lead and jacketed aren't that different. Here's the data for a 180gr Sierra JHC and W231 in the 10mm:

180gr. SIE JHC W231 1.260" (OAL)
(start) 5.2grs 944fps 29,700 PSI (max) 5.8grs 1061fps 34,900 PSI

FYI, if you need updated load info, you can get most of it on-line these days. Hodgdon distributes Winchester, IMR, and Hodgdon brands and all of those are on their website. Alliant has their own website with load data and Accurate Arms and Ramshot are distributed by Western Powders and data can be found at Ramshot.com.

LightningCrash
02-20-2010, 22:18
Wow. I guess I'm going to grab some more books, then.

The pages I scanned had 6.0gr of W231 pushing an 180gr lead at 1039fps, and had 6gr of HP-38 pushing a 180gr JHP at 1047.

Guess that's why they call them gun rags.

But 5.2gr sounds like a good start for W231.
It appears Alliant decided it would be a bad idea to put any sizeable quantity of 10mm PP reloading information on their website.

Thanks for the help!

MakeMineA10mm
02-21-2010, 14:25
Well, also keep in mind that lot-to-lot variations in the powder, and tightness/looseness differences in the chambers of different guns, and internal capacity of different makes or lots of brass, and primer strength and lot-to-lot variations can all cause different performance with the same "data."

My lead bullet load with 5.6grs goes about 1075 from various "full-size" (4.6" to 5" barrels) pistols, while the book says it goes 1125fps. BUT, I have one lot of 231 that only gave 960fps and another lot that gave 1175fps...

I have that Handloader you're referring to, and I think it was either Brian Pierce or Al Miller who wrote that article. What he did was also a long-established safe practice - load to a certain velocity. To avoid the hassle of lot-to-lot variations and get the same performance, you can work up a safe load, and then if you change to a new lot of powder, you raise or lower the load until you get the same velocity as the last lot of powder. I'm guessing, he used his chronograph and watched other pressure signs (especially measuring the expansion ring on the brass), and worked up to a load with a worthwhile velocity. (After all, it was a 10mm reloading article, and if he was only getting 40S&W velocities, no one would be interested. So, he new he was in safe territory to go over the book maximum by using those other methods.)

I've found my 5.6gr load to work sufficiently well and within safety standards for a range/plinking/practice load regardless of what burning speed the particular lot of 231 is. (Sometimes it drops down into the FBI-load category, though, which I don't particularly like, but it still works...)