My first Nighthawk and question on finish issue [Archive] - Glock Talk

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quantim0
02-19-2010, 20:44
Got this in a few days ago. A Talon from Nighthawk. The pistol overall is way smoother and better finished then the other 1911s I've had (Colt XSE commander, TRP, and Baer Concept VII). The slide is as smooth as glass and the trigger breaks clean and smooth with a touch of pretravel and zero creep. The gun is perfect in terms of machine marks and dehorning. It's tough to explain what makes this gun better then my others, but it's just a much higher quality gun overall.

My problem is the Permacoat on the rear of the slide. The rear is checkered to reduce glare and it does that very well for the most part. The problem is an area on the left of the checkering. It looks like the permacoat was applied too heavily and it filled in a lot of the depth the checkering has. That has caused that area of the slide to have significantly more glare in daylight then the rest of the slide, defeating the purpose of the checkering. I want to know if this is worth calling Nighthawk about and *****ing. I hope that they would be receptive and refinish the slide for me. I just want to make sure I'm not being unreasonable. The last two photos are an attempt to show the issue with the coating

Pictures
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c108/quantim0/DSC_0270.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c108/quantim0/DSC_0267.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c108/quantim0/DSC_0272.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c108/quantim0/DSC_0271.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c108/quantim0/DSC_0273.jpg

larry1096
02-19-2010, 21:14
Nope. If it really glares, scuff it lightly with a scotchbrite. But based on that target, I wouldn't so much as take that thing apart to clean it...


Larry

bac1023
02-19-2010, 21:26
First off, congrats on the Nighthawk. It looks great.

Unless it was a huge problem in sunlight, I doubt I'd send it back. Still, I'm not the one that just paid over two grand for that pistol. I'd have to see it for myself.

I hate to say it, but I'm not a fan of Permakote. In my opinion, its one of the worst baked on finishes on the market, which is why both my Nighthawks are hard chromed.



http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/000_2307.jpg

willowofwisp
02-19-2010, 23:22
Hmm question Bac but will you always opt for hard chrome over other finishes? like something as durable as ION bond?

quantim0
02-20-2010, 01:21
First off, congrats on the Nighthawk. It looks great.

Unless it was a huge problem in sunlight, I doubt I'd send it back. Still, I'm not the one that just paid over two grand for that pistol. I'd have to see it for myself.

I hate to say it, but I'm not a fan of Permakote. In my opinion, its one of the worst baked on finishes on the market, which is why both my Nighthawks are hard chromed.



http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/000_2307.jpg

I got the Permakote because I love the way a worn 1911 looks. There's just something about it to me. If I got hardchrome or diamond black I wouldn't get that joy. Plus I can always refinish it later. No big deal. When I get my carry gun, probably a Talon II bobtail, I'll have it done in a more impervious finish since it gets hot and sweaty down here. I don't want to worry about rust or other associated issues with the finish. Your hardchrome gun, Dominator(?), with the spalted maple grips is one of the best looking guns I have ever seen. Next to your RRA.

Regarding the rear of the slide, I think if the rest of the slide wasn't so impervious to glare, the small spot wouldn't be so noticeable. When you have a nice matte slide and one section glaring at you, it is noticeable to me. Plus it's on the back of the slide, I'll be seeing it a lot and I think it will drive me crazy.

beretta-neo
02-20-2010, 01:53
I hear Larry at Nighthawk is very friendly. he is on 1 of the 1911 forums, and answers questions in the nighthawk section a lot.

For that kind of money, you should be satisfied. I'd call larry and speak to him about it if it bothers you

bac1023
02-20-2010, 05:50
Hmm question Bac but will you always opt for hard chrome over other finishes? like something as durable as ION bond?

No.

I just don't like Permakote.

I have an ion bond 1911 and many other finishes.

bac1023
02-20-2010, 06:00
I got the Permakote because I love the way a worn 1911 looks. There's just something about it to me. If I got hardchrome or diamond black I wouldn't get that joy. Plus I can always refinish it later. No big deal. When I get my carry gun, probably a Talon II bobtail, I'll have it done in a more impervious finish since it gets hot and sweaty down here. I don't want to worry about rust or other associated issues with the finish. Your hardchrome gun, Dominator(?), with the spalted maple grips is one of the best looking guns I have ever seen. Next to your RRA.

Regarding the rear of the slide, I think if the rest of the slide wasn't so impervious to glare, the small spot wouldn't be so noticeable. When you have a nice matte slide and one section glaring at you, it is noticeable to me. Plus it's on the back of the slide, I'll be seeing it a lot and I think it will drive me crazy.


Sorry, my two are an Enforcer and Predator II.


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/000_2309.jpg

Rinspeed
02-20-2010, 07:54
Permakote has a horrible reputation, I have no idea why they still use it.

Bill Lumberg
02-20-2010, 08:20
My partner has a Nighthawk. Zero issues with the permakote. His gun isn't any more reliable or accurate than my loaded. It just looks better, sounds better, smells better, and feels better. Beautiful guns.

Rinspeed
02-20-2010, 08:26
His gun isn't any more reliable or accurate than my loaded. It just looks better, sounds better, smells better, and feels better.



I hear that a lot that a $800 gun shoots just as well as a $2000 one. Just tells me that neither one of you know how to shoot. :tongueout:

bac1023
02-20-2010, 19:24
I hear that a lot that a $800 gun shoots just as well as a $2000 one. Just tells me that neither one of you know how to shoot. :tongueout:

:rofl:

Yeah, the Springfield Loaded and any of the Nighthawks are on opposite ends of the spectrum.

bac1023
02-20-2010, 19:25
Permakote has a horrible reputation, I have no idea why they still use it.


Good question. :dunno:

quantim0
02-20-2010, 20:13
Good question. :dunno:

If I had a guess it would be it's they have a decent amount of capital invested in the process. It's at the point where it may not be in their interest to switch to a more expensive coating.

I think with the reputation that Permakote has with some, it may be worth the money to improve it and come out with a new version. Maybe they're working on it now, who knows?

willowofwisp
02-20-2010, 21:12
apparently they are changing the permakote process

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=260815

bac1023
02-20-2010, 21:16
apparently they are changing the permakote process

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=260815

Good to hear. :)

GVFlyer
02-20-2010, 21:30
I hear that a lot that a $800 gun shoots just as well as a $2000 one. Just tells me that neither one of you know how to shoot. :tongueout:


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Do these people actually believe what they're telling us or do they just want us to believe it?

bac1023
02-20-2010, 23:14
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Do these people actually believe what they're telling us or do they just want us to believe it?

I think they feel better by saying it whether they believe it or not.

Officer's Match
02-21-2010, 07:40
Wouldn't hurt to call NH. I hear raves about their CS. I might be tempted to very gently brush along the grooves with a soft brush, maybe brass bristle, to try to even up the finish.

hikerpaddler
02-21-2010, 08:01
My experience exactly. Let the internet rap battlers laugh. I'll take the real world any day.


My partner has a Nighthawk. Zero issues with the permakote. His gun isn't any more reliable or accurate than my loaded. It just looks better, sounds better, smells better, and feels better. Beautiful guns.

Bill Lumberg
02-21-2010, 08:34
Well put hiker. All 1911's aren't created equal. The two I referenced have been equal in function. We've qualified, swapped, qualified again, and generally shot the hell out of our guns. Is the hawk nicer? 100 times nicer. Do we shoot equally well (and that's very well, I might add) with either, so far, yes. He has been tough on his finish and has zero permakote problems yet. The gun is about a year old and is carried daily, on and off duty. I, on the other hand, found that using nothing but militec in all day, against the skin, sweaty environs, resulted in a haze of surface rust on the outside of my barrel, probably sweat condensing when coming in to air conditioning from a day outside. Switching to a conventional gun oil solved the problem. No such problem with the Nighthawk. From ordering other items, I can tell you that Nighthawk's CS is excellent.

bac1023
02-21-2010, 09:38
Fair enough.

I can't see the Nighthawk being more reliable, because Springfield's entire line of full size enhanced 1911s are incredibly reliable.

As far as accuracy is concerned, put the Loaded and Nighthawk on a ransom rest and see for yourself. Of course, that doesn't always translate to real world shooting, but if we're comparing guns, a rest is needed.

bac1023
02-21-2010, 09:39
My experience exactly. Let the internet rap battlers laugh. I'll take the real world any day.

So...

You've also experienced a low end production 1911 to be just as accurate as a $2500 Nighthawk? :dunno:

Tactical black
02-21-2010, 14:48
Congrats on the nighthawk:wavey:

If it's not good enough, you could always just throw it my way:supergrin:

Bill Lumberg
02-22-2010, 08:48
Don't know about him, but I have. We're talking about one of each, so it's hardly indicative either model's average performance market wide. You were just hoping to get someone to argue with you over the definition of low end, sounds like.

So...

You've also experienced a low end production 1911 to be just as accurate as a $2500 Nighthawk? :dunno:

Mamaluke
03-10-2010, 00:10
Don't know about him, but I have. We're talking about one of each, so it's hardly indicative either model's average performance market wide. You were just hoping to get someone to argue with you over the definition of low end, sounds like.

Some people just want to show off their expensive handguns. They never post a video displaying their shooting skills...maybe they need super duper guns to be able to do 1/2 of what some can do with "low end" handguns.

ronin.45
03-10-2010, 01:16
Bac is absolutely correct. The average shooter may never be able to see a difference in accuracy between a low rent production gun and a high dollar custom one. Heck even a good shooter offhand may be able to put all the rounds through the same hole at 25'. However if you move out to 25 yards and mount the guns into a ransom rest the difference will become clear. The inherent accuracy of a semi-custom like Nighthawk is almost invariably better than any production gun due to better tolerances and hand fitting.

I vaguely recall an article about a semi-custom(Baer I think) that a writer did some ransom testing with. If I remember correctly it was so accurate he ended up shooting groups out to 150-200 yards. At closer distances the groups were just ragged holes so he kept moving out until he started getting like 3" groups at the final distance. If memory serves I think that gun preferred Wolf ammo too. The precision built into these guns is quite amazing sometimes.