Thinking about going 308 with an AR [Archive] - Glock Talk

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JTLIII
02-22-2010, 21:24
I've already got 3 normal 223 ARs, so now I'm thinking of getting a 308 AR. probably dpms with a 20" Barrel and do a clone of the M110.

Anyone have experiences with 308 ARs?


EDITED FOR STUPIDITY

Thrillhouse700
02-23-2010, 08:44
With a barrel that long the bullet may never make it out, even with .308!!!:rofl:

I have been wanting a M1a but since I will prob never afford one the DPMS might be my other choice.

djegators
02-23-2010, 08:49
I've been looking into this myself. My conclusions so far though, lead me to $3000+ rifles (Larue, Noveske, Knights, and so on). I have decided for now to focus on upgrading my HK91 clone instead, while I am also upgrading my ARs. My goal is for long term high end quality and reliability in my rifles. I once was into quantity, now I am more concerned with quality. Just my two cents.

djegators
02-23-2010, 08:51
I started a thread on this same topic not too long ago, good info: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1181726


Oh, my only consideration for a less than $3000 .308 AR, is the Armalite .308.

MichiganJFrog
02-23-2010, 08:59
I'm waiting on my Armalite AR-10. Bud's gun shop has them for $1246 delivered. Plus, from what I've read, Armalite's CS is golden and they have a LIFETIME warranty.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/135

faawrenchbndr
02-23-2010, 10:51
My only advice would be to avaid DPMS in the 308 platform.
I've seen and made them run reliably in 223/5.56mm but,
the LR308 I had was a POS they was posessed by the debil!

pmj
02-23-2010, 11:04
Take a look at the .308 AR platform from LMT (Lewis Machine and Tool). I've heard good reports on it. They're a bit pricey but make good stuff.

Regards -

JTLIII
02-23-2010, 11:11
Interesting... Thanks for the info. Guess I'll just be happy with my M1A

82ndVet
02-23-2010, 11:13
My only advice would be to avaid DPMS in the 308 platform, the LR308 I had was a POS they was posessed by the debil!
Why? What was the rifle doing, or not doing that you didn't like? I was just on their website playing around with the 'build your own' thing they have on there...particularly the LR308.:supergrin:

phxfa
02-23-2010, 11:22
Take a look at the .308 AR platform from LMT (Lewis Machine and Tool). I've heard good reports on it. They're a bit pricey but make good stuff.

Regards -
Guns arent even being shipped yet, I ordered mine at SHOT and expect delivery in March :rofl:

pmj
02-23-2010, 11:33
phxfa -

Good sit-rep on shipping and thx. A good friend that works for a distributor had been shooting one at a demo recently. He told me they had good results with 168 and 175 gr ammo out to 500 yds. No specifics, just that they got good groups and no problems with the rifle.

I have an AR from LMT and it's been solid from day one with no issues either.

pmj
02-23-2010, 11:36
Not shipping yet doesn't mean they're not out there. :whistling:

faawrenchbndr
02-23-2010, 11:37
Why? What was the rifle doing, or not doing that you didn't like? I was just on their website playing around with the 'build your own' thing they have on there...particularly the LR308.:supergrin:

I never could get it to run with the DPMS 19 round mags. I had some 5 round
DPMS mags that would run. Tried about 15 mags, all from DPMS. Jam city.
DPMS replaced the BCG, the recoil spring and buffer. And eventually the
complete upper.
I tried every brand ammo I could get me hands on. I was so tired of pissing with that POS I sold it.

Jer
02-23-2010, 11:52
I never could get it to run with the DPMS 19 round mags. I had some 5 round
DPMS mags that would run. Tried about 15 mags, all from DPMS. Jam city.
DPMS replaced the BCG, the recoil spring and buffer. And eventually the
complete upper.
I tried every brand ammo I could get me hands on. I was so tired of pissing with that POS I sold it.

Shoulda have been patient and waited for the Magpul .308 Pmags. I had the same issues and the new Pmags cured it all. Runs like a champion now.

faawrenchbndr
02-23-2010, 12:11
Shoulda have been patient and waited for the Magpul .308 Pmags. I had the same issues and the new Pmags cured it all. Runs like a champion now.

That was like almost two years ago!
Maybe DPMS should have made a reliable weapon?!

I do wish it would have worked out, it shot like a dream with the 5 rounders.
I had a Mickelik brake on it with a Millet DMS-1.
Was great when it did not jam.

Jer
02-23-2010, 12:15
That was like almost two years ago!
Maybe DPMS should have made a reliable weapon?!

I do wish it would have worked out, it shot like a dream with the 5 rounders.
I had a Mickelik brake on it with a Millet DMS-1.
Was great when it did not jam.

You're confusing their ability to build a weapon with their ability to build a box style magazine. LOTs of manufacturer's can't build a mag to save their lives or Magpul wouldn't make millions off of a plastic magazine. That doesn't mean their weapon systems are ****. You said it yourself it ran fine with a 5rd mag so why bash on the platform? It didn't work for you, that's great but it was a simple part that was your problem and you're making it sound like the entire weapon was junk which is FAR from the truth.

shakazulu12
02-23-2010, 14:01
Yeah, the DPMS mags really hurt their image. Really, both the major manufactures kinda blew it with mags. The gen I Armalite ones are problematic as well, though they cured it with the Gen II mags.

Lowrangerider
02-23-2010, 14:17
That was like almost two years ago!
Maybe DPMS should have made a reliable weapon?!

I do wish it would have worked out, it shot like a dream with the 5 rounders.
I had a Mickelik brake on it with a Millet DMS-1.
Was great when it did not jam.

They do, sorry YOU had a bad one. YOU should have sent it back to them so they could fix it... There are so many of the DPMS LR-308 series rifles our there working perfectly and shooting tight groups that I think you are the small minority.

Lowrangerider
02-23-2010, 14:19
I have shot out of all of my 20+ DPMS .308 mags and they all worked fine out my my DPMS gun. I don't think it was a mag problem if it wouldn't run with any he tried.

faawrenchbndr
02-23-2010, 14:58
You're confusing their ability to build a weapon with their ability to build a box style magazine. LOTs of manufacturer's can't build a mag to save their lives or Magpul wouldn't make millions off of a plastic magazine. That doesn't mean their weapon systems are ****. You said it yourself it ran fine with a 5rd mag so why bash on the platform? It didn't work for you, that's great but it was a simple part that was your problem and you're making it sound like the entire weapon was junk which is FAR from the truth.

Well guess what,.......it shipped from DPMS with a 19 round mag!
The five rounders were purchased by me. It would never run on the mags
provided from the manufacturer. It's a POS weapon system, DPMS couldn't fix it.
There was NO OPTION for another magazine two years ago. Would you keep a car
for two years that you could not shift out of second gear for TWO YEARS?!

I for one will never BUY or RECOMMEND a DPMS in my lifetime.
If that gets your panties all bunched up, and hurts your feelings, too bad! :dunno:

faawrenchbndr
02-23-2010, 15:00
They do, sorry YOU had a bad one. YOU should have sent it back to them so they could fix it... There are so many of the DPMS LR-308 series rifles our there working perfectly and shooting tight groups that I think you are the small minority.

I was sent magazines, followers, springs,.........
In all I was sent 11 WHOLE magazines and seven spring/follower sets.
DPMS will always be an EPIC FAIL with me.

Since there is no point in arguing,...........:wavey:

thisaway
02-23-2010, 15:53
I have a DPMS LR-243 that has been converted to .308 (20-inch-bbl.). It doesn't do well with cheap ammo (Norinco or Pakistani surplus) but it does very well with S&B or Winchester "white box". I guess it just needs high-quality ammo.

I have three P308 mags that work well, and two C-Products 20-round stainless-steel mags that also work well. I also have three of the DPMS 19-round mags, but the fact that they only hold 19 rounds bothers me, so I don't usually use them.

jrs93accord
02-23-2010, 16:31
I have thoroughly enjoyed my early model (1993) KAC SR-25 Mk11 Mod 0 (24" bbl). It is an absolute tack-driver. Of course, I paid a pretty penny for it.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/DSC00608.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/DSC00609.jpg

Jumper
02-23-2010, 16:55
I had a DPMS LR308 TAC 20. I never had a problem with feeding using the factory 19rnd mags. I did however have a big problem with accuracy. I tried several combinations of handloads that shot well for others, bullet weights from 110 up to 168, and even had the barrel re-crowned. Rarely would it shoot less than 1.5" and 2.5" was typical. Got tired of screwing with it and sold it. Not to FAAWRENCHBNDR :)

mikeyU
02-23-2010, 17:41
I have thoroughly enjoyed my early model (1993) KAC SR-25 Mk11 Mod 0 (24" bbl). It is an absolute tack-driver. Of course, I paid a pretty penny for it.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/DSC00608.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/DSC00609.jpg

In an Ar platform I would go with one of these, or maybe hold off for sigs .308 Ar to come out, LWRC makes a nice one. Personally Im not buying dpms 308. I have an M1A and am more than happy with that at the moment.

faawrenchbndr
02-23-2010, 17:52
I had a DPMS LR308 TAC 20. I never had a problem with feeding using the factory 19rnd mags. I did however have a big problem with accuracy. I tried several combinations of handloads that shot well for others, bullet weights from 110 up to 168, and even had the barrel re-crowned. Rarely would it shoot less than 1.5" and 2.5" was typical. Got tired of screwing with it and sold it. Not to FAAWRENCHBNDR :)

Funny thing is,.......mine was a tack driver with good ammo, sub 1" five shot groups.

furioso2112
02-23-2010, 17:56
I have a DPMS 308 - the AP4 (AR-15 style - collapsible stock, 16" bbl, bayo-lug/FSB/flash hider). I only have maybe 200 rounds through it, but it has run well thus far. I used the supplied 19-rounders and PMags, Prvi 168-gr., Fed 150-gr., and Win 147 gr. I also put some Federal soft points through it, and seems like I have some Prive heavier stuff - 175-gr.?

I do like the idea of a 'high-end' 308 AR, but at nearly 3x the price, I wanted the gun when I bought it and wouldn't pay that much. I am considering a LWRC upper assembly, and might eventually build a lower for that. I really just wanted to get a longer-range/higher caliber gun in an AR platform, so since it has run reliably, it has suited my purposes thus far. Also, I built up my round count, so when I eventually get a higher-end gun, I won't have to also shell out another grand for some ammo...that is, of course, unless I shoot all that I have with the current gun before I get another one. not likely. By the time I get down to 1500 rounds or so, I'll have to do some serious thining about a nicer 308. That will probably be a while, as I am shooting 5.56 in 3-gun.

DarkBlade1000RR
02-23-2010, 18:34
I just picked up a DPMS SASS .308...haven't had a chance yet to get to the range yet but I did pick up a few Cproduct and Magpul mags at the recommendation of another SASS owner...but he said i shouldn't have any problems w/ the 2 -19 round DPMS mags it came with......

phxfa
02-23-2010, 21:58
phxfa -

Good sit-rep on shipping and thx. A good friend that works for a distributor had been shooting one at a demo recently. He told me they had good results with 168 and 175 gr ammo out to 500 yds. No specifics, just that they got good groups and no problems with the rifle.

I have an AR from LMT and it's been solid from day one with no issues either.
Im glad to hear I made a good purchase for a change! I hear ya on LMT's I've got 2, 16 and 12 inch piston guns and am very happy with both

82ndVet
02-23-2010, 22:18
That's a nice looking piece there jrs93!

There's some interesting info going on here. I did a few searches on DPMS, and found some conflicting statements, specifically on accuracy. Things like 'my DPMS is inaccurate. I'm getting 8" groups @ 100yrds, w/18" barrel"....Never stated whether or not supported, benchrest, bi-pod, ect. More than likely it was unsupported being that far off...not to mention the shooter was probably lacking skill being that far off.

As for the above issues, my first thought was that the issue could have been mag related...and if Magpul mags fixed it, then that is nice to hear.

On accuracy...DPMS states the following about their barrels...:

Barrel Information
To achieve the best results for accuracy you should clean the chamber and bore after every round for the first 25 rounds, then every 10 rounds up to 100 rounds. How many people do you know that have actually done this? It usually takes about 200 rounds per barrel for optimum accuracy. Please keep in mind that our barrels are production barrels, not custom barrels. Accuracy is dependent upon many factors such as bullet weight, powder load, rifling twist, rifling lands, "operator technique", etc. Our production barrels have achieved anywhere from 1/8" to 1 1/2" M.O.A.. Obviously, we would hope that every production barrel would shoot 1/2" M.O.A., but with all of the above factors, we cannot guarantee a specific group size. NOTE: Using reloaded ammunition will void warranty. Modifying chamber or barrel voids warranty. This includes re-reaming of chamber, re-turning barrel to a lesser diameter and/or re-threading barrel for compensator or attachments.

Now, I would have to say that after every round is a bit much,(to me at least), but I can see after 3-5 for the first 25-30.

I also read somewhere that they have stopped the 'cryo accurizing' process for whatever reason, idk. What I do know is that this process is used for a number of different things throughout the world, and has many benefits. I'm in my 2nd year of a two year welding program in college right now, and have been studying metalergy. These tempering and thermo-mechanical treatment processes improve strength and ductile properties of certain steels and alloys. In other words, the barrels are more efficient and durable after undertaking this process. It would be nice if they started doing this again.

And not to take away anything from accuracy of the 308 w/18 or 20" barrels (M1A scout for example)...but...we're talking a totally different platform here, and most factory 308 ammo has their #'s taken from 22-24" barrels.

TimP
02-24-2010, 08:44
I agree with you 82ndVet.

The other thing is, I don't trust everyone when they say it wouldn't shoot better than "X" at 100 yards. I'm not calling people lairs, rather, I've been around enough shooters to know that not every shooter is capable of shooting a sub-moa group. I've seen it first-hand multiple times. Guy is at the range with a Remington LTR or whatever, using blackhills/Federal/Hornady match ammo and getting 2.0 moa groups and is pissed cause his gun wont shoot sub-moa.

I ask if I can shoot 3 rounds in it, and I'll stick 3 shots under an inch.

Now, Im not tooting my own horn, just making a point that just because the shooter cant get a sub-moa group from the rifle, doesnt mean that the rifle isnt capable of it.

This is not directed at anyone.

Just talking out loud
Tim

82ndVet
02-24-2010, 13:06
I agree with you 82ndVet.

The other thing is, I don't trust everyone when they say it wouldn't shoot better than "X" at 100 yards. I'm not calling people lairs, rather, I've been around enough shooters to know that not every shooter is capable of shooting a sub-moa group. I've seen it first-hand multiple times. Guy is at the range with a Remington LTR or whatever, using blackhills/Federal/Hornady match ammo and getting 2.0 moa groups and is pissed cause his gun wont shoot sub-moa.

I ask if I can shoot 3 rounds in it, and I'll stick 3 shots under an inch.

Now, Im not tooting my own horn, just making a point that just because the shooter cant get a sub-moa group from the rifle, doesnt mean that the rifle isnt capable of it.


This is not directed at anyone.

Just talking out loud
Tim
Yes I know...this is why I put 'operator technique' in big red quotations above. My second thought would be breathing technique, but whatever the case, it all has to fit together for optimum accuracy to take place. Not only rifle components and load type, but shooting fundamentals as well. If one element is out of sync (either rifle or shooter), an experienced shooter will more than likely pin-point the problem and fix it....instead of resulting to a mindset of "my rifle is a POS".

This is why we practice and experiment.

GlocksterPaulie
02-24-2010, 13:09
I shot POF's 308 AR, I plan on getting one in the very near future. Very nice.

Paulie

TimP
02-24-2010, 13:14
your a smart guy 82ndVet

Jumper
02-24-2010, 13:30
For the record all the testing done with my LR308 was done supported in a rest from a bench at the same range, the same lane in fact, where I regularly shoot sub MOA 100yd groups with my bolt gun. Today, I use the same method and location to shoot sub-moa groups with my Armalite AR10.

82ndVet
02-24-2010, 13:31
Anyways, I'm about this (><) close to purchasing a LR308...but I can't stop looking at the M1As on SA & GB. :smoking:

:dunno:

GlocksterPaulie
02-24-2010, 13:33
Stay away from SA/GB, they are not your friends right now. I can hear that LR calling your name now.

Paulie:supergrin:

82ndVet
02-24-2010, 13:44
Stay away from SA/GB, they are not your friends right now. I can hear that LR calling your name now.

Paulie:supergrin:
Ohhh...you do? :animlol:

:juggle:

GlocksterPaulie
02-24-2010, 13:50
I fixed GB for you, for some reason it was stuck on M1A's.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.aspx?Keywords=LR+308

Paulie:whistling:

faawrenchbndr
02-24-2010, 16:19
Yes I know...this is why I put 'operator technique' in big red quotations above. My second thought would be breathing technique, but whatever the case, it all has to fit together for optimum accuracy to take place. Not only rifle components and load type, but shooting fundamentals as well. If one element is out of sync (either rifle or shooter), an experienced shooter will more than likely pin-point the problem and fix it....instead of resulting to a mindset of "my rifle is a POS".

This is why we practice and experiment.

Very true statement,.....but when the only manufacturer of a mag with a
capacity of 5 rounds is DPMS, and they can not figure it out, what then?
If you change the buffer, buffer spring, BCG, then the entire upper and even
exchange numerous mags? At what point do you give up and call it a POS?!
If the manufacturer can not fix it,.......at what point would YOU give up?

82ndVet
02-24-2010, 16:30
Very true statement,.....but when the only manufacturer of a mag with a
capacity of 5 rounds is DPMS, and they can not figure it out, what then?
If you change the buffer, buffer spring, BCG, then the entire upper and even
exchange numerous mags? At what point do you give up and call it a POS?!
If the manufacturer can not fix it,.......at what point would YOU give up?
I understand where you're coming from. And if you say it was the rifle, after all the work they supposedly done to it, then I'm just as puzzled as you may be.

:headscratch:

faawrenchbndr
02-24-2010, 16:41
I understand where you're coming from. And if you say it was the rifle, after all the work they supposedly done to it, then I'm just as puzzled as you may be.

:headscratch:

DPMS replaced a total of seven mags. Eventually sent me 11 follower/spring sets.
I used Federal, Winchester, Mil Surp and Federal match ammo.
They eventually replaced the complete upper thinking it was a gas block/barrel issue.
It would run all day long with five round mags. I had a friend loading mags,
I shot 100 rounds with out a single issue. Shot three rounds from a 19 round mag and another jam.
Bullets would nose dive instead of entering the chamber.

I sold it, at a loss, with full disclosure, when I was still in Georgia.

JTLIII
02-24-2010, 16:43
Well, I'm now thoroughly talked out of the DPMS. Maybe I'll try later with the armalite

Jer
02-24-2010, 16:52
Well, I'm now thoroughly talked out of the DPMS. Maybe I'll try later with the armalite

This is exactly why I challenged your experience faawrenchbndr becuase you bashed ALL DPMS 308 rifles when your experience was with only a single one and while it was a real experience this is hardly an accurate cross section of what's on the market. At worst you had a lemon and at best (which is most likely based on your statements) you had a 5rd rifle that functioned flawlessly and with the addition of the new Pmags likely would have had a 20rd rifle that also performed w/o fail all day long. I know mine as well as most people I know performs this way.

I wouldn't rely on a single story for your decision making... be it pro or con. Especially considering that his experience was years ago and admittedly easily remedied by a $20 magazine that is now readily available. Take a wide look at every review and see that one bad story does not a turd make.

82ndVet
02-24-2010, 16:53
Bullets would nose dive instead of entering the chamber.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here...?

faawrenchbndr
02-24-2010, 17:06
The bolt would strip a round from the mag and the cartridge would
nose dive. It would jam at the bottom of the barrel extension.
This would only happen with the 19 round DPMS mags

JTLIII
02-24-2010, 18:28
This is NOT the only story about DPMS which makes me doubt them. I've heard several horror stories(mainly 223) about them, and I thought I'd ask about the 308 version.

faawrenchbndr
02-24-2010, 18:38
My only problem/complaint was with the 19 round mags jamming.
I loved the rifle other than that, but nearly seven moths of messing with it,
I had enough.

MagPul is to be the shiznits for the DPMS LR308, but, I will never try another.
Get an Armalite or a KAC if you can afford it.

wingsprint
02-25-2010, 02:57
I suggest that you look at the Armalite and RRA 308's.

JTLIII
02-25-2010, 08:44
I will check out my dad's new armalite in a few weeks and compared it to his other brand one (don't remember off hand) and see which I like better. I think my M1A will be better than both anyway :p