Kimber Super Match II price info [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Kimber Super Match II price info


MastiffMan
02-24-2010, 13:10
I am just looking for a good range pistol to shoot at 25 meters ... How high would you go on a used one in Excellent condition. ??

glock2740
02-24-2010, 13:14
I know a guy who has a great one for sale for $1500.

MastiffMan
02-24-2010, 13:54
I have a line on 2 of them and just wondering how much money to spend (Bid) on one before you are better off getting a Baer used..
A Baer with the 1 1/2" even used in good shape will go for $1500 if you are lucky but more around $ 1700 or more...

PlasticGuy
02-24-2010, 14:20
I picked up an unfired series I Super Match about a year ago for the equivalent of $1200 (it was part of a trade). That was a very good deal, but I wouldn't have bought it if it was much more. While I love the pistol, it's not the equivalent of my 1.5" Les Baer Premier II, and you can find a lightly used Baer for around $1500. There's no way I could suggest passing up a Baer (even without the 1.5" option) for a Kimber Super Match, no matter how much I like it.

MastiffMan
02-24-2010, 16:05
I picked up an unfired series I Super Match about a year ago for the equivalent of $1200 (it was part of a trade). That was a very good deal, but I wouldn't have bought it if it was much more. While I love the pistol, it's not the equivalent of my 1.5" Les Baer Premier II, and you can find a lightly used Baer for around $1500. There's no way I could suggest passing up a Baer (even without the 1.5" option) for a Kimber Super Match, no matter how much I like it.

I had 5 Baers 4 had the 1 1/2" .. I know they are better pistols... so you think $1200 is about the top price to look on spending on a Super Match in excellent condition??

Rinspeed
02-24-2010, 17:18
John at Proload told me he thought the 1.5" option from Baer was a waste of money and most of the regular Baers will shoot 2-3 inches at 50 yards. I always couldn't help but wonder if the 1.5" guns aren't built any different they just sort out the real accurate ones and sell them at a premium. :dunno:

HAIL CAESAR
02-24-2010, 18:55
I picked up an unfired series I Super Match about a year ago for the equivalent of $1200 (it was part of a trade). That was a very good deal, but I wouldn't have bought it if it was much more. While I love the pistol, it's not the equivalent of my 1.5" Les Baer Premier II, and you can find a lightly used Baer for around $1500. There's no way I could suggest passing up a Baer (even without the 1.5" option) for a Kimber Super Match, no matter how much I like it.

You can find very lightly used PII Baers for a bit over a grand if you look hard enough. I've bought my share of 1,100 dollar ones. The Super Mimbers can had for 1,200 to 1,250 LNIB if you keep your eyes peeled.

bac1023
02-24-2010, 19:25
Here's a few on GB.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=158784558

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=157769801

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=158873154



Unlike some others, I love the Super Match II.


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/000_1752.jpg


A Baer is certainly a better quality 1911 in the price range, but I shoot the Kimber more accurately than my Baer Concept V.

PlasticGuy
02-25-2010, 01:59
I had 5 Baers 4 had the 1 1/2" .. I know they are better pistols... so you think $1200 is about the top price to look on spending on a Super Match in excellent condition??
I can't say "that's what it's worth", but that's the most I would spend. Any more than that and you're getting into the territory of the lightly used Baers, and there is no question of which is the better pistol. I do like my Super Match a lot though, and I don't think it gets nearly the credit it deserves. If you can get them down to $1200 or less, I can highly recommend it.

bac1023
02-25-2010, 04:24
It may be hard to find an excellent condition model below $1200, but some wear shouldn't be a big deal.

MastiffMan
02-25-2010, 10:20
THANKS to all for the great info....
I know more about semi custom & full custom 1911's...
I jumped right into semi custom pistols a few years ago.
I do not have much trigger time with production pistols and not sure which production pistols are the best for tight groups at 25 meters.. The Valor I got a few Months ago is great at 25 meters that I know for sure....

bac1023
02-25-2010, 17:32
THANKS to all for the great info....
I know more about semi custom & full custom 1911's...
I jumped right into semi custom pistols a few years ago.
I do not have much trigger time with production pistols and not sure which production pistols are the best for tight groups at 25 meters.. The Valor I got a few Months ago is great at 25 meters that I know for sure....

Well, the Super Match does have an accuracy guarentee of 1" groups at 25 yards.

Its the only Kimber to have it. I find mine extremely accurate and far and away the most accurate production 1911 I own.

MD357
02-25-2010, 19:06
John at Proload told me he thought the 1.5" option from Baer was a waste of money and most of the regular Baers will shoot 2-3 inches at 50 yards. I always couldn't help but wonder if the 1.5" guns aren't built any different they just sort out the real accurate ones and sell them at a premium. :dunno:

1.5 Guarantees are BS IMHO. Can anyone here print 1.5 groups at 50yds?

bac1023
02-25-2010, 19:12
1.5 Guarantees are BS IMHO. Can anyone here print 1.5 groups at 50yds?

God no. :)

I just find it impressive that a 5" pistol can even do it from a ransom rest.

HAIL CAESAR
02-25-2010, 19:14
Can anyone here print 1.5 groups at 50yds?

Sure! With WWB or Wolf with my eyes closed.:whistling:

It is a waste for the most part, unless you are a Olympic class shooter.

Rinspeed
02-25-2010, 19:15
I have a hard time seeing the bullseye at 50 yards. :dunno:

bac1023
02-25-2010, 19:27
I have a hard time seeing the bullseye at 50 yards. :dunno:

:agree:

faawrenchbndr
02-25-2010, 20:32
I have a hard time seeing the bullseye at 50 yards.

That sounds about right! :rofl:

MastiffMan
02-26-2010, 03:19
I use to shoot my P2 at 100 yards before I moved .....99% of my range time I shoot at 25 meters indoors.

JBJ16
02-26-2010, 03:28
1.5 Guarantees are BS IMHO. Can anyone here print 1.5 groups at 50yds?

Yes. Using a sharpie.

bac1023
02-26-2010, 03:35
Yes. Using a sharpie.

:rofl:

PlasticGuy
02-27-2010, 16:17
1.5 Guarantees are BS IMHO. Can anyone here print 1.5 groups at 50yds?
Not me, for sure. But that's not the point.

The size of a group is the mechanical error of the gun plus the error of the shooter. If the gun shoots 1" smaller groups at a given distance, my groups will be 1" tighter at that distance overall. It may or may not be enough of a difference to make a practical difference, but it will be smaller.

auto45
02-28-2010, 06:44
At $1500-$1700 at your local gunshop, I think they would sell a lot of these.

Baer is around $1800 retail and the other "semi-customs" run in the $2400 range I believe, comparing similiar features. Meaning adjustable sights, checkering.

Of course, if it didn't have "their" firing pin safety, they would sell even more...IMO anyway.

MD357
02-28-2010, 11:28
Not me, for sure. But that's not the point.

The size of a group is the mechanical error of the gun plus the error of the shooter. If the gun shoots 1" smaller groups at a given distance, my groups will be 1" tighter at that distance overall. It may or may not be enough of a difference to make a practical difference, but it will be smaller.

Yeah that's all good in theory but it's feel good mentality.

It's not like the process of determining what is 1.5 gun is very scientific vs a stock Wilson, Baer, etc.

There are just TOO many variables at play to consider.

Officer's Match
02-28-2010, 12:23
John at Proload told me he thought the 1.5" option from Baer was a waste of money and most of the regular Baers will shoot 2-3 inches at 50 yards. I always couldn't help but wonder if the 1.5" guns aren't built any different they just sort out the real accurate ones and sell them at a premium. :dunno:

Just passin' on some potentially inaccurate internet-info, but I read that the 1.5" LB upgrade includes barrels that passed a test fixture accuracy evaluation. I don't know it that's true, but Kart does make LB's barrels exclusively for Baer with a proprietary rifling, so it's not out of the question that the 1.5 incher's have "cream of the crop" barrels.

PlasticGuy
02-28-2010, 17:04
Yeah that's all good in theory but it's feel good mentality...
Smaller groups are smaller groups. Unless it costs in terms of reliability (and mine doesn't), there really isn't a downside to having a more accurate handgun.

bac1023
02-28-2010, 19:24
Just passin' on some potentially inaccurate internet-info, but I read that the 1.5" LB upgrade includes barrels that passed a test fixture accuracy evaluation. I don't know it that's true, but Kart does make LB's barrels exclusively for Baer with a proprietary rifling, so it's not out of the question that the 1.5 incher's have "cream of the crop" barrels.

The RRA Limited Match came with same guarantee.

Standard, no less. :)

MD357
02-28-2010, 20:49
Smaller groups are smaller groups.

Problem is that humans can't reproduce the difference.

MastiffMan
02-28-2010, 22:41
Just passin' on some potentially inaccurate internet-info, but I read that the 1.5" LB upgrade includes barrels that passed a test fixture accuracy evaluation. I don't know it that's true, but Kart does make LB's barrels exclusively for Baer with a proprietary rifling, so it's not out of the question that the 1.5 incher's have "cream of the crop" barrels.

You get around 8 hours more bench time on your pistol for the $295 1 1/2"

MastiffMan
02-28-2010, 22:50
Smaller groups are smaller groups. Unless it costs in terms of reliability (and mine doesn't), there really isn't a downside to having a more accurate handgun.

well said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PlasticGuy
03-01-2010, 08:28
Problem is that humans can't reproduce the difference.
If the pistol shoots 1" smaller groups, your overall groups will be 1" smaller than whatever they were before. There's really nothing to debate about that. Whether it's worth it to you is another question entirely, but the results are 100% predictable.

HAIL CAESAR
03-01-2010, 09:50
If the pistol shoots 1" smaller groups, your overall groups will be 1" smaller than whatever they were before. There's really nothing to debate about that. Whether it's worth it to you is another question entirely, but the results are 100% predictable.

A normal 3 inch Baer will shoot under 3 inches at 5 yards, most seem capable of 2.5 or barely under. The 1.5 guns will just barely do that because at the 1.5 gun you are pushing the limits of the gun and the ammo. So this is at 50 yards through a mechanical rest, with the best ammunition or reloads tailored to the gun. So under ideal circumstances the difference is an inch or so at 50 yards.

That translates to half an inch at 25 yards even in a machine rest. With the bullet diameter of .452 you would need calipers to discern the difference, again with a machine rest.

So, no I don't think you would or could tell the difference between the 3 inch and the 1.5 gun in blind test shooting offhand.

HAIL CAESAR
03-01-2010, 09:56
...And not meant for EVERYBODY on the site because I have seen a few good groups.


But......I have seen a BUNCH of basketball to beach ball size groups at 25 yard posted on here ( and some at 15 and even 7 yards). So a 1.5 gun isn't going to do a damn thing for them.

MD357
03-01-2010, 09:57
If the pistol shoots 1" smaller groups, your overall groups will be 1" smaller than whatever they were before. There's really nothing to debate about that. Whether it's worth it to you is another question entirely, but the results are 100% predictable.

1" at 50yds. Anyone that has even remedial experience in testing knows nothing is 100% predictable. Again, there are too many variables and the significance is too small for a human to notice. Not one person said they can print those groups at 50yds. We all know or should know that a stock Baer can print only small deviance from said 1.5 group. At SD distances that deviance would be even smaller. Someone is better better off getting a trigger job, and better sights, rather a gun set up to your exact preference OR if the gun is set up perfectly in your opinion then ammo to practice.

HAIL CAESAR
03-01-2010, 13:56
1" at 50yds. Anyone that has even remedial experience in testing knows nothing is 100% predictable. Again, there are too many variables and the significance is too small for a human to notice. Not one person said they can print those groups at 50yds. We all know or should know that a stock Baer can print only small deviance from said 1.5 group. At SD distances that deviance would be even smaller. Someone is better better off getting a trigger job, and better sights, rather a gun set up to your exact preference OR if the gun is set up perfectly in your opinion then ammo to practice.

Agreed. Good sights, decent trigger, ammo tested to be accurate in YOUR gun, and trigger time ( and maybe instruction from a instructor) will be more beneficial than a 1.5 guarantee gun.

I've seen lots of folks that couldn't hit a man size target consistently at 25 yards, let alone 50. I wouldn't matter if they had a .1mm at 50 yard gun or a good 3 inch at 25 gun. It is the jerk jerking the trigger not the fancy gun.

More shooting, more training, and more techniques always trump fancy guns.

Rinspeed
03-01-2010, 15:10
You're both missing his point by a mile. :wavey:

HAIL CAESAR
03-01-2010, 15:11
You're both missing his point by a mile. :wavey:

Whatcha mean?:dunno:

PlasticGuy
03-01-2010, 15:30
You're both missing his point by a mile. :wavey:
You read my mind. I don't know if they don't understand, or if they don't want to understand. Either way...

HAIL CAESAR
03-01-2010, 15:35
Well then explain with great detail and personal experience.

Rinspeed
03-01-2010, 15:41
Whatcha mean?:dunno:




What I mean is I agree with him. The difference might be small but there will be a difference. The difference will be much easier to quantify as a shooter gets better or is using a rest but even off hand there will be a small difference.

HAIL CAESAR
03-01-2010, 15:57
What I mean is I agree with him. The difference might be small but there will be a difference. The difference will be much easier to quantify as a shooter gets better or is using a rest but even off hand there will be a small difference.

Oh, I agree...there will be a difference.:wavey:

But other than using a Ransom Rest bolted to a cement block in the ground shooting many groups and then pouring over them with a magnifying glass and a good set of calipers..........................what is the point for the average shooter being under an Olympic class shooter?:dunno:

I've have both Baer's, a 3 and a 1.5. I have a Ransom Rest cemented into the ground. I have shot both numerous times head to head. I'm telling you boys....it ain't worth all the trouble to discern the difference. It easier to tell at a hundred yards than it is at 50. Anybody here shoot a hundred yards with much regularity?

Baer's biggest distributor will tell you the 1.5's are not worth it. Baer says not to use a 1.5 for Law Enforcement use.

Les's own full blown competition guns are only 3 and 2.5 guns. He makes a CMP gun that is only (funny thing saying "only") rated at 3 inches.
The "Ultimate Master" is a 3 inch gun.

I actually sent one 1.5 Baer off to John Harrsion to be "De-Baer'ed". I carry it on duty.

MastiffMan
03-01-2010, 18:20
Ed Brown ET with a trigger job 2 pound
27 yards Indoors Hand Held
Nosler 185 grain
4.2 clays

2 (5) Round Groups 1 1/2"
1 (10) round group 2 4/16"



http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s1/cjstinks/100_0868-1-1.jpg?t=1267491563http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s1/cjstinks/100_1062-1.jpg?t=1267491763http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s1/cjstinks/100_1063-1.jpg?t=1267491803


http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s1/cjstinks/mm01922-1-2.jpg?t=1267492267
Wilson Custom Classic with a Bar Sto Barrel
25 yards


http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s1/cjstinks/100_0525-1-1.jpg?t=1267492464
Ed Brown Jeff Copper 25 Yards

MastiffMan
03-01-2010, 18:23
Les Baer 1 1/2" 27 yards

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s1/cjstinks/100_0454.jpg?t=1267492891
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s1/cjstinks/100_0457.jpg?t=1267492923

HAIL CAESAR
03-01-2010, 19:03
Mastiff, that's some fine shootin!

Rinspeed
03-01-2010, 19:18
Oh, I agree...there will be a difference.:wavey:




Ok, then that settles it. :tongueout:

HAIL CAESAR
03-01-2010, 19:21
Ok, then that settles it. :tongueout:

:tongueout:

Come over sometime. We'll fire up the rest and calipers. I'll have some beer and Patron chilling for after.

PlasticGuy
03-01-2010, 19:39
Oh, I agree...there will be a difference...
That's all I'm saying. Whether it's worth it or not is certainly debatable, but there is at least a small difference. If reliability isn't compromised, I don't see a downside.

I guess they do cost a bit more, but I wasn't going to pay $2000 for a handgun and then balk about an extra couple hundred to get a slightly more accurate one. Of course that just comes down to a personal choice, but we agree that there is a difference and my thinking was (and is) "Why not?"

bac1023
03-01-2010, 19:41
Les Baer 1 1/2" 27 yards

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s1/cjstinks/100_0454.jpg?t=1267492891
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s1/cjstinks/100_0457.jpg?t=1267492923

Nice shooting :thumbsup:

Rinspeed
03-01-2010, 19:46
:tongueout:

Come over sometime. We'll fire up the rest and calipers. I'll have some beer and Patron chilling for after.





Sounds like a good time my friend, I just might have to take you up on that at some point.

HAIL CAESAR
03-01-2010, 19:57
That's all I'm saying. Whether it's worth it or not is certainly debatable, but there is at least a small difference. If reliability isn't compromised, I don't see a downside.

I guess they do cost a bit more, but I wasn't going to pay $2000 for a handgun and then balk about an extra couple hundred to get a slightly more accurate one. Of course that just comes down to a personal choice, but we agree that there is a difference and my thinking was (and is) "Why not?"

I think my post of "Oh, there will be a difference" was taken out of context. I meant it as a joke as in there will be a difference only discernable with

A solidly mounted Ransom Rest,

Pet loads or tailor made loads to each gun, 10 rounds groups and several, several of them for each gun to weed out any flukes, flunks, and fliers,

And a good set of calipers and a magnifying glass.

If you mean a difference with all the above criteria.. then yes there will be a difference.

In an actual persons hands in a blind test of a 1.5 and a 3 inch gun with the shooter not knowing which was which, with the shooter of any degree less than a world renowned shooter.....You couldn't tell the difference. (I threw in the "world renowned shooter" part as I couldn't say what Robbie, Todd, or some of the big boys can tell the difference in offhand shooting, but IMO they couldn't tell. But maybe they could.)

And as far as reliability goes I didn't have a problem with any of mine after 3 to 500 rounds.

BUT LES BAER himself will tell you not to use a 1.5 gun for a LEO or carry gun! Because they are too tight. You can here it straight from the man that builds them, you have to listen.

Rinspeed. Your always welcome. Not fighting, just debating differences in opinions.

HAIL CAESAR
03-01-2010, 20:04
<a href="http://s390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/hailcaesar_photos/?action=view&current=_JBP1541.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/hailcaesar_photos/_JBP1541.jpg" border="0" alt="Baer right"></a>

Here is a pic of my De-Baer'ed 1.5 that I carry at work. Baer himself said not to carry it and Harrison said not to carry it when he looked it over. Then John worked it a bit and said "carry away".

gconan
03-01-2010, 21:12
Agreed. Good sights, decent trigger, ammo tested to be accurate in YOUR gun, and trigger time ( and maybe instruction from a instructor) will be more beneficial than a 1.5 guarantee gun.



More shooting, more training, and more techniques always trump fancy guns.


Yet that 1.5 guaranteed gun with all of the above is icing on the cake!

MD357
03-01-2010, 21:58
Oh, I agree...there will be a difference.:wavey:

But other than using a Ransom Rest bolted to a cement block in the ground shooting many groups and then pouring over them with a magnifying glass and a good set of calipers..........................what is the point for the average shooter being under an Olympic class shooter?:dunno:

I've have both Baer's, a 3 and a 1.5. I have a Ransom Rest cemented into the ground. I have shot both numerous times head to head. I'm telling you boys....it ain't worth all the trouble to discern the difference. It easier to tell at a hundred yards than it is at 50. Anybody here shoot a hundred yards with much regularity?

Baer's biggest distributor will tell you the 1.5's are not worth it. Baer says not to use a 1.5 for Law Enforcement use.

Les's own full blown competition guns are only 3 and 2.5 guns. He makes a CMP gun that is only (funny thing saying "only") rated at 3 inches.
The "Ultimate Master" is a 3 inch gun.



Ding ding ding. The 1.5 guarantee sounds really cool at the BBQ though. :supergrin:

I guess Mr. Harrison, John @ Proload, and even Mr. Baer himself "just don't understand either."

MD357
03-01-2010, 22:07
Agreed. Good sights, decent trigger, ammo tested to be accurate in YOUR gun, and trigger time ( and maybe instruction from a instructor) will be more beneficial than a 1.5 guarantee gun.

I've seen lots of folks that couldn't hit a man size target consistently at 25 yards, let alone 50. I wouldn't matter if they had a .1mm at 50 yard gun or a good 3 inch at 25 gun. It is the jerk jerking the trigger not the fancy gun.

More shooting, more training, and more techniques always trump fancy guns.

A huge +1

Someone's money is better spent taking a class from an acredited shooting school. Granted it won't say it on the side of your gun or the box it came in but your accuracy will improve far more than anything most mortal shooters would have to gain over a stock Les Baer.

MastiffMan
03-01-2010, 22:57
VERY NICE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/hailcaesar_photos/_JBP1541.jpg (http://s390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/hailcaesar_photos/?action=view&current=_JBP1541.jpg)

Here is a pic of my De-Baer'ed 1.5 that I carry at work. Baer himself said not to carry it and Harrison said not to carry it when he looked it over. Then John worked it a bit and said "carry away".

HAIL CAESAR
03-01-2010, 22:59
VERY NICE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

Thank you. Seems you might even be able to shoot it better than I do. :wavey:

MastiffMan
03-01-2010, 23:03
Thanks for the nice words !!! I did not post my worst Targets and trust me some times I SUCK at the range ....:brickwall:

Mastiff, that's some fine shootin!

MastiffMan
03-01-2010, 23:08
You are very welcome .. that thing looks awesome and you could hit a bad guy with it and kill them without shooting it....:supergrin:


Thank you. Seems you might even be able to shoot it better than I do. :wavey:

HAIL CAESAR
03-01-2010, 23:08
Yeah, sometimes I can almost drive tacks. Sometimes I just keep them all in the 9 ring.

Sometime I'll post my 20 yard smiley face I shot in front of some new Deputies that were making fun of my "old fashion gun". ( I could never do it again in a hundred years.)

MD357
03-01-2010, 23:10
Thanks for the nice words !!! I did not post my worst Targets and trust me some times I SUCK at the range ....:brickwall:


Funny thing is, and the targets are some hella good shooting BTW, is that your EB seems to be tuned just right for you.


HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?!!!! :supergrin:

HAIL CAESAR
03-01-2010, 23:11
You are very welcome .. that thing looks awesome and you could hit a bad guy with it and kill them without shooting it....:supergrin:

Yeah, I even had the steel Dawson rail put in. Harrison asked about going aluminum and I said no I want steel.
When he asked why I said because I may have to smash a thick skull with it one of these days. John said "Good enough reason.".

MastiffMan
03-01-2010, 23:23
Thanks !!!!!!!
I only wish I did that every range session .. I use too shot with 2 guys who are freaky at 25 & 50 yards ..but they did it with 1 Hand..
They where <cite>bulls eye shooter's</cite> that use to help me when I started shooting a few years ago. Man those guys where fun to watch ..one of them got a Rock River .. he had a few pistols and like the Rock River... I moved 2 1/2 years ago and miss shooting with them...

Nice shooting :thumbsup:

MastiffMan
03-01-2010, 23:33
Ed Browns triggers are not very good ... I had a gunsmith do a trigger job that was unreal... maybe 2 pounds and it made that thing a good shooting pistol..
I sold it and wish I had it back... Ed does a nice pistol but JMO his triggers need to be a little better...

Funny thing is, and the targets are some hella good shooting BTW, is that your EB seems to be tuned just right for you.


HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?!!!! :supergrin:

MastiffMan
03-01-2010, 23:35
Yeah, sometimes I can almost drive tacks. Sometimes I just keep them all in the 9 ring.

Sometime I'll post my 20 yard smiley face I shot in front of some new Deputies that were making fun of my "old fashion gun". ( I could never do it again in a hundred years.)

I bet you could do it again ...:wave:

PlasticGuy
03-01-2010, 23:51
A huge +1

Someone's money is better spent taking a class from an acredited shooting school. Granted it won't say it on the side of your gun or the box it came in but your accuracy will improve far more than anything most mortal shooters would have to gain over a stock Les Baer.
Of course you're right. Then again, your average shooter could not prove the accuracy difference between a RIA and a 1.5" Baer. While there would be a difference, it would be more due to the sights and trigger than the mechanical accuracy. Many would never shoot their 1911 enough to tell the difference in durability between cast and forged parts. Most would not know the difference beween a normal Wilson and a Wilson Super Grade, but I don't think anybody who knows 1911's would argue that there isn't a difference.

How much more accurate is a 1.5" Baer than a "standard" Baer? The short answer is that I don't know, or at least I can't quantify the difference. The group on the test target for my 1.5" Premier II is 1.2", compared to closer to 2.0" for both of the standard versions I've owned. The 1.5" is a little tighter fitted and no less reliable. There's not a doubt in my mind that you do get a slightly tighter fit for the extra $295, but I'm not sure how to quantify that. All I can say is that there is a difference, and it's worth the money to me.

PlasticGuy
03-02-2010, 17:39
[IMG]...Here is a pic of my De-Baer'ed 1.5 that I carry at work...
I love those sights. I've been looking for something like that for my Premier II. What are they?

HAIL CAESAR
03-02-2010, 17:42
I love those sights. I've been looking for something like that for my Premier II. What are they?

They are John Harrison's own design. He sells them off his website and they are on Brownell's.

PlasticGuy
03-02-2010, 17:47
They are John Harrison's own design. He sells them off his website and they are on Brownell's.
Thank you. I'll get some ordered.

I know we disagree on a few minor points here, but our ideas of what constitutes a quality fighting 1911 seem pretty similar.

HAIL CAESAR
03-02-2010, 17:51
Thank you. I'll get some ordered.

I know we disagree on a few minor points here, but our ideas of what constitutes a quality fighting 1911 seem pretty similar.

Your welcome.

Ah, shucks, I just like a good argument sometimes. It is harder to do over the errornet than it is to do in person. Mainly because you can't see me smiling and laughing, which means I'm just having fun and not being a crapazz.

Rinspeed
03-02-2010, 18:43
They are John Harrison's own design. He sells them off his website and they are on Brownell's.




It's very sharp but I guess I don't really understand that sight design. It appears to be made out of three pieces and I can't figure out why, unless maybe it's a modular approach so you can switch from fixed to adjustable.

HAIL CAESAR
03-02-2010, 18:46
It's a sight designed to fit a existing Bo-Mar adjustable cut.

bac1023
03-02-2010, 19:38
<a href="http://s390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/hailcaesar_photos/?action=view&current=_JBP1541.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/hailcaesar_photos/_JBP1541.jpg" border="0" alt="Baer right"></a>

Here is a pic of my De-Baer'ed 1.5 that I carry at work. Baer himself said not to carry it and Harrison said not to carry it when he looked it over. Then John worked it a bit and said "carry away".



Very nice, Al. :thumbsup:

HAIL CAESAR
03-02-2010, 19:40
Very nice, Al. :thumbsup:

Thanks Brian.:wavey:

bac1023
03-02-2010, 19:45
Is that the Bear Coat finish?

Looks nice.

HAIL CAESAR
03-02-2010, 19:46
IonBond

bac1023
03-04-2010, 17:41
IonBond

I've got the STI Legacy with the PVD ionbond finish and its great.