What Do You Feed Your Top Tier AR? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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djegators
02-24-2010, 16:57
My Noveske is en route, and it got me to thinking about types of ammo. I do not shoot Wolf in anything other than Eastern Bloc firearms. But I do find Federal value box .223 sometimes, and of course PMC Bronze...but what do you guys feed your top tier ARs?

faawrenchbndr
02-24-2010, 17:02
Anything but Wolf

phxfa
02-24-2010, 17:07
Georgia Arms canned heat for plinking and Hornady TAP 60 grain for hunting/social work,,,

TimP
02-24-2010, 17:10
my AR's eat whatever I feed them, wolf included. If my gun won't run wolf, I dont want to own that rifle. I own Noveske's, Daniel Defense, MSTN, Bushmaster, LMT, home-made, Sabre Defence. They ALL eat wolf just like any other ammo.

Randolph da man
02-24-2010, 17:15
my AR's eat whatever I feed them, wolf included. If my gun won't run wolf, I dont want to own that rifle. I own Noveske's, Daniel Defense, MSTN, Bushmaster, LMT, home-made, Sabre Defence. They ALL eat wolf just like any other ammo.

this...

I shoot any/everything out of my Noveske's. anything from steel cased junk to SSA stuff.
if your high end weapon wont shoot junk, you might as well buy a junky weapon like BM, DPMS, RRA and oly. :tongueout:

RMTactical
02-24-2010, 17:23
Wolf is last resort ammo for me. That said, if your AR15 won't run decent quality ammo (steel cased or not) it is not a high quality rifle.

faawrenchbndr
02-24-2010, 17:24
this...

I shoot any/everything out of my Noveske's. anything from steel cased junk to SSA stuff.
if your high end weapon wont shoot junk, you might as well buy a junky weapon like BM, DPMS, RRA and oly. :tongueout:

I like the way you worded it better,......:rofl:

crazymoose
02-24-2010, 17:24
All of my AR's get mostly Wolf, and I only use "top tier" parts.

djegators
02-24-2010, 17:58
Thanks...I should have been more clear...I wasn't asking so much what your rifle handles, but what you prefer to shoot. Thanks for all the input.

faawrenchbndr
02-24-2010, 19:05
I have always preferred Winchester Q3131
I used to have a good stash of Radaway Green, but it's long gone.

Constructor
02-24-2010, 19:29
How do you properly port a rifle to run 32gr ammo and 77gr Mk262?
If you port it to run cheap 55gr UMC or American eagle and eject to hit at 3 O'clock then when you run 77gr MK262 it will hit around 1 O'clock. Most commercial rifles are over gassed because the manufacturers don't want returns or warrenty issues so what do they care if your rifle gets the crap beat out of it and shears the bolt at the cam pin hole, afterall most don't know why the cases land at 1 O'clock as long as it ejects and feeds right?

Winchester White box(M193) from Wally World for cheap stuff, some real M193 surplus runs at 58000psi too and is ok for practice and 3 gun, carbine classes etc, 55gr Nosler handloads for varmints, 75gr Amax for long distance. Federal's gold 69gr stuff is good for punching paper accurately.

firefyter55
02-24-2010, 19:33
Personally I run Federal XM193, seems to be cleaner than WWB and of course wolf. That being said, its more for cleaning than anything. I would rather buy cleaner ammo then spend 2 hours cleaning my AR versus 1 hour with cleaner ammo. (Times are just an example). I had a Custom Wilson Combat AR that I put 1000 rounds in a day of wolf through it and only had a couple bad rounds but I had to soak my bolt for 3 days to get it clean.

HomeLandPatriot
02-24-2010, 19:55
How do you properly port a rifle to run 32gr ammo and 77gr Mk262?
If you port it to run cheap 55gr UMC or American eagle and eject to hit at 3 O'clock then when you run 77gr MK262 it will hit around 1 O'clock. Most commercial rifles are over gassed because the manufacturers don't want returns or warrenty issues so what do they care if your rifle gets the crap beat out of it and shears the bolt at the cam pin hole, afterall most don't know why the cases land at 1 O'clock as long as it ejects and feeds right?


:headscratch::dunno:

beemerphile
02-24-2010, 20:55
I just bought a few K of American Tactical Imports 62 gr. from Turkey. Incredibly well made. Brass case, non-corrosive. Comes with a signed COA and accuracy certificate. Price was great for the quality. Bought some 150 gr. .308 for my REPR as well. Same good story.

gsdrulz
02-24-2010, 21:10
Black Hills(blue or red box) for my LMT is preferred but any thing I can get my hands on works to.(yes that includes Wolf)

crazymoose
02-24-2010, 22:59
How do you properly port a rifle to run 32gr ammo and 77gr Mk262?
If you port it to run cheap 55gr UMC or American eagle and eject to hit at 3 O'clock then when you run 77gr MK262 it will hit around 1 O'clock. Most commercial rifles are over gassed because the manufacturers don't want returns or warrenty issues so what do they care if your rifle gets the crap beat out of it and shears the bolt at the cam pin hole, afterall most don't know why the cases land at 1 O'clock as long as it ejects and feeds right?

Winchester White box(M193) from Wally World for cheap stuff, some real M193 surplus runs at 58000psi too and is ok for practice and 3 gun, carbine classes etc, 55gr Nosler handloads for varmints, 75gr Amax for long distance. Federal's gold 69gr stuff is good for punching paper accurately.


As far as I'm concerned, mags, bolts, and even rifles are expendable items that will wear out over the course of a steady training or shooting regimen. Quality parts will last longer and give fewer headaches.

Jer
02-24-2010, 23:17
What good is a high end AR that will only eat high end ammo? I feed my LMT whatever is on sale and haven't had a problem yet. If you buy/build a cheapie AR then it may only run the best of ammo but part of the bonus to a great rig is feeding it whatever you want and it eating it w/o missing a beat. If you're looking for accuracy and consistency well that's a different story.

Jeager106
02-25-2010, 01:41
Why are so many people over looking PMC?
I get 1 inch at 100 with ease from my Ar's.
By the case of 1k it's around #350.00.
My guns will shoot the Federal Wally stuff but groups average 2.5 inches.
I only shoot Wolf in my SKS.
Wolf is bad amo, why run it through an expensive rifle?
I've tried some in my Ar's and found it to be the dirtiest, and least accurate of all.
The difference in costbewteen Wolf and PMC is less than a nickle a round.

djegators
02-25-2010, 04:26
What good is a high end AR that will only eat high end ammo? I feed my LMT whatever is on sale and haven't had a problem yet. If you buy/build a cheapie AR then it may only run the best of ammo but part of the bonus to a great rig is feeding it whatever you want and it eating it w/o missing a beat. If you're looking for accuracy and consistency well that's a different story.


Again, who is saying that?

kabob983
02-25-2010, 06:41
I bought some of the Tula Cartridgeworks ammo (pretty much identical to Wolf and Monarch) at AIM surplus when 1K was $189 or so back in November. Academy Sports also sells Monarch steel case pretty cheap. I "prefer" to shoot whatever I can buy in bulk cheaply.

When it comes to defensive ammo it's tough to beat 75 gr Hornady TAP, but it's VERY expensive.

kabob983
02-25-2010, 06:44
Why are so many people over looking PMC?
I get 1 inch at 100 with ease from my Ar's.
By the case of 1k it's around #350.00.
My guns will shoot the Federal Wally stuff but groups average 2.5 inches.
I only shoot Wolf in my SKS.
Wolf is bad amo, why run it through an expensive rifle?
I've tried some in my Ar's and found it to be the dirtiest, and least accurate of all.
The difference in costbewteen Wolf and PMC is less than a nickle a round.

Wolf is "bad" ammo? Why's that, because it's a little dirtier? Not quite as accurate? If all you can shoot is PMC through your rifle (as mentioned) why not get a cheaper rifle? You're paying that extra $$ for a high quality rifle for the reliability/QC more than accuracy.

As for the difference in price being less than a nickel a round you're either getting a phenominal price on your PMC or you're overpaying for your Wolf.

phxfa
02-25-2010, 07:28
I just bought a few K of American Tactical Imports 62 gr. from Turkey. Incredibly well made. Brass case, non-corrosive. Comes with a signed COA and accuracy certificate. Price was great for the quality. Bought some 150 gr. .308 for my REPR as well. Same good story.
Care to share were you bought it? :cool:

Hedo1
02-25-2010, 07:36
Depends. I bought a lot of PMC from Natchez. I shoot it for plinking. I also like Black Hills ammo and never had a problem with it. My plinking and training handloads usually reuse the PMC brass.

For target shooting I use my handloads. In my carbine I like the 55gr. VMAX over Varget. For precision shooting in my heavy barrel rifle length AR I use the SIE 69gr. hpbt or the Nosler 77 gr. custom competition hpbt over varget and Nosler or WIN virgin brass.

BEER
02-25-2010, 07:43
both my stag and my noveske will eat anything i load them with. the noveske is such an awesome gun i'm thinking about stuffing a gutted mag full of rocks just to see if it will fire them. lol

kabob983
02-25-2010, 10:07
both my stag and my noveske will eat anything i load them with. the noveske is such an awesome gun i'm thinking about stuffing a gutted mag full of rocks just to see if it will fire them. lol

Please...spare the rifle that fate! :crying:

Jer
02-25-2010, 10:13
Again, who is saying that?

Uhh.... me? I just said that. Those were my opinions. I don't understand your question I guess. I wasn't correcting anyone, that's just my thoughts as the OP requested. Did I do something wrong?

KalashniKEV
02-25-2010, 10:15
Prvi M193.

I'm totally down with the "must shoot everything" comments, but for me:

1) Wolf doesn't produce the results I'm looking for
2) The cost difference wasn't much more when I stocked up heavy
3) If my primary starts messing up, I'm not one of those guys who can say, "it's just the ammo" or "it's just the mag" and shake it off. If Wolf was running low on powder that day and chose to make up the extra volume w/ sand it would shake my confidence forever.

Right now I stashed my remaining Prvi and I'm working on a box of PMC... which wasn't that much more either.

Jer
02-25-2010, 10:59
If Wolf was running low on powder that day and chose to make up the extra volume w/ sand...

Uhhh.... wut? :shocked:

Constructor
02-25-2010, 12:02
As far as I'm concerned, mags, bolts, and even rifles are expendable items that will wear out over the course of a steady training or shooting regimen. Quality parts will last longer and give fewer headaches.

I agree and that is why we manufacture 9310 alloy bolts with a larger dia around the cam pin hole, the issue is if I port barrels to run cheap UMC or American eagle and toss the cases to 3 O'clock like they should then when guys shoot 77gr heavy loads the cases eject to 1 O'clock and they complain because they eject to far forward.
I can port them to run well with M193 and Mk262 easy but they don't run so well with the cheap low powered ammo. The second thing is who knows what spring and buffer the customer is using, one guy may have a worn out carbine spring and carbine buffer, the next guy may have a H2 buffer with a full length SSS spring and a M16 carrier.
Stoner designed the AR as a 20" with a rifle gas system shooting 55gr bullets, for the last 50 years we(the public) have been changing it in every way and now expect it to shoot perfect with everything from 32gr varmint bullets to 90gr comp. bullets and a wide array of powder burn rates.
We have to consider the major portion of our sales and make our porting work with the loads most customers use then if the customer goes to one extreme or the other he needs to know enough about the weapon system to adjust to a heavier buffer and or SSS spring when shooting 77gr heavy loads so they don't eject to 1 O'clock and don't exert excess forces on the bolt lugs and cam pin. On the other end they can't use the cheapest junk ammo on the planet and expect it to shoot 1" groups and cycle correctly. Just saying there are limitations to the AR gas system and everyone needs to understand how the AR works and accept those limitations.

KalashniKEV
02-25-2010, 12:10
Uhhh.... wut? :shocked:

Somehow the "Western calibers" Wolf makes just don't perform the same way their East Bloc stuff does.

I shot some Wolf 9mm a while back that I don't think even had real gunpowder in it... or not all real gunpowder...

:shocked:





:supergrin:

Jer
02-25-2010, 12:11
Constructor, where are you from? I see Colorado and it sounds as though you are in business of weapon manufacturing or parts for said weapons, just curious.

Jer
02-25-2010, 12:13
Somehow the "Western calibers" Wolf makes just don't perform the same way their East Bloc stuff does.

I shot some Wolf 9mm a while back that I don't think even had real gunpowder in it... or not all real gunpowder...

:shocked:





:supergrin:


This is how rumors get started. Someone reads your post and before you know it some idiot is parroting that Wolf uses sand in their powder across the intrawebs and before you know it.. it's fact.

Constructor
02-25-2010, 12:16
Constructor, where are you from? I see Colorado and it sounds as though you are in business of weapon manufacturing or parts for said weapons, just curious.

The shop is in Pueblo West, we are a manufacturer.

WarMachine
02-25-2010, 14:51
Somehow the "Western calibers" Wolf makes just don't perform the same way their East Bloc stuff does.

I shot some Wolf 9mm a while back that I don't think even had real gunpowder in it... or not all real gunpowder...

:shocked:





:supergrin:

What in the world...

Can you elaborate on this? Was it the whole pack? Just one round? What makes you say it wasn't real gunpowder?

And filling up the remaining volume with "sand" is the most ridiculous thing I've heard this week. What would even be the point?

As far as answering the question, I run any and everything through my BCM, including Wolf if that's all that's available. But I make sure to clean it regularly when running the dirty stuff.

AK_Stick
02-25-2010, 15:34
I mainly shoot TAP, M855, and M-193 ball.

Don't really care who makes the M855, and M193 ball, so long as it meets the specs for the round.

KalashniKEV
02-25-2010, 15:46
Can you elaborate on this?

It could have also been sawdust... or maybe even salt... Wolf is junk ammo.

Whatever it was, I ran 100 rounds of 9mm and it was acting funny in my CZ-75, which always eats anything.

It was noticeable to me and my shooting buddy that the slide was moving really slowly, and not fully cycling. We said it was like, "yawning" at the time and laughed it off but it could have very easily turned into something bad.

I also had a whole bad batch of 7.62x39 "poly performance" from them, with numerous FTF on good smacked primers. I bought a case of their "classic" line recently, thinking it was old spec ammo and it's the same gray BS rounds... so I'm kind of frustrated with Wolf right now, and will avoid in the future.

Daekwan
02-25-2010, 15:49
Prvi 62 is my favourite. 1/7 barrel

That said I've shot a whole 30 round mag of PMC bronze 55gr, at 50 yards, into basically the size of a quarter. That alone makes me want to shoot PMC quality or less at the indoor ranges. When I can get outside, and shoot over 200 yds.. I'll start shooting my Prvi 62 again. May even try Priv 69, Prvi 75 match, or Prvi 5.56.

Will pick up some TAP 75g sooner or later. Cheapest I can find it right now is a $1 a round plus shipping.

KalashniKEV
02-25-2010, 15:51
Prvi 62 is my favourite. 1/7 barrel

That said I've shot a whole 30 round mag of PMC bronze 55gr, at 50 yards, into basically the size of a quarter. That alone makes me want to shoot PMC quality or less at the indoor ranges. When I can get outside, and shoot over 200 yds.. I'll start shooting my Prvi 62 again. May even try Priv 69, Prvi 75 match, or Prvi 5.56.

Will pick up some TAP 75g sooner or later. Cheapest I can find it right now is a $1 a round plus shipping.

Good info, I have a case of the ROK PMC from AIM I haven't broken into yet. I will def blaze some this weekend and see if my results are as good as the Prvi.

djegators
02-25-2010, 16:09
Uhh.... me? I just said that. Those were my opinions. I don't understand your question I guess. I wasn't correcting anyone, that's just my thoughts as the OP requested. Did I do something wrong?


No problem, I understand what you were saying. My point was not what the AR is capable of shooting, but what you prefer to shoot and why. I do not shoot Wolf in ARs, but not because I don't think they can handle it.

ArmoryDoc
02-25-2010, 16:50
I feed mine Wolf for play. The NATO stuff is on standby.

furioso2112
02-25-2010, 18:38
When I got into the AR platform, I bought most of the ammo I'll need for a while. Half Fed XM193 (55gr.), 25% Prvi 62 gr., 15% Prvi 77-gr. (or 75?), 10% Fed 63-gr. soft lead nose. I have 1-1x9" twist, 2-1x7" twist, and 1-1x8" twist 16" barreled uppers. Haven't shot the 1x9" yet, but I put about 800 rounds of the 55-gr through a Sig556. That was the first Ar (-ish) gun I bought, so I did a lot of fast firing and didn't really pay attention to accuracy. I now try to maximize the accuracy, even when firing fast. My 1 in 8" barrel is my go-to, and I think I might be better off with some 68/69 gr. (I have heard it exists, haven't looked for it yet).

I stay away from Wolf and even PMC bronze because I have read mostly that they are underpowered and dirty. I'm not opposed to shooting PMC Bronze, but will stay away from Wolf because I have also heard other horror stories about it. I'm not knocking it, as I said I don't have personal experience and have read plenty of posts and been next to plenty of shooters who had no problems with it. But I have enough for a while of the other stuff I bought.

I agree with the posters who mentioned that a 'high-quality' rifle ought to be able to shoot anything. I also agree with the previous post that mentioned if his primary went down, his confidence might be shaken unnecessarily.

sdsnet
02-25-2010, 18:53
Lake City M855

mboylan
02-25-2010, 19:44
Handloads

kabob983
02-26-2010, 10:36
That said I've shot a whole 30 round mag of PMC bronze 55gr, at 50 yards, into basically the size of a quarter.

Daekwan, video game shooting doesn't count man! :tongueout:

I kid, I kid!!!

Daekwan
02-26-2010, 10:40
I actually shoot alot worse in the videogame lol