Troy BUIS... Should these wiggle!? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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tjamazing
02-24-2010, 18:41
After all the reviews I read about these things being rock solid, I hope mine are lemons and that this isn't the standard.

I picked up the standard TROY front and rear BUIS and have attached them to my upper. Unfortunately, although they very audibly click into place when put in the "up" position, they have front-back play (particularly on the front sight). The front especially concerns me because if I wiggle it around, the sight doesn't necessarily settle in the place where it would if I manually push it all the way forward.

So, how tight should these be? Is any wiggle indicative of a problem, or is it a matter of how much wiggle? I was expecting these to feel like fixed sights once "locked" up and am a bit disappointed.

Is there any adjustment required that I'm not aware of?

Thanks in advance for any help.

MARSH1
02-24-2010, 21:01
Sounds normal. There is some play so they won't bind up if dirt or sand gets in them.

Seattle206
02-24-2010, 22:43
Everybody in my family and friends that own AR's all have troy buis and yes there is light play on the rear sight. out of 12 different ones ive flipped there is play.

AZ Husker
02-24-2010, 23:10
Sounds like a poor design to me. Wiggle means inaccuracy.

wingsprint
02-25-2010, 02:51
Totally normal-- due to the design, all of the flip ups have some play in them.

DLEE25
02-25-2010, 02:57
I bought my first Troy recently and also noticed a little play. I still have faith that it will be solid whenever I need it. I also use the MI low profile BUIS. It actually seems to have less play when in the folded position. However the Troy seems more robust in design. I use both. Both work.

Puppy
02-25-2010, 03:30
Yea my Troy BUIS has a little front to back wiggle but I think that's just the nature of flip up sights.

Sportsfame18
02-25-2010, 05:00
are these better than the magpul BUIS?

faawrenchbndr
02-25-2010, 05:43
are these better than the magpul BUIS?

They cost 2.5 times more than the MBUS,.......but I think they are stronger.
The Troy sights are the standard to which all others are judged.

0reo
02-25-2010, 07:16
I bought a GG&G front flip-up BUIS / gas block. There is no play at all. Positively locks up quietly and feels solid as a rock.

MARSH1
02-25-2010, 07:35
Sounds like a poor design to me. Wiggle means inaccuracy. My EOTech mounts solid as a rock.

It is part of the design. They are a folding backup sight. The last thing you want is for a backup sight to not fully deploy because there is some dirt in them. For a precision primary iron sight there are other options.

MaximaDrvr
02-25-2010, 09:12
are these better than the magpul BUIS?

Never dealt with the troy, but my Magpuls are rock solid in either the raised or lowered position.

Kahrguy330
02-25-2010, 10:14
The Troy BUIS that came on my Noveske have zero wobble... To the OP, perhaps give Troy a call and tell them your concern?

MARSH1
02-25-2010, 13:53
I know that people post a lot of opinions on the web but we are a Troy factory direct dealer. We have sold hundreds on theses sights. The movement is normal and part of the design for the reasons I have already posted. A quick call to Troy cust support will verify that.

Thanks
Marshall

KalashniKEV
02-25-2010, 14:16
They all wiggle a bit, nothing that flips up is going to be "rock solid." If you ever see high speed film of different guns w/ the bolt going back and the brass kicking out, take a look at the sights.

So long as they go back to the same place before you sqeeze again, you're GTG.

tjamazing
02-25-2010, 20:01
Thanks to everyone for contributing. This generated alot more discussion than I expected. I have posted a small video of what is happening, so please give me your impressions, especially on the front sight.

If you look carefully, you'll notice that the front sight does not return to it's original full upright position after I wiggle it around. The rear sight moves far less, and I guess I can live with that.

Video... (http://testingonetwo.shutterfly.com/pictures)

Again, thanks for the help.

Kentak
02-25-2010, 20:11
Sounds like a poor design to me. Wiggle means inaccuracy.

Not at all. If his sight is like mine, there is no side to side play, just a very slight front to back movement. No effect on the POI.

KalashniKEV
02-25-2010, 20:17
.
Video... (http://testingonetwo.shutterfly.com/pictures)


Yeah, they all do that. No issue.

Kentak
02-25-2010, 20:26
If you look carefully, you'll notice that the front sight does not return to it's original full upright position after I wiggle it around. The rear sight moves far less, and I guess I can live with that.

It's great that you posted a vid. So many problems people post about on gun forums would be so much easier to understand with a pic or a vid.

Anyway, I see what you mean about the front sight not returning to full upright. However, it's such a tiny amount that it's not going to make any difference in accuracy. Now, on mine, the wiggle is about the same, but there is enough spring tension to return it to full upright.

I bet your sights are just tight and there is a little more friction in the pivot than some others. Put a couple drops of oil into each side of the sight and work it through it's full range of motion a bunch of times. Good chance that might free it up enough to return to full upright.

tjamazing
02-26-2010, 20:42
...

I bet your sights are just tight and there is a little more friction in the pivot than some others. Put a couple drops of oil into each side of the sight and work it through it's full range of motion a bunch of times. Good chance that might free it up enough to return to full upright.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it a try. Even it it wiggles, I'd still like it to return to full upright by itself.

If I were clever enough, I would measure the difference in height between full upright and wiggled back and figure out the theoretical difference in POI at 100 yards that the difference means. Maybe it's so small that the answer is .01 inches. Or, maybe it's .5 inches. In any case, it's likely to amount to nothing but I wish I knew.

Kentak
02-26-2010, 23:33
If I were clever enough, I would measure the difference in height between full upright and wiggled back and figure out the theoretical difference in POI at 100 yards that the difference means. Maybe it's so small that the answer is .01 inches. Or, maybe it's .5 inches. In any case, it's likely to amount to nothing but I wish I knew.

Dude! That's what you're worried about?

Sleep easy, friend. There's no affect on POI of any significance. Judging from your video, your front sight wiggle is about the same as my Troy front sight wiggle. Now, with the rifle held securely, look straight down on the front sight post. You'll see, of course, that the post is not a "theoretical" line, but a three dimensional rectangular solid. Wiggle the post. On mine, the amount of movement isn't any more than the thickness of the post (Don't hold the post out of position, just let it return where it wants to). Theoretically, the rearward pivoting of the post out of vertical reduces its vertical height slightly. But, your post is not a theoretical line. It has front to back thickness. Assuming Troy built the sight with the pivot point under the center, the muzzle side of the post tilts rearward during the wiggle, but rises very slightly since it's forward of the pivot point, offsetting, for a short distance, the vertical drop of the center of the post. In other words, your sight would have to wiggle more than it does to measurably affect POI.

Your wiggling sight might make a difference if you were shooting perfect ammunition through perfectly still air holding the rifle perfectly steady maintaining the front post perfectly centered in the rear sight with eyes of perfect acuity.....etc.

Puppy
02-27-2010, 03:59
Thanks to everyone for contributing. This generated alot more discussion than I expected. I have posted a small video of what is happening, so please give me your impressions, especially on the front sight.

If you look carefully, you'll notice that the front sight does not return to it's original full upright position after I wiggle it around. The rear sight moves far less, and I guess I can live with that.

Video... (http://testingonetwo.shutterfly.com/pictures)

Again, thanks for the help.

Normal.

faawrenchbndr
02-27-2010, 06:25
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it a try. Even it it wiggles, I'd still like it to return to full upright by itself.

If I were clever enough, I would measure the difference in height between full upright and wiggled back and figure out the theoretical difference in POI at 100 yards that the difference means. Maybe it's so small that the answer is .01 inches. Or, maybe it's .5 inches. In any case, it's likely to amount to nothing but I wish I knew.

The small movement that the sights MAY have, is not going to effect 99.9%
of the shooter's abilities to consistantly aquire the exact same sight picture,
exact same cheek weld and the exact same trigger pull EACH shot.
Not to mention ammo inconsistancy or POI changes due to the barrel heating up a bit.

In short,......you will not shoot consistantly enough to notice even the slightest bit of differance.

Kentak
02-27-2010, 07:54
The small movement that the sights MAY have, is not going to effect 99.9%
of the shooter's abilities to consistantly aquire the exact same sight picture,
exact same cheek weld and the exact same trigger pull EACH shot.
Not to mention ammo inconsistancy or POI changes due to the barrel heating up a bit.

In short,......you will not shoot consistantly enough to notice even the slightest bit of differance.

Totally agreed, as that was my point above. I still think the sights are just tight and if he just works them through the full range of motion a couple dozen times and puts a little lube on the pivot, they'll return to full vertical from the inherent spring tension.

tjamazing
02-27-2010, 17:07
Your wiggling sight might make a difference if you were shooting perfect ammunition through perfectly still air holding the rifle perfectly steady maintaining the front post perfectly centered in the rear sight with eyes of perfect acuity.....etc.

I do all of this except for the air. I haven't become master of the elements yet to ensure calm air. ;)

In all seriousness, it sounds like I can put this behind me. No issue. Thanks for the input.