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A6Gator
02-27-2010, 08:05
Just got a Buckmark UDX and after cleaning/lubing, took it to the range. Sometimes I get through an entire mag w/out a FTF (failure to fire) and sometimes I don't. I can't tie it to any particular magazine, and while it happens more frequently w/Remington bulk ammo, it's also happened w/Winchester and Federal. So, far I have around 700 rounds through it.

The cleared round will have just a real light firing pin hit on the rim. If I rechamber the round, it'll fire, but this lack of reliability is going to be a problem in Steel Challenge. Anybody come across this before and what did you do to fix it? It's a tack driver and feels great in my hand, so it's a keeper, just gotta get through this rough spot.

DJ Niner
02-27-2010, 14:48
In my experience, a light hit is usually a sign that the slide didn't close all the way when the round was chambered. When the hammer fell, some of the energy that usually would be used to strike the firing pin was re-directed to closing the slide, robbing the system of the power needed to hit the pin hard enough to fire the round. Also, if the slide is not fully closed, the round can move forward under the impact of the firing pin, preventing the rim from being properly "crushed" between the pin and the face of the barrel/chamber.

I'd start by cleaning the chamber really well with a new (non-worn) bronze bore brush to hopefully prevent crud-related chambering problems. Next, I'd try some different ammo, as much of the bulk-packed ammo is having reliability and consistency problems of late (if you believe the many reports that are surfacing). Although it's more expensive, I'd suggest CCI Mini-Mags (round nose if you can find them, hollow points if you can't). My local Walmart carries them for $6.47 a hundred, and the local farm store for about the same. I know it would be great to have your gun shoot the cheap stuff with match ammo precision and military reliability, but the odds of that happening seem to be getting less and less likely.

To keep costs reasonable, practice with the cheap stuff, do a final zero check and practice session right before the match with the good stuff, and use the good stuff in the match/competition.

If nothing else, a few problem-free sessions with the CCI stuff may prove your troubles are ammo-related, and restore your confidence in your weapon.


.

A6Gator
02-27-2010, 17:54
I'll try some of the CCI. Talked w/some of the buds today and they suggested both making sure the chamber is clean and the bolt face is clean too. I'll give it a good scrubbing, try some CCI and see how it works out. If that doesn't make it, it's going back to Browning...

DWARREN123
02-27-2010, 22:00
When cleaning use a good gun lube and look for any rub marks on the slide/frame that may be causing a problem. Use a high velocity/high quality ammo. CCI is usually very good and I like PMC Moderator and Eley Target for rifles. Also another round that has surprised me in my Buckmark is CCI SGB.
Hope you get it worked out without having to send it off.

A6Gator
02-27-2010, 22:17
Thanks. I cleaned the dickens out of it today. I use Militec-1. Tried to not overdo it and use a light touch. We'll see how it works out tomorrow.

Jeff82
02-27-2010, 22:29
My BM has to have at least 50 rounds through it before it acts right. I deap clean it once before season, Oct - Mar, then shoot a box (50) through it, then shoot in Bullseye competition. During the season I'll occasionally clean the chamber with a chamber brush, boltface/extractor with a toothbrush, and run a bore snake through the bore a few times but that's it. And ensure plenty of lube.

DJ Niner
02-28-2010, 01:13
I'll try some of the CCI. Talked w/some of the buds today and they suggested both making sure the chamber is clean and the bolt face is clean too. I'll give it a good scrubbing, try some CCI and see how it works out. If that doesn't make it, it's going back to Browning...I'd agree that is if doesn't run under those circumstances, it SHOULD go back.

A6Gator
02-28-2010, 11:23
Have you guys noticed any inconsistencies w/different ammo? I figured since I got it for Steel Challenge, that I'd be practicing a lot and wanted to use some type of bulk ammo. Remington bulk seemed to have the most failures to fire, but given the light firing pin strikes and the ammo subsequently firing, I think it should've worked right the first time... When I range tested it to make sure the sights were on, Winchester seemed the most accurate, then Federal, with both covering a ragged nickel at 15yds...the Remington was a bit all over.

Jeff82
02-28-2010, 18:43
I tested many varieties (over a dozen) of .22 ammo in my BM. A few were garbage, some were very good. I choose some of the lesser expensive 'very good' and shot it all year long. The next year I bought a case of the same ammo and it shot like dudu with malfunctions. Same ammo, different lot. I bought a case of the "next on my list" and used it that following year.

.22's are like this. They vary greatly and it's not dependent on the type, manufacturer, the gun it's in, etc. You have to find the lot that works the way you like in your pistol and use it. Once you find a lot that your gun likes buy as much of it as you can. Then start looking again when it's time to resupply.

A6Gator
02-28-2010, 18:52
Thanks for the insight. I know there are variances between rimfire ammo, which explains variances in accuracy. My main concern was the BM not firing consistently and the extracted round having a light firing pin/striker hit.

GSSF17
02-28-2010, 19:50
I shoot Federal Bulk and Remington Bulk (GBs) through my Buckmark with GREAT results. It will eat anythong I feed it, but shoots the mid- grade stuff quite well........

:wavey:

DJ Niner
02-28-2010, 20:57
I tested many varieties (over a dozen) of .22 ammo in my BM. A few were garbage, some were very good. I choose some of the lesser expensive 'very good' and shot it all year long. The next year I bought a case of the same ammo and it shot like dudu with malfunctions. Same ammo, different lot. I bought a case of the "next on my list" and used it that following year.

.22's are like this. They very greatly and it's not dependent on the type, manufacturer, the gun it's in, etc. You have to find the lot that works the way you like in your pistol and use it. Once you find a lot that your gun likes buy as much of it as you can. Then start looking again when it's time to resupply.Good advice, right there. With the variations we've been seeing lately, this is probably the best way to pick ammo. Unfortunately, with the shortage of different ammo types/brands on the shelves, it might be difficult to use this procedure. But if you can, it's a good way to go.

Billet
02-28-2010, 22:19
Bulk Remington Golden Bullets have been notorious for misfires in my Buck Marks and all of my .22s. Federal bulk .22's fire more reliably, but are weaker and frequently fail to eject. CCI Mini Mags or Federal Auto Match are closest to 100%, and I'd try these before concluding that the misfires are a problem with the pistol and not the ammo. .22 ammo can be either cheap or reliable, but rarely both.

A6Gator
03-02-2010, 08:45
After a THOROUGH cleaning and giving it a light lube, I tried 6 different kinds of ammo from 8 different magazines. Still an occasional failure to fire. Also, when it fails to fire, in pulling the slide back, it fails to extract. The round in the chamber will have a small, very light, almost hair-like indent in the cartridge rim. Clearly a problem beyond just ammo choices. I talked w/Browning service and it's being shipped back today.

DJ Niner
03-03-2010, 01:23
I'm sorry to hear that you had to send it back, but you made the right choice. Browning's service department has a good rep as far as I remember (kinda rare for anyone to need to use them, in my experience), they'll fix'er up and ship it back. Hope the turnaround is quick; let us know how long it takes, okay?

KB_TX
03-03-2010, 08:37
Be sure to check the set screw (allen or slotted) on the front of the frame that holds the barrel on. The slotted set screw on my Buck Mark shot loose and that allowed a little movement of the barrel causing light primer strikes. I like my Buck Mark, but you definitely have to check all of the screws after shooting and Lock-Tite them all.

Most everyone complains about the Ruger takedown, but very little to shoot loose...

A6Gator
03-03-2010, 10:42
Thanks for the insights. I'll let you know what kind of turnaround I get w/the service guys. I checked the tightness of the allen screw for the barrel. It was cinched down pretty good and was not loose when I sent it back. I was wondering on a separate point, did you guys notice any of the duracoat coating on the feedramp? I dropped a hint on my return notice to Browning, so we'll see what happens...

jimmygun
03-08-2010, 22:18
I also just got a Buckmark UDX stainless camper, I cleaned it before I took it out and put some lube in it, I used federal auto match I got 2 extra magazines. Out of the whole box I only had 2 Fail To Feed, no misfires, extracting or ejection problems. The two failures happened towards the end of my shooting session, I did notice that it got dirty really quick inside the chamber and the mag well that could have caused the problems plus is a brand new gun I have to break it in with at least 1500 rounds. Yours does sound like a different problem and the guys at Browning should take care of it. I am also going to try dry lube next time I clean it, so all the crap doesn't get stuck in the chamber, I have a Remington 597 and after doing the home made adjustments and changing the hammer and selecting the ammo, I discovered that the sucker loves to run dry, all my problems where fixed now it shoots like a dream.

A6Gator
03-09-2010, 08:12
We'll see when it gets back from Browning. I was brought up shooting 1911's, so while I'm trying to wean myself from the "if it's not dripping, there's not enough oil on it...", my experience tells me that a lot of guns will run wet & dirty, but not dry & dirty.

Thinking about the Buckmark, I think mine must have some kind of extractor issue. Either too stiff/tight or something that prevents the slide from seating all the way. I also think that the duracoating on the feed ramp doesn't contribute to reliable feeding either...

glockfan5
03-09-2010, 12:46
I was having similar troubles with my Buckmark. I read alot online and found out that I wasn't supposed to be field stripping it to clean it. I placed an order with Browning for a new recoil rod, spring, bushing, and little tiny clip that holds the spring onto the rod. Once I replaced those parts, it runs great again. Occasional FTF but that's just the nature of .22.

deadite
03-09-2010, 15:20
My BM has to have at least 50 rounds through it before it acts right. And ensure plenty of lube.

Just wanted to quote that. :whistling:

deadite

sharpshooter
03-09-2010, 21:49
The problem is likely the recoil rod/spring or the firing pin. Just replace all of it.

Replace the highlighted parts below. Order direct from Browning. Total cost is $20.50 ($12.50 for parts plus $8 shipping).

Add $5 if you want the un-highlighted extractor parts in the pic for a total of $25.50 shipped.

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/eeac136b.jpg

A6Gator
03-10-2010, 08:57
I agree it's probably an extractor/firing pin problem, I'm having a bit of a problem w/buying a handgun (or anything else, for that matter) and then having to rebuild it to make it work. If Browning can't build a handgun that works, maybe they should just sell them as kits. I haven't had a single burp w/my BHP from the mid 70's and that's after dragging it around the planet for years.

I don't know if Browning has QA problems or not, but I'll give them a chance to make it right. Harley-Davidson didn't think they had QA problems before AMF bought them either...:supergrin:

Where did you find the exploded view of the Buckmark?

sharpshooter
03-10-2010, 13:40
Browning's web site. Download the catolog it has a parts and price list. I just ordered those parts myself for a well worn pistol that's been having FTf and light strike issues after 25,000 plus rounds.

Norske
03-10-2010, 15:27
Mine is a blue BM. I took the mag disconnector wire out of it as I absolutely despise MDs. The rest is stock.

Took 5th out of about 30 entries in the .22 Iron sight division at the recent State Championship Steel Challenge match.

Mine did not like the bulk pack Federal HPs at all. Constant FTFs and FTEs.

Would probably do 1 FTE in 200 with Remington Golden bulk pack HPs.

Has been, IIRCC, absolutely flawless over about 700 rounds of CCI RN Mini-Mags. Not cheap; about $9/100 around here.

I use the latter for matches and practice and plink with the cheap ($18/550) Remmies.

H&K 4 LIFE
03-12-2010, 09:34
I have a Buckmark Camper that I have owned for about 3 years. It's been shot a lot and recently I was having lots of failures to fully eject (stovepipe).

I figured out I was missing the C-clip on the end of the guide rod, and my spring was seriously out of shape.

I called Browning and ordered a new firing pin assembly (this came with the FP housing, guide rod, spring, c-clip etc... basically a drop in replacement unit minus the buffer).

The woman on the phone was very helpful in identifying what parts I needed. The parts were about $6.50 and total cost with shipping was something like $10. I also got it in the mail only two days later!

Thanks Browning! :)

A6Gator
03-17-2010, 10:16
Got it back from Browning yesterday. Range report this weekend.

DJ Niner
03-17-2010, 23:57
What's that, about a two-week turnaround? Pretty fast!

Here's hoping the problem is history. :thumbsup:

A6Gator
03-18-2010, 10:21
Yeah, in tracking it, they said it'd be returned by 26 Mar, so they got it back earlier. I tried to find out what they did with it, what they replaced/fixed, etc., but apparently it's a secret. I'll find out if it works on Saturday...guess I ought to head off for Wally World and pick up some more bulk before the price goes up again....:supergrin:

DJ Niner
03-18-2010, 23:13
Does the barrel's feed ramp look like they cleaned it up?

sharpshooter
03-19-2010, 00:58
I got my parts and installed them today. Even got the target trigger with the overtravel adjustment. Should run good as new! You should see the old tired recoil spring compared to the brand new one!

A6Gator
03-19-2010, 11:54
Does the barrel's feed ramp look like they cleaned it up?

Doesn't appeal to be polished. I should be able to get to the range tomorrow, so should be able to function check it thoroughly.

A6Gator
03-20-2010, 20:07
Spent the week on the road and was hustling to make it for second gun at Steel Challenge today. Got home, took the Buckmark out of the box from the factory, threw it in a range bag w/some mags and different ammo types and headed to the range. I wanted to run through a bunch of magazines w/out a problem before I started shooting competitively. First set of 6 mags ran fine. Started to get a smile on my face. (BTW, the Ultimate Cliploader is THE BOMB for Buckmark and Ruger mags). Second set I started to get one or two failures to fire. Third set is I ended up cycling through the chamber by hand. I was beyond pissed. The firing pin was just barely hitting the edge of a round.

I was getting ready to see how far a Buckmark could fly when I ran into a bud that had had the same problem of the firing pin just barely nicking the outside of the base of a rimfire round. He said he though the problem was loose sight mounting base screws. I told him that I'd just gotten it back from the factory and there was no way a Browning factory gunsmith would let the screws come back loose, but just for grins, let's see if they were loose. Sure enough, they were just barely hanging in there. I tightened them up (the front one, especially) and the gun ran like a top. No failures to fire, extract or anything. So, whatever they did at the factory with extractor and firing pin must have worked. I'm just a bit disappointed their QA didn't pick up the loose screws. Ran through 5 steel stages and it didn't miss a beat. So after a bit of goofing around, I got it running right. Next step is putting an optic on it.

I guess the takeaway for me on this one is, even though the factory worked on it, I should've taken the time to check the things I can check. I figure I'll give it a thorough cleaning and when I put it back together, a bit of blue Loctite is in order for the sight mounting base screws...:supergrin:

Jeff82
03-20-2010, 20:23
They don't like to be "thorough(ly) clean(ed)".

DJ Niner
03-20-2010, 21:10
Spent the week on the road and was hustling to make it for second gun at Steel Challenge today. Got home, took the Buckmark out of the box from the factory, threw it in a range bag w/some mags and different ammo types and headed to the range. I wanted to run through a bunch of magazines w/out a problem before I started shooting competitively. First set of 6 mags ran fine. Started to get a smile on my face. (BTW, the Ultimate Cliploader is THE BOMB for Buckmark and Ruger mags). Second set I started to get one or two failures to fire. Third set is I ended up cycling through the chamber by hand. I was beyond pissed. The firing pin was just barely hitting the edge of a round.

I was getting ready to see how far a Buckmark could fly when I ran into a bud that had had the same problem of the firing pin just barely nicking the outside of the base of a rimfire round. He said he though the problem was loose sight mounting base screws. I told him that I'd just gotten it back from the factory and there was no way a Browning factory gunsmith would let the screws come back loose, but just for grins, let's see if they were loose. Sure enough, they were just barely hanging in there. I tightened them up (the front one, especially) and the gun ran like a top. No failures to fire, extract or anything. So, whatever they did at the factory with extractor and firing pin must have worked. I'm just a bit disappointed their QA didn't pick up the loose screws. Ran through 5 steel stages and it didn't miss a beat. So after a bit of goofing around, I got it running right. Next step is putting an optic on it.

I guess the takeaway for me on this one is, even though the factory worked on it, I should've taken the time to check the things I can check. I figure I'll give it a thorough cleaning and when I put it back together, a bit of blue Loctite is in order for the sight mounting base screws...:supergrin:An interesting explanation of the problem, which I'll keep in mind in case I ever hear of someone else suffering from similar difficulties. Every now and then, gun folks run into a "How could THIS possibly cause THAT...", and when it happens, making a note of it is occasionally helpful. Thanks for sharing!

A6Gator
03-21-2010, 06:37
Yeah, I was just a bit surprised it wasn't really ready to run right out of the box, especially since it just came from the factory. Anyway, it works good now. Next case is optics install. Shot my bud's Buckmark w/a reflex on it yesterday. Sure does seem that putting a dot on it takes a lot of thought out of shooting fast, assuming you can find the dot....:rofl:

GSSF17
03-21-2010, 09:50
Very interesting and thanks for sharing. I would have never thought that....:dunno:

Glad you got it worked out. Enjoy!

cysoto
03-21-2010, 12:38
I figure I'll give it a thorough cleaning and when I put it back together, a bit of blue Loctite is in order for the sight mounting base screws...:supergrin:
Remember that you will need to remove those screws at some point if you want to remove the bolt (for a detail strip). I ended up using silicone tape instead and it holds quite well (and no need to heat the screws to remove them).

A6Gator
03-21-2010, 22:20
Never thought about the silicone tape. That's why I figured blue Loctite instead of red. I'm into easy.