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Quack
02-27-2010, 16:30
we to the range today with some friends.
i went to finally shoot my XDm and M&P9 Pro.
don't worry, i had too my Wilson, Brown & STI with me as well.

my one friend just got a mil-spec, so he was breaking it in.
i loaded up a few mags for my other friend to shoot my Brown.
his first shot was a bullseye @ 7yards, which is pretty good because he would be lucky to do that with any of the other guns. the rest of the mag and the 2nd mag were about an inch.

i then loaded 2 mags, moved the target out to 15yards and handed him the Wilson Longslide. his 2 mag group was ~2". now he's really liking the 1911's.

he also shot the STI pretty well too. now he's pretty set on getting a 1911 :supergrin:.

as for the polymer's it seemed that between the Glock, XDm (w/ Springer trigger kit) and M&P9 Pro (w/ apex sear), the favorite was the M&P, followed by the Glock (though after shooting the 1911's it naturally pointed high) and the least favorite of the 3 was the XDm.

the favorite of the day were the 1911's ;)

Officer's Match
02-27-2010, 16:33
Funny how some say the 1911 is outdated, even obsolete. Seems the new breed of polymer framed pistols are better in every way. Except actually shooting them. :wavey:

Quack
02-27-2010, 16:39
he's looking at getting a commander size for carry, but was worried about the whole C&L'd thing, then we showed him how it's safer compared to the polymers.

yep, new technology doesn't always mean better. JMB knew what he was doing. Glock know's cabinet knobs :whistling:

Jason D
02-27-2010, 16:57
I wonder how the Glock will fare when it's 100 years old, or any other fantastic plastic for that matter. There is a reason the venerable 1911s are still made.

Disregarded9-side
02-27-2010, 17:10
The Glock pistol will still be around in some form or another (laser or not) in 100 years because the aggressive grip angle and the low bore axis make it easy to instinctively point and shoot.
And the triple-safe-at-the-ready action.
And the frame.

Officer's Match
02-27-2010, 17:23
I wonder how the Glock will fare when it's 100 years old, or any other fantastic plastic for that matter. There is a reason the venerable 1911s are still made.

A reason that is amply demonstrated by shooting a good one.

hatidua
02-27-2010, 17:27
I've never been an apostle: don't like it, don't shoot it. -Not my problem.

Officer's Match
02-27-2010, 17:41
I've never been an apostle: don't like it, don't shoot it. -Not my problem.

No? But the 1911 forum interests you? :dunno:

Jason D
02-27-2010, 18:21
The Glock pistol will still be around in some form or another (laser or not) in 100 years because the aggressive grip angle and the low bore axis make it easy to instinctively point and shoot.
And the triple-safe-at-the-ready action.
And the frame.

I would like to see a 100 year old Glock specimen being fired.
Barring the company going out of business, I can see there being the brand still around. I would like to know how the polymer frame will fare.

josp
02-27-2010, 18:52
when asked by younger guys about why I pack the heavy old gun, I ask if they want to shoot against it for beer money. So far, I've been drinking for free.:tongueout:

Brucev
02-27-2010, 19:07
I like the 1911. I've been shooting and enjoying one or more of them for 30 years. Currently I have a SA Mil-Spec in (surprise!) .45 ACP that is a pleasure to own and shoot. I am very pleased with it. I also have a G-22 with which I am very well pleased. It is light, accurate, powerful and supremely reliable. It goes with me in the car when I am on a road trip and at home occupies the nightstand in the bedroom. Either pistol would be fine for just about any use to which one might put a handgun. 100 years from now may God bless America to be free with our Constitutional rights intact. May God bless America to be a country where we will be able to buy all the 1911's and Glock's and other handguns we might want.

gconan
02-27-2010, 19:18
It seems everyone, and I do mean everyone shoots better with the John Moses Browning design.:thumbsup:

glock2740
02-27-2010, 19:39
we to the range today with some friends.
i went to finally shoot my XDm and M&P9 Pro.






as for the polymer's it seemed that between the Glock, XDm (w/ Springer trigger kit) and M&P9 Pro (w/ apex sear), the favorite was the M&P, followed by the Glock (though after shooting the 1911's it naturally pointed high) and the least favorite of the 3 was the XDm.

the favorite of the day were the 1911's ;)
I have the XDm9 and the M&P Pro9 too. The M&P Pro has by a long shot, the better trigger between the two. The XDm9 trigger is very mushy, but it is a shooter. I'm seriously considering a trigger job on it. Neither has near the trigger of my Kimber Target II in 9mm, but the M&P Pro9 comes in a very close second. That gun has a great trigger for a poly framed combat pistol. Love'em all:supergrin:

Officer's Match
02-27-2010, 19:44
It seems everyone, and I do mean everyone shoots better with the John Moses Browning design.:thumbsup:

Possible exception being the P7 HK.

Quack
02-27-2010, 20:03
I have the XDm9 and the M&P Pro9 too. The M&P Pro has by a long shot, the better trigger between the two. The XDm9 trigger is very mushy, but it is a shooter. I'm seriously considering a trigger job on it. Neither has near the trigger of my Kimber Target II in 9mm, but the M&P Pro9 comes in a very close second. That gun has a great trigger for a poly framed combat pistol. Love'em all:supergrin:

even with the Springer Precision trigger kit in, the XDm still feels mushy.

The Apex sear in the M&P gives it a shorter reset and the trigger pull is also lighter. now it's as short as the XDm w/ Springer

bac, i'll trade you the XDm for a 1911 :supergrin:

SIGShooter
02-27-2010, 20:27
Possible exception being the P7 HK.


I fully agree with you on this!

I have my Glocks, I have my Sigs, I have my 1911s and I have my M8.

I like the 1911 and the M8 out of all of them. The Sigs come in a close second.

As for the Glocks being around in a 100 years...I remember back a few years ago reading an article about a Glock from 1988 (IIRC) that had to go back to Glock to have the lower replaced. It had something to do with the polymer degrading over the years because of sun, weather and natural elements.

bac1023
02-27-2010, 20:46
I wonder how the Glock will fare when it's 100 years old, or any other fantastic plastic for that matter. There is a reason the venerable 1911s are still made.

Very true. :)

CMG
02-27-2010, 22:29
I fully agree with you on this!

I have my Glocks, I have my Sigs, I have my 1911s and I have my M8.

I like the 1911 and the M8 out of all of them. The Sigs come in a close second.

As for the Glocks being around in a 100 years...I remember back a few years ago reading an article about a Glock from 1988 (IIRC) that had to go back to Glock to have the lower replaced. It had something to do with the polymer degrading over the years because of sun, weather and natural elements.

I like and respect the 1911-pattern guns, but let's be real... In fact, let's leave a 1911 pattern gun, and a Glock out in the weather for just a month... then let's shoot them both until they stop. I know which one I'm betting to be the last pistol still firing. :whistling:

Respect for one design should not mandate disdain for all others, there are lots of kool-aid drinkers on both sides, but in the middle are those with sense and an open mind. :cool:

Officer's Match
02-27-2010, 23:27
I like and respect the 1911-pattern guns, but let's be real... In fact, let's leave a 1911 pattern gun, and a Glock out in the weather for just a month... then let's shoot them both until they stop. I know which one I'm betting to be the last pistol still firing. :whistling:

Respect for one design should not mandate disdain for all others, there are lots of kool-aid drinkers on both sides, but in the middle are those with sense and an open mind. :cool:

You make valid points. And certainly your point of extremes (frankly deliberate firearm abuse) holds water, but my perspective is I want the pistol that will allow me the highest degree of shooting performance given the level of firearm care that I will be providing.

bac1023
02-28-2010, 00:32
we to the range today with some friends.
i went to finally shoot my XDm and M&P9 Pro.
don't worry, i had too my Wilson, Brown & STI with me as well.

my one friend just got a mil-spec, so he was breaking it in.
i loaded up a few mags for my other friend to shoot my Brown.
his first shot was a bullseye @ 7yards, which is pretty good because he would be lucky to do that with any of the other guns. the rest of the mag and the 2nd mag were about an inch.

i then loaded 2 mags, moved the target out to 15yards and handed him the Wilson Longslide. his 2 mag group was ~2". now he's really liking the 1911's.

he also shot the STI pretty well too. now he's pretty set on getting a 1911 :supergrin:.

as for the polymer's it seemed that between the Glock, XDm (w/ Springer trigger kit) and M&P9 Pro (w/ apex sear), the favorite was the M&P, followed by the Glock (though after shooting the 1911's it naturally pointed high) and the least favorite of the 3 was the XDm.

the favorite of the day were the 1911's ;)

Yeah, the 1911s will always steal the show at the range. :)

CMG
02-28-2010, 10:12
You make valid points. And certainly your point of extremes (frankly deliberate firearm abuse) holds water, but my perspective is I want the pistol that will allow me the highest degree of shooting performance given the level of firearm care that I will be providing.

I have no argument against what a person wants... just find the smear campaigns by one group of design-fans against others patently silly. :dunno:

SIGShooter
02-28-2010, 10:18
I like and respect the 1911-pattern guns, but let's be real... In fact, let's leave a 1911 pattern gun, and a Glock out in the weather for just a month... then let's shoot them both until they stop. I know which one I'm betting to be the last pistol still firing. :whistling:

Respect for one design should not mandate disdain for all others, there are lots of kool-aid drinkers on both sides, but in the middle are those with sense and an open mind. :cool:


Ok.

You put up both guns and I'll put up a thousand rounds of ammunition.

You win, you get to keep what's left of the ammo. I win, I walk away laughing at you for leaving your guns out in the weather.

Why is it that the Glock fans will always say "Let's leave our guns out in the weather for a month and we'll see which one still works"? Tell me, how many of you shooters out there actually leave your guns sitting out in the "weather" for a month?

I know for a fact, that I have put weapons through more abuse than just leaving them out in the "Weather". I've been in all types of weather with many different firearms. Rain, snow, sleet, desert, ocean, rivers, etc...Never had a weapon fail me.

I love how everyone swears a Glock will work no matter what. I guess you missed the threads with all of the Glock failures.

Quack
02-28-2010, 10:46
In fact, let's leave a 1911 pattern gun, and a Glock out in the weather for just a month...


can you name once instance where this would be relevant outside of Glock sales pitch or fanboy talk?

how about throwing a glock and a 1911 in a fire for an hour and seeing which one works afterwards? :tongueout:

both the Glock and the 1911's have proven themselves in real world use.

CMG
02-28-2010, 11:09
Ok.

You put up both guns and I'll put up a thousand rounds of ammunition.

You win, you get to keep what's left of the ammo. I win, I walk away laughing at you for leaving your guns out in the weather.

Why is it that the Glock fans will always say "Let's leave our guns out in the weather for a month and we'll see which one still works"? Tell me, how many of you shooters out there actually leave your guns sitting out in the "weather" for a month?

I know for a fact, that I have put weapons through more abuse than just leaving them out in the "Weather". I've been in all types of weather with many different firearms. Rain, snow, sleet, desert, ocean, rivers, etc...Never had a weapon fail me.

I love how everyone swears a Glock will work no matter what. I guess you missed the threads with all of the Glock failures.


How soon can you be in Dallas? :supergrin:

Actually, I'm a fan of both designs, but perhaps you are are not. :whistling:

CMG
02-28-2010, 11:11
....

both the Glock and the 1911's have proven themselves in real world use.


And THAT was my point... different designs, yes, but both worthy of respect. They will react differently to different abuse, but properly cared for, and taking time to learn them, they will both serve.... bashing one in favor of the other, as I said from the outset... is silly!

I was answering a "the elements will deteriorate a Glock" assertion with one of my own... just as silly as the first.

I'll head out back with the PM9 and 34 while y'all un-bunch your panties.

SIGShooter
02-28-2010, 16:41
How soon can you be in Dallas? :supergrin:

Actually, I'm a fan of both designs, but perhaps you are are not. :whistling:


Funny you ask that, I'm in El Paso Texas on business right now. I also have a thousand rounds of ammunition in my luggage.

I currently own Glocks, Sig, 1911 and 1 H&K.

I have been carrying Glocks longer than any of them. I transition between them without care or concern.

I just find it funny that so many people are blinded by the "Perfection" of Glock. I lost that faith in them when I had a G26 break on me at the range. Not even an explanation by Glock as to why or what was broken. I had to make all the calls myself and get into pissing matches with tech weenies who they are gods.

You know what, I like the add on test...Let's get a bonfire going. We'll just keep adding to the ridiculous tests.

Quack
02-28-2010, 19:38
You know what, I like the add on test...Let's get a bonfire going. We'll just keep adding to the ridiculous tests.
:rofl::supergrin:

CMG
02-28-2010, 19:55
Funny you ask that, I'm in El Paso Texas on business right now. I also have a thousand rounds of ammunition in my luggage.

I currently own Glocks, Sig, 1911 and 1 H&K.

I have been carrying Glocks longer than any of them. I transition between them without care or concern.

I just find it funny that so many people are blinded by the "Perfection" of Glock. I lost that faith in them when I had a G26 break on me at the range. Not even an explanation by Glock as to why or what was broken. I had to make all the calls myself and get into pissing matches with tech weenies who they are gods.

You know what, I like the add on test...Let's get a bonfire going. We'll just keep adding to the ridiculous tests.

I think most have already been done here: :supergrin:

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90

I use both and also don't have any issues switching back and forth... I've never proclaimed either design as perfect, but I do find the kool-aid drinkers on both sides at time humorous, at others annoying.

See you in about 6 hours or so, eh? That should give me time to get today's dirty guns cleaned and stored. :supergrin:

SIGShooter
02-28-2010, 20:25
I think most have already been done here: :supergrin:

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90

I use both and also don't have any issues switching back and forth... I've never proclaimed either design as perfect, but I do find the kool-aid drinkers on both sides at time humorous, at others annoying.

See you in about 6 hours or so, eh? That should give me time to get today's dirty guns cleaned and stored. :supergrin:


Yeah, that's a 20+ hour round trip for me.

How about Big Lake TX. That's about half way for both of us. Maybe even San Angelo TX.

I am definitely not a kool-aid drinker. I know each platform has their own pro's and con's. Each is better than the other in their own arena.

As for your reference to Glock Torture test: If you watched any of the guy's movies, you will see the many different malfunctions he had with his G21. This, again, proves that anyone can torture their guns until they fail. Because one failure is in fact a failure.

SIGShooter
02-28-2010, 20:26
:rofl::supergrin:


I would dedicate it to you!

Quack
02-28-2010, 20:27
I think most have already been done here: :supergrin:

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90


but no fire test.

hmm i wonder if that's why the 1911 is considered the BBQ gun and the Glock isn't? :rofl:

CMG
02-28-2010, 21:37
Yeah, that's a 20+ hour round trip for me.

How about Big Lake TX. That's about half way for both of us. Maybe even San Angelo TX.

I am definitely not a kool-aid drinker. I know each platform has their own pro's and con's. Each is better than the other in their own arena.

As for your reference to Glock Torture test: If you watched any of the guy's movies, you will see the many different malfunctions he had with his G21. This, again, proves that anyone can torture their guns until they fail. Because one failure is in fact a failure.

I did NOT say, and I was NOT implying, the gun ran without issue, just that he'd already done many, many different types of torture tests.

I'm slow, but I'm finally beginning to see that you think I am a "Glock is Best" kind of guy... not so... but neither am I a "1911 is best" kind of guy.

I own, shoot, and like many types of hand-guns... and find some better than others in one way, others better than some in different ways.

Absolutes are best left to the material-science PHDs, IMO.

I usually try to keep out of the ford-vs-chevy debates, will try harder in the future. Y'all have a good night.

SIGShooter
03-01-2010, 07:23
I did NOT say, and I was NOT implying, the gun ran without issue, just that he'd already done many, many different types of torture tests.

I'm slow, but I'm finally beginning to see that you think I am a "Glock is Best" kind of guy... not so... but neither am I a "1911 is best" kind of guy.

I own, shoot, and like many types of hand-guns... and find some better than others in one way, others better than some in different ways.

Absolutes are best left to the material-science PHDs, IMO.

I usually try to keep out of the ford-vs-chevy debates, will try harder in the future. Y'all have a good night.


That was kinda the point I was getting at about the whole torture test thing you had brought up.

So we are clear, I knew what you were saying. I was just trying to point out that every platform has its own merits.

There are some things that I will use a Glock for and not a 1911, then again there are some things that I will use a Sig for and not a Glock.

I'm glad that you see it my way and finally admit defeat.
:tongueout::wavey:

SIGShooter
03-01-2010, 07:25
but no fire test.

hmm i wonder if that's why the 1911 is considered the BBQ gun and the Glock isn't? :rofl:


Supposedly the Glock polymer is a high temp style polymer...:whistling:

IIRC, the new "Polymoids" that Glock designed were supposed to deflect cosmic UV rays of phototorpedeo like quality radiation and make the Glock...

Okay, plastic will melt near fire!:supergrin:

CMG
03-01-2010, 09:55
That was kinda the point I was getting at about the whole torture test thing you had brought up.

So we are clear, I knew what you were saying. I was just trying to point out that every platform has its own merits.

There are some things that I will use a Glock for and not a 1911, then again there are some things that I will use a Sig for and not a Glock.

I'm glad that you see it my way and finally admit defeat.
:tongueout::wavey:

:faint:

:supergrin: