Stainless Steel/Aluminum Follower or "NO"? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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SIGShooter
03-06-2010, 11:29
I did a search and only turned up 4 threads on the subject. They really didn't answer any of my questions.

Here's what I've got:

Wilson Border Patrol 12 Ga.
6+1
870 Express
(And no, I didn't spend thousands of dollars on it. I got it when they were still in the 800 dollar range. Awesome shotgun!)

I am doing a couple of upgrades to it right now.

So far:

Remington 870 Police Trigger Assembly group (Got a thread about that too)
Speed Feed "Short LOP" stock
TacStart Side Saddle
Upgrading to Wolff Tube Springs

What I would like are some Pros and Cons of the metal style followers vs. the synthetic followers.

Currently I have the Wilson style synthetic follower. I haven't had any problems with it. However, if a metal follower is a better upgrade, I would like to start using them.

Pros to Steel/Cons to Steel

Pros to Aluminum/Cons to Aluminum

Pros to Synthetic/Cons to Synthetic

I appreciate the help!

aippi
03-06-2010, 13:53
No to the stainless steel follower. This is right out of the mouth of the senior Instuctor at the Law Enfocement Armorers Training Center at the Remington Factory in Illion.

Here is why. Reach into the mouth of the mag tube on your 870. You will feel a slight lip. that lip is the follower stop and as you can feel it is very thin. A stainless steel follower is a harder metal then that lip and over the years of that follower banging into that lip it will damage it. Of course not in the first couple of years that you own the 870 but if the weapon gets heavy use the damage will happend sooner then you think.

Yes, to polymer like the Wilson or to some of the aluminum ones.

Now for all you guys that are going to post that you have been using a stainless steel followers for years and there is no damage and this post is wrong, please call the Law Enforcement Training Center at the factory and tell them to stop giving out wrong information to their Law Enforcement Armorers 'cause you know more then those Instructors who have only been there for 30+ years.

SIGShooter
03-06-2010, 14:14
Thank you very much sir!

I read a couple of your posts during my search. I just wanted to get more information.

I noticed that Remington is now doing upgrades to their line of 870/1100/11-87 in regards to upgrading to Aluminum followers.

I went ahead and ordered the anodized aluminum follower from Brownells.

Any thoughts on the upgrade to the Police model Trigger assembly? I've got my other thread on that as well.

Thank you!

aippi
03-06-2010, 15:08
I use the polymer trigger plate assembly on all my 5 personal 870's as it is more durable then the cast metal. On the "Build your Weapon" link of my web site there is a video of a drop test conducted by Ruger that proves this.

all the parts in the Polymer trigger plate assembly that comes on the 870 Express are the exact, yes exact as in the same as in not different then the ones that come in Police or Wingmaster trigger plate assembly, except one $3.40 spring.

So to pay over $90 for a Police trigger plate assembly is a total waste of money and serves no purpouse in the performance of your 870.

You are researching inter-net threads so look at the qualification of the person giving the advise before you start putting your money out. I was trained at the factory in Illion and I only answer based on that training and what is in the Remington Law Enfocement Armorers manual. If you can find better information then that, take it.

SIGShooter
03-06-2010, 16:06
^^^Awesome, thank you!

nascardu
03-07-2010, 13:16
Anyone have problems with their vang comp followers or vang comp shotguns?

MAX100
03-07-2010, 15:15
I don't believe that a steel follower will cause damage to a mag tube steel lip. The reason is, there isn't enough force to cause any damage. With the last shell in the mag tube the follower is only about 2.5" from the lip and most of the force is lost pushing the last shell out. So it doesn't hit the lip with any force.

If the spring and steel follower got hung up in a empty mag tube and it was free and slammed into the lip that could possibly damage the lip. This wouldn't likely happen.

I guess you could run into a few shotguns that the lip wasn't properly heated treated. In that case damage could occur over time.

The Vang stainless follower is excellent and they know few things about 870 shotguns.

GC

aippi
03-07-2010, 15:33
I choose to listen to the experts. I paid for that training and went right to where these weapons are being built and to then not to benifit from their expert knowledge would be follish of me. So, no stainless steel followers in any of my custom builds. If a client wants one he can add it when he gets the weapon.

MAX100
03-07-2010, 16:02
I choose to listen to the experts. I paid for that training and went right to where these weapons are being built and to then not to benefit from their expert knowledge would be foolish of me. So, no stainless steel followers in any of my custom builds. If a client wants one he can add it when he gets the weapon.

The facts don't support them.

Sometimes the experts are wrong or have been misguided. Sometimes you have think for yourself, listen and go by your own experience. I have some experience with shotgun mag tubes and I have never seen or heard of any damage ever being caused by a steel follower. I have used them in several of my shotguns for going 7 years now. Steel followers have been used for many years and if it was common, threads on the subject would have already been posted on the forums.

The Vang stainless follower is a very heavy duty follower. If it was causing damage to shotgun mag tubes it would have been pulled long ago.

At one time the experts thought the Earth was flat.


GC

WiskyT
03-07-2010, 19:08
I don't know if it's an issue or not. I do know that few things are harder than anodized aluminum. If hardness is an issue, anodized aluminum would be just as bad, if not worse, than stainless.

What I don't understand is how is it an upgrade to replace a known follower that works? Will the new one somehow work better? Replacing things that work with things that are unknown doesn't qualify as an upgrade in my book.

SIGShooter
03-07-2010, 19:25
I don't know if it's an issue or not. I do know that few things are harder than anodized aluminum. If hardness is an issue, anodized aluminum would be just as bad, if not worse, than stainless.

What I don't understand is how is it an upgrade to replace a known follower that works? Will the new one somehow work better? Replacing things that work with things that are unknown doesn't qualify as an upgrade in my book.


Well, as I said before, the synthetic follower isn't an issue. I consider it an upgrade if it performs better for me and my platform that I am using it in.

If I can get a longer life out of a metal follower with the same reliability, then that's what I'll go with.

For me, it's more of a longevity thing. I can tell you this…I've had my shotgun for 5 years now, not many rounds down range, 300+, but I have noticed that my follower is chewed up and needs to be replaced. If I can get double that time or even triple that time, I consider that an upgrade.

YMMV with your equipment.

SIGShooter
03-08-2010, 10:27
I just got off the phone with Remington.

Couple questions I asked:

870 Police Trigger Assembly: Cast aluminum, current upgrade part for most 870 series shotguns, current part for ALL 870 Police model shotguns, recommended by remington for a more solid trigger assembly and longer life.

Aluminum Follower: Current upgrade part for all remington shotguns and the future part for all followers. There are no negative side affects from using aluminum followers due to the fact that there isn't enough force hitting the (I can't remember the proper name) follower stop lip. There is no extra care needed when compared to the polymer (Synthetic) followers. Definitely longer life out of these followers and the possibility of them breaking are next to none unlike the polymer followers.

I did not ask about the steel followers as I went with the aluminum one instead.

The original trigger plate for the 870 Police was a parkerized carbon steel assembly. Remington went to the cast aluminum a while back. After I got off the phone I got a call back from the same Tech person I was talking to and she gave me that last bit of information.

Very nice person to talk to, made sure she hit all the points of our discussion and even gave me a call back to reconfirm the information she gave me and asked if I had any further questions.

Just thought I'd share the good CS experience I had with Remington.

aippi
03-08-2010, 12:22
Gongrads on getting a decent rep to talk to. I call in about 80K in parts orders a year and can't get a decent answer from most of them. If I can't get my LEO rep on the phone I don't even try to ask a question. Sounds like the customer service is improving.

David Armstrong
03-08-2010, 12:54
I have some experience with shotgun mag tubes and I have never seen or heard of any damage ever being caused by a steel follower.
I'm not sure I understand the reasoning here. Do you think the folks at Remington have less experience with their shotgun mag tubes, or that they just made something up out of thin air and decided to tell everybody it was a problem?
At one time the experts thought the Earth was flat.
Umm, no. The experts knew the Earth was round. It was the folks who had limited experience/understanding, and who thought they knew better than the experts, who thought the Earth was flat.

MAX100
03-08-2010, 13:04
I just got off the phone with Remington.

Aluminum Follower: Current upgrade part for all remington shotguns and the future part for all followers. There are no negative side affects from using aluminum followers due to the fact that there isn't enough force hitting the (I can't remember the proper name) follower stop lip. There is no extra care needed when compared to the polymer (Synthetic) followers. Definitely longer life out of these followers and the possibility of them breaking are next to none unlike the polymer followers..

It would be the same when using a steel follower as well, not enough force hitting the lip.

Most manufactures don't put aluminum or steel followers in their shotguns because they cost more and they can save a few bucks per gun.

Mossberg puts a high quality heavy duty steel follower in the 930 SPX.


GC

BHP9
03-09-2010, 07:31
No to the stainless steel follower. This is right out of the mouth of the senior Instuctor at the Law Enfocement Armorers Training Center at the Remington Factory in Illion.

Here is why. Reach into the mouth of the mag tube on your 870. You will feel a slight lip. that lip is the follower stop and as you can feel it is very thin. A stainless steel follower is a harder metal then that lip and over the years of that follower banging into that lip it will damage it. Of course not in the first couple of years that you own the 870 but if the weapon gets heavy use the damage will happend sooner then you think.

Yes, to polymer like the Wilson or to some of the aluminum ones.

Now for all you guys that are going to post that you have been using a stainless steel followers for years and there is no damage and this post is wrong, please call the Law Enforcement Training Center at the factory and tell them to stop giving out wrong information to their Law Enforcement Armorers 'cause you know more then those Instructors who have only been there for 30+ years.

I can't comment on damage to the internal lip in the tube, but I will agree on the solid plastic followers.

Vang or Wilson are the way to go. I only use lime green - it seems to be the "best" color for checking an unloaded mag tube.

They are more slippery than the metal ones and less prone to jamming.

FWIW Choate makes a follower that I used to use but for the last 10 years I've seen problems with them.

SIGShooter
03-09-2010, 12:05
It would be the same when using a steel follower as well, not enough force hitting the lip.

Most manufactures don't put aluminum or steel followers in their shotguns because they cost more and they can save a few bucks per gun.

Mossberg puts a high quality heavy duty steel follower in the 930 SPX.


GC


Remington is now going with aluminum followers in all their shotguns.

Currently it is available as an upgrade to the current followers with an XP magazine tube spring. I believe Wolff is the manufacturer of the springs. I forget who is manufacturing the followers though.

I was thinking of going with the steel, but I figured the lighter weight aluminum would mimic the weight of the synthetic followers better.

SIGShooter
03-09-2010, 12:08
I can't comment on damage to the internal lip in the tube, but I will agree on the solid plastic followers.

Vang or Wilson are the way to go. I only use lime green - it seems to be the "best" color for checking an unloaded mag tube.

They are more slippery than the metal ones and less prone to jamming.

FWIW Choate makes a follower that I used to use but for the last 10 years I've seen problems with them.


I currently have the Wilson follower (Lime Green) in my shotgun.

I have not had any problems with it in regards to reliability. However, I have noticed that the follower gets chewed up pretty quick.

YMMV with certain followers you may use. I figured using a metal follower would be a better option and more cost effective over the years. I plan on shooting more shotgun than what I have been.

MAX100
03-09-2010, 13:36
David Armstrong: I'm not sure I understand the reasoning here. Do you think the folks at Remington have less experience with their shotgun mag tubes, or that they just made something up out of thin air and decided to tell everybody it was a problem?

If Remington believes that a steel follower will damage the mag tube on their 870 it would give a warning in the manual that it will void the warranty.

I have explained why a steel follower won't damage the steel lip on a mag tube.

Please explain how you think that a steel follower can cause damage. Have you ever seen a mag tube that was damaged by a steel follower?


GC

David Armstrong
03-10-2010, 12:41
If Remington believes that a steel follower will damage the mag tube on their 870 it would give a warning in the manual that it will void the warranty.
You know, I bet Remington believes that taking a hammer and beating the frame on my 870 until it bent would damage the the frame. But I don't see anything in the manual about that. As an armorer I assure you there are plenty of things the factory recommends avoiding that they do not mention in the manual.
I have explained why a steel follower won't damage the steel lip on a mag tube.
And I have explained that the folks who are most in the know, the folks who build the gun and have probably seen far more of them than anyone else, disagree with you. your argument seems to be "I know more about the gun than the folks who build it and have worked on it the most." I don't buy into that argument, sorry.

MAX100
03-10-2010, 13:52
You know, I bet Remington believes that taking a hammer and beating the frame on my 870 until it bent would damage the the frame. But I don't see anything in the manual about that. As an armorer I assure you there are plenty of things the factory recommends avoiding that they do not mention in the manual.

Come on! Great example, you can do better than that. So being an Armorer yourself you haven't heard of or seen any 870s that were damaged by a steel follower either? Otherwise you would have already mentioned it.


And I have explained that the folks who are most in the know, the folks who build the gun and have probably seen far more of them than anyone else, disagree with you. your argument seems to be "I know more about the gun than the folks who build it and have worked on it the most." I don't buy into that argument, sorry.

You still haven't explained how a steel follower can cause damage. Please give an example. Surely when you were taught in Armorer school that a steel follower can cause damage your instructor explained how.

I don't claim to be an expert but I do have a lot of experience with the workings of shotgun mag tubes and I have good common sense.

Hans J. Vang of Vang Comp does have more experience & shills than any Armorer or Armorer instructor and they designed and sell a very high quality heavy steel follower for the 870 shotgun.

Some aluminum followers weight more than steel followers.

Example: Nordic Components "Aluminum" follower 8.5 grams, Brownells brand stainless steel follower 7.5 grams, Anodized aluminum surface is very hard. We talking followers that weight grams. A dollar bill weights one gram.

The Tech at Remington stated this below:



I just got off the phone with Remington.

Aluminum Follower: Current upgrade part for all Remington shotguns and the future part for all followers. There are no negative side affects from using aluminum followers due to the fact that there isn't enough force hitting the (I can't remember the proper name) follower stop lip. There is no extra care needed when compared to the polymer (Synthetic) followers. Definitely longer life out of these followers and the possibility of them breaking are next to none unlike the polymer followers..


GC

aippi
03-10-2010, 14:15
Max, you talked to a cubical clown in North Caroling who entered your question on a computer and came up with something on Aluminum followers. They did not tell you it would be same with stainless steel followers, you added that, and if the cubical clown did tell you that then he or she does not know what they are talking about. Probely the same one told me that the X-Pro trigger comes on the 870 Police. One more time for the guys who did not read my post. This is what we are taught about stainless steel followers not aluminum and the guys teaching it are the ones who know more about this weapon then I do or your do. And yes I have seen wear in the mag tubes. And yes, I believe the Instructors up there before I believe any of you. I go back for recertification in April and the same thing will be covered in the course.

I shared with the guys on this post the information I got from the horses mouth so "he who has ears, let him hear". I would love to see some of you guys sitting in class arguing this with Lyle who has been there 36 years. He would chew you guys up.

MAX100
03-10-2010, 16:01
Max, you talked to a cubical clown in North Caroling who entered your question on a computer and came up with something on Aluminum followers.

Go back and read SigShooter posted that info after he talked to a Remington Tech. I have no reason to call Remington.

I would love to see some of you guys sitting in class arguing this with Lyle who has been there 36 years. He would chew you guys up.


I would have no problem asking him a question on how a steel follower can damage a shotgun mag tubes. That's what he is there for. When you go back why not find out some info then you will be more informed. You haven't provided any info as of yet to support your claims.

I have posted all I have to say on the subject unless someone can come up with any new info showing how a steel follower can damage a mag tube.


GC

SIGShooter
03-10-2010, 16:36
Alright everyone…Lets hug and make up!

Just so we are all clear…

I only asked about the aluminum follower and not the steel follower. Only because I ended up going with the aluminum follower because that is what Remington is/will be using for all their shotguns.

Lets not start any wars here about followers and the such. It's good to know that there are many different smiths here that know the guns. Me, I'm not a smith and do not know the guns like you all do. One of the reasons why I ask questions here in regards to upgrades and the such.

I appreciate all the information posted here.

Aippi, I watched that video on your website. I see where you are coming from. One point of contention I have, it was a Ruger drop test and not Remington. It may not make that big of a difference to most, but me, I've seen the poor quality that Ruger has put out as of late. Of course, that's all just my opinion.

MAX, I see where you are coming from in your posts. I will call Remington again and ask them about the steel followers. I can only hope that I get the same good CS that I got before and I get a knowledgeable again.

David, I get what you are saying in regards to some things not being mentioned in a manual. Would you be able to cite where/who told you about the steel followers causing damage? I already know where aippi got his information from.

Z71bill
03-10-2010, 16:38
I tried one of these Choate High Visibility Magazine Followers

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=497602

It was not just a POS but a whole turd -

As soon as it was installed it became stuck in the mag tube -

SIGShooter
03-10-2010, 16:42
I tried one of these Choate High Visibility Magazine Followers

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=497602

It was not just a POS but a whole turd -

As soon as it was installed it became stuck in the mag tube -


You know, when I was doing my research on new followers, I only found one (1) good review of the Choate followers. I must have read somewhere around 60+ reviews of all different types. Choate was by far the worst one I read about.

The Wilson one has worked great for me. The only problem I have seen with it, it gets chewed up pretty easy. I only have ~300 rounds down range with my shotgun. When I disassemble it for cleaning you can feel the nicks and burrs and gouges in it. I am OCD about cleaning my weapons. I just think that it has everything to do with the fact that it's synthetic.

Click2
03-10-2010, 16:57
I'm just going to relate from experience... I bought an 870 Express 12ga 6 or 7 years ago, I have gotten several since then. All came with the cheap orange plastic one and I had it stick when the magazine was empty. I couldn't put another shell into an empty tube without some force and monkeying around. I lost a few ducks last year because I couldn't reload fast enough. I bought the orange aluminum followers from Brownell's and swapped all 4 of them in my 870's. They are pretty slick, a vast improvement and no hangups!
Just FYI



Click2

MAX100
03-10-2010, 17:04
The best polymer follower that Choate makes is the one they make for the Mossberg shotguns.. It's universal and will fit all 12 Ga shotguns. The draw back with solid end followers is they lower capacity in most shotguns by one round.


GC

David Armstrong
03-10-2010, 18:33
Come on! Great example, you can do better than that.
Why would I want to do better. It effectively illustrates the problem with your statement. Not everything that is bad gets put into the owners manual.
So being an Armorer yourself you haven't heard of or seen any 870s that were damaged by a steel follower either? Otherwise you would have already mentioned it.
I'm not a Remington armorer. I am a Glock armorer, S&W armorer, and a few more. I tend to focus on handguns. I have regulalry seen people try to argue that it is OK to do something because the manual doesn't say not to. That is incorrect.
You still haven't explained how a steel follower can cause damage.
I don't know, and more importantly I don't need to know. The issue is very simple...those in the know, those with the most experience and training, have said it is a problem. Unless someone can come up with some reason for the folks who build the gun to be mistaken about the qualities of the gun, or those who have examined literally thousands of guns would lie about what was good and bad for them, I tend to suggest the factory folks know what they are doing. Apparently, in this case, it isn't even an issue of "it is not addressed by the factory at all." Instead, it is "the factory specifically recommends against this."
The Tech at Remington stated this below:
Which I have read a couple of times and fail to find anything about steel followers, so I'm failing to see what that has to do with them.

David Armstrong
03-10-2010, 18:39
David, I get what you are saying in regards to some things not being mentioned in a manual. Would you be able to cite where/who told you about the steel followers causing damage? I already know where aippi got his information from.
Again, since I was not clear (my bad!)...I'm not a Remington armorer. I am an armorer for a number of different companies handguns (and one rifle). My point was simply that just because it is not mentioned in the manual that does not mean it is OK. I do more Glocks these days than anything, and folks regularly want to argue with me because I won't make certain modifications the factory recommends against. Their argument, just like was posted here, goes "If it was bad they would have said so in the owners manual but they didn't so it is OK." That is not necessarily so. Lots of bad things are not in the manual that you learn should not be done during the armorers courses.

SIGShooter
03-10-2010, 18:46
Again, since I was not clear (my bad!)...I'm not a Remington armorer. I am an armorer for a number of different companies handguns (and one rifle). My point was simply that just because it is not mentioned in the manual that does not mean it is OK. I do more Glocks these days than anything, and folks regularly want to argue with me because I won't make certain modifications the factory recommends against. Their argument, just like was posted here, goes "If it was bad they would have said so in the owners manual but they didn't so it is OK." That is not necessarily so. Lots of bad things are not in the manual that you learn should not be done during the armorers courses.


Thank you. I understand completely. I appreciate you explaining.

MAX100
03-10-2010, 20:16
David Armstrong:
I don't know, and more importantly I don't need to know. I am a Glock armorer, S&W armorer, and a few more.

You should have mentioned that to begin with. This thread is about shotguns.


GC

BHP9
03-11-2010, 05:50
I tried one of these Choate High Visibility Magazine Followers

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=497602

It was not just a POS but a whole turd -

As soon as it was installed it became stuck in the mag tube -

That's the problem I was talking about.

I dicked around with the follower, sanding the end and flame smoothing it but it never worked right from the start.

No longer use or recommend the Choate followers.

David Armstrong
03-11-2010, 09:43
You should have mentioned that to begin with. This thread is about shotguns.
GC
No, the thread is about making modifications to firearms. The specific modification under discussion here is one for a shotgun, but the issue is one that is common for armorers of all weapons, and AFAIK many other manufactured products. I've seen it regularly with Glocks and other guns. When discussing modifications one somewhat regularly encounters attitudes similar to those presented here, that of "I know more about the gun than the folks who build it and who have worked on it the most" and "If they don't prohibit it in the owners manual it must be OK." This is common, not only in firearms, BTW. My point is that in most endeavors there is a good reason to follow the advice of the manufacturer when they say not to do something to a product. The Remington 870 is no different.

xm21
03-13-2010, 14:50
In Jerry Kuhnhausens Shop Manual it states that magazine stop shoulder flaring is almost always caused by steel followers slap peening the stop shoulders in heavily used magnums.

I use a Scattergun Tech lime plasic follower with extra power spring in my 870 Express.I used a round file to groove the sides of the follower to allow it to get past the dimples in the mag tube.The bright lime color and the dimple make this follower easy to confirm an empty magazine by sight and feel.

ccfps
03-14-2010, 11:42
I have attended the Remington Police Armors course on two occasions. No warning on steel followers.

FYI Remington sold 870's with steel followers until about the time Express guns became popular. I have about a half dozen in my parts bin that I have saved over the years.

As a note Remingtons plastic followers will crack and shatter binding up the gun. I have replaced more than a few.

At both of the Remington schools I attended, the instructor, Lyle Wheellock, showed us a solid aluminum followers that were in federal contract guns so agents couldn't put them in backwards.

aippi
03-14-2010, 16:54
CCPF - you must have missed it as it was about Stainless Steel followers not Aluminum. I don't know why Lyle would not cover it with your class as he certainly did in ours. Maybe you were not paying attention. He had use reach into the mag tube to feel the lip and then explained that stainless steel is harded then that that lip and would damage it. One more time - STAINLESS STEEL -

He would not have demonstrated that if it was not to make this point. I will be in Ilion next month for recertification and will mention that some guys attended the class and did not understand the point and maybe he can emphizise the point more clearly. I know he is still there as I asked Cheryl when I signed up for the April course.

MAX100
03-14-2010, 19:08
In Jerry Kuhnhausens Shop Manual it states that magazine stop shoulder flaring is almost always caused by steel followers slap peening the stop shoulders in heavily used magnums.

He seems to being saying that it's caused by a steel follower slapping the lip in an empty mag tube during "magnum" recoil with heavy use.

The force of the slap would be dependent on how weak the mag tube spring is. If you have an extra power spring, the less the recoil would be able to rebound it and cause slap. Very rarely do you fire a shotgun with an empty mag tube.

You also have to look at the lower cost shells with steel bases. It seems to me they would do more damage to the stop lip than a light weight steel follower.

I will be in Ilion next month for recertification and will mention that some guys attended the class and did not understand the point and maybe he can emphasize the point more clearly. I know he is still there as I asked Cheryl when I signed up for the April course.


Let us know what he says.


GC

Another Miller
03-21-2010, 20:41
used wilson in mine, not had a problem yet as I replace them regularly, I bought 10 of them so when they start looking battered,I toss them and pop in a new one..Im also going to look into adding an alum follower.

The only thing choate on mine is the extension itself because its steel and not plastic,the springs are from an 870p,the follower wilson.

dakotasdad
03-22-2010, 19:21
I put a Vang stainless follower in my 870 Marine mag and it would bind consistently. I replaced it with a Wilson follower and haven't had any problems since.

SIGShooter
03-23-2010, 09:06
I put a Vang stainless follower in my 870 Marine mag and it would bind consistently. I replaced it with a Wilson follower and haven't had any problems since.


How did it bind? What caused it to bind in the mag tube?


I have just installed my new Aluminum Follower in my mag tube with a Wolff XP mag tube spring. This follower feeds and moves better than the polymer one I was using. There is a definite "fit" with this follower than the polymer. There is no way this can tilt or bind. I added a little bit of GLP to it and away I go. Hopefully the weather will be nice this week.

I was experimenting with a couple other things I have on hand. I got a Tacstar side saddle, I already had a Mesa side saddle, I got a speed feed short stock (Standard).

I installed everything except for the Tacstar side saddle. It's still in its package. That thing is horrible. The fit is totally off, too many steps to install and unistall (I know, you're all scratching your heads), it's huge compared to other side saddles.

I don't like side saddles. It took me a couple years to really figure that out, but I don't like them.

The short speed feed stock (Standard) is nice, but I would much prefer my thumb not being jabbed into my cheek bone. I know, I can just lay my thumb to the side, but to me, that isn't a proper firing grip. I'll stick with the speed feed pistol grip stock. Plus if I'm jonesing for a short stock, I'll just cut it down a bit and fit a new butt to it.

I like my shotgun a lot. I really like when it's kept simple. What I do need is a light. I believe in using them, no questions, especially in my home. I do not like the surefire forend. I've tried on another shotgun and don't like it. I would much prefer a mount that will affix to the barrel and a cord that can be affixed to the forend.

I saw a setup here on GT. I cannot find that thread anywhere. I even went online and found the particular mount but I cannot remember where I found it. Any help would be great.

BHP9
03-23-2010, 09:11
How did it bind? What caused it to bind in the mag tube?


I have just installed my new Aluminum Follower in my mag tube with a Wolff XP mag tube spring. This follower feeds and moves better than the polymer one I was using. There is a definite "fit" with this follower than the polymer. There is no way this can tilt or bind. I added a little bit of GLP to it and away I go. Hopefully the weather will be nice this week.

I was experimenting with a couple other things I have on hand. I got a Tacstar side saddle, I already had a Mesa side saddle, I got a speed feed short stock (Standard).

I installed everything except for the Tacstar side saddle. It's still in its package. That thing is horrible. The fit is totally off, too many steps to install and unistall (I know, you're all scratching your heads), it's huge compared to other side saddles.

I don't like side saddles. It took me a couple years to really figure that out, but I don't like them.

The short speed feed stock (Standard) is nice, but I would much prefer my thumb not being jabbed into my cheek bone. I know, I can just lay my thumb to the side, but to me, that isn't a proper firing grip. I'll stick with the speed feed pistol grip stock. Plus if I'm jonesing for a short stock, I'll just cut it down a bit and fit a new butt to it.

I like my shotgun a lot. I really like when it's kept simple. What I do need is a light. I believe in using them, no questions, especially in my home. I do not like the surefire forend. I've tried on another shotgun and don't like it. I would much prefer a mount that will affix to the barrel and a cord that can be affixed to the forend.

I saw a setup here on GT. I cannot find that thread anywhere. I even went online and found the particular mount but I cannot remember where I found it. Any help would be great.

If you are talking about CLP in the mag tube/on the follower, the mag tube is meant to be DRY. No oils to contaminate the ammo.

SIGShooter
03-23-2010, 16:21
If you are talking about CLP in the mag tube/on the follower, the mag tube is meant to be DRY. No oils to contaminate the ammo.


Sorry, CLP. A little mistype.

Right, I know the mag tube is supposed to be dry. It is, the follower has been lubed not the tube.

BHP9
03-23-2010, 16:31
Sorry, CLP. A little mistype.

Right, I know the mag tube is supposed to be dry. It is, the follower has been lubed not the tube.

And where does the oil from the follower go?

The MAG TUBE.

Run it dry.

Dry the mag tube using a Tampax tampon. Ultra large.

dakotasdad
03-23-2010, 18:20
[QUOTE=SIGShooter;14992536]How did it bind? What caused it to bind in the mag tube?

It would tilt just a hair so it would get hung up when the mag was completely empty. It would only do this when I was trying to load the first round. I don't know if the follower was a little out of spec or the mag tube entrance was.

But, like I said, I changed to a Wilson hi-vis follower and I haven't had any problems since.

SIGShooter
03-23-2010, 22:30
And where does the oil from the follower go?

The MAG TUBE.

Run it dry.

Dry the mag tube using a Tampax tampon. Ultra large.


Right, I've been doing it this way for 5 years. Never had a single issue.

I've had my tube loaded for the last 7 months, unfired, untouched. I broke the shotgun down to install the new follower...Guess what, dry tube.

I'll keep working with what I've got and what I know.

Thanks for the advice.

N/Apower
04-14-2010, 11:39
I run the Aluminum Brownells follower in my M4. Works great, very light, so cycling is more of a sure thing when shooting heavy loads, and it holds up well and isn't going to batter anything.

DHart
07-17-2010, 19:31
aippi... time has passed... do you have any update from the spring training?

Sounds like the consensus is that an aluminum or synthetic/polymer/delrin etc. follower is not likely to cause any damage to other parts of the shotgun.

Jury still out for some folks about steel?

aippi
07-17-2010, 22:11
Yes, nothing has changed. Stainless steel is still stainless steel and it is harder the the lip that stops the follower. It is still not recommended. But hey, some of these guys on this site no more then them silly Instructors who all have 40+ years building these weapons and servicing them. When they are not instuction they are the guys that are working on the P models sent in for repair.

Also, I did find in Jerry Kuhnhausen book where he talks about the damage a stainless steel follower does. But again, what does he know, he only wrote the "Book" on the Remington shotgun.

So all you guys that can't accpet the facts from the professionals who build these weapons and the guy who wrote the difinitive shop manual on these weapon, just keep using any ol' follower you want.

DHart
07-17-2010, 23:50
JD... what's the best follower in your opinion for an 870 WITHOUT extension?

What about for an 870 WITH extension? (I believe you recommend the Wilson extension, is that right?)

aippi
07-18-2010, 00:08
DHart - I just received some of the Derlin followers that the owner of GDM sent me. I will try them out but can't pass judgement till I put some rounds through the weapon. To me, most all the followers out there do what they are designed to do when new. It is after hundreds of rounds when they start showing wear that problems come up.

I am led to understand this Derlin material is pretty tuff so I am looking forward to trying these out.

Since I have all Wilson tubes on my personal weapons I of course use the follower that comes with that tube, the wilson follower.

I tried using the Wilson followers on my custom builds for those guys that wanted the Remington tube extension. I started seeing issues when the Wilson was being used in the Remington tube with the Remington spring. Not on every weapon, but on enough that I stopped using it on the Remington tube extension kits.

So, I am hoping the Derlin one is the answer. You can see them at www.gdmgear.com (http://www.gdmgear.com) and check out those barrel brackets with rails and the one for attaching a light. He sent me one of each to test also.

DHart
07-18-2010, 00:33
DHart - I just received some of the Derlin followers that the owner of GDM sent me. I will try them out but can't pass judgement till I put some rounds through the weapon. To me, most all the followers out there do what they are designed to do when new. It is after hundreds of rounds when they start showing wear that problems come up.

I am led to understand this Derlin material is pretty tuff so I am looking forward to trying these out.

Since I have all Wilson tubes on my personal weapons I of course use the follower that comes with that tube, the wilson follower.

I tried using the Wilson followers on my custom builds for those guys that wanted the Remington tube extension. I started seeing issues when the Wilson was being used in the Remington tube with the Remington spring. Not on every weapon, but on enough that I stopped using it on the Remington tube extension kits.

So, I am hoping the Derlin one is the answer. You can see them at www.gdmgear.com (http://www.gdmgear.com) and check out those barrel brackets with rails and the one for attaching a light. He sent me one of each to test also.

JD... you must be referring to Scott's cdmgear.com, right? The S&J delrin followers. I've heard that the Wilson followers were picky about what springs they were used with. And that the S&J (out of Canada) delrin followers are potentially very good. Scott's a good man with some great products... I'm working with him at present to photograph his products for his website. (I did the product photography for Kim Ahrends as well, for his website, http://www.ahrendsgripsusa.com)

Victoriagotagun
07-18-2010, 00:54
And that the S&J (out of Canada) delrin followers are potentially very good.

I'm currently running an S&J follower in one of my 590A1's and so far no problems. CDM ships out really fast too once ordered.

David Armstrong
07-18-2010, 10:38
Yes, nothing has changed. Stainless steel is still stainless steel and it is harder the the lip that stops the follower. It is still not recommended. But hey, some of these guys on this site no more then them silly Instructors who all have 40+ years building these weapons and servicing them. When they are not instuction they are the guys that are working on the P models sent in for repair.

Also, I did find in Jerry Kuhnhausen book where he talks about the damage a stainless steel follower does. But again, what does he know, he only wrote the "Book" on the Remington shotgun.

So all you guys that can't accpet the facts from the professionals who build these weapons and the guy who wrote the difinitive shop manual on these weapon, just keep using any ol' follower you want.
Come on now, J.D., just stop it. You know that this is the internet, where reading one rumour or opinion instantly makes one an expert on any topic, imbued with far more knowledge than any of the professionals in the field who actually have experience!:wow:

aippi
07-20-2010, 18:11
Sorry Dave, I just got caught up in the issue. Think I will get some of them Stainless steel followers and just replace my receivers when the follower stop rim gets FUBAR. This way I won't have to send it in the factory for a new mag tube.

However, the owner of GDM Gear just sent me some Derlin Combat followers to check out and I will run them in my weapons and see how well they work.

aeromarine
09-23-2010, 15:37
FWIW There was a time when ALL 870 Wingmasters came from the factory with Steel Shell Followers. I really liked the way they functioned (low drag) and I have scavenged several over the years to put in my newer 870s, 1100s and 11-87s. Remington stopped supplying them when they started cutting corners to reduce costs, and that's the absolute truth. So I think some of the lore now coming out of the company about "damage" caused by steel followers may be based more on propaganda than fact. However, I do agree that it is vitally important to frequently remove the mag spring and follower, scrub out the mag tube, then light lube it with Rem Oil or the like. I've made it a hobby to buy and restore used Remington shotguns and it never ceases to amaze me how fouled, rusty, and cruddy that area can be in an otherwise very clean gun.

I'd be curious to know if anyone has observed an galvanic corrosion from dissimilar metals (aluminum follwer v. steel mag tube) in any of there guns? I've been intrigued by the S&J Delrin followers and plan to give one a test drive soon.

However, think one of the real danger points people should be aware of is when using of Mag Extension Tubes. One can seem to work great. But once you take it off the gun during cleaning it may not work properly after it has been re installed. But the problem will not be realized until the next time the gun is used. (Often this is just a matter of the extension tube, not the coupling, be screwed on too tight). So my advice if you are LE is after you clean your shotgun and reassemble it, load it completely up and then (VERY CAREFULLY!) cycle all the rounds through the gun. That's the only way you will know whether it will feed when you need it to.

aippi
09-23-2010, 17:15
OK guys where are you on those? Lube the tube? Load the weapon then cycle all the rounds through it to unload it?

Are you waiting on me so I can catch the blunt of this? Let Mikey try it, he'll eat anything. NOT. So jump in and please be kind.

DHart
09-23-2010, 17:29
FWIW However, think one of the real danger points people should be aware of is when using of Mag Extension Tubes. One can seem to work great. But once you take it off the gun during cleaning it may not work properly after it has been re installed. But the problem will not be realized until the next time the gun is used. (Often this is just a matter of the extension tube, not the coupling, be screwed on too tight).

I know a lot of folks use extensions quite reliably, but I'm not a big fan of them myself. That being one of the reasons I'm such a fan of the Winchester 1300 Defender... with just an 18" barrel, you get a one-piece, full-length mag tube for a total capacity of 8-shots! No extensions, no clamps. Just some thing to consider for those looking for a great pump shotgun for defense use.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/DefenderTrio.jpg

Hydra-SHOKz
09-23-2010, 23:38
:whistling:

DHart
09-24-2010, 01:57
As for cycling rounds through the shotgun to test the functioning of an extension, I have no qualms about doing that, IF NEED BE. That is NOT how I unload my shotguns, but I'm comfortable doing so if needed. Of course I'm a guy who shoots in his home and on his property, so my circumstances might be different from others. I'd be less comfortable doing that if I lived in an apartment or not on acreage

aeromarine
09-24-2010, 09:34
I knew that I would draw some heat from my comments about 1) lubing the inside of the mag tube and 2) cycling live rounds through a shotgun. So please let me clarify.

Clearly, with respect to "lubing" one has to use common sense. However, I think you are very safe if you use a light product light Rem Oil and then let it sit for a day or so to let the surface dry out. You might even gently swab out the area with a clean patch so nothing is wet when it comes time reload the gun. Also there is some strong evidence that the threat of oil v. ammo might be overstated. I think a lot of that comes from the experience of poorly trained and unknowledgeable police officers who have saturated their guns with oil then months later have had misfires. The attached link provides some very interesting test results.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot39.htm

With respect to cycling live rounds through a shotgun, I have found that is the only way to know for sure whether the gun will feed. Just my experience. However, I agree that when unloading a shotgun under normal circumstances it should always be a standard practice to simply manually release the shell catche(s) at the end of the mag tube and then ease out the shells through the loading port. To do otherwise is unnecessarily dangerous and is a sign of inexperience and lack of knowledge.

I'm really enjoying the back and forth on this thread! It's getting a lot of good ideas out for discussion and everyones opinion and experience has great value.

aippi
09-24-2010, 12:44
Areo- it not the oil on the ammo thing. It is that oil causes gunk. Micro dust and mess attaches to it. It only takes three, very, very, very light drops of oil to oil the 870 internally. And none of that should go into the mag tube. Liberal applications on the outside are required based on finish.

For the magazine tube I simply run a wooden dowel covered with steel wool through the magazine tube each time I clean my weapon and my mag tubes are run dry and look like mirrors inside. I make this device myslef. You can see it on my How to video "tube Extension Kit" on www.aiptactical.com (http://www.aiptactical.com) great tool for polishing the barrel chamber also.

Testing for cycling is best done with Dummey rounds not live ammo. As many AD's happen while cleaning as do on the range. Checking to see if the magazine tube will take 6 rounds is a good idea after install but safe unloading is wise and I use Dummy round for that also. I often thought about doing this with live rounds in the house back during my marriage but was not sure about trying this as my background could have been a problem claiming an AD.

I am sure there are guys that don't agree and they are welcome to maintain their weapon as they see fit.

DHart
09-24-2010, 13:35
Areo- it not the oil on the ammo thing. It is that oil causes gunk. Micro dust and mess attaches to it. It only takes three, very, very, very light drops of oil to oil the 870 internally. And none of that should go into the mag tube. Liberal applications on the outside are required based on finish.

For the magazine tube I simply run a wooden dowel covered with steel wool through the magazine tube each time I clean my weapon and my mag tubes are run dry and look like mirrors inside. I make this device myslef. You can see it on my How to video "tube Extension Kit" on www.aiptactical.com (http://www.aiptactical.com) great tool for polishing the barrel chamber also.

Testing for cycling is best done with Dummey rounds not live ammo. As many AD's happen while cleaning as do on the range. Checking to see if the magazine tube will take 6 rounds is a good idea after install but safe unloading is wise and I use Dummy round for that also. I often thought about doing this with live rounds in the house back during my marriage but was not sure about trying this as my background could have been a problem claiming an AD.

I am sure there are guys that don't agree and they are welcome to maintain their weapon as they see fit.

JD... I assume you run extensions on your go-to-defense 870s. Have you ever had a feed issue related to the extension at all? Do you check functioning of the extension somehow after reassembling from cleaning the gun?

SIGShooter
09-24-2010, 17:02
It's awesome that this particular thread is still going. I kind of forgot about it and was going to start a new up in regards to the aluminum follower.

So, an update to the aluminum follower…

I put 150 rounds down range since I got the follower.

Here's the scoop…When I start loading the magazine tube, after the 4th round, I can't load anymore rounds. I have to rack the shotgun to load a round into the chamber and then I'm good to go. Now mind you, I already have a round in the chamber…6+1…

Any thoughts? I changed out the mag tube spring…Wolf spring, the same one Wilson uses, and the Wilson hi viz follower to the aluminum style one I got. Never had this issue before using the Wilson follower.

aippi
09-24-2010, 18:07
Sounds like the tube extension was not properly installed when you put it back on. What tube are you running?

If Remington, the tube goes on appart. Take it off and remove the mag tube coupling. Now screw the coupling on first, install follower and spring and then the tube, just befor you run out of threads for the tube, bump the mag tube coupling with the heel of you hand, screw the tube down, bump again. Tighten tube.

If other extension that are one piece, just before you tighten them bump the coupling with the heel of you hand like above. What happens is the mag tube spring gets caught in the threads and will not let you load all the rounds.

SIGShooter
09-24-2010, 19:23
Sounds like the tube extension was not properly installed when you put it back on. What tube are you running?

If Remington, the tube goes on appart. Take it off and remove the mag tube coupling. Now screw the coupling on first, install follower and spring and then the tube, just befor you run out of threads for the tube, bump the mag tube coupling with the heel of you hand, screw the tube down, bump again. Tighten tube.

If other extension that are one piece, just before you tighten them bump the coupling with the heel of you hand like above. What happens is the mag tube spring gets caught in the threads and will not let you load all the rounds.




I will do this tonight ASAP! Thank you for the heads up!

It is a Wilson Border Patrol Shotgun. 6+1 and I believe it is a Wilson extension. I cannot remember at this time.

B.Reid
09-24-2010, 20:06
The facts don't support them.

Sometimes the experts are wrong or have been misguided. Sometimes you have think for yourself, listen and go by your own experience. I have some experience with shotgun mag tubes and I have never seen or heard of any damage ever being caused by a steel follower. I have used them in several of my shotguns for going 7 years now. Steel followers have been used for many years and if it was common, threads on the subject would have already been posted on the forums.

The Vang stainless follower is a very heavy duty follower. If it was causing damage to shotgun mag tubes it would have been pulled long ago.

At one time the experts thought the Earth was flat.


GC


Since the polymer ones work just fine why spend money on something that may cause damage and a malfunction at the very worst time?

aeromarine
09-24-2010, 20:06
aippi -- Yes, I understand the gunk, grit and goo issue, too, and agree lube can attract bad things. So your advice is sage. But it is also a matter of balance as long as one does not over do it. With regard to using 0000 steel wool, I tend to avoid it when working the inside areas of firearms. I find that it breaks down into little shards that tend get stuck under ejector springs, shell catchers, etc. and they can be very hard to flush out even with brake cleaner or Gunk Out and things like that. Typically, I will very gently use a bronze brush in the mag tube followed by rags on a dowel. Sometimes I will also use crocus cloth wrapped around a 10 or 12 gauge swab on a cleaning rod with a little Flitz or Brasso to get a final polish.

However, your point about using dummy rounds to check for proper cycling is an excellent one. I completely agree that using live rounds only invites a potential tragedy or, at best, thoroughly embarrassing and humiliating situation. KIDS, DO NOT TRY THAT AT HOME!

my762buzz
09-24-2010, 20:40
I know a lot of folks use extensions quite reliably, but I'm not a big fan of them myself. That being one of the reasons I'm such a fan of the Winchester 1300 Defender... with just an 18" barrel, you get a one-piece, full-length mag tube for a total capacity of 8-shots! No extensions, no clamps. Just some thing to consider for those looking for a great pump shotgun for defense use.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/DefenderTrio.jpg

I wonder why remington does not offer full length one piece magazines on at least some 870 models. I'm not a fan of extensions either but love the 870s.

aeromarine
09-25-2010, 21:40
Forgive me if I'm getting a little too far off topic but I'm looking for a two or three round mag extension for one of my Remington 870 20 gauge shotguns. I know Remington makes one but they are a bit difficult to come buy unless you buy an extension that is already installed on a new gun. Apparently, they don't sell them separately for a variety of reasons. I also know that Choate makes extension tubes for 20 gauge Remingtons, however, I do not care for the aesthetics of those parts. Does anyone know of other manufacturers that make 20 gauge mag extensions? Or how it might be possible to obtain an OEM Remington 870 unit? By the way, to get this thread back on track, be advised that when I find a 20 gauge extension I plan to use an aluminum shell follower from Brownells.

Jon Christopher
09-27-2010, 14:23
You might check Wilson combat for the 20 extension.

Jon

aeromarine
09-29-2010, 19:30
Thanks John Christopher and AIPPI for recommending the Wilson 20 guage mag extension. Currently, Wilson is out of stock but I will keep checking.

Jon Christopher
09-29-2010, 19:43
Looks like it is limited as far as the sling plates go, according to the WC website. If you do not need the sling plate, you may want to call them. I know you can order the 12g w/o the plate. They may be able to do the same thing with the 20 if you call them.

Jon

Devin459
09-29-2010, 22:05
OK, I work with steel and aluminum all day every day, it may not be with guns but I can tell you this. With the amount of force that the mag spring puts on the follower, there is absolutely noo way steel would do any more damage than aluminum. The only way your guys' logic would make any sense, is if the aluminum follower, somehow flexed/bent/sprung every time it hit the follower stop. Aluminum will flex and bend but again, not possible with the amount of pressure that the spring puts on the follower. That low amount of pressure also makes the difference in hardness and rigidity between steel and aluminum completely irrelivent. And yes, by saying this I most definitely am argueing with the experts who say different. Not to mention the follower doesn't even slam into the stop in the first place, and if it did the MAX length it would be "slamming" from is 3 inches. Let me say this again. With the force that the spring puts on the follower; There is NO WAY that steel would do any more damage. How is that for some logic? I will say though that aluminum tends to be a bit more "slippery" when talking metal on metal contact, so the only way it would do more damage than an aluminum follower is damage to the actual mag tube. But again that can be very well fixed with a quick wire wheel and polishing to the steel, although they are probably perfect from the factory. I can see an advantage with the aluminum, that being it will be slightly lighter in weight. I personally would not go with a metal follower anyway just because it will be harder to safety check. Plus I don't mind replacing things here and there. Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

aippi
09-29-2010, 22:57
Devin - Call 1-800-243-9700 and set Remington straight on this. You may be able to contact Jerry Kuhnhausen through Heritage -VSP Publications, Box 887, McCall ID, 83638 and let him know he is wrong also. He also has had shop manuals published for 39 other weapons so he may have a lot of incorrect information in those manuals also.

Devin459
09-29-2010, 23:22
Don't put words in my mouth. I said they are wrong about steel vs aluminum. Didn't say they had a bunch of errors in their manuals. Grow up and lose your hard head.

aippi
09-30-2010, 00:06
You said there is no way steel would do any more damge then aluminum. You further stated some mess about slaming and the spring. Not the issue Devin. The issue is shell surge as the last round is fired. So this shows me that you don't undestand the issue but have your theory. You also said " I am definately argueing with the experts who say different", which is that steel followers will damage the " follower stop shoulder" . So, I gave you their contact information. I have underlined the your words as used in your post. I simply try to help you get in touch with these people so you can set them straight since you are claiming to know more then they do about this subject.

You use words like "your guys logic" which I assume means anyone saying that the steel followers cause damage and the aluminum ones won't. We are not taking about theory or any mess like you are. This is a fact. Proven in thousand of Remington shotguns over the years. These are the people that designed this weapon 60 years ago and have sold over 10,000,000 million of them. The exact same "Follower shoulder stop" is in the one you buy today as the one you would have bought 60 years ago and the manufacturer of this weapon stopped using steel followers, went to plastic and is now coming out with an aluminum one. Why, because of "Slap-preening". And you said you are arguing with them so call and argue. Don't jump on me for giving you their contact info. I want you to call and maybe, just maybe you will get one of the LE armorers on the line who will explain this to you better then I can. You will then learn something about these weapons that will benifit you.

You made statements to say these people are wrong, here is one. "Let me say this again. With the force that the spring puts on the follower; There is NO WAY that steel would do any more damage. How is that for some logic? Your words man.

This one is just for fun because I had to read it twice but here is what you said. " Not to mention the follower doesn't even slam into the stop in the first place", Ah, yes it does man, that is why it is called the "Follower stop shoulder".

Anyway, just giving you the information you need to set these guys straight. This issue is dead, this thread is dead and anyone reading this can call Remington and find out the answer for themself. Or they can accept your "Logic"

MD357
09-30-2010, 00:28
That low amount of pressure also makes the difference in hardness and rigidity between steel and aluminum completely irrelivent. And yes, by saying this I most definitely am argueing with the experts who say different. Not to mention the follower doesn't even slam into the stop in the first place, and if it did the MAX length it would be "slamming" from is 3 inches. Let me say this again. With the force that the spring puts on the follower; There is NO WAY that steel would do any more damage. How is that for some logic? I will say though that aluminum tends to be a bit more "slippery" when talking metal on metal contact, so the only way it would do more damage than an aluminum follower is damage to the actual mag tube. But again that can be very well fixed with a quick wire wheel and polishing to the steel, although they are probably perfect from the factory. I can see an advantage with the aluminum, that being it will be slightly lighter in weight. I personally would not go with a metal follower anyway just because it will be harder to safety check. Plus I don't mind replacing things here and there. Just my opinion, take it or leave it. <!-- / message -->

This makes sense to me.

Out of curiosity, does anyone have any damage pics from SS followers?

Hydra-SHOKz
09-30-2010, 03:45
Out of curiosity, does anyone have any damage pics from SS followers?

Nope.:whistling:

MD357
09-30-2010, 09:38
Nope.:whistling:

I don't own the Kuhnhausen manual, is there a pic in it?

aippi
09-30-2010, 11:12
Drop by most any gun smiths and if he works on Remington shotguns he will have a copy and will let you look at it.

All of you should use whatever you want in your shotguns and not even bother calling Remington or reading any shop manuals. Not a single one of you have bothered to call Remington and find out for yourself let alone spend the thousands of dollars to get the training to work on these weapons. Some who has the training shares that knowledge with you and simply tells you to go verify it and you don't even go to the sources to check it out, you just argue.

I will end comment on the subject. I gave you the telephone number of Remington, follow the prompt to LE or repair. I gave you the shop manual source and the address of the publisher. I can't do more then that. Besides guys like you guys are not why I post the correct information on these weapons because you guys would not listen anyway, you know more then the people who have been manufacturering these weapons and know more then the guys who write the book the rest of us use to repair these weapons, so you don't need any input from me or anyone else. I post info for the guys who don't know but want to learn.

MD357
09-30-2010, 12:09
I asked because I was considering order some Vang followers. They were suggested to me by one of our local gunsmiths whom has set up many guns that went through local classes. Nobody can provide that these cause damage and he knows quite a bit about 870s as I would imagine that Vang does aswell.

Again, does anyone have any detailed pics? Proof?

Hydra-SHOKz
09-30-2010, 21:19
Again, does anyone have any detailed pics? Proof?

None that I can find. I use Vang SS followers with zero worries.

SIGShooter
11-06-2010, 20:25
I decided to go back to the plastic followers.

Even with everything you recommended aippi I still had issues with the aluminum follower.

Since I replaced the aluminum with the Wilson plastic follower, all issues have been cleared.

aippi
11-07-2010, 23:33
All my 870's have the Wilson tube and followers. Even the 870 I use as a slug gun has a one shot Wilson and Wilson follower. I recommend them to all my clients. You can spend more but can't get better. I sure did not recommend an aluminum one but may have said to try that but don't use stainless steel or steel ones. With all the mess this thread started, including the attack post against me on another forum ( 'cause they would not allow that kind on mess on here) I think it was all worth it as long as you have that weapon rocking and rolling like it was built to do. These sites are best to improve our knowledge, share it and other expriences that make us better shooters and our weapons perform better. Remington has a new Aluminum follower out and I know a couple guys that are trying it. Me, I will stick with what I know works, works well and that I can trust when my A double S is on the line. However, they will be the test dummies and if these new Remington ones work for them I will try them and if they pass my approval I will make them availible in my AI&P Tactical builds for those few guys I can't talk out of useing the Remington Extensions.