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WFR
03-17-2010, 17:17
I found a parkerized 870 with a 20" barrel but it does not have "Police" anywhere on it.
When they first started producing these did they say "Police" on the receiver?
It is not an express model as it has the polished black bolt.
Is this a factory magazine tube extension?
(Note that it extends past the barrel about an inch or so.)
I borrowed this picture from Shotgunworld as this is the only one I have found like it so far. Looks exactly like this without the word "Police".
Serial number is W6112**M.
It is missing the front sling swivel stud.
If this is an early police model is it worth $300 + tax?
Thanks for any and all info!
WFR

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w22/WFR11B/870Police1.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w22/WFR11B/870Police2.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w22/WFR11B/870Police3.jpg

aippi
03-17-2010, 18:09
If is an early Police model it is parkerized and simply has "Remington 870 Magnum" engraved on it. The use of the word Police came later. The ones even earlier then the one you are asking about were simply "Wingmasters" with short barrels and the hard wood stocks with an LE forend. Even today an 870 Police is simply a Parkerized Wingmaster with one small spring being different.

I would not pay $300 for an old P model that can be beat all to hell when I can get an HD model 25077 for $350.00. there is only one 870 and they differ only by finish, furniture and about $20 small parts

WFR
03-17-2010, 18:27
If is an early Police model it is parkerized and simply has "Remington 870 Magnum" engraved on it. The use of the word Police came later. The ones even earlier then the one you are asking about were simply "Wingmasters" with short barrels and the hard wood stocks with an LE forend. Even today an 870 Police is simply a Parkerized Wingmaster with one small spring being different.

I would not pay $300 for an old P model that can be beat all to hell when I can get an HD model 25077 for $350.00. there is only one 870 and they differ only by finish, furniture and about $20 small parts
After reading some other posts I am in agreement.
Seems these come up for sale as police trade-ins for $200 or so on a regular basis.
I think I'd actually prefer one without the ext mag tube and an 18" barrel anyhow.
I do like the parkerized finish though.
Thanks!

ETA: I've been looking over your website and it's very informative. Thanks!

stopatrain
03-18-2010, 18:56
I love the 870 and the Winchester 1300.

wrenrj1
03-18-2010, 19:05
I love the 870 and the Winchester 1300.

Mine with the extended mag tube is the 870 Express Magnum, similar to the Marine Magnum but parkerized. My first shotty was a Winchester 1300 with a 20" barrel, basically a Turkey gun. It's a duel purpose shotty.


Maybe I missed your issue, are you thinking there's a dramatic difference between the Express Magnum and one stamped with "Police?"

ElevatedThreat
03-20-2010, 20:43
Back when all Remington 870s were of good quality, they did not feel the need to put the word "POLICE" on the police guns. Being a Remington 870 spoke for itself.

But now that Remington has cheapened the sporting version of the 870 into a piece of crap, they make the old-style quality guns only in their Law Enforcement line.

So now they engrave POLICE on their law enforcement shotguns, to assure law enforcement customers that the shotgun has quality parts inside, and that some care went into its assembly.

The implication is that it is no longer wise to trust one's life to a sporting version of the 870.

More's the pity....

-ET

Jeff82
03-20-2010, 21:07
Funny, I just came across this...

Meat-Hook
03-21-2010, 03:58
WFR,

those are some *outstanding* pics of the 870 Police. Thanks for posting them.

I looked around Shotgunworld but was unable to locate these pics so if you have a direct link I would appreciate it.

FWIW,..I am a fairly new owner of an 870 Police. Just got thru shooting it again this past Friday. Man,...I so love this shotgun.!!!!

it came from the factory with the extension tube, parkerized, bead front site, ect. just like the one in the pics.

love it.

aippi
03-21-2010, 13:50
Eelvated Threat - The only difference between the 870 models are the finish, furniture and a couple small parts. So calling any 870 a priece of crap is calling all of them that and I am sure you don't mean that. Also, almost nothing has changed since it came out in 1950 so to say the old ones are different is also wrong.

An 870 Police is simply a Parkerized Wingmaster with every part the same ecept one $3 spring. Being the Wigmaster is a Sporting model I think you can now see how wrong you are.

The 870 police has the same receiver as any 870 except it is parkerized. It has the same bolt and even the same finish but has a different extractor. Same barrels but they are parkerized. Same forend tube assembly. Same parts in the trigger plate assembly except for one spring and the Tacticals and Express come with a polymer trigger palte assembly but all the same parts as any Wingmaster or Police.

You are incorrectly attacking the most popular pump shotgun made in the last 60 years and are completely wrong about what you have said. So understand that there is only one 870 and they only differ by finish and furniture.

ElevatedThreat
03-21-2010, 19:03
Eelvated Threat - The only difference between the 870 models are the finish, furniture and a couple small parts. So calling any 870 a priece of crap is calling all of them that and I am sure you don't mean that. Also, almost nothing has changed since it came out in 1950 so to say the old ones are different is also wrong.

An 870 Police is simply a Parkerized Wingmaster with every part the same ecept one $3 spring. Being the Wigmaster is a Sporting model I think you can now see how wrong you are.

The 870 police has the same receiver as any 870 except it is parkerized. It has the same bolt and even the same finish but has a different extractor. Same barrels but they are parkerized. Same forend tube assembly. Same parts in the trigger plate assembly except for one spring and the Tacticals and Express come with a polymer trigger palte assembly but all the same parts as any Wingmaster or Police.

You are incorrectly attacking the most popular pump shotgun made in the last 60 years and are completely wrong about what you have said. So understand that there is only one 870 and they only differ by finish and furniture.

Remington disagrees with you.

Since this data is so readily available on the 'net, perhaps you should have done a Google search before attacking:

http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/articles/870ExpvsPol6-30-05.pdf

870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

(If there were not very significant differences between the two guns, do you really think that Remington would go to the trouble and expense of maintaining two entire separate assembly facilities, manufacturing and assembly staffs, and parts supply lines?)

-ET

Another Miller
03-21-2010, 20:08
So why not just get an express with a magnum receiver,replace the bolt,mag spring and follower and trigger assembly from a used police model?Thats what I did and its every bit as smooth and reliable as a expensive police engraved gun for about 100 less,including the parts which drop in.

aippi
03-21-2010, 20:26
I did not attack you, I simply pointed out that you are not very well informed about the 870. I am, and I know as much about this weapon as anyone on this site as that is all I do. I am factory trained, my business is the 870 and I build and rebuild hundreds a year. I also perform Armorer work on weapons for Law Enforcement agencies. so, since I know the 870 and you do not I pointed out that your statement was false because you don't much about these weapon or you would not have made such a statement. That is what I was addressing.

Do you know that a guy sits in a room and they bring them a box of breech bolts. If he needs 20 Police bolts he takes the first 20 out and puts a solid steel extractor in it and if he needs 20 Express bolts he takes 20 out and puts MIM extractors in them. Yes that is right. The exact same breech bolt, exact same matte finish and only nore part different, the extractor. So all Express and all Police Bolts are assembled by the same guys in the same chair and are the same bolt . I stood there and watched and will again next month so I am telling you this is a fact, not an opinion and not something I read on the inter-net. I could go on about the receivers the barrel and all the other parts of this weapon but most the guys on this site know there is little difference in these weapons and about everyone knows an 870 Police is nothing but a Parkerized Wingmaster with one $3 spring different. So to say all Sporting 870 are crap shows you have very little knowledge of the 870 as they are the same weapon as the 870 Police you are praising.

Do you know that if went to the Remington Part list and you built an 870 4+1 Express and an 870 4+1 Police with the same stock sets. the 870 Police would be $41 cheaper? Do you know the 18.5" Police barrel with I/C choke and bead sight cost $101? However the 18.5" bead sight Express barrel cost $134.00. It is all right there on the Remington parts list for those who will take the time to look instead of read some Marketing mess.

You have simply pasted some marketing stuff from Remington as you have very little knowledge of this subject and have to rely on what you can find on line. So to tell users of this web site not to trust their life to any sporting 870 is simply wrong. You should not comment on things you have limited knowledge of as fact but should simply state that in your opinion they should not trust their life to any Sporting 870. Of course very few would agree with you as there are more 870 Wingmasters, Express HD's and Tactical models sitting by beds then there are P models.

One more time. There is only one 870 and they only differ by finish and furniture and a few small parts. I will not reply to this post any further as facts are facts and most guys already know. I just will not let anyone make an incorrect statement like you did without speaking up and giving other readers the facts.

ElevatedThreat
03-22-2010, 18:11
I did not attack you, I simply pointed out that you are not very well informed about the 870. I am, and I know as much about this weapon as anyone on this site as that is all I do. I am factory trained, my business is the 870 and I build and rebuild hundreds a year. I also perform Armorer work on weapons for Law Enforcement agencies. so, since I know the 870 and you do not I pointed out that your statement was false because you don't much about these weapon or you would not have made such a statement. That is what I was addressing.

Do you know that a guy sits in a room and they bring them a box of breech bolts. If he needs 20 Police bolts he takes the first 20 out and puts a solid steel extractor in it and if he needs 20 Express bolts he takes 20 out and puts MIM extractors in them. Yes that is right. The exact same breech bolt, exact same matte finish and only nore part different, the extractor. So all Express and all Police Bolts are assembled by the same guys in the same chair and are the same bolt . I stood there and watched and will again next month so I am telling you this is a fact, not an opinion and not something I read on the inter-net. I could go on about the receivers the barrel and all the other parts of this weapon but most the guys on this site know there is little difference in these weapons and about everyone knows an 870 Police is nothing but a Parkerized Wingmaster with one $3 spring different. So to say all Sporting 870 are crap shows you have very little knowledge of the 870 as they are the same weapon as the 870 Police you are praising.

Do you know that if went to the Remington Part list and you built an 870 4+1 Express and an 870 4+1 Police with the same stock sets. the 870 Police would be $41 cheaper? Do you know the 18.5" Police barrel with I/C choke and bead sight cost $101? However the 18.5" bead sight Express barrel cost $134.00. It is all right there on the Remington parts list for those who will take the time to look instead of read some Marketing mess.

You have simply pasted some marketing stuff from Remington as you have very little knowledge of this subject and have to rely on what you can find on line. So to tell users of this web site not to trust their life to any sporting 870 is simply wrong. You should not comment on things you have limited knowledge of as fact but should simply state that in your opinion they should not trust their life to any Sporting 870. Of course very few would agree with you as there are more 870 Wingmasters, Express HD's and Tactical models sitting by beds then there are P models.

One more time. There is only one 870 and they only differ by finish and furniture and a few small parts. I will not reply to this post any further as facts are facts and most guys already know. I just will not let anyone make an incorrect statement like you did without speaking up and giving other readers the facts.

You can continue to repeat the same fallacies over and over if you are so inclined, but I posted Remington's own summary of the extensive and meaningful differences between the two shotguns.

Another way to view this situation is that Remington has preserved the old way of making robust and reliable 870s in their Law Enforcement manufacturing facility, and then gone on to incrementally cheapen and cheapen the manufacture of their sporting shotgun line. (They have cheapened the sporting guns in response to market changes, and price point challenges from imported guns like the Chinese clones of the 870.)

It is patently obvious to anyone with an open mind that if Remington had confidence that the parts and assembly methods used in their current sporting guns were suitable for law enforcement use, they would not manufacture their Law Enforcement guns in a totally separate facility, using different parts, different staff, and different inspection and QC protocols.

Companies simply don't invest that sort of capital on a whim.

-ET