Which caliber for SBR?

[Willard]

So, toying with the idea of the next project... I'm interested in a SBR for HD, and possibly suppressed. Leaning toward pistol calibers ie 9mm, 10mm, 45 ACP...

I like the fact that you generally have heavier bullets in pistol calibers, and can switch from sub-sonic to supersonic rounds (according to use).

So, what are your thoughts?

[AK_Stick]

If you're really thinking about using it for HD, I would say a supressed 5.56 or 6.8 shorty would be your best bet.


They pack worlds more power than a 9mm or 10mm, have better terminal effects, and in the 5.56, will penetrate less than the 9mm or 10mm if you miss.

[smoke]

I too have toyed with the pistol caliber SBR concept. My thoughts are:

LWD GLOCK Mag lower using G18 9mm mags.

RRA 9mm Upper cut to 10.5".

Winchester Ranger Talon 147gr ammo.

I'll probably just stay with a flash suppressor/comp. A can would be nice though.

[skorittnig]

If you're really thinking about using it for HD, I would say a supressed 5.56 or 6.8 shorty would be your best bet.


They pack worlds more power than a 9mm or 10mm, have better terminal effects, and in the 5.56, will penetrate less than the 9mm or 10mm if you miss.

I thought a rifle projectile would be more likely to pass through a wall, than a 147 grain 9mm flying at 850 fps. :dunno:

Personally (as a class III firearm owner- sbr, full auto, silencers etc), I would recommend using a shotgun for home defense- and avoid using your class III items. If you have to defend your life, or the lives of your family with a class III weapon, you WILL be made to look like a mad-man just looking for an excuse to execute someone with your super scary silenced gun that every single juror didn't even know was legal for a civilian to own.

Best of luck to you in your decision.

[AK_Stick]

I thought a rifle projectile would be more likely to pass through a wall, than a 147 grain 9mm flying at 850 fps. :dunno:

Personally (as a class III firearm owner- sbr, full auto, silencers etc), I would recommend using a shotgun for home defense- and avoid using your class III items. If you have to defend your life, or the lives of your family with a class III weapon, you WILL be made to look like a mad-man just looking for an excuse to execute someone with your super scary silenced gun that every single juror didn't even know was legal for a civilian to own.

Best of luck to you in your decision.


You'd have thought wrong. But don't feel bad, many do.

Thats part of the reason so many police units are going to SBR 5.56 weapons.


Lastly, has anyone ever found a case where a good shoot was ruled against the defendant because he used a NFA weapon? I don't know of one.

[phxfa]

The guy who worked for HK and used a Ruger AC556 comes to mind. this topic on class lll for HD has been beaten to death :upeyes:

[DD26]

I too have toyed with the pistol caliber SBR concept. My thoughts are:

LWD GLOCK Mag lower using G18 9mm mags.

RRA 9mm Upper cut to 10.5".

Winchester Ranger Talon 147gr ammo.

I'll probably just stay with a flash suppressor/comp. A can would be nice though.

Personally, I wouldn't SBR a dedicated 9mm lower, like the LWD. I'd much rather go with a standard lower. That way, you can have SBR uppers in different flavors and use them on one SBR'd lower.

That's just my $.02.

[crazypilot]

If you're really thinking about using it for HD, I would say a supressed 5.56 or 6.8 shorty would be your best bet.


They pack worlds more power than a 9mm or 10mm, have better terminal effects, and in the 5.56, will penetrate less than the 9mm or 10mm if you miss.

Already said what I was going to post. I have an 11.5" 5.56mm "pistol" that I will soon SBR. I already have an AAC M4-1000 that's going on it as well. Easy to manuever around with great ballistics. Won't hurt your ears either.

[AK_Stick]

The guy who worked for HK and used a Ruger AC556 comes to mind. this topic on class lll for HD has been beaten to death :upeyes:



Was not a good shoot, ruled bad solely by the NFA weapon. It was a less than clear cut shooting to start with. The NFA weapon was just one more thing in the stack.

[0reo]

When you say SBR, exactly how short were you thinking? IMO, this will dictate whether you should consider a rifle round vs. a pistol round. <14" is really crippling the whole speed-power advantage of a rifle round. (Barrel length vs. terminal ballistics of 5.56 has been discussed ad nauseum on many forums.) Not to mention the noise & fireball effect.

I could see a real advantage of using a high powered pistol caliber- say 10mm in something like a 10"-12" barrel. Hand-loading makes a lot of sense for that kind of gun though to really get the most velocity out of a bullet designed for it. A gun like this capable of sending bullets through an awful lot of drywall though, so just keep that in mind.


I know the penetration thing has been explained many times but it's worth going over again for as many times as the question comes up in this forum. The reason why your typical handgun round will go through more walls then a rifle round like the 5.56 has to do with the speed, weight, and design of the bullet. On impact a handgun bullet will generally stay in one piece and punch a clean hole more or less relative to the diameter of the bullet. Handgun bullets are designed to stay in one piece and expand on impact to cut a slightly larger hole. A rifle round reacts less intuitively. Because a rifle bullet is moving so fast, on impact with just about anything the bullet disintegrates into many tiny pieces almost instantaneously. Some rifle bullets are designed to maximize this effect. There's a youtube video of a bullet hitting a grape and turning to dust. Ironically, it is because of this fragmentation that rifle bullets are both far more lethal then handgun rounds and yet penetrate far less relative to the projectile weight. See the mythbusters episode. Their demonstration was perfect.

[phxfa]

the 6.8SPC round was designed for an SBR, loses very little velocity/energy as you aproach the 10-12 in barrel lengths especially compared to the 5.56.

[smoke]

Personally, I wouldn't SBR a dedicated 9mm lower, like the LWD. I'd much rather go with a standard lower. That way, you can have SBR uppers in different flavors and use them on one SBR'd lower.

That's just my $.02.

I thought about that and I do plan to SBR a standard lower too, maybe a couple. I'm kinda a dedicated platform guy, as I don't do the multi-caliber "transformer" conversion stuff that others seem to like.

Maybe I'll do the regular lower, SOCOM mag block, and sten mags?- Dunno

The 6.8 appears to be a nice concept too.

[cgjane]

I have 2 SBRs, and am now in the market for a HD Shotgun.

The Shotgun will be my primary HD "long".

The SBRs are only going out for range fun, and "Katrina" like situations.

[Willard]

When you say SBR, exactly how short were you thinking? IMO, this will dictate whether you should consider a rifle round vs. a pistol round. <14" is really crippling the whole speed-power advantage of a rifle round. (Barrel length vs. terminal ballistics of 5.56 has been discussed ad nauseum on many forums.) Not to mention the noise & fireball effect.

I could see a real advantage of using a high powered pistol caliber- say 10mm in something like a 10"-12" barrel. Hand-loading makes a lot of sense for that kind of gun though to really get the most velocity out of a bullet designed for it. A gun like this capable of sending bullets through an awful lot of drywall though, so just keep that in mind.




This is why I was considering a pistol caliber SBR. 10-12" barrel. I was trying to avoid the fireball (and NOISE) of a SBR in 223.

Someone mentioned the 6.8 SPC - I hadn't considered it. Short-barrel ballistics OK? Fireball effect?

[cgjane]

This is why I was considering a pistol caliber SBR. 10-12" barrel. I was trying to avoid the fireball (and NOISE) of a SBR in 223.

Someone mentioned the 6.8 SPC - I hadn't considered it. Short-barrel ballistics OK? Fireball effect?

With the Noveske KX3 "Pig" the fireballs are reduced on my SBRs.

[staarma]

I did an LMT 10.5" 5.56 upper on a TI lower marked caliber multi so I could use different uppers on the dedicated lower. The lower is the only part that gets "registered" as the SBR. That way, if you sell the upper you can then buy say a 9mm upper and attach it to your papered lower and you're in business. On my form it is marked multi in the caliber section. At least that was my way of thinking.

[glock22357]

Why do you feel that you need an SBR for HD? Seems like it's just more of a toy than anything else.....there's plenty of much more effective options for HD that don't require the forms, money, hassle, etc.

However....if you just want one for poops and giggles, then by all means, just get what you want!!

[Willard]

Why do you feel that you need an SBR for HD? Seems like it's just more of a toy than anything else.....there's plenty of much more effective options for HD that don't require the forms, money, hassle, etc.

However....if you just want one for poops and giggles, then by all means, just get what you want!!

Well, I _am_ "pro-12-gauge" for HD, but have other thoughts:

1) faster follow-up shots with SBR;
2) less recoil = more appropriate HD tool for my wife;
3) possibly less hearing damage (fired indoors, w/o hearing protection);
4) AND - poops and giggles!

[staarma]

3) possibly less hearing damage (fired indoors, w/o hearing protection);


You obviously haven't been around my LMT 10.5 with the flaming pig on the end. That sucker is louder than my .300 Ultra and my Defender combined. lol

I keep the G17 with light/laser by the bed. Wife is comfortable with it and the frangibles just about guarantee it won't go through the walls and into the neighbors or the floor to the kids' rooms. The Defender is handy too but loaded with double 00 and 1 oz. slugs alternately so not too friendly for the house but will get it done if need be through the walls. And lastly the AK is just inside the closest safe door rocked with a 40 rounder. The shorty is nice for clearing doorways and slithering around in the dark but I just don't think about it for the HD answer for some reason. I did it for kewl factor and because I could.:cool:

[Willard]

You obviously haven't been around my LMT 10.5 with the flaming pig on the end. That sucker is louder than my .300 Ultra and my Defender combined. lol



Again - that's why I was thinking about pistol caliber SBRs... possibly suppressed. I _know_ a SBR in 223 is LOUD. :)

[staarma]

Again - that's why I was thinking about pistol caliber SBRs... possibly suppressed. I _know_ a SBR in 223 is LOUD. :)


Ok, gotcha, I wasn't sure if you had been around them. I've always wanted to try a 9mm on mine FWIW. "Cheap" ammo and fun to shoot.

[edrobert]

Although I would not use mine for HD, I'd feel more than comfortable with the ability to deliver 32 rounds of 9mm quickly/accurately on target without losing my hearing :)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb244/a996hawk/IMG_3752.jpg

[kabob983]

If you're really thinking about using it for HD, I would say a supressed 5.56 or 6.8 shorty would be your best bet.


They pack worlds more power than a 9mm or 10mm, have better terminal effects, and in the 5.56, will penetrate less than the 9mm or 10mm if you miss.

6.8 SPC would get my vote.

Again - that's why I was thinking about pistol caliber SBRs... possibly suppressed. I _know_ a SBR in 223 is LOUD. :)

You're sort of chasing yourself in a circle. You want it short but think that SBR rifles are too loud/concussive, but at the same time you're already thinking suppressing it which sort of negates those two points. Sure, it'll still be louder/more violent than a pistol caliber but you're getting alot more velocity and less penetration all in one with the rifle option. And for HD I wouldn't worry too much about having a completely silent weapon.

[crazypilot]

I did an LMT 10.5" 5.56 upper on a TI lower marked caliber multi so I could use different uppers on the dedicated lower. The lower is the only part that gets "registered" as the SBR. That way, if you sell the upper you can then buy say a 9mm upper and attach it to your papered lower and you're in business. On my form it is marked multi in the caliber section. At least that was my way of thinking.

It doesn't matter what lower you get. If you get a lower marked .223 or 5.56, all you have to do is add the other caliber(s) you'd like to shoot and what barrel lengths in the Form 1 Additional Data box. I've confirmed that with the NFA section already. Hence why I went with a Daniel Defense Lower.

[agtman]

Still not clear why a 5.56mm SBR (configured, say, between 10"-12") is less preferable than a pistol-caliber SBR ... :whistling: Just askin' ...

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/agtman/MRP-1.jpg

:cool:

[staarma]

It doesn't matter what lower you get. If you get a lower marked .223 or 5.56, all you have to do is add the other caliber(s) you'd like to shoot and what barrel lengths in the Form 1 Additional Data box. I've confirmed that with the NFA section already. Hence why I went with a Daniel Defense Lower.


Good to know but contrary to the info they told me. I did mine about 2 years ago. I wonder if something changed? Why do they mark them multi caliber then? I'll have to do some more checking.

[GEBEBPRS]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/gebraddy/SEF%20TACTICAL/SCARGLOCK.jpg
SBR a Glock 35, Suppressed, then mount it to your AR... Or SCAR.. best of both worlds

[RMTactical]

I would go 5.56 personally.