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mattz357
04-18-2010, 21:16
Does anyone know what is required to legally buy a short barrel shotgun in Illinois? What "tax stamp" do I need and how do I get it? What else do I need? Also, where can you find short barrel shotguns for sale (either SxS or pump)? I've found a couple of sites, but not many. Thanks in advance for any info!

cangler
04-18-2010, 21:50
I'm in the process of trying to obtain a SBS, and what I've learned recently is there are a few different loops you can jump through to be able to own NFA weapon(s). Find a class 3 firearm dealer in your area, and they should able to explain your options. From what I hear, it's just a lot of waiting.

mattz357
04-18-2010, 22:00
Any idea where to find a listing of class 3 dealers? Is the SBS (AOW) a class 3 or class 2 (what is the difference for that matter)? Have you found out anything about the "stamp" and is it really only $5? Thanks!

cangler
04-18-2010, 22:43
http://nfadealers.com/#Illinois:

This site is only listing one IL class 3 dealer, but I'd imagine there are many more than that. As far as finding more, I'm not real sure.
I was lucky enough to have quite a few listed for TX.

Any shotgun that was originally equipped with a shoulder stock, but has a barrel less than 18" in length (as measured from the face of the closed bolt to the end of the permanent muzzle) or an overall length less than 26". The Federal Transfer tax on a SBS is $200.

Any National Firearms Act (NFA) firearm not otherwise categorized by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms as a short-barreled rifle, modern shoulder-stocked pistol, short-barreled shotgun, machine gun, sound suppressor (silencer), or destructive device. Included in the list of AOWs are firearms disguised so they are not readily recognizable as firearms, such as pen guns, cane guns, and wallet holsters that hide the outline of the firearm and allow it to be fired while holstered. Also included are pistols with both front and rear pistol grips, handguns with smooth bore barrels less than 18" in length and intended to fire shotgun shells; and combination rifle/shotguns with barrels over 12" but under 18", provided each chamber is single shot and only can be manually reloaded. The Federal Transfer tax on an AOW is $5.

What does it mean? It means a manufacturer can turn a gun such as a Mossberg Cruiser (comes with pistol grip only) into an AOW by shortening the barrel to less than 18". The buyer pays the $5 tax when purchasing it. The manufacturer cannot turn any shoulder-stocked shotgun or even a kit gun (a shotgun that comes with both a pistol grip and shoulder stock) into an AOW. Such guns, if shortened to less than 26" overall or fitted with a barrel under 18", must be registered as a SBS, which means the $200 transfer tax must be paid by the buyer. The advantage of the SBS is that it can be configured with either a shoulder stock or pistol grip. With the exception stated in the paragraph above, most AOWs can have only a pistol grip - not a shoulder stock.

Quoted from http://www.paladinarmory.com/SBSAOW.htm

stmcelroy
04-18-2010, 23:26
Any idea where to find a listing of class 3 dealers? Is the SBS (AOW) a class 3 or class 2 (what is the difference for that matter)? Have you found out anything about the "stamp" and is it really only $5? Thanks!

SBS is $200
AOW is $5

mattz357
04-19-2010, 07:12
That was very good info about AOW vs SBS. Which manufacturers make AOWs? I think there might be a guy who has class 3 that comes to our gunshows, I'll just have to wait until the next show and get his info. What do I need to do to get the stamp and whatever else makes it ok for me to have an AOW? Thanks!

DPris
04-19-2010, 09:46
Obtain the right federal form, submit two fingerprint cards along with a signature from your top law enforcement guy or gal in your area, send them off with your money to the ATF & sit back and wait for them to process it all.
Once the approved form comes back, it'll have the tax stamp affixed to it, and you take those to the dealer who does the transfer for you.

AOWs are not particularly common.

Denis

mattz357
04-20-2010, 17:42
I've found a few AOWs, but sadly what I really wanted was the SxS and I have a feeling all of those are going to be SBS. Depending on what is involved I may apply for the AOW just to see if it goes through. I haven't looked at the ATF site yet, but is there a link to download the forms online? Thanks to all!

stmcelroy
04-20-2010, 17:48
I've found a few AOWs, but sadly what I really wanted was the SxS and I have a feeling all of those are going to be SBS. Depending on what is involved I may apply for the AOW just to see if it goes through. I haven't looked at the ATF site yet, but is there a link to download the forms online? Thanks to all!

You've got to either buy one from a local dealer or have one shipped to a local dealer, then they will help you fill out the paperwork.

You don't apply first, you must have the actual gun and serial number on the Form 4.

DPris
04-20-2010, 18:06
STM beat me to it.

You first find the gun you want, arrange for the dealer to hold it for you pending the return of the federal paperwork, and that specific gun's serial number & other info must be on the papers when you send them in to ATF.

The stamp & related forms are not a general license to buy. You find the gun, submit the forms, get the papers & stamp back (which are specific to THAT GUN ONLY), and you take your papers to the dealer & finish the deal.

You go through that on each & every applicable gun you buy.

Denis

mattz357
04-21-2010, 06:00
Hard question to answer, but what happens if for some reason you don't get your stamp? There is a really good chance I'd have to order my shotgun so I'd be out $800 if the stamp didn't come through.

stmcelroy
04-21-2010, 09:11
Hard question to answer, but what happens if for some reason you don't get your stamp? There is a really good chance I'd have to order my shotgun so I'd be out $800 if the stamp didn't come through.

Have you been convicted of any crimes? Over 21?

If not there is no reason why you will not get approved for your stamp.


If for some reason you do, then you can just turn around and sell it to someone else. Have you dealer sell it to them or have him ship it to their FFL.

DPris
04-21-2010, 11:13
Dealers understand that sale of the gun is conditional on the paperwork's approval.
You don't lose your money if it doesn't go through, it just cancels the sale.
Depending on the dealer there may be a deposit you might lose.

Check with your local Class III dealer for how they handle such things, but if your local CLEO signs the papers, your background comes through OK, your local laws don't prohibit possession, and your check doesn't bounce, you should be approved.

It's not a capricious process where ATF picks & chooses, if you have everything lined up in order the stamp should automatically issue.
Again- call your local dealer & ask about what they need & how they handle the process while your papers & prints are wandering around the country.
If they have something you want in inventory, it's a simple process, if you're buying from an individual it's a little more complicated.
Denis

MJB
04-21-2010, 17:23
You do know you can go down to 18" without any hassle. How short do you want and why?

If you don't mind my asking.

Your fellow Illinoisan

mattz357
04-21-2010, 20:26
I have an 18" 870 and I love it, but what I really wanted was a really short barrel SxS (like in Desperado). I've learned a lot in the last couple days and now realize that I could go through a lot of hassle for a Serbu or something similar and not really have what I want, or I could go on wanting a SxS but not get one because according to a link I found only AOWs are allowed for IL. I'm leaning toward abandoning this goose chase, though I still really want a short barrel shotgun... and I think it would be fun to have something class III. Thanks to all!

220 swift
04-16-2011, 00:03
Check out the ithica auto burglar gun,it qualifies as c&r as well,somewhat rare and a little pricey,they were made in 2 models a or b but sounds like what your looking for - good luck to you

WoodenPlank
04-16-2011, 00:42
I am pretty sure that SBS and SBR are illegal in Illinois...

1 old 0311
04-16-2011, 09:59
http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n489/kcq1/370_Super-Shorty20.jpg

....:whistling:....

David Armstrong
04-16-2011, 14:28
Does anyone know what is required to legally buy a short barrel shotgun in Illinois? What "tax stamp" do I need and how do I get it? What else do I need? Also, where can you find short barrel shotguns for sale (either SxS or pump)? I've found a couple of sites, but not many. Thanks in advance for any info!

As has been said, go to a Class 3 dealer and learn this stuff from them. Obviously you are new to this and believe me, the internet is not the place to get OJT with this kind of stuff. Not only are there assorted Federal hoops to jump through but many states also have their own rules and regulations.

New York Hunter
04-17-2011, 00:20
I am pretty sure that SBS and SBR are illegal in Illinois...
That was going to be my question. Even if the Fed's approve you to own a SBS, will the State of Illinois allow you to own and/or possess one?

GenoTac Ind.
04-17-2011, 13:55
That was going to be my question. Even if the Fed's approve you to own a SBS, will the State of Illinois allow you to own and/or possess one?

The Feds won't approve you having one because you wont be able to turn the paper work in because, if you go with the Form 1 or 4, you would need a Chief LEO, of your city/county to sign your form, and if it is illegal in IL, the Chief LEO won't sign it.

Your best bet. Move out of that state and go to a NFA friendly state.

DD26
04-17-2011, 14:08
Any idea where to find a listing of class 3 dealers? Is the SBS (AOW) a class 3 or class 2 (what is the difference for that matter)? Have you found out anything about the "stamp" and is it really only $5? Thanks!

SBS is $200
AOW is $5



Just to clarify further.......the AOW tax is only $5 for transfers of existing AOW's. For instance, buying that Serbu Super Shorty that's picture a few posts above would be a $5 tax for the transfer.

But let's say you already own a non-AOW shotgun. In order to turn it into an AOW, you'd still pay the $200 tax, since you're now "manufacturing" it.

Just wanted to clarify that, since I used to think that the tax on all AOW's was $5, period.

WoodenPlank
04-18-2011, 02:18
That was going to be my question. Even if the Fed's approve you to own a SBS, will the State of Illinois allow you to own and/or possess one?

As someone else said, no CLEO will sign the paperwork. Even if you do it through a trust, and circumvent CLEO, the ATF will almost certainly reject your paperwork. I have had several phone conversations with the inspector from my Form 1 for my SBR, and he actually gave me the info I needed on my 5320.20 for taking my SBR to NC to be compliant with their laws. That shows me that they're obviously pretty up to speed on state regs, and (when possible) will keep you from running afoul of them.

As someone else suggested, move the hell out of Illinois. There are plenty of states that will gladly let you own whatever NFA items you want, and won't take a leak all over your other rights, either.

m24shooter
04-18-2011, 15:20
But let's say you already own a non-AOW shotgun. In order to turn it into an AOW, you'd still pay the $200 tax, since you're now "manufacturing" it.

Just wanted to clarify that, since I used to think that the tax on all AOW's was $5, period.
To expand on this, I don't believe you can manufacture an AOW from a shotgun that has had a stock on it. In order for a weapon to be an AOW it has to have left the factory without a stock, and never had one attached.

WoodenPlank
04-18-2011, 15:27
To expand on this, I don't believe you can manufacture an AOW from a shotgun that has had a stock on it. In order for a weapon to be an AOW it has to have left the factory without a stock, and never had one attached.

There's no real point in doing a shotgun aow on a form 1 in most cases. The tax is the same as an sbs, and the sbs allows you to switch from pistol grip only to a stock if you want. The only reason I see to go aow on a form 1 is if your state allows aows but not sbs. A form 4 is a different story, of course.