Another S&W 15-22 joins the ranks, not such a good thing... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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M4J0R T0M
04-19-2010, 20:10
I know the title leaves you hanging a little bit, so I'll clear it up right off the bat. I am fairly disappointed with my new 15-22.

After reading a lot of the reviews and groping the rifle at my local shop, I decided that I "needed" one. I thought I was fortunate to find the new Magpul version with threaded barrel for $489. I snatched her up and brought her home.

I got to the range just a couple days later to test her out. I had really been anxious to shoot it considering how much fun I have with the 10-22. That is where my disappointment started. Admittedly, I didn't clean it before I took it to the range the first time, I wanted to see if it would make a difference. So I loaded up my mag with some CCI mini mags and had a FTE after the six or seventh shot. Then two more in that mag. That was the only recommended ammo I had on hand, but not the only ammo. So I proceeded to try to the other brands, which were, Federal bulk, Winchester bulk, Rem Thunderbolts, and Federal AutoMatch. All of which had pretty much the same if not worse results. Of all the ammo the AutoMatch and Thunderbolts had the least amount of failures. On average I was having a stovepipe or FTE on every fourth or fifth shot. Except for the Winchester bulk, which was almost every other shot and several time back to back shots. Also had several FTF with the Winchester bulk. I also had two open battery discharges. That was the first time I had experienced that, very eye opening. Total round count for the day was between 400-500 rounds.

So, in the true spirit of anyone who chunked down 500 bones on a nice piece of equipment, I remained hopeful. I chalked it up to not cleaning it before hand and the gun needing to be broken in.

I purchased two more mags before my next range visit to rule the mag out as a possibility and picked up several different types and brands of ammo. I cleaned the gun and I just knew the results would be better this time. I picked some of the recommended ammo this time. Aguilla Super Extra and Winchester X high velocity. I also grabbed some Federal Lightning, Rem Yellow Jackets, and Rem Golden bullets. Same results as with all the other ammo. I did clean and inspect the gun very carefully before the second range visit so I know that is not the reason. The extractor looks fine so I'm lost. The last visit also resulted in about 400 rounds downrange. You would think after nearly 1000 rounds the gun would be broken in. :dunno:

I guess she is going to go back to S&W. I hate that! I spent good money on a brand new rifle and immediately the damn thing has to go in for repairs, hopefully their warranty service is prompt and effective. I guess I'll have to use my AR for this upcoming Appleseed.:steamed: That is going to be expensive...

I included a couple pics for your viewing pleasure:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o37/MrPiggy89/DSCN2916.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o37/MrPiggy89/DSCN2915.jpg

notosw
04-19-2010, 20:20
Sorry to hear about your troubles. If I might be so bold, I will suggest some of your issues are related to how you are loading your mags. They are a bit finicky. It chaps me. There is a Youtube video on the "proper" loading procedure. That of course would not explain your OOB. Let us know what S&W does and how they treat you.

M4J0R T0M
04-19-2010, 20:50
Sorry to hear about your troubles. If I might be so bold, I will suggest some of your issues are related to how you are loading your mags. They are a bit finicky. It chaps me. There is a Youtube video on the "proper" loading procedure. That of course would not explain your OOB. Let us know what S&W does and how they treat you.

Yes you may be so bold and I appreciate it, since I did not know this could be an issue. I will have to check that out. Thanks.

toshbar
04-19-2010, 20:51
You don't have an AR already do you?

I went to an Appleseed this past weekend(2nd one for me) and took my 10/22 and 5.45 Saiga.

ANyway, there was a guy there with an AR and a .22lr conversion bolt. He said he got it for $150 and you just take the 5.56 bolt out of the upper, swap in this conversion bolt, and use a conversion magazine. no barrel change necessary.

M4J0R T0M
04-19-2010, 21:07
You don't have an AR already do you?

I went to an Appleseed this past weekend(2nd one for me) and took my 10/22 and 5.45 Saiga.

ANyway, there was a guy there with an AR and a .22lr conversion bolt. He said he got it for $150 and you just take the 5.56 bolt out of the upper, swap in this conversion bolt, and use a conversion magazine. no barrel change necessary.

Yeah, I have one. I got the 15-22 to use for the Appleseed, my daughter is going to use my 10-22. Instead of getting a bolt conversion I would rather spend the money on .233 components and just load up enough ammo for the weekend. I have heard those bolt swaps aren't that accurate and I really want to see what I can do with a reasonably accurate rifle.

How did you like your Saiga for the Appleseed? How well did you qualify, if you don't mind me asking?

RickyD
04-19-2010, 22:34
Sorry to hear about the problems with the rifle but I can assure you that the customer service of S&W has always treated us right.

M4J0R T0M
04-20-2010, 07:12
Sorry to hear about the problems with the rifle but I can assure you that the customer service of S&W has always treated us right.

That's good to hear. I will be calling them today to see what to do. I really like S&W products, my big boy AR is S&W and never a problem. Any new product is bound to have some bugs that need to be worked out from time to time. I guess I got one of those rifles.

DriBak
04-20-2010, 07:37
I like that magpul version, did it come with the magpul BUIS or just the stock? It needs the magpul pistol grip, however, I have heard ot does no fit "flush"
hope the rifle gets repaired.
The threaded version is on my "list" as I have several .22 cans

M4J0R T0M
04-20-2010, 08:22
I like that magpul version, did it come with the magpul BUIS or just the stock? It needs the magpul pistol grip, however, I have heard ot does no fit "flush"
hope the rifle gets repaired.
The threaded version is on my "list" as I have several .22 cans

It only came with the sights. The CTR and Houge were borrowed from it's big brother. The Houge grip, being soft rubber type material is a very nice fit and very comfortable in the hand. I have larger and hands so the palm swell is nice.

Interesting theory about your "list". I was just looking at some cans yesterday and thinking how I "need" to get one since I now have a .22 with a threaded barrel.

John Hatcher
04-20-2010, 08:58
I too just purchased the same firearm. I'm going to the range this weekend with only the recommended ammo. I'll let you know, but you should watch that loading the mags video it is very helpful.

M4J0R T0M
04-20-2010, 09:16
I too just purchased the same firearm. I'm going to the range this weekend with only the recommended ammo. I'll let you know, but you should watch that loading the mags video it is very helpful.

I watched it last night. I don't know if it's going to help. I check my mags before shooting them to see if the rounds are staggered properly and they are. His video implies that the rounds may not stagger correctly using the assist button. I might have to sneak off to the range this afternoon and try that out. I'm doubtful, but just maybe that's the issue and I won't have to send it in.

toshbar
04-20-2010, 09:18
How did you like your Saiga for the Appleseed? How well did you qualify, if you don't mind me asking?
I had qualified Rifleman on my first Appleseed with my 10/22, so I really didn't try to qualify with my Saiga. I just worked on my skills and technique with my 10/22 on the 25 yard range, and scored a 224/250 on the first AQT we did, one point less than my best score from my first appleseed so I figured my skills were up to par.

After that, I just took my Saiga out to the long range to see what it would do. The long range one goes out to 500 yards. I shot it at 200 and 300 yards. At 200 yards I had a fist sized group using a scope, and at 300 yards it was about as big as an open hand, awesome for an AK type sheet metal rifle if you ask me.

With irons at 200 yards I had a 2 foot diameter group, pointing out that the AK type sights are complete crap. I did hit a 6" gong first shot though, not knowing how far off my irons were going to be.

M4J0R T0M
04-20-2010, 09:32
I had qualified Rifleman on my first Appleseed with my 10/22, so I really didn't try to qualify with my Saiga. I just worked on my skills and technique with my 10/22 on the 25 yard range, and scored a 224/250 on the first AQT we did, one point less than my best score from my first appleseed so I figured my skills were up to par.

After that, I just took my Saiga out to the long range to see what it would do. The long range one goes out to 500 yards. I shot it at 200 and 300 yards. At 200 yards I had a fist sized group using a scope, and at 300 yards it was about as big as an open hand, awesome for an AK type sheet metal rifle if you ask me.

With irons at 200 yards I had a 2 foot diameter group, pointing out that the AK type sights are complete crap. I did hit a 6" gong first shot though, not knowing how far off my irons were going to be.

Sounds awesome. Is it safe to say you enjoy the Appleseed shoots? I am really looking forward to this weekend.

toshbar
04-20-2010, 13:37
Sounds awesome. Is it safe to say you enjoy the Appleseed shoots? I am really looking forward to this weekend.
Very much. both I've gone to were very different. They were at the same range put on by mostly the same instructors but they change it up a bit.

You will have a lot of fun and learn a lot, but leave your ego at the car.

deathpriest
04-20-2010, 14:22
I got me one of these.
Cleaned and lubed before fist date.
Loaded magazines as per manual, one bullet at a time :( Not much fun.
Digested everything I fed it.

Good Luck

venenoindy
04-20-2010, 15:16
I would recomend to use the ammo that works for most of us, Federal 550rdn and CCI Minimags. I have had some other .22LR rifles like Colt, Sig522 and onces I found the ammo and the mag deal the S&W IMO is the best out of the three.

WUSSCVR
04-20-2010, 16:38
Sorry to hear about your troubles, I know how much it hurts when your expectations are let down. That being said, maybe you just got a lemon and I am sure S&W will help out.

I dont want to rub salt in wounds but I have been extremely happy with mine. So far, I have 600 rounds down range, out of six different mags and mostly Federal Bulk Pack, with no hiccups what so ever. Hope you get yours figured out and keep us up to date.:wavey:

M4J0R T0M
04-20-2010, 17:22
Sorry to hear about your troubles, I know how much it hurts when your expectations are let down. That being said, maybe you just got a lemon and I am sure S&W will help out.

I dont want to rub salt in wounds but I have been extremely happy with mine. So far, I have 600 rounds down range, out of six different mags and mostly Federal Bulk Pack, with no hiccups what so ever. Hope you get yours figured out and keep us up to date.:wavey:

Picked up another one of the recommended ammos on the list, Federal Gameshock, that makes four types of Federal now. I shot fifty of those, fifty Aguila Super Extras, twenty five Mini-Mags, and fifty Thunderbolts. The Thunderbolts are the still the most reliable of all the ammo I have tried, and they are on the do not recommend list.

I joined the S&W forum and found out that the two mags I bought are first gen and the mag that came with the gun is second gen. I have noticed a little bit better performance from the second gen mag, but it still has problems. I also followed the loading method without using the assist button and that did not to improve the reliability.

Stovepipeing is the most common issue, sometimes it won't even cycle the bolt back far enough to cock the hammer. At least I have not had any OOB discharges in the last two range trips. I think it's safe to say the there is a problem with the gun. So I'll be calling S&W tomorrow to see what they say.

So any of you have any experience on Smith's turn around time?

Glocks&Ducs
04-20-2010, 21:18
It sounds like you may have just got a bad one. I only recall one or two times where my rifle failed to load a round from the magazine, and I attribute that to the low powered, inconsistent ammo I was using. Aside from that, and one or two light primer strikes, again can't rule out the ammo, mine has run perfectly with somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 rounds through it.

M4J0R T0M
05-10-2010, 14:36
Well guys, just got my rifle back. I shipped it off on 4-27 and just got it back today, 5-10. Right at two weeks including transit time, not to bad. They included a copy of the repair order that stated:

Replaced springs as needed.

Replace magazine.

Update to newest specs.

My gun is a Talo Edition serial DTX but still had the old springs and specs so they updated everything. The best part is how they handled my only request. I included all three of my magazines of which only one was a 2nd gen. My request was to replace the 1st gen mags with new ones and to include a fourth mag for the inconvenience. Honestly, I wasn't expecting to get the fourth mag and wouldn't have been disappointed if I didn't. But, low and behold, when I open the box there they were, four 2nd gen magazines. I am very pleased with my experience concerning S&W's warranty service and now I'm off to the range to see if she will shoot. I happen to have a box of Fed bulk in the truck so we'll see if it'll run.

GSSF17
05-10-2010, 18:09
Well guys, just got my rifle back. I shipped it off on 4-27 and just got it back today, 5-10. Right at two weeks including transit time, not to bad. They included a copy of the repair order that stated:

Replaced springs as needed.

Replace magazine.

Update to newest specs.

My gun is a Talo Edition serial DTX but still had the old springs and specs so they updated everything. The best part is how they handled my only request. I included all three of my magazines of which only one was a 2nd gen. My request was to replace the 1st gen mags with new ones and to include a fourth mag for the inconvenience. Honestly, I wasn't expecting to get the fourth mag and wouldn't have been disappointed if I didn't. But, low and behold, when I open the box there they were, four 2nd gen magazines. I am very pleased with my experience concerning S&W's warranty service and now I'm off to the range to see if she will shoot. I happen to have a box of Fed bulk in the truck so we'll see if it'll run.

Great!

Yep, their service is top notch.

Let us know how she ran. I have (both) mine eating Fed 550 and Win 333 bulk like candy.

Good luck......

M4J0R T0M
05-10-2010, 19:15
Great!

Yep, their service is top notch.

Let us know how she ran. I have (both) mine eating Fed 550 and Win 333 bulk like candy.

Good luck......

She ran like a scalded dog! I put it through a torture test of sorts. I shot 300 rounds of Fed bulk as fast as I could load and empty the mags. I would load all four mags and shoot them as fast as I could. Some of the people at the range were looking at me with a weird look on their faces. I know they were thinking what a waste of ammo but I wanted to see if I could get to malfunction, no luck. It functioned 100%, not a single failure. I am so pleased right now. This could end up being my favorite shooter!

randyr5
05-12-2010, 06:09
She ran like a scalded dog! I put it through a torture test of sorts. I shot 300 rounds of Fed bulk as fast as I could load and empty the mags. I would load all four mags and shoot them as fast as I could. Some of the people at the range were looking at me with a weird look on their faces. I know they were thinking what a waste of ammo but I wanted to see if I could get to malfunction, no luck. It functioned 100%, not a single failure. I am so pleased right now. This could end up being my favorite shooter!

That's great news. 15-22 is on my short list yo go along with my 10/22.

Generalcarry
05-14-2010, 16:08
When I bought mine, I had 2 people (and the manual) emphasize cleaning this rifle before firing it. The inside was filthy and I bet if you look at yours and use a q-tip between the gaps in the barrel shroud, you'll find the same rust retardant on the barrel that was inside your rifle. Just saying.

bklynpete
05-14-2010, 16:25
Boy am I glad everything worked out with your S&W 22. I just posted about it just yesterday that I was interested in one. I handled one today, along with the pistol version, both were very cool. I'm glad S&W stood behind their product, and that you are very happy with it.

Pete

John Hatcher
05-14-2010, 17:30
Yeah glad to hear everything work out. I have yet to get to the range with mine...lol.

Generalcarry
05-15-2010, 05:45
I took mine out yesterday for the first time. I loaded up 5 magazines. I used the first 25 just to see how it felt, the second 25 to sight in and the last 25 to rapid fire. At 25 yards, ~ 20 seconds to empty the mag, I could completely cover all but 5 of the holes with my thumb. For me, that's freaking unbelievable. My mind is now in rifle mode.

My only problem was 2 FTF's that I will blame on the mags, or how I loaded them. The 25th cartridge in each mag sometimes angeled up and a couple laid flat.

M4J0R T0M
05-16-2010, 19:46
I took mine out yesterday for the first time. I loaded up 5 magazines. I used the first 25 just to see how it felt, the second 25 to sight in and the last 25 to rapid fire. At 25 yards, ~ 20 seconds to empty the mag, I could completely cover all but 5 of the holes with my thumb. For me, that's freaking unbelievable. My mind is now in rifle mode.

My only problem was 2 FTF's that I will blame on the mags, or how I loaded them. The 25th cartridge in each mag sometimes angeled up and a couple laid flat.

That's only three magazines, lol. I really like mine now that the problems are worked out. We went shooting yesterday and my friend's dad's land. We had all kinds of guns there, from pistols, to match rifles, to flintlocks, to AR's, and shot guns. Guess which one was the most popular, my 15-22. It's just so much fun to wring out a couple hundred rounds real quick. Now, somebody just needs to make a speed loader for the mags and I'll be all set.

Generalcarry
05-17-2010, 03:58
That's only three magazines, lol. I really like mine now that the problems are worked out. We went shooting yesterday and my friend's dad's land. We had all kinds of guns there, from pistols, to match rifles, to flintlocks, to AR's, and shot guns. Guess which one was the most popular, my 15-22. It's just so much fun to wring out a couple hundred rounds real quick. Now, somebody just needs to make a speed loader for the mags and I'll be all set.

I'll be honest here, but just between you and I. We rent our clubs range to many local Police Departments and Selfridge Air Base. Five swat guys showed up when I was shooting my 3rd magazine and were behind me. I figured I may never do that well again so I packed up, like I shoot like this every time, chatted a bit and left.
I'm retired so I'll be going back this morning to see how well I do.....again.:embarassed:

bklynpete
05-17-2010, 10:16
I took mine out yesterday for the first time. I loaded up 5 magazines. I used the first 25 just to see how it felt, the second 25 to sight in and the last 25 to rapid fire. At 25 yards, ~ 20 seconds to empty the mag, I could completely cover all but 5 of the holes with my thumb. For me, that's freaking unbelievable. My mind is now in rifle mode.

My only problem was 2 FTF's that I will blame on the mags, or how I loaded them. The 25th cartridge in each mag sometimes angeled up and a couple laid flat.


Just out of curiousity, how were you shooting? From a bench rest? Dot, scope or iron sights? If you are shooting off hand, with iron sights @ 25 years, that's outstanding shooting. If it's from a bench rest with a dot sight, then it's an outstanding weapon.

Pete

M4J0R T0M
05-17-2010, 17:35
Just out of curiousity, how were you shooting? From a bench rest? Dot, scope or iron sights? If you are shooting off hand, with iron sights @ 25 years, that's outstanding shooting. If it's from a bench rest with a dot sight, then it's an outstanding weapon.

Pete

I was thinking the same thing.

GSSF17
05-17-2010, 18:38
I was thinking the same thing.

Last weekend I ran through nearly 2 Federal 550 bulk packs in my threaded barrel model- YES- 1000+ rounds, with only 3 malfunctions. I attibuted the first one to the ammo, and the next two were in the 700+ round mark. I attributed those to a dirty weapon.

The accurracy is incredible. I can shoot 20 round groups all day in the size of a quarter at 50 yards with a cheapy Leapers 4 X 32 mil-dot scope.

I will put it to you this way: I have never shot so well with bulk rimfire ammo as I do in my M&P 15-22s. Period. Glad you guys are having the same good luck, and happy to hear you got your problem solved, Major.:thumbsup:

M4J0R T0M
05-17-2010, 21:20
Glad you guys are having the same good luck, and happy to hear you got your problem solved, Major.:thumbsup:

Thanks man. I am very pleased with my rifle. It just runs.

bklynpete
05-18-2010, 09:28
Last weekend I ran through nearly 2 Federal 550 bulk packs in my threaded barrel model- YES- 1000+ rounds, with only 3 malfunctions. I attibuted the first one to the ammo, and the next two were in the 700+ round mark. I attributed those to a dirty weapon.

The accurracy is incredible. I can shoot 20 round groups all day in the size of a quarter at 50 yards with a cheapy Leapers 4 X 32 mil-dot scope.

I will put it to you this way: I have never shot so well with bulk rimfire ammo as I do in my M&P 15-22s. Period. Glad you guys are having the same good luck, and happy to hear you got your problem solved, Major.:thumbsup:

I guess I'll have to run over to Walmarts to get some Federal bulk packs. I have some Eley, Blazer and CCI mini mags to try out also. Lets see how I do with the stock open sights...

Pete

Generalcarry
05-18-2010, 10:43
Just out of curiousity, how were you shooting? From a bench rest? Dot, scope or iron sights? If you are shooting off hand, with iron sights @ 25 years, that's outstanding shooting. If it's from a bench rest with a dot sight, then it's an outstanding weapon.

Pete


It was the first 75 rounds ever fired through through that rifle. Stock peep sight using a bench rest with CCI MiniMags.