Hi-Skor 800X my first receipe.... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Kwesi
04-21-2010, 19:46
After a little research on the web and a few reloading manuals I found some real variables for 180 gr FMJ - 10mm as follows:

1. start 8.7 max 9.7
2. start 8.7 max 8.7?
3. start 6.4 max 10.1

I decided to start at 8.5 grains. Loading on a Dillon 550. I checked several drops and found them ranging from 8.3 up to 9.0. I've read many of your posts about how poorly it meters. I called Dillon earlier and was told that it should not meter poorly...

steve4102
04-21-2010, 20:37
I called Dillon earlier and was told that it should not meter poorly...

The guy or gal you talked to at Dillon was mistaken, or ignorant. 800X meters like Tortilla Chips and loads should be individually weighed.

GLShooter
04-22-2010, 12:23
The guy or gal you talked to at Dillon was mistaken, or ignorant. 800X meters like Tortilla Chips and loads should be individually weighed.

:rofl:

I have used my Uniflo for most of that big flake powder. Some Dillon measures will do fine some don't. I have one that WILL NOT load AA2200 without jamming it tight as a tick. I have another that loads it like running water!! (I marked that one!! :cool:)


Greg

Kwesi
04-22-2010, 12:42
Why are the manuals so different?

GLShooter
04-22-2010, 14:09
Why are the manuals so different?

Several factors influence the manuals. her are a few that can cause alteration of the results in no particular order of importance.

Variation in components, brass, primers and lot to lot powders. Not everyone tests with the same brand of bullets and they can cause big pressure differences because of their shape. A hot primer lot and a slow powder lot might be different than another group of components.

Different barrel Lents. Chamber size, tighter chambers seem to have higher pressures. Amount of leade/free bore in the barrel. Wear characteristics as in rounds fired may make a difference.

Did they use a pressure barrel or an actual rifle? Different tolerances, minimum vs maximum at times. On pistol cartridges did they use pressure barrel or a genuine revolver that has a gap?

Believe it or not, the SAME ammo fired on a DIFFERENT day may register different pressures.

As you can see their can be many influencing factors. Even the amount of neck tension comes in to play at times.

Greg

Kwesi
04-22-2010, 14:35
Several factors influence the manuals. her are a few that can cause alteration of the results in no particular order of importance.

Variation in components, brass, primers and lot to lot powders. Not everyone tests with the same brand of bullets and they can cause big pressure differences because of their shape. A hot primer lot and a slow powder lot might be different than another group of components.

Different barrel Lents. Chamber size, tighter chambers seem to have higher pressures. Amount of leade/free bore in the barrel. Wear characteristics as in rounds fired may make a difference.

Did they use a pressure barrel or an actual rifle? Different tolerances, minimum vs maximum at times. On pistol cartridges did they use pressure barrel or a genuine revolver that has a gap?

Believe it or not, the SAME ammo fired on a DIFFERENT day may register different pressures.

As you can see their can be many influencing factors. Even the amount of neck tension comes in to play at times.

Greg

Wow! I have xtra concern, possibly too much, because I shoot most of these rounds full auto and out of a longer barrel than the test guns.

GLShooter
04-22-2010, 15:54
Wow! I have xtra concern, possibly too much, because I shoot most of these rounds full auto and out of a longer barrel than the test guns.

I wouldn't be overly concerned as long as you are inside the guidelines for the books. The full auto thing adds a different twist. Is it a closed or open bolt gun? Pressure will show up differently on them. You would tend to see bulging cases more quickly from an open bolt gun like the Thompson.

The longer barrel is going to normally give you higher velocities. The pressure does not really change that much with barrel length. For instance the same ammo in my 20" UM will go 3200 but in my 10" XM177 will only run 2650. Same pressure load just more barrel to allow for powder burning.

Also, the throat will gradually erode out and this will lower the pressures. The long range rifle guys will bump their powder as this happens so they can keep that sweet spot on their velocity numbers for accuracy. They also will chase the lands if they can.

Greg

Kwesi
04-22-2010, 20:45
I wouldn't be overly concerned as long as you are inside the guidelines for the books. The full auto thing adds a different twist. Is it a closed or open bolt gun?
Greg

Greg: these are closed bolt.

GLShooter
04-23-2010, 09:50
Greg: these are closed bolt.

In that case I would say that staying in publiished guidelines you are well within the operating parameters. I have always preferred the closed bolt guns but the open bolts do have a certain "style" about them. :cool:

Greg

Kwesi
04-23-2010, 10:46
In that case I would say that staying in publiished guidelines you are well within the operating parameters. I have always preferred the closed bolt guns but the open bolts do have a certain "style" about them. :cool:

Greg

My buddy has a Mac10 in 45 acp full auto and it's open bolt. He's added a few accessories that make it much more fun to shoot & surpringly quite accurate in short bursts at 7 yards!

Kwesi
04-24-2010, 21:00
In that case I would say that staying in publiished guidelines you are well within the operating parameters. I have always preferred the closed bolt guns but the open bolts do have a certain "style" about them. :cool:

Greg

Went to the range today and had no problems with the Wolf primers. The
10mm was loaded with the 800X & 180 gr FMJ from Precision Delta + virgin Star Line brass. Note: I did have 3 split cases though! I had the same thing a few months ago using factory Georgia Arms Canned Heat fired in the same gun (Coharie CA89-10 full auto ).

I also tried some 9mm using WSF 5.0 with 115 gr FMJ (Precision Delta) with used brass and Wolf primers. Again no problem with the Wolf primers. This load seemed to be shooting a bit high though out of my G17 or maybe it was my eyes.

GLShooter
04-25-2010, 13:12
Went to the range today and had no problems with the Wolf primers. The
10mm was loaded with the 800X & 180 gr FMJ from Precision Delta + virgin Star Line brass. Note: I did have 3 split cases though! I had the same thing a few months ago using factory Georgia Arms Canned Heat fired in the same gun (Coharie CA89-10 full auto ).

I also tried some 9mm using WSF 5.0 with 115 gr FMJ (Precision Delta) with used brass and Wolf primers. Again no problem with the Wolf primers. This load seemed to be shooting a bit high though out of my G17 or maybe it was my eyes.

What were you shooting that was spliting the cases? I have seen this in 10 MM HK subguns in the past with fluted chambers.

Greg

fredj338
04-25-2010, 14:42
The guy or gal you talked to at Dillon was mistaken, or ignorant. 800X meters like Tortilla Chips and loads should be individually weighed.

I have to agree. I'm not sure who you talked to but 800X measures very poorly in any measure. I get as much as 0.3gr deviation from charge to charge. THis doesn't do much for accuracy. Try Longshot for upper end 10mm loads.
SPlit cases on new brass? How do they look after firing? Sounds like you may have a slightly oversize chamber?

Kwesi
04-26-2010, 08:35
The split is a vertical line 5/16" - 6/16" about the middle of the case. My MP5 clone has the fluted chamber.

I don't plan on getting any more 800X. I've had good results with A#7, LS & Power Pistol.

Patrick Graham
04-26-2010, 08:47
I have to agree. I'm not sure who you talked to but 800X measures very poorly in any measure. I get as much as 0.3gr deviation from charge to charge. ......................

Same here.

I tried to use 800x back in the 80s for shotgun when I couldn't get any 700x. It didn't meter well in my MEC shotshell loader but it worked. As soon as I could find more 700x I stopped using 800x.

I the 90s I tried to use up the 800x I had left for 45acp. It metered even worse in my Dillon RL550.

GLShooter
04-26-2010, 11:13
Same here.

I tried to use 800x back in the 80s for shotgun when I couldn't get any 700x. It didn't meter well in my MEC shotshell loader but it worked. As soon as I could find more 700x I stopped using 800x.

I the 90s I tried to use up the 800x I had left for 45acp. It metered even worse in my Dillon RL550.

Those fluted Chambers in 10 MM really eat the brass. The FBI here runs them and I see about 20% of the cases have splits on the factory brass. What a pisser for a reloader!!!

I use 700X in my sporting clays stuff. I have used it in pistol (45 ACP) but that was before I got into shotguns heavily and really started using it up.

Greg

Kwesi
04-26-2010, 14:11
Those fluted Chambers in 10 MM really eat the brass. The FBI here runs them and I see about 20% of the cases have splits on the factory brass. What a pisser for a reloader!!!

I use 700X in my sporting clays stuff. I have used it in pistol (45 ACP) but that was before I got into shotguns heavily and really started using it up.

Greg

Greg: If the FBI is having the same problem in a factory HK then I feel better, at least I only had 3-4% start to split. I picked up an brass catcher from E&L Manufacturing so I do leave with all my brass! Prior to that I would lose 25% down range. She spits it out at about 2:00 and 15 ft away. The catcher is made out of molded plastic and looks pretty cool - kinda like a belt fed box. Net net I'm ahead.

Is it easy to post a photo?

GLShooter
04-26-2010, 15:50
QUOTE=Kwesi;15191355]Greg: If the FBI is having the same problem in a factory HK then I feel better, at least I only had 3-4% start to split. I picked up an brass catcher from E&L Manufacturing so I do leave with all my brass! Prior to that I would lose 25% down range. She spits it out at about 2:00 and 15 ft away. The catcher is made out of molded plastic and looks pretty cool - kinda like a belt fed box. Net net I'm ahead.

Is it easy to post a photo?[/QUOTE]

Not too hard: http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj42/GLShooter/25%20WSSM/DSC01847.jpg

If you use Photobucket. Just click on the insert image deal on top of the reply and then just paste the direct link.

The HK's are ultra-reliable and the fluted chamber lets them run forever under tough conditions. Real world governments don't reload so they could care less about the brass condition when it hits the ground.

Greg