10mm auto, what am i doing wrong here? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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mikecurnow
04-22-2010, 08:35
I made 50 hollow point rounds last night. New winchester brass, remington 180 grain hollow points.
LEE single stage press, with RCBS dies.
This is happening when inserting/crimping. most of the rounds looked fine but about 5 came out looking like this. The pics are of the worst one. I'm very new at this so any help would be great.

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo293/shaharidan/Picture001.jpg

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo293/shaharidan/Picture002.jpg
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NW-Warlord
04-22-2010, 08:39
Is this the RCBS combo seat/crimp die? If so you have to back the die out a little further while seating the bullet, then take the die back down for the crimp. I have had this problem with RCBS rifle dies. I only use Dillon and Lee die sets now. Good luck.

SFCSMITH(RET)
04-22-2010, 08:40
Never loaded new brass,, but my guess is your case mouth isn't opened enough, but it's hard to tell from the picture, usually I get a torn lip kind of deal when that happens. I have seen some bullets come out with an outline of the projectile that was caused by the bullet being a thousandth or two large and the case wall thickness the same.. chambered and shot fine.. But it could also be a seating depth problem, those 5 cartridges were just a bit longer then the others.. did you mic them first? Again having never worked with new brass, I don't know if this can be a problem or not. Is the OAL length the same for all the loaded ammo? didn't short stroke it 45 times? (lol, doubtful, but hey S#$& happens)

mikecurnow
04-22-2010, 08:42
OK thanks. it seemed odd that it didn't happen with all the rounds.
also, and this is probably a stupid question, I'm guessing the brass is no good now?
Thanks again.

XDRoX
04-22-2010, 09:14
OK thanks. it seemed odd that it didn't happen with all the rounds.
also, and this is probably a stupid question, I'm guessing the brass is no good now?
Thanks again.

That happened to a couple 45 cases I had do to me improperly adjusting the seating/crimping die. I tried to resize them but the dent would not come out so I threw them away. So you'll probably have to trash them, but might as well try to save them.

Colorado4Wheel
04-22-2010, 09:45
That looks like classic over crimping with a roll crimp die to me.

mikecurnow
04-22-2010, 09:50
That looks like classic over crimping with a roll crimp die to me.

So I have the die screwed into the press too far?
Wouldn't it over crimp all the rounds? or maybe my press just isn't good enough for consistency? So most are fine but 10% get over crimped?

asking lot's of questions because i'm new to this, and it's the first time I've had this problem.
Thanks
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HOV
04-22-2010, 09:50
Describe the procedure you used for setting up the seater/crimp die.

mikecurnow
04-22-2010, 09:59
the instructions say to put in a shell push the handle all the way down so the shell is in the upper most position, then screw the die in till you can feel it hit the shell. Then i think you were supposed to back it off some, but i was never able to feel it touching the shell.
so i got to where it seemed like i was getting close, and made a dummy round. then screwed it in a little more and tried again, until i had it set for the right crimp and the bullet was in far enough.

XDRoX
04-22-2010, 10:02
So I have the die screwed into the press too far?
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Yes, like Steve said my 45 cases did this when I over crimped. In my case, some of them turned out fine as well.
The deciding factor on whether they were going to come out fine or get destroyed was how straight I set the bullet in the case before I seated/crimped it. If I got the bullet nice and straight, then it worked fine. If I set the bullet in crooked the extra stress caused your problem. I just backed off a little (crimp) and it fixed the problem.

mikecurnow
04-22-2010, 11:55
Thanks again for all the help.

D. Manley
04-22-2010, 14:17
Thanks again for all the help.

I might add that the Remington GS bullet is likely compounding the problem. The "driving band" design of the bullet may not be conducive to easily seating/crimping in a single step. If you can't adjust the problem out satisfactorily I'd try a conventional bullet design and if that fails, just go to a 4-die set with separate seating/crimping dies.

_The_Shadow
04-22-2010, 19:31
People, people, people...if you want quality 100% reliable hadloaded ammunition for semiauto pistols do yourself a favor seat bullets to depth without any crimp being applied, then taper crimp to remove the flair or secure the bullet in a seperate step. It is that simple! There are spacer rings which can be utilized to raise the seater die up to avoid the crimp application...Redding still makes these and Midway USA still sells them...http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=189290

One ther thing those who are utilizing used brass especiall 40S&W invest in a push thru sizer die like the Lee or Redding, this will insure that you are getting a full sizing of the brass...to many bulged cases near the extractor cut. If not sized all the way your cartridge may not pass a cartridge gauge test.

That is all, carry on! Be safe and do it right!

GioaJack
04-22-2010, 19:45
People, people, people...if you want quality 100% reliable hadloaded ammunition for semiauto pistols do yourself a favor seat bullets to depth without any crimp being applied, then taper crimp to remove the flair or secure the bullet in a seperate step. It is that simple! There are spacer rings which can be utilized to raise the seater die up to avoid the crimp application...Redding still makes these and Midway USA still sells them...http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=189290

One ther thing those who are utilizing used brass especiall 40S&W invest in a push thru sizer die like the Lee or Redding, this will insure that you are getting a full sizing of the brass...to many bulged cases near the extractor cut. If not sized all the way your cartridge may not pass a cartridge gauge test.

That is all, carry on! Be safe and do it right!



Hey Fred... do you want me to include all your semis in my for sale ad? We might as well get rid of 'em... turns out we've been doing it wrong all these decades. :supergrin:

Jack

mikecurnow
04-22-2010, 22:14
Using a combination of the advice given i was able to make another 50 rounds without issue.
as D. Manley (http://glocktalk.com/forums/member.php?u=46439) said I think the problem was the remington bullets in combination with the single step seat/crimp. I switched to winchester fmj's after I finished off the remingtons, and didn't have any issues at all.

Thanks again everyone.

DEADLYACCURATE
04-24-2010, 11:10
Hey Fred... do you want me to include all your semis in my for sale ad? We might as well get rid of 'em... turns out we've been doing it wrong all these decades. :supergrin:

Jack

:supergrin:

BK63
04-24-2010, 18:11
I prefer with autos and taper crimp to use a seperate taper crimp die. Seat and then taper crimp in the 4th stage, but thats just me. I never have much luck taper crimping in the same die with auto stuff. I only seat and crimp with the same die with revolver/roll crimp stuff.