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robin303
04-23-2010, 15:30
1. I bought some Clays powder and in several of my books they call it this:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Clays<o:p></o:p>
Universal Clays<o:p></o:p>
Universal Hodgdon<o:p></o:p>
My question is Iím assuming when they say Universal Hodgdon they mean Clays. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
2. Ok I have the Dillon Scale and once I zero it in and use it in just a hundred rounds or so I am concerned and amazed how out of adjustment it is. Iím talking about several turns to readjust. Is it humidity and maybe temperature.

Thanks as always.<o:p></o:p>

WiskyT
04-23-2010, 15:33
NO!! There is "Clays" and "Universal Clays" which is now called "Universal".

Get that wrong and we pull you through the little hole on the side.

srd
04-23-2010, 17:11
As WT stated they are not the same and luckily you were smart enough to ask first. When you assume thats when things can go boom and not in a good way. Your scale can very due to temp, humidty and not being level.

GioaJack
04-23-2010, 17:58
HA!!!!! Wisky forgot the third Clays... International Clays! About the only thing it's really good for is 20 gauge shotgun... excellent for that.

Now, remember, don't confuse Clays with International Clays or Universal Clays or Universal Clays or Clays with International Clays or Universal Clays with Clays or International Clays.

Got it? Glad I could clear that up for ya. :whistling:

(Screw it, just use Unique.)

Jack

dudel
04-23-2010, 17:59
1) NO. Different Clays. IIRC there are three (3) different Clays with similar names. Bad move on their part.

2) Any wind currents or draft near the scale? Is the platform stable; or is it the table that's shaking from the press? Keep your scale off the same table as the press.

njl
04-23-2010, 18:20
Clays = Clays (relatively fast powder)
Universal = Universal Clays = Hodgdon Universal (medium speed powder)
International Clays = the one nobody ever talks about or uses much

Universal was supposedly so named because it's more or less usable for a very wide range of hangun calibers. It works best at higher pressures.

What caliber are you planning to load with Clays? Its a popular powder for mild .45acp loads.

If you use Clays powder with data meant for Universal, you'll likely blow something up.

robin303
04-23-2010, 18:30
LOL Thanks guys and I knew Jack would make it clear on my clay problem.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The scale is level and not in a draft and rock solid. My guess it is the variation of temps that because I have not yet put the AC on. <o:p></o:p>

robin303
04-23-2010, 18:39
Clays = Clays (relatively fast powder)
Universal = Universal Clays = Hodgdon Universal (medium speed powder)
International Clays = the one nobody ever talks about or uses much

Universal was supposedly so named because it's more or less usable for a very wide range of hangun calibers. It works best at higher pressures.

What caliber are you planning to load with Clays? Its a popular powder for mild .45acp loads.

If you use Clays powder with data meant for Universal, you'll likely blow something up.

Tested it out yesterday on 115 from 4.0 thru 4.5 and 124 3.7 thru 3.9.
Was real happy with 4.4 & 4.5 with the 115 and 3.8 & 3.9 with the 124 with all with a OAL of 1.135. Like this powder a lot due to great groupings and less recoil. I want to try it out next with the 155 40S&W

I made sure I loaded with the Clays data but bewildered with Universal.:embarassed:

njl
04-23-2010, 18:58
Tested it out yesterday on 115 from 4.0 thru 4.5 and 124 3.7 thru 3.9.
Was real happy with 4.4 & 4.5 with the 115 and 3.8 & 3.9 with the 124 with all with a OAL of 1.135. Like this powder a lot due to great groupings and less recoil. I want to try it out next with the 155 40S&W

I made sure I loaded with the Clays data but bewildered with Universal.:embarassed:

I assume those were jacketed bullets. Did you chrono those loads or just shoot them for feel? I've been loading 124gr 9mm with Universal...but just bought some Clays after learning first hand that Universal kind of sucks for mild .45acp.

robin303
04-23-2010, 19:08
I assume those were jacketed bullets. Did you chrono those loads or just shoot them for feel? I've been loading 124gr 9mm with Universal...but just bought some Clays after learning first hand that Universal kind of sucks for mild .45acp.

I started from the start loads and worked my way up. Even the loads at 4.0 cycled real well but I can tell by how the brass was landing that they were weak and by the recoil. Two landed in my top pocket of my T-shirt. :rofl:

njl
04-23-2010, 19:23
That just saves you the effort of looking for them and picking them up off the ground.

D. Manley
04-23-2010, 19:51
I started from the start loads and worked my way up. Even the loads at 4.0 cycled real well but I can tell by how the brass was landing that they were weak and by the recoil. Two landed in my top pocket of my T-shirt. :rofl:

Don't be misled by "feel"...Clays is very, very, fast and will "feel soft" up til' the point bad things happen. Never push the limits with Clays...it is not a very linear burning powder and can / will spike without warning.

Colorado4Wheel
04-23-2010, 20:51
. Ok I have the Dillon Scale and once I zero it in and use it in just a hundred rounds or so I am concerned and amazed how out of adjustment it is. Iím talking about several turns to readjust. Is it humidity and maybe temperature.

Not sure what that is about. It shouldn't do that. Be sure that you have no breeze. That you are looking at it straight on. Be sure the poises are square in the notchs. Be real sure it's not moving as you use it. Don't tolerate a scale that doesn't hold it's zero. Mine is zipped tied in place so it can't move. It's set at eye level as well.

robin303
04-23-2010, 21:51
Don't be misled by "feel"...Clays is very, very, fast and will "feel soft" up til' the point bad things happen. Never push the limits with Clays...it is not a very linear burning powder and can / will spike without warning.

The data on Clays is odd for a powder that has been out since 92. I have yet to find data anywhere for 9mm 147 gn.

robin303
04-23-2010, 21:54
Not sure what that is about. It shouldn't do that. Be sure that you have no breeze. That you are looking at it straight on. Be sure the poises are square in the notchs. Be real sure it's not moving as you use it. Don't tolerate a scale that doesn't hold it's zero. Mine is zipped tied in place so it can't move. It's set at eye level as well.

I don't know Steve. Don't have it locked down and almost eye level but it sure beats what I used to have.

D. Manley
04-23-2010, 22:22
The data on Clays is odd for a powder that has been out since 92. I have yet to find data anywhere for 9mm 147 gn.

There's a reason for that too but you can find a good deal of Clays data over at Brian Enos forums with a little searching. Most who use it run 3.0 to 3.3 under 147 grain jacketed....this will be a pretty full case, BTW. I personally dislike clays in 9MM but find it superb for light loads in .45 ACP with 230 grain bullets. I'd recommend you do all the research you can and be cautious with Clays...it is soft & clean but for the amount of shooters using it the blown case ratio is pretty high. I'd suggest you shoot Hodgdon an email with any specific request if you're unsure.

fredj338
04-24-2010, 19:51
There's a reason for that too but you can find a good deal of Clays data over at Brian Enos forums with a little searching. Most who use it run 3.0 to 3.3 under 147 grain jacketed....this will be a pretty full case, BTW. I personally dislike clays in 9MM but find it superb for light loads in .45 ACP with 230 grain bullets. I'd recommend you do all the research you can and be cautious with Clays...it is soft & clean but for the amount of shooters using it the blown case ratio is pretty high. I'd suggest you shoot Hodgdon an email with any specific request if you're unsure.
Really good advice. Clays gets wierd very quickly as you approach the top end. Not uncommom to get nice pressure spikes. I woun't use it in 9mm, don't even really like it in 45acp but it does do ok w/ light target loads. You are correct never to assume anything when it comes to reloading & especially w/ powder data.

Colorado4Wheel
04-24-2010, 20:04
I don't know Steve. Don't have it locked down and almost eye level but it sure beats what I used to have.

There is no reason for it to change if it hasn't moved and it's not in a breeze. You need to figure out why it's changing.