New sights installed ... Am I overreacting? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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s0nspark
04-23-2010, 19:20
I just bought a new S&W M&P9C and took it to a local shop to have the gunsmith install a set of Ameriglo Pro Operator sights. When I picked it up today the smith told me he had a hard time getting the front sight on and, even though he was using a brass punch, the sight got "beat up"... At the time it just looked scuffed so I wasn't really concerned about it.

However, once I got it home and was disassembling the pistol to upgrade the sear, I got to looking at the damage closer and notice that it really is beat up. I am quite unhappy with the work and after taking pictures to attach I got even madder once I saw the situation in hi-res :-(

I'll admit, I tend to be picky... so I may be blowing it out of proportion, but this just seems like really poor work to me. I wonder if I will have rust issues as a result... Thoughts? Do you think I have grounds to get them to replace the front sight? (As in, buy me a replacement - I won't have them work on my guns any more after this!)

porkchop817
04-23-2010, 19:30
As a non gunsmith, with little to no gunsmithing experience...I've installed aftermarket sites on my pistols myself, and never had any come out that looked like that.

The Gunsmith should have atleast offered to give you your money back, or something...that work is nothing to be proud of.

Brian Lee
04-23-2010, 19:39
In my opinion, by his own admission the "gunsmith" was using the wrong tool for the job, and this is TERRIBLE work. He should replace this beat up POS that he just scrapped for you. If a gunsmith does not have the proper sight pusher so that he can do the job without ruining a sight like this, then he should say so, and refer you to someone else.

Let this be a lesson to those who think a hammer and punch is OK to use as a sight pusher. While it's true that on some lucky occasions, you'll get a looser fitting one that drives in easily, on other occasions you'll get a sight that fits tighter and only a proper sight pusher can do the job without getting a bad result like this. This is what I'd expect of a do-it-yourself-er with no tools. From someone who claims to be a gunsmith, this is totally unacceptable.

j-glock22
04-23-2010, 20:00
Yikes! I made a mistake of having a set of NS installed on one of my Glocks at GM... took them over an hour to get it done. Luckely they were calibrated correctly and looked good, but dang man.....
Hope you kept your receipt.

Wash-ar15
04-23-2010, 21:26
This is why I pay for a site pusher for both my Glocks and MP. The front site of Mp's are notorious for being tight.

Did yo buy the site there? If you did,I would complain and ask for a new set. If you did not, tell them you dissatisfaction with the install and see what they say. or you can buy a new front site only and have a person with a pusher install it.

what state are you in?

jj40
04-23-2010, 21:30
Take it back, get a refund and if any damage was done to the slide make them take the responsability to repair it.

JohnKSa
04-23-2010, 21:53
I agree with you that I wouldn't let them touch my gun again.

They need to refund the money and buy you a new front sight.

s0nspark
04-24-2010, 01:11
This is why I pay for a site pusher for both my Glocks and MP. The front site of Mp's are notorious for being tight.

Did yo buy the site there? If you did,I would complain and ask for a new set. If you did not, tell them you dissatisfaction with the install and see what they say. or you can buy a new front site only and have a person with a pusher install it.

what state are you in?

I'm in NC...

I did not buy the sights there, but IMO that shouldn't matter. I may have a hard time getting satisfaction out of this, regardless, but I am going to push for a refund and a replacement front sight.

MrVvrroomm
04-24-2010, 09:51
http://www.topgunsupply.com/images/D/IMGP1265.JPG

Your "gunsmith" should have been using something that resembled the above, NOT something that looked like below.

http://gallery.oldholden.com/d/324155-1/to+be+organised+484.JPG

You are no overreacting. The guy f'd up your sights. He should replace them.

Bluecard
04-24-2010, 09:57
That's horse dung!! I would make him purchase you a new front sight. That is unacceptable. I change those regularly for officers and there is no cause for such crappy work!!!

DEADLYACCURATE
04-24-2010, 10:04
Go get your money back

s0nspark
04-24-2010, 10:24
Thanks for the feedback everyone - sometimes I am too picky about things and it helped a lot to hear I was justified in my unhappiness with this.

I went back to the shop today and after a bit of complaining got a refund for the install fee and am having them contact Ameriglo for a replacement ... they *claimed* that Ameriglo would replace it free so I felt it best to let them handle that for me :-)

The guy I talked to told me that they see this problem with Ameriglo sights all the time (never Trijicon or Meprolights... "real" night sights, in his words) and that "it can't be helped"... that right after I called out the gunsmith on not using a sight pusher and he told me that a pusher was only for the rear sight (and he admitted he only had a Glock pusher...)

I've held off on buying my own sight pusher for fear I'd mess things up but after this debacle I'm thinking even if I had screwed up it wouldn't have been *this* bad :-/

Wash-ar15
04-24-2010, 12:36
See if you can find someone in your area that has a site pusher.

If you were close to me, I would have done it for free,like i have done for a few folks already.

I would not let that gunsmith touch my gun again though.

pangloss9
04-24-2010, 12:52
He owes you a new front sight and a refund. I'm not a gunsmith, but if I were and I couldn't do better than that, I'd find a new profession.

17119jfkioe
04-24-2010, 13:17
ugly man, I mean some might say glock isnt the prettiest gun anyway so what does it matter. But no one has the right to make it uglier haha. Serious though get your money back, unacceptable.

DEADLYACCURATE
04-24-2010, 13:25
ugly man, I mean some might say glock isnt the prettiest gun anyway so what does it matter. But no one has the right to make it uglier haha. Serious though get your money back, unacceptable.

PSSSSSST It isn't a Glock.

popeye9
04-24-2010, 13:36
Did you make him mad before he did the job? my sixteen year old daughter could have done better and she know nothing about guns. Get your money back and go somewhere else.

s0nspark
04-24-2010, 14:11
Did you make him mad before he did the job? my sixteen year old daughter could have done better and she know nothing about guns. Get your money back and go somewhere else.

Maybe I just didn't ask nice enough... I dunno.

It is one thing when I use one of my guns and it gets worn or beat up - it is entirely something else when someone else does it for me, especially when they should know better and I'm paying them not to!

argy1182
04-24-2010, 14:24
I agree with the rest of the folks. I have no formal training in this regard and installed my sights without any issue. I don't know what the heck he did there, but it's not right; especially for a professionally paid job.

Brian Lee
04-24-2010, 14:37
............The guy I talked to told me that they see this problem with Ameriglo sights all the time (never Trijicon or Meprolights... "real" night sights, in his words) and that "it can't be helped"... that right after I called out the gunsmith on not using a sight pusher and he told me that a pusher was only for the rear sight (and he admitted he only had a Glock pusher...)

The idea that "it can't be helped" with Ameriglo's is total BS because I've installed Ameriglo's with a pusher and the pusher does it perfectly every time. As for pushers being "only for rear sights" - again false. It's true of Glocks because they have no dovetail on the front, but on a gun with a front dovetail as you gun does, a pusher is the right tool, just as it is on the back.

The guy is just making excuses for using a butcher shop method on a job he did not have the right equipment for.

s0nspark
04-24-2010, 14:42
The idea that "it can't be helped" with Ameriglo's is total BS because I've installed Ameriglo's with a pusher and the pusher does it perfectly every time. As for pushers being "only for rear sights" - again false. It's true of Glocks because they have no dovetail on the front, but on a gun with a front dovetail as you gun does, a pusher is the right tool, just as it is on the back.


I guess I'm just going to have to get my own pusher and learn how to do this myself :-) Any advice on a good pusher that will work with many different models?


The guy is just making excuses for using a butcher shop method on a job he did not have the right equipment for.


Yes, that was my take on it too. I stood my ground with them, though... unusual for me, to be honest - I tend to be intimidated by this kind of thing. Thanks for the support!

17119jfkioe
04-24-2010, 19:48
PSSSSSST It isn't a Glock.

hahahaaha wow. i feel like an idiot:whistling:

AA#5
04-24-2010, 19:57
I just bought a new S&W M&P9C and took it to a local shop to have the gunsmith install a set of Ameriglo Pro Operator sights. When I picked it up today the smith told me he had a hard time getting the front sight on and even though he was using a brass punch the sight got "beat up"... At the time it just looked scuffed so I wasn't really concerned about it.

However, once I got it home and was disassembling the pistol to upgrade the sear, I got to looking at the damage closer and notice that it really is beat up.
I am quite unhappy with the work and after taking pictures to attach I got even madder once I saw the situation in hi-def :-(

I'll admit, I tend to be picky... so I may be blowing it out of proportion, but this just seems like really poor work to me. I wonder if I will have rust issues as a result... Thoughts? Do you think I have grounds to get them to replace the front sight? (As in, buy me a replacement - I won't have them work on my guns any more after this!)

No, you're not being picky at all. This looks like either the work of a drunk or a small child. I've installed sights on Sigs & Glocks with a pusher - not a mark on them. I'm not the least bit handy with tools. I even got brave & installed a fiber optic front sight on my Marlin lever rifle. The sight was oversize & my pushers wouldn't work, so I gradually filed the base little-by-little with a knife sharpener & successfully tapped it in with a brass punch. There are brass marks on the bottom of the sight but no dents at all. This job on your gun is horrible.

JohnKSa
04-24-2010, 21:06
There are brass marks on the bottom of the sight but no dents at all.Hoppes and a toothbrush will remove the brass smears. ;)

Jim S.
04-25-2010, 11:35
Anyone realize how hard it is going to be to get that sight out of the slide if it was that hard to get in?
I think that guy should look for another line of work.
I think he was stocking shelves at Walmart last week, perhaps he should go back there.

s0nspark
04-25-2010, 12:05
Anyone realize how hard it is going to be to get that sight out of the slide if it was that hard to get in?
I think that guy should look for another line of work.
I think he was stocking shelves at Walmart last week, perhaps he should go back there.

Well, I think his difficulty came mostly from not using the right tools. That and the fact that he was unaware that sight pushers would work on front sights too. :-/

The shop in question lost their previous gunsmith not too long ago, apparently, due to him moving out of state... maybe this guy was hired just to have someone around to fill the slot. His work certainly leaves a lot to be desired...

To me, there were at least three other options here than the route they took (installing my sights with hammer and punch and damaging my property)...

1) they could have used a sight pusher and installed them correctly

2) they could have warned me that the sight(s) might get beat up and let me decide whether to go elsewhere

3) they could have refused the work, citing their previous experiences (due to not having the proper tools for the job)

To try and push off such shoddy work onto me while blaming the sight vendor is totally inexcusable. I may still use this shop as my FFL of choice because they are cheaper in that respect and close to my house, but I will not take anything there to be worked on as long as the current gunsmith is there and I won't buy from them either.

NEOH212
04-25-2010, 17:55
As a non gunsmith, with little to no gunsmithing experience...I've installed aftermarket sites on my pistols myself, and never had any come out that looked like that.

The Gunsmith should have atleast offered to give you your money back, or something...that work is nothing to be proud of.

+1! I do all of my own gunsmith work but if I took one of my guns to a so called smith and it came back looking like that. I would be :steamed:

farkill
04-25-2010, 19:15
Well, since the fellow says he used a "brass" punch, I havta wonder if that sight is made from aluminum :upeyes:. I'm thinking he probably used a brass punch for a while, then got mad at it and beat it in with a steel drift.

Seawolf
04-27-2010, 23:43
How on earth do you hand something like that to a customer and expect them to be pleased with that?

take it back and if he refuses to fix make sure he knows you are going to spread the word on every local forum you can find.

s0nspark
04-28-2010, 06:06
How on earth do you hand something like that to a customer and expect them to be pleased with that?


From talking (complaining) with them, they've had this problem many times before... no telling how many other unhappy customers they've made as a result.

No way to do business, for sure...

IndyGunFreak
04-28-2010, 06:14
From talking (complaining) with them, they've had this problem many times before... no telling how many other unhappy customers they've made as a result.

No way to do business, for sure...

So what did he say about the refund?

s0nspark
04-28-2010, 06:21
So what did he say about the refund?

Well, I got a refund of the install fee and they are working on getting a replacement sight from Ameriglo... They seem to be under the impression that Ameriglo will replace it free which, hey, they might... but I seriously doubt it since it was damaged due to improper installation... We'll see.

I called them yesterday to see if they had worked out anything and they "hadn't been able to get hold of anyone yet..." :-/

I did talk very briefly with the shop owner so if I have to follow up with him at least he will have heard of this.

757CC
04-28-2010, 19:57
Glad to hear they are doing right by you. That was a terrible install job! Once it's done right shoot it and enjoy it.

RFPhoto
04-28-2010, 21:32
www.srvcanada.com
http://www.srvcanada.com/product_info.php?products_id=179&osCsid=cfa7e221e8f2137231d1d5da605ceee8
$$$ but worth it.

s0nspark
04-29-2010, 16:11
Got a call today that my replacement sight was in ... went and picked it up after work. Now to find someone I can trust to install it or else order a sight pusher and brave the uncharted waters myself... :-)

cwshootersupply
04-30-2010, 23:18
Hammer and punch on tritum sight vials =no tritum gas is vial.
I use a arbor press and a brass tipped pusher in my shop and no I have never done that.
Crap he didn't even make an effort to fix the damage to the base of the site.

CEW

Brucev
05-01-2010, 06:56
Deleted.

s0nspark
05-01-2010, 09:47
Took my M&P to a gunsmith in the next town and he got me fixed up... He didn't use a sight pusher (he said they do not work so well on the front sights on the M&P compact and long slides) but he hand fitted the front sight by slowly relieving a bit of the sight base until it went in with gentle taps on a brass punch. No marring - looks perfect. :-)

He was cool enough to even clean up the damage on the old sight with a dremel tool and reblue the ends so I'm gonna pass that one on to my stepdad who also has an M&P9C but doesn't have night sights.

Oh, did I mention the smith only charged me $10? I'll certainly be taking him my future business...

cwshootersupply
05-01-2010, 11:00
Glad you got it fixed.
CEW

Jason D
06-12-2010, 17:01
Took my M&P to a gunsmith in the next town and he got me fixed up... He didn't use a sight pusher (he said they do not work so well on the front sights on the M&P compact and long slides) but he hand fitted the front sight by slowly relieving a bit of the sight base until it went in with gentle taps on a brass punch. No marring - looks perfect. :-)

He was cool enough to even clean up the damage on the old sight with a dremel tool and reblue the ends so I'm gonna pass that one on to my stepdad who also has an M&P9C but doesn't have night sights.

Oh, did I mention the smith only charged me $10? I'll certainly be taking him my future business...

I followed the link from the gunsmith thread.

I am glad you got your gun all fixex up, and were able to salvage the messed up sight. I much prefer the sights that fasten to the slide via a little nut on the bottom of them.

s0nspark
06-12-2010, 17:03
I much prefer the sights that fasten to the slide via a little nut on the bottom of them.


I certainly understand the benefits of that arrangement now :-)

larry1096
06-13-2010, 11:06
The only way that those sights would have been that hard to install is if the 'gunsmith' didn't know he had to (or simply neglected to) fit the sight base to the dovetail-something smith #2 obviously knew.

I've had some seriously bad experiences with gunsmiths. Keep in mind that to become a 'gunsmith' you have to do no more than buy a sign and have business cards printed up. ;)

Nowadays if there's something I can't manage (and I have tools up to and including a small mill) I always ask the 'smith if I can peek at their workbench. A guy with a full-size Bridgeport and Atlas, a row of sight pushers and racks filled with taps/dies/cutters is likely to be a 'real' gunsmith, and a guy with a hammer and a brass punch isn't.


Larry

Wash-ar15
06-13-2010, 11:41
Took my M&P to a gunsmith in the next town and he got me fixed up... He didn't use a sight pusher (he said they do not work so well on the front sights on the M&P compact and long slides) but he hand fitted the front sight by slowly relieving a bit of the sight base until it went in with gentle taps on a brass punch. No marring - looks perfect. :-)

He was cool enough to even clean up the damage on the old sight with a dremel tool and reblue the ends so I'm gonna pass that one on to my stepdad who also has an M&P9C but doesn't have night sights.

Oh, did I mention the smith only charged me $10? I'll certainly be taking him my future business...

Did he stake the front site in?fitting a dovetail that does not have a set screw,you risk the site moving.

With the right tool,no filing should be needed.

s0nspark
06-13-2010, 12:10
A guy with a full-size Bridgeport and Atlas, a row of sight pushers and racks filled with taps/dies/cutters is likely to be a 'real' gunsmith, and a guy with a hammer and a brass punch isn't.


Haha - so true...

s0nspark
06-13-2010, 12:12
Did he stake the front site in?fitting a dovetail that does not have a set screw,you risk the site moving.

With the right tool,no filing should be needed.

No, he made sure it was a tight (but not intolerable) fit first and then secured it with red threadlocker...

VN350X10
06-13-2010, 12:25
Actually, I've done the same install on the same pistol WITH a proper fitting punch & hammer.
BUT....fitting the sight to the dovetail slot in the slide is sometimes necessary, even when using a pusher !
I've seen sights distorted with a pusher when just brute force is applied. The gun mfgr's. tolerances are going to be better than the AFTERMARKET sight mfgr's. They are only interested in producing the sights. The gun mfgr. is concerned with production line tolerance for thousands of parts. Who do you think is going to be fussier ?
Even Bomar sights take hand fitting, otherwise tool producers would be able to make a PERFECT dovetail cutter to the exact undersize needed.
After I do a sight install, I test fire the pistol to make sure it's at least close for the customer. AFTER the customer has shot the pistol & is happy with the sight install, I have them bring it back & I put self-wicking loctite in place. No need for staking, & the sights don't move.
And the customer is usually impressed with the attention to detail & BRING IN/SEND me more work !
No matter what business customer service is key.
And gunbutcher#1 should have MADE a specific punch to fit the job !

uncle albert

D&J Guns
116 W. Rt. 120
Lakemoor IL 60051

ravenkeeper98
06-13-2010, 12:27
I just bought a new S&W M&P9C and took it to a local shop to have the gunsmith install a set of Ameriglo Pro Operator sights. When I picked it up today the smith told me he had a hard time getting the front sight on and, even though he was using a brass punch, the sight got "beat up"... At the time it just looked scuffed so I wasn't really concerned about it.

However, once I got it home and was disassembling the pistol to upgrade the sear, I got to looking at the damage closer and notice that it really is beat up. I am quite unhappy with the work and after taking pictures to attach I got even madder once I saw the situation in hi-res :-(

I'll admit, I tend to be picky... so I may be blowing it out of proportion, but this just seems like really poor work to me. I wonder if I will have rust issues as a result... Thoughts? Do you think I have grounds to get them to replace the front sight? (As in, buy me a replacement - I won't have them work on my guns any more after this!)

Is it just me, or did he use black paint to try and cover up all the finish he scraped off with that punch?:shocked:

s0nspark
06-13-2010, 12:29
Is it just me, or did he use black paint to try and cover up all the finish he scraped off with that punch?:shocked:

Looked that way to me - prolly black Sharpie :-/ What really surprised me was that he made no effort to smooth out the dents he put in the dovetail base...

Needless to say I don't go to that shop anymore...

glockerbob
06-13-2010, 12:43
you are not overreacting. i would make them buy another sight.

CombatArmsUSAF
06-27-2010, 14:38
I'd definitely have someone else install those sights. Looking at that sight and how damaged it is, did he install the sight in the right direction? Most dovetails are smaller on one side than they are on the other.

I dunno what direction you have to install the sights in on an M&P but it looks as though he might not have known either. I used a brass punch to install sights on a whole lot of guns and I have yet to screw up a sight like that.

That's if he even used a brass punch in the first place, the whole point of using a brass punch is because it's softer than the steel that most sights utilize.

DannyR
06-29-2010, 02:19
Get the right sight pusher for the job. Universal pushers cause universal problems. Also, before installing a new sight, place a drop of oil on each side of the dovetail on the slide.

Never, ever use a punch on a night sight, as you just might crack the tritium vial.

AA#5
06-29-2010, 02:41
Thanks for the feedback everyone - sometimes I am too picky about things and it helped a lot to hear I was justified in my unhappiness with this.

I went back to the shop today and after a bit of complaining got a refund for the install fee and am having them contact Ameriglo for a replacement ... they *claimed* that Ameriglo would replace it free so I felt it best to let them handle that for me :-)

The guy I talked to told me that they see this problem with Ameriglo sights all the time (never Trijicon or Meprolights... "real" night sights, in his words) and that "it can't be helped"... that right after I called out the gunsmith on not using a sight pusher and he told me that a pusher was only for the rear sight (and he admitted he only had a Glock pusher...)

I've held off on buying my own sight pusher for fear I'd mess things up but after this debacle I'm thinking even if I had screwed up it wouldn't have been *this* bad :-/

Well, besides being cheap, your "gunsmith" is full of crap. There are universal sight pushers that fit almost every gun. I have NO mechanical ability & I've installed night sights on Sigarms and Glocks. I even installed a fiber-optic front sight on my Marlin lever rifle without a sight pusher - I simply gradually filed the oversized sight base with a knife sharpening stone, then tapped it in with a brass punch. You can't see any marks on the sight unless you look closely. Yours looks like a drunk (who was in a big hurry) did it.