Haz mat fees? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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BSA70
04-26-2010, 08:32
I was going to get an order up for some supplies and noticed a tremendous hazmat fee. I s this normal? Are you better off walking into a store a purchasing these items?

Is there a way to save money in this area?

XDRoX
04-26-2010, 08:52
Most online stores charge $20 or $25 hazmat and there is no way to get around it. I order primers by the 5000 and powder by the 8lb keg. Even with hazmat this works out to be much cheaper than the stores around here.

So if you order in bulk, you'll save. But if all the want is 100 primers, then your local store is still the best way to go.

XDRoX
04-26-2010, 08:54
BTW, you only have to pay one hazmat per order (although there is a limit), it's not per item.

rifleman56
04-26-2010, 09:04
xdrox, where is the best place to buy primers?

ron59
04-26-2010, 09:21
I do what XdRox says, but I buy primers 10,000 at a time.

Hazmat is $25 or so.... assuming the primer price is $25 per 1000 and you only buy 1000 primers and then pay Hazmat, you just paid $50 per 1000.

Order 10,000 primers, and with hazmat your price is now $27.xx per 1000. Locally, I've not seen them better than $40.00 per 1000, most online stores (Graf's, etc) as well.

If you can throw some powder in there as well, you're doing even better.

Powder Valley is *the* place for primers, but they'll be listing everything as "BACKORDER" right now. Go ahead and place an order for 10,000 and wait for it... pick up what you can locally or other online places when you can, but be prepared to pay $40 per 1000. That's a little steep in my opinion, but I may have to resort to that.

I'm down to my last 2500 or so, and that'll last me a month maybe. I hope my PV order ships soon! ;)

XDRoX
04-26-2010, 09:32
xdrox, where is the best place to buy primers?

Here are 5000 (http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=278%7C284%7C737) Wolf small pistol primers for $137.

If I want CCI I buy them from midway or cabela's. I just check everyday and order them when they get them in. They usually get more in about once every other week. But they charge a lot for them.

unclebob
04-26-2010, 10:27
http://www.grafs.com/
http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/
These are the two of the best places too order primers and powder. The more you order the better. If you order enough the discount well pay for the hazmat fee. Get with your friends that reload and place a large order. That is the only way you are going too save money.

rifleman56
04-26-2010, 10:39
I just back ordered 5000 primers from power valley

dudel
04-26-2010, 11:22
BTW, you only have to pay one hazmat per order (although there is a limit), it's not per item.

IIRC, there is a limit on how many primers and how much powder they will ship you under one fee.

XDRoX
04-26-2010, 11:37
IIRC, there is a limit on how many primers and how much powder they will ship you under one fee.

Yep, that's why I said , although there is a limit. I believe it's different for different companies. I know that Widener's charges $25 for whatever they can fit in a package. Once you go over "their package" another $25 is added.
How much can they fit in a package is the question:dunno:
I know I've ordered quite a bit from them and they always fit it in one package. On their site they even state:
"Order all you can to reduce your cost per unit as many items can usually be put in one package."

ron59
04-26-2010, 11:44
With Powder Valley.... I think the limit is SEVENTY POUNDS!!??!!

I think you can order quite a bit of stuff at that rate. :supergrin:

alwaysshootin
04-26-2010, 11:49
IIRC, there is a limit on how many primers and how much powder they will ship you under one fee.

and to add, I believe there is a seperate fee for each powder and primers. If you can order in bulk it is worth the haz-mat fee. You are paying it one way or another, even when you buy at a brick and mortar. All fees and taxes are paid by the consumer, one way or another!:crying:

jing1117
04-26-2010, 11:52
My experience with Grafs is 30,000 primers (Federal Small Pistol) is the limit per box, one hazmat fee - Don't know if this will change with CCI/Winchester/Wolf/Remington brands since they are packed in smaller boxes. For Powder its 32#.

XDRoX
04-26-2010, 11:57
and to add, I believe there is a seperate fee for each powder and primers.

All the places I've ordered from do not charge separate hazmat fees for buying powder and primers in the same order.

alwaysshootin
04-26-2010, 12:16
All the places I've ordered from do not charge separate hazmat fees for buying powder and primers in the same order.

That's good to hear, have never ordered with shipping of either, but thought I read there was a seperate charge. I've been lucky finding what I need at gun shows, and shops to date, but feel sometime in the future a sizable order will be needed.

netmage2112
04-26-2010, 12:30
Powder Valley is *the* place for primers, but they'll be listing everything as "BACKORDER" right now. Go ahead and place an order for 10,000 and wait for it... pick up what you can locally or other online places when you can, but be prepared to pay $40 per 1000. That's a little steep in my opinion, but I may have to resort to that.


They appear to be one of the only places accepting backorders...
When ordering backordered - whats the general ETA....?

Are we talking 2-3 weeks? 1-2 months? 3-6 months? or 6+?

I'm just stocking up, got 10K primers and 8lbs inbound from Wideners. Just want to know how far ahead of the curve to anticipate consumables...

captyg76
04-26-2010, 12:34
MidSouth Shooters also accepts backorders.

RustyFN
04-26-2010, 12:36
IIRC, there is a limit on how many primers and how much powder they will ship you under one fee.

Yes and the limits are,

70 pounds of primers, usually 50,000
50 pounds of powder
50 pounds of powder and primers mixed

I usually buy from Graf & Sons and I buy 50,000 primers at a time for one hazmat.

Glocks&Ducs
04-26-2010, 12:54
Yes and the limits are,

70 pounds of primers, usually 50,000
50 pounds of powder
50 pounds of powder and primers mixed

I usually buy from Graf & Sons and I buy 50,000 primers at a time for one hazmat.

I believe it is 48 pounds of powder and 48 pounds of mixed. I also believe there is a rule that states powder and primers must be shipped in seperate containers. Some places take this to mean two seperate boxes, with the associated two hazmat fees, and others ship in the same outer box, with the powder and primers seperated by boxing in the inside.

Also, I don't know if the girl I spoke to was just mistaken, but I called PV once and was told that they would only ship 48 pounds of primers on one hazmat fee. I think she also said that usually comes out to 47,000 primers by the time you account for the weight of the packaging. Wideners shipped my 50,000 primer order one fee and in one box. So they got my business that day.

Gunnut 45/454
04-26-2010, 14:03
When you buy in the store your still paying the Haz mat fee - it's just included into your price! As with all fees and taxes the store includes it in your price ! :whistling:

ron59
04-26-2010, 14:53
They appear to be one of the only places accepting backorders...
When ordering backordered - whats the general ETA....?

Are we talking 2-3 weeks? 1-2 months? 3-6 months? or 6+?

I'm just stocking up, got 10K primers and 8lbs inbound from Wideners. Just want to know how far ahead of the curve to anticipate consumables...

I can only give you my personal experience. I placed two orders with them in 2009, the BAD year for this stuff (supply finally seems to be catching up).

I placed my first order in late March, had it June 1st. So that one took two full months. I placed another order in September, and had it TWO WEEKS LATER. I might have gotten lucky on that one.

At the end of this March (not quite a month yet) I placed two more orders of 10,000... one for CCI primers and one for Federal primers. I placed them separately because, they will not ship until everything is in stock, but they WON'T "hold" an item waiting for the second item to come in. I heard some horror stories about guys waiting 6 months last year, but further questioning showed they also ordered an uncommon powder in the same order. Let the primers come in and the powder not be on hand? Too bad, the primers gets shipped to someone else. And so forth.

Until things get more "caught up", I will place my primer orders separately. Oh... and I think CCI seems to be flowing a little better than Federal, so if you don't mind CCI I'd get that.

fredj338
04-26-2010, 15:59
Yes and the limits are,

70 pounds of primers, usually 50,000
50 pounds of powder
50 pounds of powder and primers mixed

I usually buy from Graf & Sons and I buy 50,000 primers at a time for one hazmat.
DING, DING, DING, winner here. Yesm, you need to check w/ the seller. Some companies WILL NOT ship primers & pwoder together, resulting in 2 HM fees. Order enough & the shipping & HM is still far cheaper than buying at many local shops. Throw in the fricking 10% ST in Kalif. & it's quite a savings.

RustyFN
04-26-2010, 16:07
I also believe there is a rule that states powder and primers must be shipped in seperate containers.

No there isn't any rule. I have ordered powder and primers and they showed up in the same box. The only time they ship separate is when a company like Midway doesn't stock both. Midway stocks and ships primers and has the powder dropped shipped from Powder Valley and they charge you two hazmat fee's for it.

Also, I don't know if the girl I spoke to was just mistaken, but I called PV once and was told that they would only ship 48 pounds of primers on one hazmat fee. I think she also said that usually comes out to 47,000 primers by the time you account for the weight of the packaging.

I was told the same thing by a woman at Graf's. She double checked and told me it is 70 pounds of primers. Large primers are around 7.5 pounds per 1K and small primers around 6.5 pounds per 1K. So if you are ordering only large primers I don't think you can get 50,000. My order for 50,000 was LP, SR and SP and came very close to 70 pounds.

Glocks&Ducs
04-26-2010, 16:31
No there isn't any rule. I have ordered powder and primers and they showed up in the same box. The only time they ship separate is when a company like Midway doesn't stock both. Midway stocks and ships primers and has the powder dropped shipped from Powder Valley and they charge you two hazmat fee's for it.


You are right about Midway, but that has nothing to do with the other aspects of shipping. There are several rules. One of them states that when you are shipping two different types of hazardous materials together in one package (there is also another rule for which materials can and can't be shipped together), they have to be packaged so that if the contents spill, they still can't mix together. That means either the primers must have their own box, or the powders must have their own box, within the larger box in which the two are shipped together. Some times, the shippers will package with seperate boxes for both within the larger box.

Think about what you are reading before you go spouting off about things you don't know. Just because someone may have sent something to you without following the rules, or you didn't pay attention to how they were packed, doesn't mean there are no rules.

GioaJack
04-26-2010, 16:44
You are right about Midway, but that has nothing to do with the other aspects of shipping. There are several rules. One of them states that when you are shipping two different types of hazardous materials together in one package (there is also another rule for which materials can and can't be shipped together), they have to be packaged so that if the contents spill, they still can't mix together. That means either the primers must have their own box, or the powders must have their own box, within the larger box in which the two are shipped together. Some times, the shippers will package with seperate boxes for both within the larger box.

Think about what you are reading before you go spouting off about things you don't know. Just because someone may have sent something to you without following the rules, or you didn't pay attention to how they were packed, doesn't mean there are no rules.


I believe if you carefully read the question Rusty was answering and the actual context of his answer he was responding to the query of a law or regulation requiring primers and powder to be shipped separately.

His answer included the additional information that Midway ships separately because they have the powder shipped by a third party. I don't believe his answer was intended to address the subject of primers and powder being physically kept apart by two containers in one shipping box.

Of course I guess it's possible I haven't really given his answer adequate thought. :dunno:

Jack

Glocks&Ducs
04-26-2010, 16:55
I believe if you carefully read the question Rusty was answering and the actual context of his answer he was responding to the query of a law or regulation requiring primers and powder to be shipped separately.

His answer included the additional information that Midway ships separately because they have the powder shipped by a third party. I don't believe his answer was intended to address the subject of primers and powder being physically kept apart by two containers in one shipping box.

Of course I guess it's possible I haven't really given his answer adequate thought. :dunno:

Jack

I was clarifying that some shippers do us a favor by shipping seperately within a larger outer box. He stated there are no rules as if he is a subject matter expert. I clarified that there are rules. I agree you haven't given that portion of the conversation adequate thought.

If you look at the "question", which wasn't a question at all, he was quoting me.

GioaJack
04-26-2010, 18:09
]I believe it is 48 pounds of powder and 48 pounds of mixed. I also believe there is a rule that states powder and primers must be shipped in seperate containers. Some places take this to mean two seperate boxes, with the associated two hazmat fees, and others ship in the same outer box, with the powder and primers seperated by boxing in the inside.[/COLOR]

Also, I don't know if the girl I spoke to was just mistaken, but I called PV once and was told that they would only ship 48 pounds of primers on one hazmat fee. I think she also said that usually comes out to 47,000 primers by the time you account for the weight of the packaging. Wideners shipped my 50,000 primer order one fee and in one box. So they got my business that day.

I was clarifying that some shippers do us a favor by shipping seperately within a larger outer box. He stated there are no rules as if he is a subject matter expert. I clarified that there are rules. I agree you haven't given that portion of the conversation adequate thought.

If you look at the "question", which wasn't a question at all, he was quoting me.


Having no life what-so-ever it leaves me with quite a bit of spare time on my hands so I followed your advice and reread all of the relevant posts 'adequately'. I must admit that I come away a bit perplexed.

You say, very adamantly, that Rusty knows not of what he speaks but your defense of the subject begins with 'I believe'. Now I am fully aware that religion is based on belief rather than fact but I was under the impression that laws, and or regulations are passed or enacted by a body of competent jurisdiction and not governed by a belief system.

You say that your 'belief' is that the delivery of powder is limited to 48 pounds of powder... or 48 pounds mixed. (I take that to mean 48 pounds of mixed legally shipped articles with powder being one of those items.) I am confused as to how I order 50 pounds of black powder at a time and it gets delivered in one box. (If the distributor is just doing me a favor by shipping in one box it must be a vast conspiracy, or three different distributors got together and decided they really like me.)

I am further perplexed by your recollection that Powder Valley would only ship 47K of primers but yet Wideners shipped 50K. Did Wideners willfully violate a 'law' or does PV simply have a shipping 'policy' that it chooses to abide by?

A very perplexing situation indeed... I believe.

Jack

RustyFN
04-26-2010, 18:30
Think about what you are reading before you go spouting off about things you don't know. Just because someone may have sent something to you without following the rules, or you didn't pay attention to how they were packed, doesn't mean there are no rules.

edit

Yes they can ship powder and primers in the same box. I have received them that way from very responsible companies. I don't think Graf's and PV are going to take the chance and ship it ilegal. But I guess you know better.

n2extrm
04-26-2010, 18:33
Having no life what-so-ever it leaves me with quite a bit of spare time on my hands so I followed your advice and reread all of the relevant posts 'adequately'. I must admit that I come away a bit perplexed.

You say, very adamantly, that Rusty knows not of what he speaks but your defense of the subject begins with 'I believe'. Now I am fully aware that religion is based on belief rather than fact but I was under the impression that laws, and or regulations are passed or enacted by a body of competent jurisdiction and not governed by a belief system.

You say that your 'belief' is that the delivery of powder is limited to 48 pounds of powder... or 48 pounds mixed. (I take that to mean 48 pounds of mixed legally shipped articles with powder being one of those items.) I am confused as to how I order 50 pounds of black powder at a time and it gets delivered in one box. (If the distributor is just doing me a favor by shipping in one box it must be a vast conspiracy, or three different distributors got together and decided they really like me.)

I am further perplexed by your recollection that Powder Valley would only ship 47K of primers but yet Wideners shipped 50K. Did Wideners willfully violate a 'law' or does PV simply have a shipping 'policy' that it chooses to abide by?

A very perplexing situation indeed... I believe.

Jack


Jack,

I believe it was a conspiracy, that in fact included your now missing UPS sweetie. They bumped her off for the extra 2 lbs or so of hazmat materials she delivered. She knew too much.

Then again what the heck do I know I am just a flat lander! :rofl::wavey:

Glocks&Ducs
04-26-2010, 18:34
Having no life what-so-ever it leaves me with quite a bit of spare time on my hands so I followed your advice and reread all of the relevant posts 'adequately'. I must admit that I come away a bit perplexed.

You say, very adamantly, that Rusty knows not of what he speaks but your defense of the subject begins with 'I believe'. Now I am fully aware that religion is based on belief rather than fact but I was under the impression that laws, and or regulations are passed or enacted by a body of competent jurisdiction and not governed by a belief system.

You say that your 'belief' is that the delivery of powder is limited to 48 pounds of powder... or 48 pounds mixed. (I take that to mean 48 pounds of mixed legally shipped articles with powder being one of those items.) I am confused as to how I order 50 pounds of black powder at a time and it gets delivered in one box. (If the distributor is just doing me a favor by shipping in one box it must be a vast conspiracy, or three different distributors got together and decided they really like me.)

I am further perplexed by your recollection that Powder Valley would only ship 47K of primers but yet Wideners shipped 50K. Did Wideners willfully violate a 'law' or does PV simply have a shipping 'policy' that it chooses to abide by?

A very perplexing situation indeed... I believe.

Jack

You know, I haven't looked into the situation that thoroughly. But.

The laws or regulations for shipping blackpowder may be different than they are for smokeless powder. Perhaps the particular carriers of whoever shipped you 50lbs of blackpowder takes into account only what the product weighs. As opposed to including the packaging. Whereas the other places have to include the packaging in their weight. So even though they may legally ship 50lbs, they are still limited to 48lbs because if they shipped 52 pounds including packaging, it would put them over the limit. Have you considered that?

I stated I believe in a conversational sense, based on my experience in having ordered primers and powders. And based on what the places I have used have stated on their website or in person. Sometimes mixed, sometimes not. It was providing an opportunity for someone who could state factually whether or not what I stated was true. It wasn't meant to be an open door, for such a closed minded and ignorant statement, such as "there isn't any rule." What kind of statement is that? If there wasn't any rule, we wouldn't be paying hazmat fees, all the companies would just ship our orders as they pleased and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Furthermore, I never stated or implied at any point in time that Widener's or anyone else violated any laws. I was making a point that Widener's simply shipped me 50,000 primers while PV wouldn't according to the person I spoke to at PV. I never said 50,000 primers was above the legal limit. I never said 47,000 was the legal limit. My point was, I was able to make the most of my savings by buying more primers at once, and only having to pay one hazmat fee. In either case, why don't you ask Widener's and PV your question. What point are you making, and what good does it do to ask me such an asanine question?

RustyFN
04-26-2010, 18:37
I believe if you carefully read the question Rusty was answering and the actual context of his answer he was responding to the query of a law or regulation requiring primers and powder to be shipped separately.

Exactly but what do I know. :rofl:

Glocks&Ducs
04-26-2010, 18:40
Sorry G&D I didn't mean to get your panties into a big wad.

Yes they can ship powder and primers in the same box. I have received them that way from very responsible companies. I don't think Graf's and PV are going to take the chance and ship it ilegal. But I guess you know better.

Don't you worry yourself. I don't bother to get anything in a wad. Especially not when dealing with mental midgets that can't comprehend what they are reading.

RLDS45S
04-26-2010, 18:59
Well, I assure all of you that reputable companies ship according to what their haz mat contract allows. Some contracts do not allow for combined shipments, where as some do. Is there a wt restriction you bet. That is why the stuff is packed seperate in same box like Grafs. Most decent size retailers DONT pay haz mat fees.....why cause they order enough to get stuff shipped truck freight. Places like Grafs, BHSS, and other places ship on pallets or larger places have their own trucks so there is no haz mat fee.
The freight on a pallet of stuff from grafs is about the cost of two haz mat fees for shipping over 1000# of product.

Some smaller frt companies charge less of a haz mat fee like Speedy....

RustyFN
04-26-2010, 19:39
Don't you worry yourself. I don't bother to get anything in a wad. Especially not when dealing with mental midgets that can't comprehend what they are reading.

sorry edit

Glocks&Ducs
04-26-2010, 19:49
I'm glad to hear that you aren't mad. I'll try to be a little more careful next time as to not upset the sexual intellectuals.

You know. I'm sure that at 35 I haven't learned as much as some of the old fogey's around here have forgotten. Can you please explain what the hell a sexual intellectual is?

RustyFN
04-26-2010, 20:12
sorry edit

RustyFN
04-26-2010, 21:10
BSA70 sorry for taking the thread where it shouldn't have gone. I am editing some post's because I don't want your thread to get locked.

G&D if you still want to know what that means or have a problem I would be happy to take it to PM.

ron59
04-27-2010, 06:05
You know. I'm sure that at 35 I haven't learned as much as some of the old fogey's around here have forgotten. Can you please explain what the hell a sexual intellectual is?

Dude. Give it a rest.

You've taken over a thread with your bickering. Plus... pretty sure the guys you are arguing with are right. So... that's 4 against and just you? Take a hint from that and give it up.

Glocks&Ducs
04-27-2010, 06:11
Dude. Give it a rest.

You've taken over a thread with your bickering. Plus... pretty sure the guys you are arguing with are right. So... that's 4 against and just you? Take a hint from that and give it up.

I wasn't arguing with anybody, and it was a three way conversation. How was their four against me? In case you didn't notice, you are the one that has incited the thread. I made my point and I was done.