Stoeger double defender [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Stoeger double defender


itstime
04-26-2010, 14:14
Talk me out of it. Does anybody have one? Likes dislikes? I would probably set it up for a home gun. Already have three Mossbergs.

I'm being drawn to it but it doesn't seem too functional being a two shooter instead of six or seven.

Jesu27
04-26-2010, 15:49
No double trigger kinda sucks in my opinion. Thats really the only thing I dont like about it.

Bullman
04-28-2010, 02:05
I would like a double for a house gun, but I would like to have selective ejectors on it so it speeds up the reloading process, since you are limited to two shots. I would still like one, just cause I like shotguns.

ScrappyDoo
04-28-2010, 09:15
Boomstick of last resort as far as defense and/or tactical situation. Nice showpiece and certainly not something I'm opposed to for show/collection and FUN shooting, would be the boomstik of last resort for me if firing in anger / defending God, country , life , liberty , my chili Hotdogs with mustard , last slice of tomato pie, et. Al.

stiletto raggio
05-07-2010, 16:13
Looks sweet, but I would probably opt for a standard Coach Gun, or maybe the one with a nice recoil pad.

DHart
05-13-2010, 00:02
Talk me out of it.

Gladly.

Pass on the Defender (I don't think they make a two-trigger version of it.)

But DO buy a double trigger Stoeger Coach Gun! They make a great traveling/motel gun.

FOR DEFENSE RELIABILITY, AVOID THE SINGLE TRIGGER MODELS... they've been failing and causing unintended doubles. Avoid the problems by buying the tried and true double-trigger models!


Your best choice would be one of the Stoeger Coach Gun "Supreme" models which have recoil pads on the stocks and two triggers. Or a standard model and have recoil pad installed. These guns are great, but all need some minor modifications:

1) Slick action so it opens and closes easily
2) Polish the chambers so spent shells fly out with a rearward jerking motion
3) Have auto-on safety converted to manual
4) Have nice recoil pad installed.

These are easy and inexpensive mods... especially if done by an experienced cowboy action gunsmith. These guns are heavily used in cowboy action shooting. That's where I learned about them and bought mine. It makes a SWEET traveling gun and a nice alternate gun in addition to your pump(s).

I've got an 18.5" 500 Persuader, 20" 590, and an 1100CM. Despite having these other nice and capable shotguns, I'm still very happy to have the Coach gun because it fills a niche and is always nice to have it around and handy. I keep several boomsticks loaded and handy around the house, just because ya never know when ya might need one! But when I travel, the Coach gun is the only one that goes because it's just small and easy enough to travel along effortlessly.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/CoachGunRig.jpg


Takes down in 2.2 seconds: push lever in forearm and it comes off, push action lever and barrel drops down and you lift it off. Now you have three easy pieces, longest of which is only 20". Put in small suitcase, bag, backpack, etc. and off you go. NICE.

I used to take a pistol along when I traveled, now I take this along with the pistol. Nicer to have a 12 ga. double and a pistol vs. just a pistol only! ;-)

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/CoachGunTakenDown.jpg

Coach gun makes a nice launch pad for this with two quick trigger pulls:
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/IMG_3595.jpg

A BLAST or two of 00 Buck from a coach gun and you're not likely to even need to use the pistol.

kirgi08
05-13-2010, 03:03
You did your home/net/work.'08.


:goodpost:

jstang
05-16-2010, 19:29
picked one up used 2 weeks ago would only fire out of one chamber. Its back at stoeger now.

MTPD
05-17-2010, 12:35
I like short, light, doubles for home defense. There is nothing quicker for the first two shots, and speaking from stake-out experience, there is nothing as easy to use indoors that has more stopping power. Assuming, of course, you are shooting 00 or 000 buckshot.

DHart
05-17-2010, 13:48
I like short, light, doubles for home defense. There is nothing quicker for the first two shots, and speaking from stake-out experience, there is nothing as easy to use indoors that has more stopping power. Assuming, of course, you are shooting 00 or 000 buckshot.

Oh yes, MTPD, I really agree with you that these little Coach Guns (not the Defender, but the double-trigger Coach Gun models!) are a very sweet in-home defense option indeed!

wonderwolf
05-17-2010, 13:50
I'm in line with the other guys saying go with the coach gun instead.

stiletto raggio
05-17-2010, 14:59
For the record: I can see some limited applications of optics on a fighting shotgun, but on a short double barrel, whose primary positive attribute is simplicity, an AimPoint is insane. A light, sure, but you don't need ten inches of rail for that.

DHart
05-18-2010, 19:22
OK... you're going to like this. I found this tripod bag for like $9. The Coach Gun barrel is 20", the bag is 22". Perfect!!!

To prevent scratches, I wrap the barrel and stock separately in a soft cotton pillow case before slipping them and the forearm into the bag.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/P1000606.jpg

My size 11 shoes for size reference
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/P1000604.jpg

Off you go with a most discreet (and economical) little bag! A totally non-tactical, low-profile approach.

"What's in the bag?"

"OH! That's my tripod!" ;)
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/P1000608.jpg

While a larger capacity pump shotgun makes for a better defense gun, in those situations where you just wouldn't take a larger pump shotgun, you can easily take along the coach gun. Should you be so unfortunate as to find yourself in a defense situation, a two-shot 12 gauge is a HECK of a lot better than NO shotgun at all.

If you're on the road, in a motel, tent, or wherever and getting settled in, you can assemble the coach gun in 2 seconds and have a very nice defensive addition to your pistol. Two quick rounds of 00 Buck at your disposal, before transitioning to your pistol, can be a heck of a lot more effective than only having the pistol. ;)

JSandi
05-20-2010, 00:03
I love the Stoeger Coach Gun!

Not to mention the psychological effect of a burglar or other unsavory type staring down both of those barrels would be a life changing event, one way or the other...

jstang
05-20-2010, 04:54
Mine came back from stoeger yesterday, their repair invoice indicated they test fired it and found nothing wrong. Took it to the range at the shop where i picked it up first 2 rounds fired at the same time with one pull of the trigger. After that we loaded 6 more rounds all of which fired right. The salesman told me to if there were any more problems to bring it back and they would ship it to stoeger again. Got it home and after a few more rounds it began firing on the right chamber only again, guess its going back to stoeger again. I would stay away from the gun.

TxGun
05-20-2010, 10:03
If I were going for a coach gun, I'd find a hammer version. If not, it sits with with the springs cocked all the time...either that or you have to remove snap caps, then load it when you need it.

DHart
05-20-2010, 13:11
Mine came back from stoeger yesterday, their repair invoice indicated they test fired it and found nothing wrong. Took it to the range at the shop where i picked it up first 2 rounds fired at the same time with one pull of the trigger. After that we loaded 6 more rounds all of which fired right. The salesman told me to if there were any more problems to bring it back and they would ship it to stoeger again. Got it home and after a few more rounds it began firing on the right chamber only again, guess its going back to stoeger again. I would stay away from the gun.

I strongly encourage you to immediately cut your losses my friend and let go of the gun with no further ado. Put the problems and the potential concerns far behind you by replacing the gun with a two-trigger Coach Gun Supreme (which you will LOVE!). The two-trigger models are very reliable, time tested, wonderfully made guns.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/ThreeCoachGuns.jpg

As for external hammers... I much prefer internal, myself, as the gun is much less prone to snagging or hammer breakage. No worries about the springs being cocked... I've had them cocked for years in my Stoegers with no ill effect. Modern springs suffer very little from being stored compressed... they're actually worn much more from use (repeated compression and release) than from remaining in a steady state. And springs are quite replaceable if need be.

And if you simply must store them without springs cocked, just use snap caps... they're cheap and readily available.

Shortimer
05-26-2010, 20:06
Check out Pioneer Arms Corp 12 ga SxS. Rust blued barrels, Greener locking action, heavy duty barrels, forearm & stock cut from the same blk of wood, checkering, exposed hammers, 18.5 in barrels & double triggers

DHart
05-26-2010, 20:11
Check out Pioneer Arms Corp 12 ga SxS. Rust blued barrels, Greener locking action, heavy duty barrels, forearm & stock cut from the same blk of wood, checkering, exposed hammers, 18.5 in barrels & double triggers

Shortimer... where are you buying/checking these out? Any good sources of info that you recommend?

DHart
05-26-2010, 20:16
Check out Pioneer Arms Corp 12 ga SxS. Rust blued barrels, Greener locking action, heavy duty barrels, forearm & stock cut from the same blk of wood, checkering, exposed hammers, 18.5 in barrels & double triggers

$1300 gun. But nice. Here's the link

http://www.pioneer-pac.com

Alaskapopo
05-26-2010, 22:51
Talk me out of it. Does anybody have one? Likes dislikes? I would probably set it up for a home gun. Already have three Mossbergs.

I'm being drawn to it but it doesn't seem too functional being a two shooter instead of six or seven.

I don't think two is enough.
Pat

Bullman
05-27-2010, 08:51
I think you are probably right Pat, for the simple reason that in order to become deadly efficient with it, most people are going to have to pour an incredible amount of training into the operation of using and reloading that weapon to be dangerous. Someone that uses one in Cowboy Action shooting a lot, might do okay with it. I remember in law enforcement when we were limited to six rounds in the gun, you practiced your reloads, used speedloaders if you could and hoped for the best. Look at someone like Jerry Miculek, no one would want to face off with him in a gun fight, even if it was 3 on one just because he is so damn fast.

But for the most part I agree with you, two is not enough.

DHart
05-27-2010, 13:48
Is two enough?

Obviously there is no answer to how many is enough. What it comes down to for me is this. For military, police, people who run with dangerous people two is probably never enough. For a typical, law-abiding, quiet living home owner, living in a relatively safe area, two rounds of 12 gauge 00 Buck shot is likely to be enough.

I'm in the latter category. I will always choose a higher capacity pump when that is convenient. But I still keep a loaded double around just in case it might be handy or useful. They handle MUCH quicker and more nimble than a stocked pump.

And when I travel with overnight stays, where typically in the past I would only bring a pistol... I now ALSO bring the coach gun in a small case. The Coach Gun in take-down is so easy to travel with. And in rare locales where my pistol might present a legal challenge (I am licensed for CCW by WA, OR, and UT), the 12 gauge double may be the only legal option for the night.

If one should need to defend oneself against a motel intruder or something like that, it's much better having a two-shot 12 gauge shotgun and a pistol than only a pistol!

Bullman
05-27-2010, 15:03
And I would tend to agree with you there DHart. I particularly like how you brought that up about them being good travel shotguns. And two shots is better than none.

Alaskapopo
05-27-2010, 17:45
Is two enough?

Obviously there is no answer to how many is enough. What it comes down to for me is this. For military, police, people who run with dangerous people two is probably never enough. For a typical, law-abiding, quiet living home owner, living in a relatively safe area, two rounds of 12 gauge 00 Buck shot is likely to be enough.

I'm in the latter category. I will always choose a higher capacity pump when that is convenient. But I still keep a loaded double around just in case it might be handy or useful. They handle MUCH quicker and more nimble than a stocked pump.

And when I travel with overnight stays, where typically in the past I would only bring a pistol... I now ALSO bring the coach gun in a small case. The Coach Gun in take-down is so easy to travel with. And in rare locales where my pistol might present a legal challenge (I am licensed for CCW by WA, OR, and UT), the 12 gauge double may be the only legal option for the night.

If one should need to defend oneself against a motel intruder or something like that, it's much better having a two-shot 12 gauge shotgun and a pistol than only a pistol!

With respect. I disagree. Even for the typical home owner I don't believe 2 is enough. The current stats for hit ratio's with trained police officers is int he 25% range. I imagine the typical home owner average will be a bit worse. So unless they are better trained they may miss with 1 out of 4 shots. So 2 is not enough even for one attacker. Given the fact most bad guys work in groups these days its definately not enough. Granted this is my opinion and 2 shots is better than 1 or none.
Pat

DHart
05-28-2010, 04:59
AKpopo.... we don't disagree. My primary shotguns are all "repeaters" (500, 590, 1100CM, and an 870 Police on order). 2-shots may well be enough to stop the aggression, or not. There's no telling the answer to that for a given personal defense situation.

If I'm EXPECTING highly likely trouble in a big way (like I'm in the police or military or a drug gang) then surely I will go the extra mile to be armed to the teeth with the highest capacity I can get my hands on! (Probably still like having a coach gun around too!)

I don't think anyone here is saying that a double is the better choice than a pump for your primary shotgun... just that a double 12 ga. can be (and no doubt has been countless times over the last 130 or so years) a formidible defense weapon in and of itself! Especially in the hands of someone who knows it and shoots it well!

But when you're traveling, as an ordinary citizen, if you are like many of us on this forum, you probably would just take a pistol with you. Now assume you are in your motel room for the evening. Would you feel more comfortable having ONLY a pistol ~or~ would you prefer to have a pistol and a 12 ga. double loaded with 00 Buckshot?

Me, I like having the coach gun in addition to the pistol. That's all I'm saying. Would I prefer a 500 or a 590 and a pistol to the Coach Gun and a pistol... sure, but I'm not so likely to bring the bigger and heavier shotgun, or a rifle, or grenade launcher on a simple road trip. ;)

The coach gun may only fire two rounds before a reload, but those two loads of 00 Buck can be devastatingly decisive. I'm not saying that when I have my choice of shotguns around me at home that I'd necessarily prefer the two-shot to the six-or nine-shot. I just wouldn't be too quick to discount the ability of a double, in the right hands, to solve a defense problem.

Alaskapopo
05-28-2010, 12:24
Ok got it.
Pat
AKpopo.... we don't disagree. My primary shotguns are all "repeaters" (500, 590, 1100CM, and an 870 Police on order). 2-shots may well be enough to stop the aggression, or not. There's no telling the answer to that for a given personal defense situation.

If I'm EXPECTING highly likely trouble in a big way (like I'm in the police or military or a drug gang) then surely I will go the extra mile to be armed to the teeth with the highest capacity I can get my hands on! (Probably still like having a coach gun around too!)

I don't think anyone here is saying that a double is the better choice than a pump for your primary shotgun... just that a double 12 ga. can be (and no doubt has been countless times over the last 130 or so years) a formidible defense weapon in and of itself! Especially in the hands of someone who knows it and shoots it well!

But when you're traveling, as an ordinary citizen, if you are like many of us on this forum, you probably would just take a pistol with you. Now assume you are in your motel room for the evening. Would you feel more comfortable having ONLY a pistol ~or~ would you prefer to have a pistol and a 12 ga. double loaded with 00 Buckshot?

Me, I like having the coach gun in addition to the pistol. That's all I'm saying. Would I prefer a 500 or a 590 and a pistol to the Coach Gun and a pistol... sure, but I'm not so likely to bring the bigger and heavier shotgun, or a rifle, or grenade launcher on a simple road trip. ;)

The coach gun may only fire two rounds before a reload, but those two loads of 00 Buck can be devastatingly decisive. I'm not saying that when I have my choice of shotguns around me at home that I'd necessarily prefer the two-shot to the six-or nine-shot. I just wouldn't be too quick to discount the ability of a double, in the right hands, to solve a defense problem.

ScrappyDoo
05-28-2010, 14:45
The wise sage muse poet Ice Cube said it best. I can't even call it, or say it any better. Only confer his wise sage muse poet wisdom on all of us:

"Anybody seen the PoPo? Lemme know."


:)

Alaskapopo
05-28-2010, 20:38
The wise sage muse poet Ice Cube said it best. I can't even call it, or say it any better. Only confer his wise sage muse poet wisdom on all of us:

"Anybody seen the PoPo? Lemme know."


:)

It appears that the old banned poster Nemisis is back. I let the mods know.
Pat

MAGICMANIA
05-29-2010, 02:06
It appears that the old banned poster Nemisis is back. I let the mods know.
Pat

I was going to say maybe Gecko 45 by his other posts, but I could be wrong. His posts in general are no help and make no sense, I am sure there will be a reply shortly with horrible grammar and other rambling crap.

kirgi08
05-29-2010, 02:51
:popcorn:

Bullman,I will await your superior knowledge.'08. :dunno:

Bullman
05-29-2010, 04:05
You may be waiting a while on that one. :supergrin:

I don't know that I have any superior knowledge about this or not. I do find it somewhat coincidental that our recent troll poster is named Nemesis. Obviously has a very high opinion of himself:upeyes:

I don't know that I have any superior knowledge about anything for that matter, I am certain that you will find some people out there that agree on that account.

kirgi08
05-29-2010, 05:25
Bull,I've never seen a post by the above mentioned "troll"...'08. :dunno:

BTW,youse know yer sheet,the .5 makes you fold them on laundry day. :whistling:

PM me.

Bullman
05-29-2010, 11:26
I even folded one for the MIL the other day :supergrin:

ScrappyDoo
05-29-2010, 13:27
You guys are freakin kidding me right? Uh no... I'm not anybody else... I'm the same person I was when I found this site back in January when I bought my first Glock... you know, when it was time to stop using the family's collection and buy my own... And having a father who's pretty much higher ranking and more famous that most everyone else, I figured it was my right of passage...

Magic, I'm sorry, bad grammar and spelling? I am pretty sure I have more proper grammar and spelling than you, and most, and I'm pretty sure I'm more educated than you, but here, let me demonstrate:

I was going to say maybe Gecko 45 by his other posts, but I could be wrong. His posts, in general, are no help, and make no sense, I am sure there will be a reply shortly, with horrible grammar, and other rambling crap.

I took the liberty of simply inserting some punctuation marks in your post. Merely a few commas, to separate your thoughts and interjections within your run-on sentences... I tried to put them in BOLD so you could notice them better... and I hesitated and refrained from going further into detail of your grammar, verb conjugation, etc... Didn't want to use too much too soon.

Alaskapopo, I am actually honestly sorry, I didn't mean to upset you, here on the East Coast the police don't get so upset at innocent jokes...I'm used to being able to joke with 500 guys formerly under Dad's command, I thought you would understand.

Also Bullman too, didnt' mean to insult you, as also a LEO, if my joking did I did not intend to insult you or any other LEO's... and certainly not troll... I bought the two most popular, famous, and certainly expensive shotguns recommended on this very forum in the past 3 months, based on no small part on a few of my more friendly posters here, recommendations. So I don't troll here... I feel like, having bought two based on a few friendly people's here recommendations, I can, you know, take a little liberty here and there. Sorry if I offended again.

MAGICMANIA
05-29-2010, 15:34
:rofl::popcorn::upeyes:

Bullman
05-29-2010, 15:42
I don't think I was talking about you Scrappy, I was mentioning Nemesis. In any event I don't get offended much so I ain't worried about it if you aren't.