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Fire_Medic
04-29-2010, 19:13
So today I scored (3) 20 Round boxes of 200gr Black Talon HP's that the range owner found cleaning out the ammo room. They were his dads a while back. All the ammo looks fine and was stored in a controlled environment. I don't know whether to carry it, or just save it. Never even knew Black Talon's were made in 10mm until today.

Just wanted to share.......

:pepper:

G33
04-29-2010, 19:28
:supergrin::wavey:

samurairabbi
04-29-2010, 22:14
The ammo collectors will go bonkers for that 10mm Black Talon stuff! Don't shoot it; it is too valuable to shoot!

panzer1
04-29-2010, 23:01
The ammo collectors will go bonkers for that 10mm Black Talon stuff! Don't shoot it; it is too valuable to shoot!Realy wow. I came across a box at a gunshow if I knew that I would have picked it up was thinking that at the time.It was like $20.00 for 20 rounds but I don't have a 10mm so I passed it up.

Hogpauls
04-29-2010, 23:37
Dude, first you drop that little jewel of a score on the 29 and now this?
You must have a bunch of rabbits hobbling around on stumps looking for you. Next time you are in the Northwest get ahold of me, I need a good deal on a new truck!:supergrin:

samurairabbi
04-30-2010, 03:41
Yeah, I might be tempted to mug you for those 3 boxes of 10mm Black Talons, but I retain some perspective on the situation, for I own a box of 20 BTs in 30-06. One cannot get TOO greedy!

SAWMAN
04-30-2010, 05:40
.......I'd say that if you got them BT's for <$35-$40 per box and they were the "ORIGINAL" BT's,then you sir,got yourself one heck of a deal.

I have 4 or 5 boxes of BT's in 10mm,6 in 44mag,and about 8 in 45ACP(my EDC load in my Kimber)that i collected waaaaay back before they became the "cop killer" that they are today. Several of the boxes still have the original price tag of $12 attached to them.

Re. the 10mm BT's,I hunt with a guy that shoots a 7" Javelina when we have a pistol hog hunt. I have seen this round absolutely hammer the larger hogs. He killed a 260# sow last year with one shot to the shoulder. Don't dismiss them BT's for hunting or carry.

Retired Squid
04-30-2010, 05:44
From what I remember about the BT in 10 mm the one complaint was that they were loaded at 1050 to 1100 FPS range instead of like original Norma rounds which was in 1500 FPS range IIRC for bullet that weight range. I seem to remember some discussion that the round was just barely fast enough to ensure proper mushrooming, not sure of the truth of the matter as it was gun rag stuff and we all know how those are when it comes to manufactures. I haven't bought a gun rag since about '95/'96 I guess.

I would auction or put up for sale here. I saw some BT last year bring $60 for box of 20 9mm and some 45ACP that was $80 at a gun show. I almost choked on my Coke Cola when was told the price. :wow:

samurairabbi
04-30-2010, 09:00
It is amusing how much of a hold the Black Talon still has on the public's imagination. I have a sideline teaching handgun usage; the question I get most often from new shooters is "What was the Black Talon all about?" I got lucky at a gunshow and was able to buy BOTH an unexpanded BT bullet AND a perfectly expanded one in the same caliber. Those are my most used visual aids.

SAWMAN
04-30-2010, 09:28
Can't remember exactly what the "published" velocity of the Norma load was but will guarantee it was nowhere near 1500fps.

The original Black Talons were loaded on the medium/warm side and not hot. This,I believe,because of the bullet design,which was the first of it's kind. It was called a reverse taper jacket. The jacket was thicker up front instead of the other way around. To me this makes the penetration superb over a faster muzzle velocity. Sometimes we all gotta realize that the bestest aint always the fastest.

For my hunting load, in my Glock20 with a 6" OEM bbl, I use Double Taps 200gr WFNGC's. My second choice would surely be the BT's.

Fire_Medic
04-30-2010, 09:39
Well I'm happy with my buy, got them mainly because I have never seen any in 10mm so figured worse that could happen is down the road I make some money on them.

Here's a pic:

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k366/ffgabe/IMG_1656.jpg

Retired Squid
04-30-2010, 10:38
Can't remember exactly what the "published" velocity of the Norma load was but will guarantee it was nowhere near 1500fps.

I seem to think it was about 1350 for the 200 gr, think their 170gr was 1450 to 1550 range. I do seem to remember they had one offering in the 1550/1650 range but don't remember bullet weight, 135 or 155 grain maybe. Probably 135 grain offering as I load Nosler 135 that will be 1650/1675 FPS range and consider those warm, not hot. They don't even deform in stock Glock barrel, would like to go a little hotter but not with the Glock, maybe the Colt Delta Elite. But really looking forward to tweaking some for the G2 Contender.

3rdgen40
04-30-2010, 10:42
I don't know whether to carry it, or just save it.
Take that old crap to the range and shoot it.It pales in comparison to modern defensive ammo,which is far superior to that out dated stuff...:tongueout:

RyeDaddy
04-30-2010, 14:23
I seem to think it was about 1350 for the 200 gr, think their 170gr was 1450 to 1550 range.

Just for information's sake, I have some boxes of the old Norma 10mm ammo. The 170's are labeled 1300 FPS, and the 200 grainers were 1200FPS. Haven't chrono'd them, but the 170's I've shot out my G20 hit exactly to point of aim, and the recoil suggests that the box label is accurate. Not sure what the manufacture date is, but I've heard from others that the very first batch of 170's were labeled 1400FPS, but were over pressure. Not sure of the accuracy of that.

hill billy
04-30-2010, 14:31
Just for information's sake, I have some boxes of the old Norma 10mm ammo. The 170's are labeled 1300 FPS, and the 200 grainers were 1200FPS. Haven't chrono'd them, but the 170's I've shot out my G20 hit exactly to point of aim, and the recoil suggests that the box label is accurate. Not sure what the manufacture date is, but I've heard from others that the very first batch of 170's were labeled 1400FPS, but were over pressure. Not sure of the accuracy of that.

1400 fps isn't hard to accomplish but it is pushing the envelope. Especially if it is a true 170 versus a 180.

SAWMAN
04-30-2010, 14:35
RyeDaddy --->seems that the vels that you stated was 'bout what I remember. Not hot but a good solid load for what you bought a 10mm for.

Fire_Medic --->make sure to keep the boxes as pristine as possible and the rds in the styrofoam insert. Without that, the rds are pretty well worthless to a collector.

I see the pistol BT's going for as much as $50 per box at some gunshows. Check out the prices on GunBroker.com. Yeeeeeowza !!

Retired Squid
04-30-2010, 15:03
Just for information's sake, I have some boxes of the old Norma 10mm ammo. The 170's are labeled 1300 FPS, and the 200 grainers were 1200FPS. Haven't chrono'd them, but the 170's I've shot out my G20 hit exactly to point of aim, and the recoil suggests that the box label is accurate. Not sure what the manufacture date is, but I've heard from others that the very first batch of 170's were labeled 1400FPS, but were over pressure. Not sure of the accuracy of that.Thanks for the correction man been years since I read the info and find it amazing that I remembered as much and not that far off and half time I can't find my car keys or remember to get my wallet. :whistling:

Fire_Medic
04-30-2010, 16:51
RyeDaddy --->seems that the vels that you stated was 'bout what I remember. Not hot but a good solid load for what you bought a 10mm for.

Fire_Medic --->make sure to keep the boxes as pristine as possible and the rds in the styrofoam insert. Without that, the rds are pretty well worthless to a collector.

I see the pistol BT's going for as much as $50 per box at some gunshows. Check out the prices on GunBroker.com. Yeeeeeowza !!

Thanks yeah I saw some of the same ammo I have on Gunbroker for $130, lol. Not that anyone would pay that much.
:faint:

Retired Squid
04-30-2010, 17:11
Thanks yeah I saw some of the same ammo I have on Gunbroker for $130, lol. Not that anyone would pay that much.
:faint:

Man you don't know collectors, I've seen people paying as much as $150 for some odd or old ammo. Had a friend pay $75 for a box of 351 Winchester just to have some shooting ammo for a collector gun of his, he didn't want the collectible ammo that was twice price. Man paying a $1.50 a round to shoot a round similar to a light loaded 357 magnum is crazy in my book, but I guess if you got the money....who cares.

Fire_Medic
04-30-2010, 17:33
Man you don't know collectors, I've seen people paying as much as $150 for some odd or old ammo. Had a friend pay $75 for a box of 351 Winchester just to have some shooting ammo for a collector gun of his, he didn't want the collectible ammo that was twice price. Man paying a $1.50 a round to shoot a round similar to a light loaded 357 magnum is crazy in my book, but I guess if you got the money....who cares.

Guess I'll hold onto it for a while and then sell one or two of the boxes on Gunbroker, lol.

faawrenchbndr
05-01-2010, 19:32
Uh,.......Winchester Ranger "T" series is the same daYUmn ammo,....just NOT black!:whistling:

samurairabbi
05-01-2010, 19:50
Uh,.......Winchester Ranger "T" series is the same daYUmn ammo,....just NOT black!:whistling:

True ... It is the same ammo as Black Talon, but it is not THE Black Talon ammo! That sort of daYUmn difference is important to collectors. Irrational, perhaps, but wacky things like that are common.

faawrenchbndr
05-01-2010, 20:46
True ... It is the same ammo as Black Talon, but it is not THE Black Talon ammo! That sort of daYUmn difference is important to collectors. Irrational, perhaps, but wacky things like that are common.

True,.......it's a Black Trans Am,...NOT a gold one! :rofl::rofl:
Black Tallon ammi is not worth the over inflated "collector" cost.

SAWMAN
05-02-2010, 08:40
Ummmmm......if Ranger"T" Series ammo is the same as Black Talon,ummmmm,how come it is selling for a third the price.

Wait....I'll tell ya....cuz it aint the same. (Go figure !)

Put some of that Ranger crap in a true Black Talon Box and try to sell it. See how much you get(if not falsely advertised).

I see people on GB marketing Ranger stuff as "Black Talon",they should be ashamed of themselves. BUYER BEWARE !!

samurairabbi
05-02-2010, 10:23
I see people on GB marketing Ranger stuff as "Black Talon",they should be ashamed of themselves. BUYER BEWARE !!
Hmmmm ... Someone buys Black Talon ammo that is NOT black! In poker terms, that color difference would rank as an "obvious tell".