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zukyota
05-02-2010, 16:12
For hd what would be better pump or auto ? Is it personal preferance or is one better than the other ? Anyone have a pistol grip or folding stock auto ? Newb to hd shotguns & looking for advice.

pilsbury
05-02-2010, 16:27
Hard to beat an 870. Autoloaders, even the best, jam once in a while. Youre trusting your life and your family's life to it, so for me, the pump is the way to go..
Check us out for 870 grips, stocks, magazine extensions, and forends-Choate machine & Tool

aippi
05-02-2010, 16:31
when you use an auto, any auto, you are also trusting the ammo as that is what cycles the next round. In an auto, any auto, there are more parts and more for Mr. Murhpy to mess with. Gas autos have be shouldered solid to ensure the next round cycles and that will not always be the case in a fight.

Pumps, any pumps, are more reliable in a gun fight. That is not opinion, that is fact and based on the design of the weapons.

triggerjerk
05-02-2010, 16:54
There's no short stroking an auto under stress.
Keep enough quality ammo on hand and there is no issue.

GAFinch
05-02-2010, 17:42
No pistol grips or folding stocks for semi-auto shotguns.

pilsbury
05-02-2010, 17:46
No pistol grips or folding stocks for semi-auto shotguns.

Semi autos have a gas tube that protrude out of the back of the receicer.

DeltaNu1142
05-02-2010, 17:58
Hard to beat an 870. Autoloaders, even the best, jam once in a while. Youre trusting your life and your family's life to it, so for me, the pump is the way to go..
Check us out for 870 grips, stocks, magazine extensions, and forends-Choate machine & Tool
Who is "us"? I'm closing in on finishing my 870 tactical build, but I could always be tempted by something else...!

In keeping with the thread subject--for HD, what's a more effective deterrent than racking that pump-action slide (other than actually aiming it)?

mixflip
05-02-2010, 18:25
I am not an expert. My personal experience with both pump and autos... My auto loader loaded with hi brass defensive 00-buck has yet to malfunction even when shot under stress and odd positions. Not once...not yet anyway.

I have short shucked my pump when running & gunning and shooting from odd positions but that doesn't mean I dont like it any less.

A handgun can be limp wristed and pump shotguns can be short shucked and an auto loaders can fail to cycle ect ect...train to use what ever you decide to buy and learn to work through malfunctions rather than plan to never have a malfunction.

I own both pump & autoloader and practice malfunction drills just because I feel I need to know what to do. My Glock may malfunction some day and I practice tap rack bang drills for the same reasons...even Glocks malfunction!!! lol.

pilsbury
05-02-2010, 18:34
Who is "us"? I'm closing in on finishing my 870 tactical build, but I could always be tempted by something else...!

In keeping with the thread subject--for HD, what's a more effective deterrent than racking that pump-action slide (other than actually aiming it)?


"Us" is Choate Machine & Tool.

riflestock.com

DeltaNu1142
05-02-2010, 18:40
Thanks! I checked your profile but didn't see anything. Maybe put this URL there!

2 Hawks
05-02-2010, 18:56
Semi autos have a gas tube that protrude out of the back of the receicer.

That would be the action spring tube:whistling:.

GreyEclipse
05-02-2010, 19:14
I prefer pumps just for the BA factor. But I also own a semi-auto. It's more for fun than HD though. I'd trust either gun, both are great for the money.

pilsbury
05-02-2010, 19:26
That would be the action spring tube:whistling:.

the Remington 1100 is operated by a gas tube sir-
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh23-e.ht

mixflip
05-02-2010, 20:11
the Remington 1100 is operated by a gas tube sir-
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh23-e.ht


He said a gas tube sticks out the back? Its called a recoil assembly spring and tube. Not a gas tube that sits in the butt stock.

pilsbury
05-02-2010, 20:30
He said a gas tube sticks out the back? Its called a recoil assembly spring and tube. Not a gas tube that sits in the butt stock.

OK. Very good. But i said a gas tube that protrudes out of the back of the receiver, not a gas tube that sits in the buttstock. In any event, it would be hard to put a pistol grip on an automatic with the gas tube recoil assembly spring tube attached to the back of the receiver. Gee.

aippi
05-02-2010, 22:32
The guy that said "Action Spring Tube" is correct as that is the exact name of that part. I would think some of you would take the time to learn the parts and proper names of them since you are going to be responding to post and would want people to understand your point. The 1100 is not operated by a gas tube. It is operated by a gas piston that rides on the magazine tube and moves the action to the rear. The action spring then forces the action forward. All this mess is just somthing else that you have to stake your life on when using a gas operated semi-auto shotgun. If you can't see that a pump is more dependable by simply looking at the design and operation of each weapon then you will just not get it.

NDC187
05-03-2010, 01:14
This debate is historical. It goes back in time...just not sure how far.

1st: Most HD, tactical shotguns are pump for reliability of feeding. Most auto shotguns on the market today are very dependable, however.

2nd: The "trigger happy" issue. It does exist and is documented. Going a little crazy with an auto shotgun can be fun but it is a powerful weapon in close quarters.

As far as a stock goes, personal preference. I do not like pistol grips on anything but a pistol. A shotgun has a considerate amount of recoil. You can either have your hand absorb it or your shoulder. It's a no brainier to me. Pistol grips are commonly used for door breaching and ease of carrying on an assault pack. I didn't mention vehicle operations because I would not choose a pistol grip shotty for that scenario :shocked:

The best of both worlds is an adjustable stock and this is what I use. 2nd issue of the traditional shotgun is it carries most it's weight upfront when it's fully loaded due to mag tube. More shells, the longer the tube = more weight weak hand carries. I'm happy with 5-6 shells :supergrin:

mixflip
05-03-2010, 02:30
OK. Very good. But i said a gas tube that protrudes out of the back of the receiver, not a gas tube that sits in the buttstock. In any event, it would be hard to put a pistol grip on an automatic with the gas tube recoil assembly spring tube attached to the back of the receiver. Gee.

Sorry bro, I didnt mean any harm. I see your point which was the same as mine essentially.

vafish
05-03-2010, 08:35
Modern semi auto shotguns are very reliable. Just like modern semi auto handguns are reliable. But you have to test both of them thoroughly with your defensive ammo to ensure they cycle reliably.

Pump action shotguns are more reliable and handle a wider variation of shells, but they must be operated properly. Short stroke a pump action shotgun under pressure and you have a mess on your hands. Hopefully your pistol will be nearby.

I just spent this weekend with my sons Boy Scout troop on a shooting camp out. We put 2,000 rounds of light #8 loads through various 20 ga and 12 ga shotguns mostly Mossberg pumps and Remington 1100 semi autos. The only shotgun that had a feeding problem was a 14" Benelli M2 that a LE dad brought along. It would not cycle light bird shot or some reduced recoil slugs. The full power stuff it was fine with.

I'm coming up on 46 years old, I've been shooting pump action shotguns since I was 8. I hunt with them and I shoot trap and skeet with them (including doubles), I am very intimate with the pump action and don't worry about short stroking it. I prefer a pump action shotgun for home defense.

I also think that if someone has a semi auto shotgun for home defense and they have tested it for reliability with their home defense loads that it will work fine for them.

DaGroaner
05-03-2010, 08:49
For me it's like asking auto-loading pistol or single-action revolver. You can put an Ace folding stock on a Saiga. I prefer an M-4 style collapsible stock myself.

KalashniKEV
05-03-2010, 09:04
The strength of the shotgun is in the versatility of it's loads just as much as the stopping power. Pump guns make it easy to swap loads tactically and sent the right stuff every time. The variances between slug, shot, specialty, and non-lethal are what makes it kind of tricky to design a gas system that works 100% all the time.

It all goes back to your defense philosophy. If you're only going to send 00 buck, then an auto will do. If you want to send a non-lethal- then follow it up with another, or drop a non-lethal and move straight to lethal response, then it's much easier to do with the pump.

Lastly, pump guns are super cheap and everywhere... and are easily sourced from garage sales, the local paper, Walmart, PD trade ins, gifts/hand-me-downs/inherited...

skynyrd1911
05-03-2010, 10:45
I short stroked a pump once while under stress. Second shot on a deer I missed with the first. I can just imagine how it would feel if it had happened to be a HD scenario. I've been an auto fan since. Keep her clean and use good ammo. That's just me though.

David Armstrong
05-03-2010, 11:02
My $.02: If you are willing to put in the time and effort to learn it well, the auto is a better choice. Most folks are not willing to put in the time and effort, however, so I tend to push the pump as their better choice. I do the same with handguns, BTW...autos for those who are willing to devote the time to learning them, revolvers for those who want to buy the gun, shoot a cylinder or two through it, then put it away.

Do not put pistol grips or folding stocks on the HD shotgun, or assorted other things.

2 Hawks
05-03-2010, 20:56
I short stroked a pump once while under stress. Second shot on a deer I missed with the first. I can just imagine how it would feel if it had happened to be a HD scenario. I've been an auto fan since. Keep her clean and use good ammo. That's just me though.

That would be a training issue not the weapons fault. And yes while under stress is where you'll see a lack of training "fail"..
Be familiar with both weapon systems auto or pump and keep your skills up to par you should perform will under stress. You can rock with the auto or the pump, the choice is yours.

2 Hawks
05-03-2010, 20:59
the guy that said "action spring tube" is correct as that is the exact name of that part. I would think some of you would take the time to learn the parts and proper names of them since you are going to be responding to post and would want people to understand your point. The 1100 is not operated by a gas tube. It is operated by a gas piston that rides on the magazine tube and moves the action to the rear. The action spring then forces the action forward. All this mess is just somthing else that you have to stake your life on when using a gas operated semi-auto shotgun. If you can't see that a pump is more dependable by simply looking at the design and operation of each weapon then you will just not get it.

+1000

KalashniKEV
05-04-2010, 02:44
while under stress is where you'll see a lack of training "fail"..


+1000

frankr
05-04-2010, 03:13
Mossberg 930 SPX, 900 shells put through my gun to date which were a mix of low brass Dove loads, high brass hunting loads, slugs and 00 buck. Rapid fire or slow not one malfunction. I keep my 8 shot auto with chamber empty and 7 shells of 00 buck in the magazine.

pilsbury
05-04-2010, 05:38
Sorry bro, I didnt mean any harm. I see your point which was the same as mine essentially.

no offense taken my man. This is always what I called it since I was a wee lad, the link I posted refers to it as that also.

bigdogmurph
05-04-2010, 05:50
Pump! rack the slide and a BG knows what he is dealing with and if not a total idiot he will leave ASAP.

vafish
05-04-2010, 06:33
Pump! rack the slide and a BG knows what he is dealing with and if not a total idiot he will leave ASAP.

If you are dealing with a rational human being. Unfortunately many home invaders are not rational human beings they are more than likely a drugged up animal. The sound of racking the slide will have no effect on them.

David Armstrong
05-04-2010, 09:49
Pump! rack the slide and a BG knows what he is dealing with and if not a total idiot he will leave ASAP.

Yes, just like racking the slide on your Glock will cause them to leave, or working the lever on you Winchester 94 will cause them to leave, or simply saying loudly "I have called the police and I have a gun. Leave my house now!" will cause them to leave. Most BGs will leave when there is any indication they have been discovered and the homeowner is ready for them. Those that won't leave when yelled at probably won't leave because you rack a shotgun.

DaGroaner
05-04-2010, 09:51
If you are dealing with a rational human being. Unfortunately many home invaders are not rational human beings they are more than likely a drugged up animal. The sound of racking the slide will have no effect on them.

Or if the BG has a sense of humor it might get him to rack his slide back.

KalashniKEV
05-04-2010, 16:36
Or if the BG has a sense of humor it might get him to rack his slide back.

+1000

If it was me, I'd assume that by running I'd only get shot in the back.

Best options would be:

1) Shoot in the direction of the noise. No bonus points are awarded for actually seeing your victim. Dump your first mag and then reload.

2) Look for the indication of a kids room and take a hostage, he's not going to shoot you with a shotgun if you're backing out the door with a knife to a child's throat.

3) Hide. Watch wait and listen to see if he goes back to bed, calls the police, or moves around to clear the house. Take the gun away if he's moving, or rush him after he gets back in bed.

Tipping the badguy off that you're armed and aware is a major escalation of force. It's generally looked upon as teh FAIL.

David Armstrong
05-04-2010, 17:45
Tipping the badguy off that you're armed and aware is a major escalation of force. It's generally looked upon as teh FAIL.
Actually, letting the BG know you are armed and aware has been shown to be one of the most effective responses you can use, particularly in the home.

WayaX
05-04-2010, 18:58
Where is the "use the search feature" crowd, and the "oh geez, not this crap again" people?

This subject has been beaten to death, cremated, and scattered.

Oh well...here's my 2 pesos.

Modern, quality semi-auto shotguns are absolutely reliable. You have a semi-auto pistol, a semi-auto rifle, so why the pump shotgun? Did you know pump shotguns can jam, too? In a high stress situation, someone who hasn't trained with a pump can easily short-stroke the gun.

Relying on the noise to scare off an intruder is an unreliable strategy. Unreliable strategies are bad and put way to much chance in the unkown. It may work on some meth-head looking for your stash of pseudophed. It probably won't work on someone intent on a home invasion. I wouldn't take my chances relying on it.

That being said, my ideal home defense gun is a rifle or a pistol, not a shotgun.

DaGroaner
05-04-2010, 19:34
Actually, letting the BG know you are armed and aware has been shown to be one of the most effective responses you can use, particularly in the home.

Got a cite for that?

Folsom_Prison
05-05-2010, 23:58
IMHO I look at a pump like a revolver. If u have a pump SG ur in control such as a revolver the revolver is not gonna jam or have any issues. A semi auto SG could jam and have feeding problems. But the pump is going to work everytime just like a revolver. Your gonna be in control of the pump and honestly how long does it take to pump a SG.

MTPD
05-06-2010, 08:36
The problem with pumps is you need both hands to operate them

The problem with autos is they won't function properly with all types of shells, low recoil LE buckshot shells in particular are "iffy".

MTPD
05-06-2010, 08:38
Actually, letting the BG know you are armed and aware has been shown to be one of the most effective responses you can use, particularly in the home.

Is it more effective than a load of OO BUCK delivered COM??? :upeyes:

David Armstrong
05-06-2010, 08:43
Got a cite for that?
Yes. Why, do you think that once the BG knows you have a gun, are ready and waiting for him, and that the police are coming tends to make them stick around?

David Armstrong
05-06-2010, 08:48
Is it more effective than a load of OO BUCK delivered COM??? :upeyes:
Depends. If the situation could have been resolved without the load of Buck COM, yes, it is more effective.

For those of you who are not aware of MTPD and his "advice", please visit http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1215573

DaGroaner
05-06-2010, 15:11
Yes. Why, do you think that once the BG knows you have a gun, are ready and waiting for him, and that the police are coming tends to make them stick around?

I was wondering if you had read a study on it or something that included variables like is the intruder armed or not. Rural vs. urban setting. What was the intruder's intent, burglary vs. murder or rape or whatever. Now it appears that you just make up your "facts" as you go along.

DaGroaner
05-06-2010, 15:23
Depends. If the situation could have been resolved without the load of Buck COM, yes, it is more effective.

For those of you who are not aware of MTPD and his "advice", please visit http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1215573

What's the old saying about glass houses and rock throwing?

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1199768&page=5

jrs93accord
05-06-2010, 19:57
Why not the best of both worlds? The only question is, do I semi or do I pump? Hmmmm?

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/jamesrea09/jamesrea10/002-5.jpg

I do have my ever trustworthy 870 though.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/jamesrea09/jamesrea10/001-6.jpg

David Armstrong
05-07-2010, 10:02
I was wondering if you had read a study on it or something that included variables like is the intruder armed or not. Rural vs. urban setting. What was the intruder's intent, burglary vs. murder or rape or whatever. Now it appears that you just make up your "facts" as you go along.
No, it appears that I often decline to go dig up sources for what is (or should be) common knowledge for anyone with any experience in the field or who wants to carry on a reasonable discussion. I have read numerous studies on it. It has been pointed out in works from Kleck, Mauser, Gertz, Wright, Rossi, and many others. The fact that you are unfamiliar with what you choose to talk about is not indicative of anyone else making things up.

David Armstrong
05-07-2010, 10:04
What's the old saying about glass houses and rock throwing?

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1199768&page=5

What, you want to disagree with the fact that all laws are considered to be lawful until the judiciary rules otherwise? I don't think this is the right forum for that, but if you want to try to support such a bizarre position I'll be glad to point out the error of your ways. Personally I think it off-topic and totally irelevant to this thread, but if you want to discuss Constitutional Law I'll be quite happy to share my expertise.

DaGroaner
05-07-2010, 11:23
No, it appears that I often decline to go dig up sources for what is (or should be) common knowledge for anyone with any experience in the field or who wants to carry on a reasonable discussion. I have read numerous studies on it. It has been pointed out in works from Kleck, Mauser, Gertz, Wright, Rossi, and many others. The fact that you are unfamiliar with what you choose to talk about is not indicative of anyone else making things up.

Listen little guy, I never claimed to have any knowledge on the matter. I asked you, the self-described expert, to point me to some. Clearly I was once again wasting my time even talking to the likes of you, the laughing stock of gun forums everywhere. I won't waste my time again.

What, you want to disagree with the fact that all laws are considered to be lawful until the judiciary rules otherwise? I don't think this is the right forum for that, but if you want to try to support such a bizarre position I'll be glad to point out the error of your ways. Personally I think it off-topic and totally irelevant to this thread, but if you want to discuss Constitutional Law I'll be quite happy to share my expertise.

It was easily as relevent as the link you left in response to MTPD. Expertise? Yeah right. You ran away from that thread like a scalded dog when your supposed expertise was found lacking.

Anyway, like I said. Next time I won't bother.

David Armstrong
05-07-2010, 12:54
Listen little guy, I never claimed to have any knowledge on the matter.
perhaps that is where we differ. I do have knowledge on the matter, quite a bit of it in fact. That is why I posted what I posted.
I won't waste my time again.
Thank you, it will be appreciated.
It was easily as relevent as the link you left in response to MTPD.
We are discussing tactics. Therefore one's reputation for tactical advice is quite relevant. Hard to see how experience in Constitutional Law has any bearing on that.
You ran away from that thread like a scalded dog when your supposed expertise was found lacking.
LOL!!! Y'all kept posting claims, I kept pointing out that they were factually incorrect, and then you'd say "well, it doesn't matter" when it was pointed out you were wrong. But if it makes you feel better to see it that way, that's fine, go ahead, and maybe it will stop this nonsensical thread hijacking you seem to enjoy so much.
Anyway, like I said. Next time I won't bother.
We can only hope.

stiletto raggio
05-07-2010, 16:06
+5 for Saigas. Want an autoloader with a fodling stock? Saiga. Want a shotgun with the pistol grip properly placed under the receiver instead of behind it? Saiga. Want tons of quality options for furniture? Saiga. Want faster reloads, higher capacity and less felt recoil? Saiga. Want all of the above for less than a factory "tactical" gun?

It only gets better if you are already familiar with AKs.

DocH
05-22-2010, 11:53
Well,this is my first post on GT in about a century and a half,but this thread (and another one) caught my eye.
I'm going to agree with aippi AND David at the same time. I started on shotguns at age 11 and I am now 65. I agree that the pump is the best all around action type as a defensive shotgun for most people. I also agree with David that there are some good auto loaders out there,but his advice is very sound that if you run an autoloader,you need to know that gun and know it well. Every part terminology and what it's function is,the best way to run and clear malfs in your particular shotgun and so on.

I've been running a 930SPX since August '09. I have run every type of load that I could find except #1 buck. Couldn't find any.:crying:
I have broken the gun down completely,studied it,found some tweaks that can be done to make it a little better,and run the drills with it. I have not cleaned or lubricated it since the first shot I fired from it.
It has been totally reliable in shooting.I have encoun tered some problems when hand cycling rounds through it.This is being addressed currently.

The ghost loading procedure that is so popular with this shotgun does work fine in shooting but I find it to be a little more aggravating than I care to deal with.
Re the other thread I keep it loaded with six in the seven round mag(the spring thread:supergrin:) and a round ghost loaded on the elevator,chamber empty.This is the only time I use the ghost load.Works out well.

The extra rounds are 15 in a shell looped sling with hook attachments that will come off quickly and is adjusted to snap on around my waist should extra rounds be desired. No side saddle.For an autoloader the 930SPX is very light and fast handling for me,as I prefer to keep it. And I have learned this gun well. That's just my own two cents and what works for me and my situation. Flame away if desired.
For constitutional law questions you'll still have to go to David.:cool:

Hello again David,how the heck are you,pard?
See ya'll again in 2110.

David Armstrong
05-22-2010, 13:12
Hey Doc, I'm doing well, how's things on your end? I'm just kicking back for a 3-month vacation, hitting the gym a couple of times a day, trying to decide if I want to buy a new (for me) Porsche or maybe try out a Rolls Royce just for grins and giggles this time. Welcome back, and as always some sage and sound advice. Don't be a stranger, always good to get your input.

DocH
05-22-2010, 13:58
Good for you,David.I can't afford either,but go for the Rolls.Been behind the wheel of one a couple of times. A unique experience.Enjoy the vacation.

TangoFoxtrot
05-29-2010, 01:55
PUMP! more reliable IMHO

Alaskapopo
05-29-2010, 07:43
Hard to beat an 870. Autoloaders, even the best, jam once in a while. Youre trusting your life and your family's life to it, so for me, the pump is the way to go..
Check us out for 870 grips, stocks, magazine extensions, and forends-Choate machine & Tool

A good auto with good ammo does not malfunction anymore than a good pump. In fact a good pump will malfunction more due to user error. (short stroking). I own both and have not had the issues with autos.
Pat

Alaskapopo
05-29-2010, 07:45
Do not put pistol grips or folding stocks on the HD shotgun, or assorted other things.

Bad advice. Nothing wrong with a pistol gripped stock. Especially if you are used to shooting a AR. There are a lot of advantages to a pistol gripped stock. Less wrist fatigue. Better weapon retention etc. A light is a must and so is a side saddle.
Pat

Aceman
05-29-2010, 07:57
Good auto would be my prefered for pure HD purposes. But this will not be a low dollar gun.

Pump is a much more economical tool.

Both are effective, but I've got to give the edge to the auto. However - as said. A good auto is reliable, and a good shooter won't short stroke the pump.

I practice slamming when shooting. I don't know that I can short stroke. I mean - I can - but I practice firing fast and I slam it.

Troy106
06-07-2010, 15:27
I am posting this for the one arm man, so obviously he has an auto,
he finds it hard to pump and shoot with one hand

B Coyote
06-07-2010, 16:54
I have an 870P and an 1187P. I prefer the 870, as the 1187 has given me too many problems.

bc

Ljay
06-07-2010, 17:43
I have an 870P and an 1187P. I prefer the 870, as the 1187 has given me too many problems.

bc

Hum, Maybe its time the 11-87 sees Dr. G Smith, I have had many Rem 1100,s 11-87,s in my life, And I would absolutely trust my life with them,

I only time I ever had a Rem auto jam on me, It was my fault, after disassembly and cleaning my 11-87 I installed the piston bushing backwards:uglylol:

Ljay
06-07-2010, 17:47
Modern, quality semi-auto shotguns are absolutely reliable. You have a semi-auto pistol, a semi-auto rifle, so why the pump shotgun? Did you know pump shotguns can jam, too? In a high stress situation, someone who hasn't trained with a pump can easily short-stroke the gun.

THIS

I love my pumps, But give me the auto,s :rock:

B Coyote
06-07-2010, 18:21
Hum, Maybe its time the 11-87 sees Dr. G Smith, I have had many Rem 1100,s 11-87,s in my life, And I would absolutely trust my life with them,

I only time I ever had a Rem auto jam on me, It was my fault, after disassembly and cleaning my 11-87 I installed the piston bushing backwards:uglylol:

It runs fine with slugs, but it's iffy with all but the heaviest buckshot. Birdshot? Forget about it.

I should send it back to Remington....but really haven't bothered since I have the 870.

bc

VZ1600
06-07-2010, 18:58
what's a more effective deterrent than racking that pump-action slide (other than actually aiming it)?

This does 2 things:
1. Gives away your position. (not smart)
2. Lets the BG know that you JUST NOW realized you needed a loaded gun. (not smart either)

To the OP, I keep both for HD. My primary is my Mossberg 930 SPX and backup is my Mossberg 500A.

And as stated before, keep a quality ammo loading in the auto loader and you will have no issues. Just be sure to put about 100 rounds of the intended HD rounds through it first. You need to be sure of not only reliability but also the pattern of the intended load.

DHart
07-07-2010, 02:31
I'm encouraged by the positive reports of reliability with the semi-autos, but for reasons I've been unable to nail down, that hasn't been entirely the case in my experience.

With a Winchester SX2, FN SLP, and 1100CM, I've had just a few more failures to eject than I was comfortable with... and that with swapping out to different pistons to match the load used, etc.... even on occasion with 00 Buck and squeeky clean shotguns. User error? I don't know... I think I'm fairly capable with a shotgun. Perhaps I just didn't stick it out long enough with any of those guns to get it nailed down... or break them in enough. Don't know.

This has left me with a less than rosy picture of self-loading shotguns for serious defense use and I'm not exactly a novice at this stuff. But ever the optimist, I would considering testing out the 930, after all the great reports I've been reading about this gun.

Ive never had an issue of any kind, however, regardless of the brand or type of load, the temperature outside, the angle of fire, or the type of hold with this time-tested workhorse...

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/500_Out_R.jpg

Therefore, my vote here goes to the pump and at that, the user will need to be able to run a pump very well and rack it like it really matters (and it does!) every time. Pumps are great guns for those who can run them well!