Eaa 10 mm? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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B.Reid
05-03-2010, 19:05
Anyone have one of these? The prices are right but do they hold up? Tell me about it.

TACC GLOCK
05-03-2010, 19:12
For about $400 I was looking to try one also.

HOV
05-04-2010, 07:12
$400 is most of the way to a new G20 or G29. I'd rather get two of the same Glock 10mm pistol than one Glock and one EAA.

Two is one, one is none.

Glocks share mags, barrels, other parts, EAA shares nothing...

B.Reid
05-04-2010, 07:33
$400 is most of the way to a new G20 or G29. I'd rather get two of the same Glock 10mm pistol than one Glock and one EAA.

Two is one, one is none.

Glocks share mags, barrels, other parts, EAA shares nothing...

I already have a G20, no interest in a G29.

why
05-07-2010, 14:23
I have a fullsize metal in 10mm and love it. Also bought the factory 40 bbl for it too. I plan on buying a compact metal Tanfoglio for carry if it is as reliable as my fullsize.
fwiw, I've read that the polymers may be finicky but have no firsthand experience.

Retired Squid
05-07-2010, 14:42
The problem with these guns is if you do need warranty service EAA the importer for Tanfoglio has a very poor reputation. Like many others, been there done that. If not for the importer I would still own one.

preventec47
05-09-2010, 09:44
I too am drawn by the siren song of EAA. To be able to have 15 plus 1 in a full size steel frame attractive pistol manufactured by the Italians that have a good reputation for less than $450 is very very tempting.

My computer screen wall paper has been of a huge closeup of the EAA pistol for quite a while now. Just like pinups of girls when I was a teenager.

B.Reid
05-09-2010, 10:48
So how is the quality of these guns?

Retired Squid
05-09-2010, 11:36
So how is the quality of these guns?Mine was very good, fit and finish was excellent. Accuracy was better them my Para 45ACP, 1006 S&W, Colt 1911 45ACP at 7 yards. Bench rested, at 25 yards the difference was even more apparent, the G-20/29 was not directly compared with my Witness. That said I think the Glock would win out, at least with me. The 1911 45ACP Colt was close enough to really be tie unless competition shooting.

The Witness is built very strong, maybe stronger then the S&W 1006, but they come with very light springs. I was to be honest leary of the factory spring for any US commercial ammo, even some of the target ammo. The reason being it was throwing brass 20 feet or more, which is a very good clue of too light a recoil spring.

bac1023
05-12-2010, 21:42
I have a Limited model in 38Super.

I like it quite a bit. :)

_The_Shadow
05-12-2010, 22:40
One of the members at 10mmTalk had the frame break within 30 rounds of factory ammo. He had the damnest time dealing with EAA(one individual inparticular) for replacement pistol. He finally did get the replacement the other day, but they offered him some extra stuff for is troubles but they didn't provide them yet. You can read the story here...http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Witness-lasted-30-Round-t78399.html

Some have had great luck with theirs, I have been skeptical and never purchased one but looked very hard at them.

Gary1911A1
05-13-2010, 09:48
I think you want one of the older ones with the square slide instead of the newer rounded slides that don't have as much metal and seem prone to cracking. Some people have good luck with their customer service, but I didn't. Good luck.

Retired Squid
05-13-2010, 10:00
I think you want one of the older ones with the square slide instead of the newer rounded slides that don't have as much metal and seem prone to cracking. Some people have good luck with their customer service, but I didn't. Good luck.The earlier models were smaller and had the rounded slides that seemed to be more problematic, I think it was only the big calibers 40, 10, and 45ACP that had the problems.

I have a friend that bought a pair of 38 Supers about 10 years ago with consecutive serial numbers that are the old style smaller gun with more rounded slide. Says he's never had a problem with the gun's, but he hasn't shot them much. His are blued models.

The heavy square slide has come and gone on the Witness model, but I don't think they have yet replaced the squared slides on the models. I remember when they came out with the big squared heavy slides and bought a new one, really liked the gun for fit and finish, but ugly as hell with clunky looking square slide, but felt great in the hand. The price was the buying point at $450 out the door. The last Match model was the inbetween model with straight unrounded slide and was really nice looking in two tone.

bush pilot
05-22-2010, 08:20
I've only fired a few hundred rounds of reloads (mild) through my Witness and really like the gun so far. It compares well in terms of accuracy with my 20 and 29. From the horror stories I hear I hope like hell it never needs any warranty work. It's too bad they can't be a little more proactive toward the consumer.

agtman
05-22-2010, 10:40
So how is the quality of these guns?

Not winning any Industry Awards for high metallurgy standards or Quality Control :whistling:

Another Witness slide bit the dust here:

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/10mm-Witness-Wondefinish-t81791.html

All of 150-rds, according to the poster. :upeyes:

Remember, the Witness pistols, regardless of caliber, are Tanfoglio-built CZ knock-offs. But, for warrantry repair work and any other problem, you'll have to deal with Tanfoglio's U.S. importer, EAA, and the personalities there who run it.

EAA's reputation for taking case of customers with problem Witnesses is, at best, sucky.

Googling for the various complaints about, and bad experiences with, EAA might be worth your while BEFORE investing in a particular Witness.

:cool:

B.Reid
05-22-2010, 17:01
Not winning any Industry Awards for high metallurgy standards or Quality Control :whistling:

Another Witness slide bit the dust here:

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/10mm-Witness-Wondefinish-t81791.html

All of 150-rds, according to the poster. :upeyes:

Remember, the Witness pistols, regardless of caliber, are Tanfoglio-built CZ knock-offs. But for warrantry repair work and any other problem, you'll have to deal with Tanfoglio's U.S. importer, EAA, and the personalities there who run it.

EAA's reputation for taking case of customers with problem Witnesses is, at best, sucky.

Googling for the various complaints about, and bad experiences with, EAA might be worth your while BEFORE investing in a particular Witness.

:cool:

I guess you get what you pay for.

Ebb27
05-22-2010, 17:59
I had one of the older square slide 10mm's.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n200/srebough/witness10mmjp8x6_edited.jpg

I never heard of any problems with these ones.


In the last few years they've been offering them with a new "streamlined" type slide that's rounded off.

As the pics from the AR15 thread show they took off quite a bit of metal.

http://www.jacobsbklaw.com/powerwagon/10mm/Front_Crack_L.jpg

http://www.jacobsbklaw.com/powerwagon/10mm/Rear_Crack_L.jpg

It appears that this change has severly weakened the slides and caused cracking issues.


I had seriously been considering getting another one in the Wonder-Finish because I liked the look of the new contoured slide, until I heard of the cracking issues with them. Now I kinda wish I had kept the old square one.

Oh well I think I'm all done with EEA and the Witness pistols.

Retired Squid
05-22-2010, 19:30
The top one is the latest model with improved slide like the one I had about two years ago, and the lower one looks like the 8 or 10 year old gun a buddy has two of with sequential serial numbers in 38 Super also blued.

Friend told me and I will have to find out for sure, but that these slides like this cracked one was a in between version that was tried and discontinued due to slide failure about 5 to 6 years ago and where not used across all calibers. He said the only guns he saw these on were 10mm & 38 Super and he only ever saw one in 38 Super and it was a blued gun, all the rest were Wonder finish and 10 mm guns. I have seen a lot of these guns over the last 5 years and never seen one of the milled down models that were cracking slides.

Ebb27
05-22-2010, 19:40
The top one is the latest model with improved slide like the one I had about two years ago, and the lower one looks like the 8 or 10 year old gun a buddy has two of with sequential serial numbers in 38 Super also blued.



No, the top one is a gun I bought used 6 years ago.

The bottom is from a thread that was posted on another forum a few days ago.


http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/10mm-Witness-Wondefinish-t81791.html




Not sure what it was you owned but the older full-size Witness's had square slides and at some point in the last couple of years they've switched to a thinner "contoured" slide which has been having cracking issues.

Perhaps they were using contoured slides 8 or 10 years ago and went to square slides, but whatever the case they're back to using contoured slides on their latest models and are having problems at least with the 10mm's anyway.

Retired Squid
05-22-2010, 21:46
No, the top one is a gun I bought used 6 years ago.

The bottom is from a thread that was posted on another forum a few days ago.


http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/10mm-Witness-Wondefinish-t81791.html




Not sure what it was you owned but the older full-size Witness's had square slides and at some point in the last couple of years they've switched to a thinner "contoured" slide which has been having cracking issues.

Perhaps they were using contoured slides 8 or 10 years ago and went to square slides, but whatever the case they're back to using contoured slides on their latest models and are having problems at least with the 10mm's anyway.

See my correction edit above, I just went to EAA and they show the big square slide for Witness and Hunter both as they were only two I checked.

http://www.eaacorp.com/images/Witness/WitnessFullSizeCropped.png

I think my friend is correct and they just tried a new design or something and it failed a few years ago. I remember on the old CZ forum (4 -5 yrs ago) before it died or I lost link or whatever that in the clone section they was a lot of talk about a new variation EAA that failed and they were to be avoided and EAA was bawking on warranty on the guns.

Ebb27
05-22-2010, 22:21
Not sure what pics they're using on their website but all the new ones I've been seeing either in person or on the web have the contoured slides and these are the ones that are having all the reports of cracked slides.

I do recall some threads on the CZ forums about Witness .45s with cracked frames a few years back, but the issue with the 10mm's and cracked slides is a fairly recent one I've been seeing over the past year or so.

Retired Squid
05-22-2010, 22:25
Just now thought I would look at their polymer guns and low and behold they show the cut down slide like show on the cracked slide from AR forum. My bet is EAA has been trying to get rid of some old slides from warranty repairs. I would not put anything past that bunch.

http://www.eaacorp.com/images/Witness-Polymer/WitSTD2008.png

Ebb27
05-22-2010, 22:37
Yeah Tanfoglio has a bad habit of constantly changing their slide design, so who knows what EAA might be sellling on any given pistol at this particular moment in time.


Whatever the case I'd advise anyone who's considering a 10mm Witness to make damn sure it doesn't have one of the contoured slides before you buy it.

Retired Squid
05-22-2010, 22:41
Not sure what pics they're using on their website but all the new ones I've been seeing either in person or on the web have the contoured slides and these are the ones that are having all the reports of cracked slides.

I do recall some threads on the CZ forums about Witness .45s with cracked frames a few years back, but the issue with the 10mm's and cracked slides is a fairly recent one I've been seeing over the past year or so. The 10mm is the one I remember being talked about. I looked at last week that were ordered for a guy were 45ACP in Wonder Finish, with one a full sized and one compact model. Another store has a new Match in 38 Super he's had since last month that I have held a couple times and was thinking hard about buying, but will probably not because I don't want to buy another caliber dies setup for my Dillon. But it is a beauty, with about a 2-3 pound trigger and no creep or over travel. If it had been 10mm I would have bought it if it was same price.

Another factor was warranty and they screwed me twice on my other two Witness guns, not going to swing again unless the price is so good I can't refuse.

Ebb27
05-22-2010, 22:49
They are nice looking pistols.

Even the plain Jane old square one I owned had a rugged sort of charm to it, and I as I mentioned I was quite attracted to the look of the contoured slides and really wanted one, until I heard of the cracking issues.

I still wouldn't mind getting another 10mm or a .45 with the Wonder-Finish if I came across a great deal on one, but only if it has the square slide. ;)

Gary1911A1
05-23-2010, 05:48
I realize the new Bren Tens will be more money, more than twice the EAA, but I suggest saving your money that you would of spent for the EAA Witness and wait on the Bren Ten which is suppose to be introduced next month. Hopefully the new Brens will be more than twice the pistol.

Gary1911A1
05-23-2010, 05:52
I had one of the older square slide 10mm's.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n200/srebough/witness10mmjp8x6_edited.jpg

I never heard of any problems with these ones.


In the last few years they've been offering them with a new "streamlined" type slide that's rounded off.

As the pics from the AR15 thread show they took off quite a bit of metal.

http://www.jacobsbklaw.com/powerwagon/10mm/Front_Crack_L.jpg

http://www.jacobsbklaw.com/powerwagon/10mm/Rear_Crack_L.jpg

It appears that this change has severly weakened the slides and caused cracking issues.


I had seriously been considering getting another one in the Wonder-Finish because I liked the look of the new contoured slide, until I heard of the cracking issues with them. Now I kinda wish I had kept the old square one.

Oh well I think I'm all done with EEA and the Witness pistols.

All my Witnesses have the older square type slides and they have not shown any signs of cracking. I do replace the recoil springs with 20lbs, use a recoil buff and don't shoot real hot loads through them. Look around for another older one.

B.Reid
05-23-2010, 21:19
I realize the new Bren Tens will be more money, more than twice the EAA, but I suggest saving your money that you would of spent for the EAA Witness and wait on the Bren Ten which is suppose to be introduced next month. Hopefully the new Brens will be more than twice the pistol.

Who's making it?

templetonhal
05-23-2010, 21:39
I can only comment on the Witness Elite Match in 10MM owned for a short time. Some had good luck with other Witness models but the Witness Elite Match had their share of problems. On mine the frame peened so badly it required a mallet to remove the slide. The peening as shown as circled.

At the time these guns were supposed to be ISO 9000 certified and out of the box they were tight and had great trigger pulls out the box. Accuracy was pretty good but chasing down expensive hard to find brass made the ownership experience worse and expensive over time.

You roll the dice on this one and hope you come up with a good one.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q215/SIDHAL/framebattering.jpg

Retired Squid
05-24-2010, 05:59
I can only comment on the Witness Elite Match in 10MM owned for a short time. Some had good luck with other Witness models but the Witness Elite Match had their share of problems. On mine the frame peened so badly it required a mallet to remove the slide. The peening as shown as circled.

At the time these guns were supposed to be ISO 9000 certified and out of the box they were tight and had great trigger pulls out the box. Accuracy was pretty good but chasing down expensive hard to find brass made the ownership experience worse and expensive over time.

You roll the dice on this one and hope you come up with a good one.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q215/SIDHAL/framebattering.jpgBeen telling people for ever and a day that before you shoot your Witness take the recoil & FP springs and toss them in trash, because the spring quality is so poor and too light at best and sometimes no where near factory spec for some reason. Of the two guns I had, one tested to 14 lbs and other 16 lbs (10mm & 45ACP) and replaced with a 18# on 45ACP and 20# on the 10mm springs to start with and went to 22# spring on the 10mm later for shooting hot hand loads. Went from throwing brass 30 feet to about 6' and after almost 500 rounds the gun still appeared new internally. So if you buy one take care of the springs and you should be ok if no magazine problems. Those also need the springs looked at and replaced most likely, also the lips on some of mine needed tweaked and that I hate doing because it's easier to make things worse.

whenmonkeysfly
05-24-2010, 08:47
Who's making it?

http://vltor.wordpress.com/

Gary1911A1
05-24-2010, 09:04
Who's making it?

Also check out this site: http://www.sportingproducts.com/ They are making it for Vltor. Seven days and counting until June when they are suppose to be available.:worried:

Gary1911A1
05-24-2010, 09:09
I can only comment on the Witness Elite Match in 10MM owned for a short time. Some had good luck with other Witness models but the Witness Elite Match had their share of problems. On mine the frame peened so badly it required a mallet to remove the slide. The peening as shown as circled.

At the time these guns were supposed to be ISO 9000 certified and out of the box they were tight and had great trigger pulls out the box. Accuracy was pretty good but chasing down expensive hard to find brass made the ownership experience worse and expensive over time.

You roll the dice on this one and hope you come up with a good one.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q215/SIDHAL/framebattering.jpg

I haven't tried this replacement rod, but Henning does have a good reputation and if the new Bren Tens don't come out I'm going to try this product to see if it protects the frame: http://www.henningshootsguns.com/pages/2009_guiderod.html