Putting the feelers out... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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07 LMB Z06
05-05-2010, 20:14
I would like to get into reloading sometime soon, and have actually thought about selling my own line of 10mm (once I perfect that art, of course).

I thought a cool name would be "WMD's." What do you guys think? Does it send the wrong message, or will the 10mm fans "get it"?

Also, are there legal steps that need to be taken for me to sell my own ammo? Can I make as many private sales as I want, or when I reach a certain point do I need some sort of federal or state license?

Google has a lot of information, but also a lot of misinformation. It would just be easier to get a condensed answer from someone here who may know.

Thanks.

HOV
05-06-2010, 08:04
I had the same idea but probably won't execute, so have at it. You'll need a class 6 federal firearms license.

Take my idea and run with it. Here it is in a nutshell.

Mission: sell top quality, hand metered, user configurable, custom 10mm ammunition

Means: start a website and sell small batches of custom ammo. Customer selects bullet type, bullet weight, and desired velocity. You make the ammo to spec using only a single stage press, meter the powder by hand (checking on two scales periodically for QC), and conform strictly to loading manual powders and pressures.

Charge super premium prices. This is a premium product and a service all rolled into one and every round is made with highest quality components.

I figure it's a full time job considering the lack of options out there for 10mm.

The risk though is a lot of liability, so be sure to get an umbrella liablity policy for at least a few million dollars.

Kegs
05-06-2010, 08:06
You will need a license for commercial reloading. I don't like the "WMD" brand - it's overplayed - but that doesn't mean it won't make for good marketing.

We could use another 10mm manufacturer, but there is some assumed risk if you invest in that level of equipment.

At the rate of which 10mm is becoming more popular, I suspect we will see some additional commercial loadings by the big guys (winchester, federal, etc.) getting into the game before too long.

MinervaDoe
05-06-2010, 16:48
I'd be leary of the WMD name. It has too many negative connotations and if you ever received bad publicity or bad press because of the name, all of your efforts to develop a brand identity would be wasted if you had to rename your product. This is a very real possibility with a self defense round. Lawyers have a field day with this kind of stuff.
Remember all the bad press for the Black Talons? Winchester had to completely rebrand the product to escape bad press.
IMHO, Take a page from the Asian copycat products and come up with a very staid, established and English sounding name like Smith and Hawkens (actually that's a composter) or Thomas Crapper (an early inventor of toilet parts).

Taterhead
05-06-2010, 18:00
The 10mm guys would "get it" as far as "WMDs" go. But so would the slip-and-fall lawyers. I like MinervaDoe's idea about a name that imparts seriousness, and doesn't sound like a hog-wild killer. For the same reason, I am not a fan of the name "Double Tap." "McNett" would be better in my opinion. There's my 10 cents.

You'll need a federal license to manufacture and sell ammo in any quantity, I am pretty certain.

gatorboy
05-06-2010, 19:44
Google - Freakshow MFG. :rofl: Ah ha ha ha ha ha!!! :rofl:

Your idea: bad one, you've never reloaded in your life man; get a grip. :upeyes:

DrtyHarry
05-06-2010, 22:48
Will you offer fellow Z06 owners with 10mms a discount?? lol

07 LMB Z06
05-07-2010, 00:35
I had the same idea but probably won't execute, so have at it. You'll need a class 6 federal firearms license.

Take my idea and run with it. Here it is in a nutshell.

Mission: sell top quality, hand metered, user configurable, custom 10mm ammunition

Means: start a website and sell small batches of custom ammo. Customer selects bullet type, bullet weight, and desired velocity. You make the ammo to spec using only a single stage press, meter the powder by hand (checking on two scales periodically for QC), and conform strictly to loading manual powders and pressures.

Charge super premium prices. This is a premium product and a service all rolled into one and every round is made with highest quality components.

I figure it's a full time job considering the lack of options out there for 10mm.

The risk though is a lot of liability, so be sure to get an umbrella liablity policy for at least a few million dollars.

This was not my exact idea, but I really like it. Perhaps a business model of your idea, customized defense rounds, at a premium price mixed with standardized but still very good defense rounds at a competitive price, and then just some really hot and maybe even some warm FMJ loads for the range. Thank you for the tips!

You will need a license for commercial reloading. I don't like the "WMD" brand - it's overplayed - but that doesn't mean it won't make for good marketing.

We could use another 10mm manufacturer, but there is some assumed risk if you invest in that level of equipment.

At the rate of which 10mm is becoming more popular, I suspect we will see some additional commercial loadings by the big guys (winchester, federal, etc.) getting into the game before too long.

That's how I feel right now. It seems like everyone who used to be the go-to companies are now lacking, and nobody else is filling the void. I figured, what the hell, maybe I can learn and step in.

Thank you for the info!

I'd be leary of the WMD name. It has too many negative connotations and if you ever received bad publicity or bad press because of the name, all of your efforts to develop a brand identity would be wasted if you had to rename your product. This is a very real possibility with a self defense round. Lawyers have a field day with this kind of stuff.
Remember all the bad press for the Black Talons? Winchester had to completely rebrand the product to escape bad press.
IMHO, Take a page from the Asian copycat products and come up with a very staid, established and English sounding name like Smith and Hawkens (actually that's a composter) or Thomas Crapper (an early inventor of toilet parts).

Great points. Thank you for the suggestion, and if I decide to go forward with this that may be the best way to go.

The 10mm guys would "get it" as far as "WMDs" go. But so would the slip-and-fall lawyers. I like MinervaDoe's idea about a name that imparts seriousness, and doesn't sound like a hog-wild killer. For the same reason, I am not a fan of the name "Double Tap." "McNett" would be better in my opinion. There's my 10 cents.

You'll need a federal license to manufacture and sell ammo in any quantity, I am pretty certain.

We think alike. This was a concern of mine, but I figured it was along the same lines as "Double Tap." If Double Tap can make a successful company with a name that might not be considered very PC then maybe I can get away with it too. Thanks for the info!

Google - Freakshow MFG. :rofl: Ah ha ha ha ha ha!!! :rofl:

Your idea: bad one, you've never reloaded in your life man; get a grip. :upeyes:

I will admit I don't know much about the situation other than I was aware of their existence and know they went out of business.

Not sure why I'm getting the sarcasm, though. Would it be so bad for someone to learn a new skill, use that skill to make money, and provide customers with another option in a relatively limited market?

Will you offer fellow Z06 owners with 10mms a discount?? lol

:supergrin: I like that idea! I can make a check box on the ordering page that will automatically apply the discount. Maybe GM will send me a set of the ZR1 brakes as a thank you.

Waterfowler
05-07-2010, 04:25
Google - Freakshow MFG. :rofl: Ah ha ha ha ha ha!!! :rofl:




You ever get your $$$ back from FreakShow gator? I know some of the guys with pending orders who waited too long or paid with a check have all but kissed their money goodbye.

MinervaDoe
05-07-2010, 08:38
We think alike. This was a concern of mine, but I figured it was along the same lines as "Double Tap." If Double Tap can make a successful company with a name that might not be considered very PC then maybe I can get away with it too.
Outside of the shooting world, the phrase Double Tap is meaningless. In the shooting world, it just means that your second shot went too high.
The media can't express outrage for something they don't understand.

hill billy
05-07-2010, 12:30
Before I started reloading all I heard was how people wanted a good 10mm load. "Oh if you made that I would buy thousands of them" Granted I don't advertise a whole bunch but I sell a metric ton of 40, 45 and 9mm and very little 10mm.

saspic
05-08-2010, 04:09
Well, first you will want to reload for yourself, to develop the skills. If you have any 10mm shooting buddies willing to be beta testers, that would be your first expansion there.
By that time, you would have an idea what questions to ask from others who have gone down this road. McNett and Freakshow spring to mind, though I couldn't predict how busy/willing to share they might be.
If you make the leap to get your license, I would still start small, maybe a table at the local gun show. Of course if you're only selling 10mm, there won't be too many takers, but if they agree to send you some feedback via email or whatever, you might refine your product, its presentation, or at least learn something about customer satisfaction.
Only then would I go with the full scale website.
Basically, I would keep my product line simple and expect surprises every step of the way.
Anyhow, good luck to you.

gatorboy
05-08-2010, 09:48
I will admit I don't know much about the situation other than I was aware of their existence and know they went out of business.

Not sure why I'm getting the sarcasm, though. Would it be so bad for someone to learn a new skill, use that skill to make money, and provide customers with another option in a relatively limited market?


Sorry about the sarcasm, I don't feel reloading is rocket science, it's actually a very simple process. It's the recipes, tricks and attention to detail that you'll never stop learning. I say good luck to you and enjoy yourself!

You ever get your $$$ back from FreakShow gator? I know some of the guys with pending orders who waited too long or paid with a check have all but kissed their money goodbye.

My C.C. Co. has taken care of me.

preventec47
05-09-2010, 09:01
First of all I think you should find out what the cost of the special FFL license is and how difficult to get.

Second, Use the name PRECISION CUSTOM AMMO. Any WMD or Double Tap stuff just sounds like a slick salesman trying to push a bunch of hype. What we all want is tranparency and honesty.

So, Call it exactly what it is. You can publish the loading tables and let people select their recipe. I believe if you were to follow their specifications/ directions exactly there would be a huge reduction in liability.

In fact for an extra charge you could even do a chrono test of two sample bullets from each box.

In fact you could even label recipes greater than loads defined in the load tables as experimental ammunition for testing purposes only. See, you are making the ammo to their specs and they will do the testing with absolutely no warranty or guarantee of
any kinds other than the product you deliver is exactly and precisely what they asked for and as specified.

I would like to pay someone to do that for me.

Call the ATF and get back to us with the info on getting and keeping the required license. I thought it was a FFL 7 but it might be the FFL 6

Good Luck, and let us know soon

I live in the Atlanta/ GA area and I would like to form
a cooperative with a group of other guys to share
in loading for ourselves. etc

HOV
05-09-2010, 20:24
I have the application for Class 6 FFL sitting on my desk right now. Haven't combed through the package in exquisite detail as I pretty much nixed the idea of becoming a professional manufacturer of ammunition, but I do believe the fee was $30 initial and $30/year after that.

hill billy
05-09-2010, 20:27
Gte an 07. It's only $150 and then you can manufacture firearms as well. :supergrin:

hill billy
05-09-2010, 20:27
Call the ATF and get back to us with the info on getting and keeping the required license. I thought it was a FFL 7 but it might be the FFL 6

Good Luck, and let us know soon

I live in the Atlanta/ GA area and I would like to form
a cooperative with a group of other guys to share
in loading for ourselves. etc

This sounds a lot like "Hey do the legwork for me and then let me know what to do" Just my .02

sdsnet
05-09-2010, 20:52
Sounds like a neat idea for a small business to support your hobby. I wouldn't quit your day job though. Some successful businesses are started as hobbies... People that love what they do usually do a better job than those that do not.

I agree with preventec47. The company name should match exactly what you are providing. And make honesty, customer service and transparency a central part of your business.

There is a big void in the service industries today when it comes to customer service and honesty. When people understand they can count on you for that they will keep coming back.

07 LMB Z06
05-10-2010, 02:11
Thank you all for the ideas and the information.

Every one of you has been very helpful, and I really appreciate it.

I suppose I will drop the WMD name. It was more of a novelty idea, and you guys have helped me to realize that.

Well, it's time to start reloading on my own and acquiring the skills, and as time progresses I will keep the board updated.

If and when the time comes that I actually get this going I may do something like the first 10 posters in a thread will get a free box, 20 rounds, of the ammo of their choosing sent to the them for testing. It would be a good way to get my name out and to get some customer feedback on the product.

As I said, when I finally get this going you will all be the first to know.

Thanks again!

Taterhead
05-12-2010, 18:28
I love the entrepreneurial spririt! As a CPA, I have helped a number of startups that have become profitable. There are a lot of ways to go broke starting (and especially growing) a business, but an extremely narrow set fundamentals that will lead to success. I love to see a good business plan come together that enriches the entrepreneur. There is always room for one more great business.

I just need to make sure that I'm on the list of the "first 10 posters in a thread!"

Good luck.