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dirtyjoe
05-06-2010, 00:09
I am working with cci lpp, winchester brass, bullseye powder and rainier 230 grain hollow points. I am very confused to say the least. Rainier advises to use lead bullet data. I only have 2 manuals as of now, Lee and Lyman. Lee gives starting load of 4 grains and never exceed of 4 grains. Lyman gives no data for 230 grain lead. Lee gives min oal of 1.190. Can some of you pros help me with a starting grain for bullseye? I do not want to have a kb. I also need a min oal. I am loading for a Colt Series 80 45 acp. I have a Lee Classic Turret and Lee Carbide Dies. Also how much flare is necessary for bullet seating? With this information I can set my dies and make a couple of dummy rounds. Thanks for all your help!!! Dirtyjoe

garander
05-06-2010, 05:57
dont worry dirty joe. you wont kb your 45. the 45 is a low pressure round.
you could probably go up to 4.8 grains bullseye and still be fine.

be careful flaring. take a case and keep screwing the flare stem down until you can detect a small amount of flare. take a bullet and see if the base will just go in the case and stick there. now see if you can back the stem out and still be able to get the base of the bullet in the case. minimum is better here.
1.250 oal just to get you started. someone else should be able to chime in here with the exact length for that rainier bullet

dirtyjoe
05-06-2010, 06:48
Thanks garander. I hope to be able to get everything lined up and be trying out my first batch of reloads Saturday. I still have a lot to do but am not in a hurry. I want everything to be right and safe. Thanks again

Colorado4Wheel
05-06-2010, 07:07
Single point load data is MAX data, reduce it by 10%
OAL/COAL/etc is MIN data, go longer then that.
Lee data is not good. Trust the Picture for case dimensions. Everything else should be confirmed.
Google the info you want from the manufactures website. Read the warnings and understand them.

Gunnut 45/454
05-06-2010, 10:26
dirtyjoe
Speer #13 manual doesn't list any Bullseye load data! For cast in 45 ACP I like Unique and W231! Red Dot works well to! Bullseye works better with Jacketed bullets! You can use the Jacketed data for cast just start at the Min load ! I would hope you have a Chrony to check the loads out right?:supergrin:

fredj338
05-06-2010, 11:27
dont worry dirty joe. you wont kb your 45. the 45 is a low pressure round.
you could probably go up to 4.8 grains bullseye and still be fine.be careful flaring. take a case and keep screwing the flare stem down until you can detect a small amount of flare. take a bullet and see if the base will just go in the case and stick there. now see if you can back the stem out and still be able to get the base of the bullet in the case. minimum is better here.
1.250 oal just to get you started. someone else should be able to chime in here with the exact length for that rainier bullet
How long have yo ubeen reloading? That is a very foolish attitude. Is it more diff to KB a 45acp, yes, should you not worry, no.:upeyes:
The Lee manual is marginally useful. it doesn't tell you what kind of bullet, just wt. Bullet shape matter as it is directly relavent to OAL. The Lyman does have data for 230gr lead loads, it's their 225grLRN, 5gr diff is within spec. IMO< BE is NOT a good beginners powder, too fast, too small a charge. You should be fine w/ middle avg data from three manuals (discounting the Lee).
Match the bullet shape to the bullet shape in the data for OAL (why the Lee fails). Yes OAL matters, more than precise bullet wt. Load no more than 10rds at the middle charge & then load 10 more 0.1gr up & 0.1gr below. Fire in order form lowest charge tto highest. Note accuracy, reliability, pressure signs (low or high).

garander
05-06-2010, 12:32
How long have yo ubeen reloading? That is a very foolish attitude. Is it more diff to KB a 45acp, yes, should you not worry, no.:upeyes:
The Lee manual is marginally useful. it doesn't tell you what kind of bullet, just wt. Bullet shape matter as it is directly relavent to OAL. The Lyman does have data for 230gr lead loads, it's their 225grLRN, 5gr diff is within spec. IMO< BE is NOT a good beginners powder, too fast, too small a charge. You should be fine w/ middle avg data from three manuals (discounting the Lee).
Match the bullet shape to the bullet shape in the data for OAL (why the Lee fails). Yes OAL matters, more than precise bullet wt. Load no more than 10rds at the middle charge & then load 10 more 0.1gr up & 0.1gr below. Fire in order form lowest charge tto highest. Note accuracy, reliability, pressure signs (low or high).

sorry fredj i could have been more specific for dirty joe. on some of the other websites the fella's are using 4.5 to 4.8 grains of bullseye with the rainier plated 230 jhp bullet. it can be loaded hotter and faster than a pure lead bullet. i didn't recomend bullseye for joe. it is what he already had.
of course i know oal length is determined by bullet style and 1.250 is long and i meant for him to reseat them deeper when someone can post the corect published data. should have told him to wait. oal matters more than precise bullet weight? i dont agree. some of the manuals are showing 60 thousandths difference or more for the same brand and shape of bullet.
on some of the 9mm threads they are talking about this same thing right now

fredj338
05-06-2010, 12:45
sorry fredj i could have been more specific for dirty joe. on some of the other websites the fella's are using 4.5 to 4.8 grains of bullseye with the rainier plated 230 jhp bullet. it can be loaded hotter and faster than a pure lead bullet. i didn't recomend bullseye for joe. it is what he already had.
of course i know oal length is determined by bullet style and 1.250 is long and i meant for him to reseat them deeper when someone can post the corect published data. should have told him to wait. oal matters more than precise bullet weight? i dont agree. some of the manuals are showing 60 thousandths difference or more for the same brand and shape of bullet. example?
on some of the 9mm threads they are talking about this same thing right now
A 5gr diff in bullet wt. matters very little either way. A 0.060" shorter OAL can raise pressures quite a bit though. I show a 50-60fps increase in vel seating 230grRNL 0.060" deeper. All things being equal, increases in vel = increases in pressure. The Ranier 230grHP (little to no data) is close in shape to the XTP. So one should load them to sim. OAL when working up loads. It will be closer to 1.220" than 1.250".:wavey:

garander
05-06-2010, 13:21
right on fred! yes little to no info for the rainier bullets. guys love em tho

fredj338
05-06-2010, 17:11
right on fred! yes little to no info for the rainier bullets. guys love em tho
IT's actually an issue in gen for newb relaoders. Unless they use exact components, everything has to be extrapolated. It's learning that, that is diff for a newb.

YellowJacket
05-06-2010, 17:26
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I show a 50-60fps increase in vel seating 230grRNL 0.060" deeper. All things being equal, increases in vel = increases in pressure.

Not currently reloading, but hoping to do so one day. It sounds like you really need a chrono as part of your set up to note differences in velocity (i.e. pressure) as you work up loads. Is this correct?

dirtyjoe
05-06-2010, 17:57
Thanks guys. I've been tilling my mom a garden all day. Dead tired. I will scour the internet tomorrow and see if I can find more data. Any suggested sites? I will definately start at the low end of the powder range. Just getting started and will just be loading for target practice. No range where I live so we just go to the sand pits and shoot cans, shotgun hulls and anything else we can find.
I tried to make one last night using a deprimed case. The first one I did not have enough flare and it scraped the plating on the bullet. I think the second one was flared too much as it would not freely drop into the barrel. It chambered fine after I ran it through the FCD.
Not sure if I should be using the FCD after reading all the posts. It appears that it just repairs a problem from a previous stage.
Oh well, I'm just 51 years old and should have plenty of time to get things right.
Fred, if BE is not so good for me to start with, can you suggest another powder?
Thanks again fellows.
Dirtyjoe

GioaJack
05-06-2010, 18:03
You' re a good son, now make sure you buy her something nice for Mother's Day tell her you love her.

(Perhaps she'd like a new gun... or better yet, a Hornady LNL. Just trying to help. :whistling:)

Jack

fredj338
05-07-2010, 00:37
Not currently reloading, but hoping to do so one day. It sounds like you really need a chrono as part of your set up to note differences in velocity (i.e. pressure) as you work up loads. Is this correct?
A chronograph is not "necessary", but IMO, loading w/o one, especially if not loading exact components in the printed data, is flying kinda blind. While a chrono doesn't tell you pressure, all things being equal, if you change a component or OAL, you'll see a vel change. There are no free lunches, so vel often equals pressures, all things being equal. I have loaded w/ a chrono since they had paper screens & were waaaay more expensive than today's. Very nice, but not required.
Fred, if BE is not so good for me to start with, can you suggest another powder?
Thanks again fellows.
W231/HP38 offers a bit more wiggle room, lots of data for it. I prefer WST, but it has limited data. If you just want target loads, BE works, but is really sooty, & you have to push it hard to get factory vel in many of the service rounds. It will work at 45acp pressures, but again, very dirty.

Gunnut 45/454
05-07-2010, 10:28
dirtyjoe
Unlike many hear I do the seat/crimp in the same Operation! I'm useing Lee dies and as you found out you do have to flare the case mouth some. The 45 ACP doesn't need alot of crimp, if you do a slight chamfer on the inside of the case it helps as well with cast bullets!