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texas 48
05-10-2010, 23:26
Is there any difference In
Remminton Bronze Jacketed JHP and Remminton Bronze Jacketed JHP Golden Sabers?

_The_Shadow
05-11-2010, 15:16
One thing is the Golden Saber has a driving band which in 0.400" and the area in front of the driving band is said to be bore riding.

I am not sure about their Bronze Jacketed stuff(could be mis print of mis stated for thier copper jacketed)...I have used Remingtons Jacketed HP's before and they were true jacketed bullets at a full 0.400" diameter up to the start of the nose profile.

texas 48
05-11-2010, 23:25
One thing is the Golden Saber has a driving band which in 0.400" and the area in front of the driving band is said to be bore riding.

I am not sure about their Bronze Jacketed stuff(could be mis print of mis stated for thier copper jacketed)...I have used Remingtons Jacketed HP's before and they were true jacketed bullets at a full 0.400" diameter up to the start of the nose profile.

Called Remmington today. Was told they do make 165gr Bronze jacketed hp bullets that are differnt design than Gloden sabers. GS have better expansion capabilities than the Bronze jacket JHP. Midsouth has the 165gr BJHP but not golden sabers. They have good supply ofg Hormady 155gr XTP so order a few hundred. They have great prices and service and better availability than most everyone elsem

Snapper2
05-12-2010, 20:45
Called Remmington today. Was told they do make 165gr Bronze jacketed hp bullets that are differnt design than Gloden sabers. GS have better expansion capabilities than the Bronze jacket JHP. Midsouth has the 165gr BJHP but not golden sabers. They have good supply ofg Hormady 155gr XTP so order a few hundred. They have great prices and service and better availability than most everyone elsem

In other words its hard to tell the difference in the bullets much less loaded ammo? Great.:whistling: Another reason to stick with XTPs. I've been thinking about buying a 20rd box of their 165gr critical defense ammo in 40cal, pulling the bullets and seeing what happens at 10mm velocity compared to the 155gr xtp which does pretty good. Midsouth is a good place to shop. Shipping prices are very good.:cool:

texas 48
05-12-2010, 21:18
In other words its hard to tell the difference in the bullets much less loaded ammo? Great.:whistling: Another reason to stick with XTPs. I've been thinking about buying a 20rd box of their 165gr critical defense ammo in 40cal, pulling the bullets and seeing what happens at 10mm velocity compared to the 155gr xtp which does pretty good. Midsouth is a good place to shop. Shipping prices are very good.:cool:

Midsouth is great supplier CS is good and they let you know on their website what is in stock . I Ordered 300 155gr XTP @ 11:05 last night and they were shipped at 11:05 AM this morning for 62.81 delivered and will have them Friday. I prefer 165gr bullets for SD and was using DT until I put them across my chronograph about 3 weeks ago and found I was getting better performance (velocity and accuracy) from my own 165gr MG bullets using Power Pistol. Tough to find SD quality bullets now days. I want to try Sierras but have no idea how they expand. Can't find Speer Gold DOT 165gr or 165gr Rem GS anywhere.

My 155 gr XTP with power pistol I was getting 1335 ft/sec 613 lbs energy and they were very accurate and very good recoil characteristics from my G20 with the standard barrel and still had some room to up the charge. With my 6 inch barrel may be able to get to close to 1380 to 1400ft/sec I can make 100 155gr XTP for 38.00/100 using New Starline brass CCI300 and Power Pistol vs 41.00/50+ shipping for DT's that don't perform as well as my own.

Will still use MG for reloads they are a great bullet for the price. Noslers in 135gr and 150gr are not bad bullets either. Good accuracy and consistency.

Forgot to mention on Midsouth website they specify if the Rems are golden Saber. If they are not GS they say Bronze Jacketed HP if they are Golden Sablers they state 165gr Bronze Jacketed HP Golden Saber so they are honest and up front about what the bullets are and their CS told me the same thing.

Snapper2
05-12-2010, 21:26
try powdervalley for 165gr GD. I havent been able to find any sierra hp anywhere in the 2yrs I've been handloading.:dunno:

texas 48
05-12-2010, 21:35
try powdervalley for 165gr GD. I havent been able to find any sierra hp anywhere in the 2yrs I've been handloading.:dunno:

Thanks Snapper2. Right now between mg XTP's Noslers and MG I have about 3000 bullets and with what I have seen and read about with the XTP's I feel that will be a very good SD round because of penetration and accuracy expansion is moderate but they tend to stay together and don't loose their jackets at impact.

If I find a source for Sierra 165gr I will drop you a PM. Would appreciate the same from you if you don't mind. I keep looking at Able ammo every so often but hate to pay the sales tax. I have found them to be better than a number of sources.

Snapper2
05-12-2010, 21:46
Thanks Snapper2. Right now between mg XTP's Noslers and MG I have about 3000 bullets and with what I have seen and read about with the XTP's I feel that will be a very good SD round because of penetration and accuracy expansion is moderate but they tend to stay together and don't loose their jackets at impact.

If I find a source for Sierra 165gr I will drop you a PM. Would appreciate the same from you if you don't mind. I keep looking at Able ammo every so often but hate to pay the sales tax. I have found them to be better than a number of sources.

ok, sure thing, thanks.

_The_Shadow
05-12-2010, 22:30
Remington is showing New Home Defense Ammo using what looks to be the Golden Saber possibly...
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/handgun/hd-ultimate-home-defense-pr.aspx

texas 48
05-13-2010, 19:55
Found some 165 gr Golden Sabers @ Midway so I bought 500. Just found out they are not bonded. My bad. Could have got 1000 montana golds for about the same price. Live and learn.

_The_Shadow
05-13-2010, 20:41
I really think we are trying to over achieve with these high tech bullets....well placed shot or shots with simple cast lead bullets will be quite effective. All of these companies have us thinking that if we don't have these super expanding hollow points in our guns we're not going to do the job...

One dollar a shot or even more in some cases is just an expensive shot.

BTW I do like the Rem GS bullets, but you can't argue with the pricing or performance of the Montana Gold. More practice with what you shoot and carry will be very effective as compared to not practicing with the expensive carry ammo.

texas 48
05-13-2010, 21:50
I really think we are trying to over achieve with these high tech bullets....well placed shot or shots with simple cast lead bullets will be quite effective. All of these companies have us thinking that if we don't have these super expanding hollow points in our guns we're not going to do the job...

One dollar a shot or even more in some cases is just an expensive shot.

BTW I do like the Rem GS bullets, but you can't argue with the pricing or performance of the Montana Gold. More practice with what you shoot and carry will be very effective as compared to not practicing with the expensive carry ammo.

Shadow you are correct. I spent .24 per bullet with the Golden Sabers. My cost per finished bullet with new components will be about 41.00 per hundred. This lower than the price of 1 box of 50 from DT and I will get equal or better performance. With 9.8 gr power pistol should get about 1290 to 1300 ft/sec as opposed to DT I measured in my last outing of 1265 ft/sec out of 4.6 Glock barrel not pushing any envelopes and no Glock smiles. I found this to be true even taking the PP to the max load of 10.0 gr (no pressure signs) but got better accuracy with the 9.8 and only about 15 ft/sec more velocity .

This is more than adequate performance for a SD round. Will get about same performance with 165gr MGs for .11 less per round and since both can come apart on impact the MG JHP is also a solid SD round if put on target. Hope I never have to really find out. The more I load my own I believe that I may never buy factory ammo again. I also find that the 155gr XTP's loaded with 10.2 gr of PP gave me 1335 ft/sec and were the most accurate bullet I have fired from any of my 10mm Glocks. The cost of this round drops about 4.00 per hundred compared to Rem GS. This round is also more than adequate for SD.

Save most of my brass and will only use for reduced power loads with MG bullets. Even down loaded to 8.5gr of PP was still getting 1150ft/sec with 165gr MG Cost drops to 20.00 per hundred. That is still 50% of the cost of CCI Blazer ammo for 10mm.

I may do some experimenting with 800X with 165gr and the 155 XTP since Power Pistol is harder to find here but will refrain to pushing this powder to a nuclear level. Looking for a good starting point for both 165gr and 155 XTP for this powder.

preventec47
06-07-2010, 06:13
For what its worth, and speaking of Alliant pistol powders
(Power Pistol ) every load manual I have data from
shows BlueDot to produce higher performing loads
than Power Pistol except for 150gr and lighter
see my compliation below

> Alliant Data---------------
150JHP 9.7gr Power Pistol 1415 fps fed 150 primers 1996 manual

155 JHP 11.5gr Blue Dot 1340 fps Fed 150 primers 1996 manual
155 XTP 12.7 Blue Dot 1350 fps Hornady 4th edition
155 XTP 12,9 BlueDot 1450fps Hornady 7th edition manual
155 Speer GDHP 12gr Blue-Dot 1291 fps 2010 Alliant website
180gr Speer GDHP bullet Blue Dot 11gr 1296fps ( also speer #14 manual)


200gr JHP Bluedot 9.6gr 1148fps 29,900 CUP 2010 Lyman Manual
200gr TMJ GDHP Bluedot 10.0gr 1159fps CCI 300-350 Speer #12 manual