Failure to Feed [Archive] - Glock Talk

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jimbullet
05-17-2010, 02:35
197273

My experience with different glocks have been excellent from a perspective of reliability, durability and it will accept all sorts of ammo that you throw in it...up until now...

I have encountered a failure to feed situation, which I am trying to assess on how it may have occurred, what factors to look at and how to pre-empt it not to ever occur again. Perhaps some of you have encountered this and have a solution that will prevent this from ever occuring again.

The scenario is the pistol started with 17 rounds after firing 5 to 8 rounds, the jam occured. I tried to replicate it and see what would have caused it and the only way I could replicate it as shown on the picture, I would have to rack the slide twice, with the first instance not going into battery (closing completely) before racking it again which makes the extractor disengage on the first live round and the slide picking up the 2nd live ammo causing it to jam. This appears highly improbable in a live fire situation but it has happened.

Any ideas?

edtf
05-17-2010, 03:35
197273

My experience with different glocks have been excellent from a perspective of reliability, durability and it will accept all sorts of ammo that you throw in it...up until now...

I have encountered a failure to feed situation, which I am trying to assess on how it may have occurred, what factors to look at and how to pre-empt it not to ever occur again. Perhaps some of you have encountered this and have a solution that will prevent this from ever occuring again.

The scenario is the pistol started with 17 rounds after firing 5 to 8 rounds, the jam occured. I tried to replicate it and see what would have caused it and the only way I could replicate it as shown on the picture, I would have to rack the slide twice, with the first instance not going into battery (closing completely) before racking it again which makes the extractor disengage on the first live round and the slide picking up the 2nd live ammo causing it to jam. This appears highly improbable in a live fire situation but it has happened.

Any ideas?

are those reloads? What caliber? did the rim of the first shell (ejecting shell) catch on the lip where the bullet and shell meets on the 2nd shell? Sorry I can't see it that well
edit....
I re-read and guess that that is a glock 17?

batangueno
05-17-2010, 08:43
Limp wrist

jimbullet
05-17-2010, 12:55
Its a g17, using factory russian 9mm steel case FMJ ammo. Empty shell ejected fine. Im not too sure whether the ejecting shell catch on anything as the cycling appeared normal.

jimbullet
05-17-2010, 12:58
Limp wrist

Does limp wrist cause the slide to somewhat go back the second time to take up another ammo?

Cody Jarrett
05-17-2010, 13:12
Its a g17, using factory russian 9mm steel case FMJ ammo. Empty shell ejected fine. Im not too sure whether the ejecting shell catch on anything as the cycling appeared normal.
Does it only occur with this ammo?

Normally FTF causes are:


Low powered ammo
Dirty mag, mag that doesn't seat tightly or damaged or weak mag spring - does it occur with all mags or just one?
Dirty chamber - try polishing the feed ramp with flitz and a cloth
tight extractor or an extractor with damage/excessive wear- replace the extractor
weak recoil spring... replace it every 6,000 rounds anyway
limp wrist


Depending on the age and use of the gun and if the problem occurs with all your mags, I recommend you replace the recoil spring/guide rod and install a new extractor. These are very inexpensive parts.

edtf
05-17-2010, 18:24
I'm not sure if it was the same as mine but I did change my recoil spring and mag springs - problem went away

ans3288
05-17-2010, 21:01
my own experience also is limp wristing my glock19, mag FTF sya :)

atmarcella
05-17-2010, 22:51
me thinks ammo is the culprit...

jimbullet
05-18-2010, 00:16
Does it only occur with this ammo?

Normally FTF causes are:


Low powered ammo
Dirty mag, mag that doesn't seat tightly or damaged or weak mag spring - does it occur with all mags or just one?
Dirty chamber - try polishing the feed ramp with flitz and a cloth
tight extractor or an extractor with damage/excessive wear- replace the extractor
weak recoil spring... replace it every 6,000 rounds anyway
limp wrist


Depending on the age and use of the gun and if the problem occurs with all your mags, I recommend you replace the recoil spring/guide rod and install a new extractor. These are very inexpensive parts.

The pistol however has had only less than 1k rounds through it...

Did I mention that the empty shell is ejected successfully while two live ammo appears to be trying to go into the chamber at the same time...Just thought to clear that up as the picture might not have shown both being live ammo from the magazine...so not sure if we can eliminate limp wristing here since limp wrist as I know it causes the slide not to fully cycle and so does not take up the live round from the mag?

darwin25
05-18-2010, 02:18
The pistol however has had only less than 1k rounds through it...

Did I mention that the empty shell is ejected successfully while two live ammo appears to be trying to go into the chamber at the same time...Just thought to clear that up as the picture might not have shown both being live ammo from the magazine...so not sure if we can eliminate limp wristing here since limp wrist as I know it causes the slide not to fully cycle and so does not take up the live round from the mag?

Limp wrist can cycle the slide far enough to take up a live round from the mag, but not enough so that the mag spring can fully push the round up so the returning slide prematurely picks up the top round resulting in the slide does not fully close and the live round is not fully chambered.

Cody Jarrett
05-18-2010, 16:00
The pistol however has had only less than 1k rounds through it...

Did I mention that the empty shell is ejected successfully while two live ammo appears to be trying to go into the chamber at the same time...Just thought to clear that up as the picture might not have shown both being live ammo from the magazine...so not sure if we can eliminate limp wristing here since limp wrist as I know it causes the slide not to fully cycle and so does not take up the live round from the mag?
With only 1,000 rounds through the gun it's probably not related to recoil or mag spring strength. Limp wristing is a possibility. It doesn't indicate someone is a "bad" shooter. Quite the opposiste. It usually occurs in shooters who are extremely comfortable with recoil. A little "too" comfortable. Please respond to each of the questions individually.


Does it occur when other people shoot the gun (eliminate "limp wristing")?
Does it occur with all of your magazines?
How is the extractor? Is it tight? Have you tried detail stripping the slide and deep cleaning the extractor, Extractor Depressor Plunger, spring and spring loaded bearing?
Does the problem also occur when repeatedly handcycling with snap caps?
Have you tried using someone else's mags?
Does it only occur using one specific type of ammo?
Has this been happening snce the gun was new?


At 1,000 rounds she's well "broken in" and should function flawlessly. Think about the questions above and reply. There's definitely an answer to this... it just requires isolating the nature of the double feed.

vega
05-18-2010, 20:51
Check your extractor, might have a ding on it.

atmarcella
05-18-2010, 23:55
when the slide was going back to chamber the round, the bullet rim/case head should also be able to insert inside the extractor... me thinks this did not happen.

so it might be the extractor or the bullets.

try bullets of another manufacturer and see if it still happens, if it does then you've norrowed the culprit down to the extractor.

jimbullet
05-19-2010, 03:04
With only 1,000 rounds through the gun it's probably not related to recoil or mag spring strength. Limp wristing is a possibility. It doesn't indicate someone is a "bad" shooter. Quite the opposiste. It usually occurs in shooters who are extremely comfortable with recoil. A little "too" comfortable. Please respond to each of the questions individually.


Does it occur when other people shoot the gun (eliminate "limp wristing")?
Others have not had the opportunity to shoot my glock extensively. One of my buddies did, for only 20 rounds and there were no issues.

Does it occur with all of your magazines?
Will have to check as I have not taken notice. Next Im on the range, will mark the magazine where I experience it.

How is the extractor? Is it tight? Have you tried detail stripping the slide and deep cleaning the extractor, Extractor Depressor Plunger, spring and spring loaded bearing?

I've done this and it appears to be very tight.

Does the problem also occur when repeatedly handcycling with snap caps?
No it hasnt however the only way I could force it in a handcycling situation to fail to feed is when I do the following:

Insert loaded mag
Pull back slide full rear
Then guide it until before reaching home (i.e. full battery)
Just before reaching home, pull it back rearwards and let it go forward after.

This causes the extractor to disengage due to the ejector tapping the rear of the shell while the slide taking up a new round. So the first live round hangs half way to the chamber while the 2nd live ammo tries to go up, which then results to a jam.


Have you tried using someone else's mags?
Havent had the opportunity...will check it out.

I did a rapid fire to empty 17 rounds as quickly as possible in each mag that I have just for it to cycle as quickly as possible and it was flawless.

Does it only occur using one specific type of ammo?
Hmmm, it seems so. I have been using steelcase russian 9mm ammo. These are factory and are not weak loads.

Has this been happening snce the gun was new?
It has occurred twice in different occassions. (Twice too many)


At 1,000 rounds she's well "broken in" and should function flawlessly. Think about the questions above and reply. There's definitely an answer to this... it just requires isolating the nature of the double feed.

Having assessed all of the above, I couldnt eliminate limp wristing, or ammo or magazine problem.

jimbullet
05-19-2010, 03:15
when the slide was going back to chamber the round, the bullet rim/case head should also be able to insert inside the extractor... me thinks this did not happen.

so it might be the extractor or the bullets.

try bullets of another manufacturer and see if it still happens, if it does then you've norrowed the culprit down to the extractor.

The 2nd ammo that is being taken up does not have the opportunity to slip under and into the extractor as the 2nd round moved forward on the mag and could not go up due to the 1st round sort of hanging half way in the chamber.

Allegra
05-19-2010, 09:15
it could also fall under the ****** happens category
when the gun/ammo/mags has been triple checked yet myseriously jams on match day

HEAVY
05-19-2010, 12:53
Check your extractor, might have a ding on it.

+ 1 on the extractor.

baka bungi, or not tensioned properly.

isuzu
05-19-2010, 19:36
Try extra power mag springs by Wolff and try a different brand of ammo.

atmarcella
05-20-2010, 00:43
the 1st round sort of hanging half way in the chamber

maybe the reason why it did this is bcos its rim did not/could not insert itself inside the extractor.

neglect the 2nd round, focus on why the first round jammed. the round that is left hanging halfway inside the chamber.

vega
05-20-2010, 12:27
With all the descriptions above, your extractor is not extracting the spent casing right?
Have you check the extractor yet?

jimbullet
05-20-2010, 12:57
With all the descriptions above, your extractor is not extracting the spent casing right?


Actually, the spent case is ejected freely and what you see in the picture above are two live rounds from the magazine.

jerrytrini
05-20-2010, 13:59
I had similar problems with my Dept issued G22. During quals day, my gun failed to feed six times and a misfire once. However, two weeks ago, using brand new 180's by Speer, my gun was flawless. Me thinks, the underpowered ammo were the culprit.

vega
05-20-2010, 17:50
Let's start all over again without the picture and live rounds.

1) Spent case is extracted and ejected.

2) What kind of failure to feed? Does it shows the ammo somewhat pushed forward in a dive or up position?

3) You seem to be using Wolf ammo which has some lacquer type finish. Most firearms does not like it.

Cody Jarrett
05-20-2010, 20:36
Having assessed all of the above, I couldnt eliminate limp wristing, or ammo or magazine problem.
I'm thinking a dinged or tight extractor. Limp wristing coukld be eliminated as a cause by having a friend shoot it. In any event feed your baby a variety of different ammo. I'm leaning away from magazine problems because the gun isn't that old. Try a friend's mags or even ask to borrow one at a range.

If you think you might be limp wristing just review and follows the six fundamentals of pistol shooting as found in the NRA guide below - $9.00. Ingraine those fundamentals into your brain as a natural fluid shooting technique.

http://materials.nrahq.org/go/product.aspx?productid=ES30600

jimbullet
06-05-2010, 01:01
I've found the culprit. The jam appears to be happening with one particular magazine for some reason, one in every two or three full magazine.

Not sure why as I've visually inspected it and compared with the rest of the mags and they all appear to be the same.

atmarcella
06-05-2010, 01:24
weak spring maybe...

vhin524
06-05-2010, 05:51
i had an almost similar problem (mag related) it seemed that the bullets were nosediving in the mag... disassembled the mag and saw that a small plastic part was protruding on inside of the mag body where the plastic molded into the metal lining. there are holes inside the metal lining where the plastic kinda protruded outward...... wouldnt hurt if you check it out..... hope this helps....