Remmy 597 VTR vs. ruger 10/22 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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buddah
06-05-2010, 14:56
Thinking of getting a .22 LR rifle. the problem is I live in communist republic of NYS.

Ruger Charger- no go, it is over 50 ounces and they won't allow it to be shipped to NYS FFL. GSG-05- no go b/c I don't feel like paying $500.00 for a gun that I can only use 10-rd. propriatery mags. no hi-cap pre-ban GSG5 mags available.

Ruger 10/22- right now I'm leaning towards this model and doing a archangel conversion on it then pinning the stock to be in compliance (plenty of pre-ban/undated mags. available). Also considering a remmy 597 VTR, the total price of the gun is cheaper than buying the 10/22 and archangel kit together. I like the 10/22 b/c so many parts/ accessories are available but I like the fact that on 597 VTR, remmy already did the conversion for you and plenty of undated hi-cap mags available.

What are your opinions/advice? Is remmy more/less reliable than 10/22? Pls. no wise ass remarks like "Move out of NYS". Thanks in advance.

Rooster Rugburn
06-06-2010, 10:27
It depends on what you want in a rifle. I don't have a 597.

If you want a rifle that you struggle to get working, have to keep going to internet forums asking about problems, and spending money on 3rd party parts to make it better, the 10/22 is the way to go.

If you want a rifle that comes out of the box working properly, the 10/22 is a crap shoot.

Did you ever wonder why there are so many aftermarket parts? I don't mean just for the cosmetic things like thumb hole stocks, rails, etc. But functional items like trigger components, trigger modules, firing pins, barrels, bolts, etc. It's because those 3rd parties can make them better than Ruger.

Look at the Marlin 60. Wonderfully dependable, wonderfully accurate, right out of the box. There are millions of them out there, (twice as many Marlin 60 than 10/22) but very few 3rd party parts. The reason, the Marlin works they way Marlin made it. Since the Marlin works, there is no need for a 3rd party parts market. But I would like a drop in trigger.


It's a magnificent feat of marketing that a company like Ruger can put out something like the 10/22 that is so sloppily made that owners go to 3rd party parts to make it work, or work better. Then that needed 3rd party market becomes a selling point for one of the worst rifles on the market.


The 3rd party market is not a luxury, it's a necessity.


The 10/22 is a tinkerers dream. There are plenty 3rd party parts and plenty challenges to get it working the way you want it.

buddah
06-06-2010, 10:38
rooster rugburn-thanks for your advice I will take it into consideration. The Marlin isn't quite what I am looking for. I am looking for something "Tacticool" looking. Thus, I am looking at remmy 597 VTR and 10/22. I was going to add archangel kit to 10/22. The marlin cannot be made to look tacticool and no hi-cap mags exist for the marlin. Was going to pin collapsible stock and not install archangel bayo lug/flash hider to make it NY legal. GSG, SIG, ruger, Colt, S&W all make what I am seeking but I ain't looking to drop more than $400.00 on a .22LR rifle.

Rooster Rugburn
06-06-2010, 10:43
By the time you bought a 10/22, got it running, then added the Archangel Kit, you could have bought something truly tacticool like the SWMP 22, for about the same money. No upgrades required.

ScrappyDoo
06-06-2010, 13:26
I wasn't into/am not into the 10/22 ... I didn't want to get the one everyone else has... so my first .22 was the Remington 597 .22LR combo from Dick's ... a synthetic OD stock with a 3-9x32mm scope ... and I love it... it just DOES NOT like cheap rounds like Remington Golden Bullet packs (go figure)....

I also have a Savage Mark II GXP combo pack , bolt action, wood stock, with scope, and it's basically my favorite piece...

Ruger 10/22 what can you say? I's the most popular thing there is. And that's why I didn't want it. And I love what I have. If that makes any sense.

Twisted Steel
06-06-2010, 14:38
Ruger 10/22 what can you say? I's the most popular thing there is.


How can you say that? As Rugburn pointed out, there are twice as many Marlins out there as there are 10/22's.

OMEGA5
06-27-2010, 13:12
Thinking of getting a .22 LR rifle. the problem is I live in communist republic of NYS.

Ruger Charger- no go, it is over 50 ounces and they won't allow it to be shipped to NYS FFL. GSG-05- no go b/c I don't feel like paying $500.00 for a gun that I can only use 10-rd. propriatery mags. no hi-cap pre-ban GSG5 mags available.

Ruger 10/22- right now I'm leaning towards this model and doing a archangel conversion on it then pinning the stock to be in compliance (plenty of pre-ban/undated mags. available). Also considering a remmy 597 VTR, the total price of the gun is cheaper than buying the 10/22 and archangel kit together. I like the 10/22 b/c so many parts/ accessories are available but I like the fact that on 597 VTR, remmy already did the conversio.n for you and plenty of undated hi-cap mags available.

What are your opinions/advice? Is remmy more/less reliable than 10/22? Pls. no wise ass remarks like "Move out of NYS". Thanks in advance.

I have both; 2 10/22's and 1 597. Stange as it seems, when I reach for
a .22, I go for the 597. I like the magazines better and the gun fits me
better. With a 3x0 Tasco scope on my 597, it's accuracy is far better than
either of the 10/22's I have. 10 shot groups at 25 yards you can cover with
a dime. Best I can do with either of the Rugers takes a quarter.
Ruger's are good, don't get me wrong but I reach for the 597 when I want to
shoot.
Dano

Titurel
06-27-2010, 14:34
I rented a Remington 597 VTR at the range once, mostly because they had a $1000 Trijicon Accupoint scope mounted on it. My impression based on the hour I spent shooting it was poor. It is very heavy and not well balanced. The trigger is poor; not only is the pull heavy but the trigger itself is narrow and uncomfortable. The magazines were terrible. They are difficult to insert and remove from the rifle. They are difficult to load and feel very cheaply made. I can't tell about accuracy because I was shooting offhand. Reliability was not very good but it was a range rental gun. I can say that the Trijicon was sweet!

It is flawed logic to conclude that the 10/22 has such an aftermarket following because the rifle is so bad that all the parts need replacing. Only great designs like the AR15, 1911 and 10/22 are capable of sustaining entire industries for aftermarket parts. It is a $200 rifle, built to a particular price point. People with the money to spare have the option of customizing their rifles. But there is nothing on a stock 10/22 that has to be replaced. The only upgrade that is necessary is to improve the trigger pull and that is no different than any mass-produced, modern .22lr.

I have several 10/22's, some completely stock except for trigger work. All of them will shoot 1" groups at 50 yards . I don't have an Archangel but I do have a Tapco T6 which I like a lot.

ScrappyDoo
07-11-2010, 12:20
I also thought the VTR was very heacy.


Although I am spoiled I guess cause the regular, Scoped semi-auto rifle 597 is plastic stock and very light and the S&W M&P 15-22 is redonkulously light... I am actually tacticooling it all out trying to ADD weight. lol.

DaScotsman
07-12-2010, 22:21
I had a 597 pre-VTR. A few months later, I also bought a 10/22. I was so impressed with the 597, that I sold it... the 597, that is...

The 10/22 isn't really light years better than the 597... but you can get ANYTHING for the 10/22, whereas alterations and mods for the 597 are pretty few...

Just my $0.02, YMMV

Glock 17L
07-12-2010, 23:13
I would also look to the Ruger 10/22..
I learned to shoot on a Marlin but the Ruger is just so versitile when it comes to any alteration that can be done to it..
You could also just buy a SR-22 if it's offered pinned in NY??

My personal 10/22 is just a $139.99 rifle I bought from Bass Pro Shop with a 20" barrel & has several mods done by me without buying anything & then later added a take off All Weather Polymer stock I picked up at a gunshow.. It has Williams Fire Sights factory which are fiber optic & very sweet, This gun is the super plinker, I can tear up the range out to 100 yards with ease..
I have put a Volquartzen Exact Edge extractor in it & it's 100% with the Federal 550 Wal-Mart bulk copper washed HP ammo..
Here's a pic of my 10/22 & MKII Rugers
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1296/ruger22rimfires.jpg

MrMurphy
07-13-2010, 01:38
There is a drop in Thompson submachine-gun lookalike kit for 10/22's now.

Why be wannabe tactical when you can be old school.

AA#5
07-13-2010, 02:51
Just my experience:
A friend & I bought Remington 597's when they were on sale. After the first 10-rounds functioned flawlessly, we both couldn't get through one single mag without malfunctions. I had constant feed & ejection failures, then rounds would stick down in the magazine. (several brands of ammo)

The best part was when my 597 started firing 5-6 rounds full auto with one trigger pull, then the range guy yelled at us for bringing an illegal rifle until I explained the situation.

After 2 factory repairs on both of our rifles, Remington bought them back from us - full refunds including registration fees.

We kept the $20.00 rebates which covered the ammo. :supergrin: