what is the best .40 s&w SD load for the g22 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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rome2240sw
06-06-2010, 21:55
Im looking for opinions from those with more experience with glocks and .40 sw in general. In my own opinion i feel that the 165gr speer gold dots, 165gr winchester ranger and the 180gr Federal loads are 3 of the best SD loads for the .40 sw. Looking for info and insight from others.

glock2740
06-06-2010, 22:23
155gr Gold Dot fan here. But my second favorite is the 165gr Gold Dot.

Don Glock
06-06-2010, 22:27
Hst, pdx1.

rome2240sw
06-06-2010, 23:03
Don Glock has me wanting to go and search for the PDX1's right now. As for the federal HST loads, I have only found them in 9mm and .45acp. In SC you can find the speer gold dots at any gun store. Mainly the ones that cater to LE or the ones that sale guns and gun supplies only. But i too agree with the 165gr speer GDs. good stuff. Yet to have tried the 155gr, but i feel more comfortable with the heavier loads.

Don Glock
06-06-2010, 23:21
Don Glock has me wanting to go and search for the PDX1's right now. As for the federal HST loads, I have only found them in 9mm and .45acp. In SC you can find the speer gold dots at any gun store. Mainly the ones that cater to LE or the ones that sale guns and gun supplies only. But i too agree with the 165gr speer GDs. good stuff. Yet to have tried the 155gr, but i feel more comfortable with the heavier loads.

you're lucky! i've never found HST's in .45! :crying:

Alchemy
06-06-2010, 23:30
Im looking for opinions from those with more experience with glocks and .40 sw in general. In my own opinion i feel that the 165gr speer gold dots, 165gr winchester ranger and the 180gr Federal loads are 3 of the best SD loads for the .40 sw. Looking for info and insight from others.


If it makes you feel any better, I have a blood relative that works for the
DEA. He's issued 165grn speer gold dots for his Sig 229. What ever
make of pistol is irrelevant, It's the cartridge that makes the difference,
whether It's Glock, Sig or what ever.

En9999
06-07-2010, 00:32
AR15.com has a really good ammo faq in their handgun ammo forum. They recommend they following loads for sd:



Barnes all-copper bullets (140 & 155gr) loaded by: Cor-Bon (DPX40140)
Winchester Ranger 180gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester Ranger 165gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165gr JHP (RA401P)
Winchester Bonded 180gr JHP (Q4355)
Speer Gold Dot 155gr JHP (53961)
Speer Gold Dot 180gr JHP (53962)
Federal Tactical 165gr JHP (LE40T3)
Federal Tactical 180gr JHP (LE40T1)
Federal HST 180gr JHP (P40HST1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB) (this is what I carry)

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.40%20S&W

kendric98
06-07-2010, 03:34
155gr Gold Dot fan here. But my second favorite is the 165gr Gold Dot.
This would get my vote as well.

rome2240sw
06-07-2010, 07:08
Another round I can barely find in .40 sw, the Ranger T 180gr and 165 gr. Tried the a couple 155gr'ers from a friends box andd they had noticeably more kick than the heaver loads. But as far as the speer Gold Dots go you can never go wrong with the 165gr. But if my knowledge is true, are the 155gr Gold Dots the ones that come in the 50 box?

cowboywannabe
06-07-2010, 07:39
depends on what you realistically expect to encounter.

for police work a mid to heavy weight 165-180 gr. would be best.

for just private citizen ccw a 135-140 gr. would give you plenty of punch without over penetration potential...

all depends on what your real or percieved needs are.

AK47Man
06-07-2010, 07:50
I have a G22 and a G27. I prefer Hornady Critical Defense 165gr and or Ranger SXT-T Series 165gr. Both are very wicked SD rounds. Federal HST's are a good choice too.

Apetrulis01
06-07-2010, 07:55
Well, my certain department issues the 165gr Speer. Put it this way, the last 5 officer involved shootings there has been no court cases. There was even a windshield involved that didn't bother the round any.

My vote will always be with the 165gr Speer .40

Thunderbolt56
06-07-2010, 08:05
Well, my certain department issues the 165gr Speer. Put it this way, the last 5 officer involved shootings there has been no court cases. There was even a windshield involved that didn't bother the round any.

My vote will always be with the 165gr Speer .40


Real world cases. That's testimony. :thumbsup:

DWARREN123
06-07-2010, 08:14
I like a 180gr Gold Dot over 7.5gr of Longshot in R-P brass with a Ferderal small pistol primer.

IndyGunFreak
06-07-2010, 09:20
AR15.com has a really good ammo faq in their handgun ammo forum. They recommend they following loads for sd:



Barnes all-copper bullets (140 & 155gr) loaded by: Cor-Bon (DPX40140)
Winchester Ranger 180gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester Ranger 165gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165gr JHP (RA401P)
Winchester Bonded 180gr JHP (Q4355)
Speer Gold Dot 155gr JHP (53961)
Speer Gold Dot 180gr JHP (53962)
Federal Tactical 165gr JHP (LE40T3)
Federal Tactical 180gr JHP (LE40T1)
Federal HST 180gr JHP (P40HST1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB) (this is what I carry)

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.40%20S&W

Sigh... Not this garbage again

IGF

IndyGunFreak
06-07-2010, 09:23
Im looking for opinions from those with more experience with glocks and .40 sw in general. In my own opinion i feel that the 165gr speer gold dots, 165gr winchester ranger and the 180gr Federal loads are 3 of the best SD loads for the .40 sw. Looking for info and insight from others.

None of them are the best, None of them are the worst either. None of them are any good if you can't hit your target. Go get a couple boxes of each, and shoot them. Decide which one you are most accurate w/, what is reliable in your firearm, and what you can find, and go with that.

Minor differences between ammo, aren't going to be making a big difference. Only "big" difference between them, is if you anticipate needing barrier penetration, at that point you'd want a bonded bullet.

IGF

rome2240sw
06-07-2010, 15:21
Lately, i have been trying expansion test using various rounds. With outdated racks of ribs with 4 jugs behind them those where the best loads penetrating through the bone, flesh, and meat pack... others past through but either keyholed, barely expanded or fell apart. So I came up with those as the top .40 s&w rounds. Just top of the line compared to what i was shooting.

DRT
06-07-2010, 20:17
180gr HST
180gr Ranger T
165gr Ranger T

schiffer99
06-07-2010, 21:05
Well, my certain department issues the 165gr Speer. Put it this way, the last 5 officer involved shootings there has been no court cases. There was even a windshield involved that didn't bother the round any.

My vote will always be with the 165gr Speer .40

Its nice when the parties are able to settle the matter outside of court.

AJSully421
06-07-2010, 22:36
Any load from any reputable manufacturer above 155 grains is just fine for CCW.

If you could ever see yourself in any possible scenario where there is something more substantial than clothing between your muzzle and the bad guy's heart then you only really have to choose what loading of 180 grain you want.

Sure, 155s will go through a windshield, but 180's do it better.

180 HST in the gun, 180 Gold Dot in the spare mag.

Ak.Hiker
06-07-2010, 23:16
Right now I have the 155 grain XTP as my carry load for my Glock 22. I like the velocity of the 155 grain and the XTP's penetration. A good combination for me. Lots of other good choices as well. I think you would have to work pretty hard to find a bad 155, 165, or 180 grain JHP. The 40 S&W loads have been pretty well perfected over the years.

rome2240sw
06-08-2010, 14:38
Dont get me wrong, the 180gr gold dots are a great choice in rounds especially if your traveling. But the 165gr gold dots are best as a carry load. I ust found out that i live a block away from palmetto state armory and all this time i have been driving to lawmans. They have the 50 box of 180gr Federal HST loads for 24.95... Think i will pick up those over the 135gr.

IndyGunFreak
06-08-2010, 14:52
Dont get me wrong, the 180gr gold dots are a great choice in rounds especially if your traveling. But the 165gr gold dots are best as a carry load. I ust found out that i live a block away from palmetto state armory and all this time i have been driving to lawmans. They have the 50 box of 180gr Federal HST loads for 24.95... Think i will pick up those over the 135gr.

What in the world does traveling have to do with this?

IGF

DRT
06-08-2010, 17:33
No thanks to 165gr Gold dot unless you live in a nudist colony or near the equator where heavy clothing isn't a concern.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1084469

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1157528

I'd go 180gr Gold Dot if that is your brand of choice.

Those of you looking for HST "street cred" or think it only works in "Gello" should read DOCGKRs quote from m4carbine.net (see below)

"FWIW, the HST is currently being used here--it is performing as well or perhaps slightly better in OIS incidents than the Ranger-T that was issued for the previous decade..."

.

Don Glock
06-08-2010, 17:39
:laughabove:

rome2240sw
06-08-2010, 21:54
What in the world does traveling have to do with this?

IGF

I was only stating that i could pay $3 more and go to Palmetto State Armory and get the 180gr Federal HSTs compared to 22.95 for the Federal 135gr JHP sold at walmart. 50 Rounds of 180gr HSTs who could beat that. I can say tho, i like nickle plated brass over brass. But thats what you sacrafice when you go cheap.

But I am down for the 180gr gold dots if you dont care too much about expansion or over penetration. Like stated before they are good if glass, car doors, or light cover is involved. But as far as coats or flesh the 165gr gold dots will do.

mikeyU
06-08-2010, 22:00
PDX1, or go for winchesters LEO over run, 180gr bonded.

rome2240sw
06-08-2010, 22:01
the federal loads Im referring to are the XM40HC

Don Glock
06-08-2010, 22:12
50 Rounds of 180gr HSTs who could beat that. I can say tho, i like nickle plated brass over brass. But thats what you sacrafice when you go cheap.



nickel plate brass makes no difference in quality guns. that's why the government contracts often don't include it. it's seen as an unnecessary expense.

IndyGunFreak
06-08-2010, 22:25
I was only stating that i could pay $3 more and go to Palmetto State Armory and get the 180gr Federal HSTs compared to 22.95 for the Federal 135gr JHP sold at walmart. 50 Rounds of 180gr HSTs who could beat that. I can say tho, i like nickle plated brass over brass. But thats what you sacrafice when you go cheap.

But I am down for the 180gr gold dots if you dont care too much about expansion or over penetration. Like stated before they are good if glass, car doors, or light cover is involved. But as far as coats or flesh the 165gr gold dots will do.

I like them all, I just misunderstood what you meant by "traveling", and was trying to understand how that would effect your ammo choice...

I like the 180's.. I don't think there's necessarily an over penetration issue..

IGF

rome2240sw
06-08-2010, 23:12
What i was only stating is that where i normally go to pick up SD ammo they mostly have the expensive stuff. You know, 20 rounds for $20 and so on. I was only saying i rather go and get the 180gr than the 135gr. And i was only speaking of over penetration with the 180gr gold dots. Those things travel. But i have no problems with the 180gr HSTs it was just before I did not know where to find them but now i do.

Eagle22
06-09-2010, 05:52
Federal 180gr HST or Speer Gold Dot 180g in my G22 and G27

165g would be my second choice.

rome2240sw
06-09-2010, 18:06
Stopped by Palmetto State Armory today and so much ammo to choose from. Hornady tap 155gr for 16.99 and dozens of other brands for wide selection of calibers from handgun to rifle to shotgun. Great store great customer service and got a free hat. Picked up a 50 round box of Federal 180gr JHP for 24.99 plus tax. If your in or around columbia SC go check them out.

+1 for Palmetto State Armory. Cant wait till they open their indoor shooting range.

rome2240sw
07-21-2010, 12:20
I know the thread has been dead for a while, but anyone have any good luck with hornady critical defense in 165gr? does it travel thru wood or glass well?

while doing ammo test, i had a 180gr HST get clogged going thru a half inch piece of wood and then passing straight through 4 jugs of water without expanding. found he round in the grass with wood stuffed in the cavity. Also had it punch through 5 old skateboard decks into 3 jugs of water. Still no expansion. or maybe i should have used paper and water in the jugs.

MURRAY
07-21-2010, 15:46
180gr HST
180gr Ranger T
165gr Ranger T

Wise Man :wavey:

mickdundie
07-21-2010, 17:15
155gr Gold Dot fan here. But my second favorite is the 165gr Gold Dot.

I agree!

If Gold Dot cannot be had, I would look for something else that is 'BONDED'

I believe some of the Ranger ammo is.

Mick:thumbsup:

rome2240sw
07-23-2010, 00:02
i'm looking for something that would pass through a wooden, thick cloth, or glass bearier and still expand. I like the gold dots and the only place i can find them is at Lawmans and its the gold dot duty ammo. Dont know if they sale it or the Federal Tactical HST to civillians. Looking for something that would expand with no problems, may need to try a lighter load like a 165gr or 155gr.

novaDAK
07-23-2010, 01:37
Sigh... Not this garbage again

IGF

garbage?:eyebrow:

IndyGunFreak
07-23-2010, 08:15
garbage?:eyebrow:

Yes.. Garbage.

To often, that list is perpetrated as "the best"... the problem in that test is, I want to see what ammo failed the test. The list is proclaimed as "the best" yet even the author admits it is not all inclusive.

It just annoys me when I see it frequently proclaimed that the list is "the best" when it is better quantified as " the best of what we tested" and list everything that was tested.

I like 180gr Gold Dots and PDX1's.. whether they are on that list or not, really doesn't matter at all to me, and wouldn't even begin to influence my decision on what to carry.

IGF

Ak.Hiker
07-23-2010, 22:38
I have shot 40 S&W loads in weights of 135 grain up to 200 grain and have never run across a load that could not be put to use as a SD loading. Some are geared more to deep penetration like the DT 200 grain hard cast but the hollow points that I have shot would all work just fine for SD as long as the shooter did his or her part.

PghJim
07-25-2010, 01:08
I am not generally a fan of the 180gr loads for civilian SD. From what I know I would go with the 155GD, 165RT, 155HST, or the 135 Corbon. I see no advantage of the PXD1 165 over the Ranger T, unless you are shooting through glass. That was actually told to me by the Winchester technician putting on demonstrations for local LEO. Another load that has performed well out of the G22, but not so from smaller barrels, is the 155 Federal HS. I would recomend the 165 grain Golden Sabres, except the last time I shot them, there was a lot of muzzle flash. The 180's on RT or HST are OK, and will probably serve you well. I think the FBI protocol has led to some bad ammo choices for civilians when looking at just penetration and expansion. Energy does play a role. I think too much attention has been paid to what the target does to the bullet and not enough on what the bullet does to the target.

For instance the Reminton 125gr 357 magnum round from and 4 or 5" revolver would fail the FBI test, only penetrate to 10 or 11 inches, lose 40% of its weight and have of recovered diameter of 0.60. Yet I would trust that round in a SD situation over most offered in an auto pistol today. However, praticality rules and I carry a Glcok in 40 or 357 sig.

Ak.Hiker
07-25-2010, 14:41
I am not generally a fan of the 180gr loads for civilian SD. From what I know I would go with the 155GD, 165RT, 155HST, or the 135 Corbon. I see no advantage of the PXD1 165 over the Ranger T, unless you are shooting through glass. That was actually told to me by the Winchester technician putting on demonstrations for local LEO. Another load that has performed well out of the G22, but not so from smaller barrels, is the 155 Federal HS. I would recomend the 165 grain Golden Sabres, except the last time I shot them, there was a lot of muzzle flash. The 180's on RT or HST are OK, and will probably serve you well. I think the FBI protocol has led to some bad ammo choices for civilians when looking at just penetration and expansion. Energy does play a role. I think too much attention has been paid to what the target does to the bullet and not enough on what the bullet does to the target.

For instance the Reminton 125gr 357 magnum round from and 4 or 5" revolver would fail the FBI test, only penetrate to 10 or 11 inches, lose 40% of its weight and have of recovered diameter of 0.60. Yet I would trust that round in a SD situation over most offered in an auto pistol today. However, praticality rules and I carry a Glcok in 40 or 357 sig.

I guess all of the bad guys put down with the old 125 grain JHP 357 Magnum forgot to read the FBI test data first. Perhaps the same dynamics are at work when you look at the the street reports of the 135 grain CorBon 40 S&W load as well as the 115 grain 9mm +P+.

DRT
07-25-2010, 17:10
I was up at my property this weekend and for S&G, I decided to try 180gr HST, 165gr Ranger Tseries, and 165gr gold dot out of my G22 (vs prior test was with G35) through 4 layers of denim into water. I'll post pictures when I get a chance but suffice it to say that it reaffirmed my decision to carry either the HST or Ranger T with equal peace of mind when I have a choice on what to carry. Both retained full weight and expanded more robustly/thoroughly vs gold dot. Additionally, the folded petals on the HST & Ranger are much longer than the gold dot indicating the potential for even larger expansion early on in the penetration process. Lastly, the expanded profiles on the HST & Ranger where sharper and therefore more efficient at cutting tissue.

Expansion (max/min) in inches.

HST: .77/.73
Ranger T: .75/.73
Gold dot: .61/.54

The frontal area, vs diameter, is more applicable for calculating crush volume. By calculating frontal area (average radius ^2 * 3.14) , the HST has approximately 67% more frontal area vs Gold dot. Ranger T has 65% more. Since all 3 penetrate >12", particularly with heavy clothing as an intermediate barrier, I'll take the one that crushes the most tissue in this critical area of penetration.

TORCHRIDER
07-26-2010, 12:50
I use - Winchester Ranger 165gr JHP

rome2240sw
07-27-2010, 16:33
I was up at my property this weekend and for S&G, I decided to try 180gr HST, 165gr Ranger Tseries, and 165gr gold dot out of my G22 (vs prior test was with G35) through 4 layers of denim into water. I'll post pictures when I get a chance but suffice it to say that it reaffirmed my decision to carry either the HST or Ranger T with equal peace of mind when I have a choice on what to carry. Both retained full weight and expanded more robustly/thoroughly vs gold dot. Additionally, the folded petals on the HST & Ranger are much longer than the gold dot indicating the potential for even larger expansion early on in the penetration process. Lastly, the expanded profiles on the HST & Ranger where sharper and therefore more efficient at cutting tissue.

Expansion (max/min) in inches.

HST: .77/.73
Ranger T: .75/.73
Gold dot: .61/.54

The frontal area, vs diameter, is more applicable for calculating crush volume. By calculating frontal area (average radius ^2 * 3.14) , the HST has approximately 67% more frontal area vs Gold dot. Ranger T has 65% more. Since all 3 penetrate >12", particularly with heavy clothing as an intermediate barrier, I'll take the one that crushes the most tissue in this critical area of penetration.

which 180gr HSTs did you use? the white box or the tactical bonded version?

IM suprise the 165gr Gold dot didnt expand more than .61/.54

rome2240sw
07-27-2010, 16:38
I'm a true believer when it comes to the Federal HSTs. Practice with federal ball ammo and currenty defend my home, me, my family, and car with 180gr Federal HSTs. Believe im gonna move down to the faster 165gr HSTs. Maybe the tactical bonded versions if they will sale them to me at lawmens.

one other thing, at the gun show the other day a guy told me that all the winchester PDX1 and Ranger loads are hot loads. Said that they are hard on guns that arent completely made of steel. How true is that? cant afford either round just a question. 155gr ranger T goes from $40-$47... Out of my price range, rather go with the Federal HST

DRT
07-27-2010, 18:46
which 180gr HSTs did you use? the white box or the tactical bonded version?

IM suprise the 165gr Gold dot didnt expand more than .61/.54

It was in the TACTICAL box but HST's are NOT bonded. Federal also makes a TACTICAL BONDED round but it's not an HST. Don't confuse the two.

I;m not surprised at all regarding the 165gr Gold Dot's performance. My personal experience is that gold dots don't expand very well after heavy clothing/denim. They work pretty well when shooting them into bare water, gel, wet pack, etc. but put heavy clothing in front of them and they don't open up as well as other premium designs. This is clearly seen in the pictures above.

DRT
07-27-2010, 18:47
Pictures added to my posting above.

DRT
07-27-2010, 18:59
I'm a true believer when it comes to the Federal HSTs. Practice with federal ball ammo and currenty defend my home, me, my family, and car with 180gr Federal HSTs. Believe im gonna move down to the faster 165gr HSTs. Maybe the tactical bonded versions if they will sale them to me at lawmens.

one other thing, at the gun show the other day a guy told me that all the winchester PDX1 and Ranger loads are hot loads. Said that they are hard on guns that arent completely made of steel. How true is that? cant afford either round just a question. 155gr ranger T goes from $40-$47... Out of my price range, rather go with the Federal HST


My experience is that the 180gr HST is superior to 165gr HST due to it's larger, more robust expansion performance. Stick with the 180gr version.

155gr Ranger is NOT the Tseries design. It's a conventional HP design. The good stuff is 165gr (RA40TA) or 180gr (RA40T).

rome2240sw
07-27-2010, 19:31
It was in the TACTICAL box but HST's are NOT bonded. Federal also makes a TACTICAL BONDED round but it's not an HST. Don't confuse the two.

I;m not surprised at all regarding the 165gr Gold Dot's performance. My personal experience is that gold dots don't expand very well after heavy clothing/denim. They work pretty well when shooting them into bare water, gel, wet pack, etc. but put heavy clothing in front of them and they don't open up as well as other premium designs. This is clearly seen in the pictures above.

Thanks for the clarification on the HST vs the tactical bonded. But i love the HSTs. Great round but it has a wide HP cavity which makes it more prone to clogging IMHO. But why would you take weigh over speed/power? just a question. ONLY looking answers since it appears alot of yall are more experienced than i am when it comes to these kinds of issues.

Any problem with the HSTs or the Gold Dots clogging going through heavy denim/clothing? i know the rangers are made with a small cavity to reduce clogging.

rome2240sw
07-27-2010, 19:33
if they were'nt so expensive i would love to try the hornady critical defense. It looks like a round made for everything. Havent seen any CITIZEN test using the 165gr Critical defense ammo through jugs, clothing and other barriers. I was told that they were'nt the best expanding rounds out there.

DRT
07-27-2010, 19:46
Thanks for the clarification on the HST vs the tactical bonded. But i love the HSTs. Great round but it has a wide HP cavity which makes it more prone to clogging IMHO. But why would you take weigh over speed/power? just a question. ONLY looking answers since it appears alot of yall are more experienced than i am when it comes to these kinds of issues.

Any problem with the HSTs or the Gold Dots clogging going through heavy denim/clothing? i know the rangers are made with a small cavity to reduce clogging.

I already answered the 180gr vs 165gr HST question in a previous response.

In my experience, HSTs/Ranger Ts perform better than Gold Dot after going through heavy clothing. This is illustrated in my pictures above.

My experience is that bullets with small HPs are less robust expanders, particularly after clothing.

rome2240sw
07-27-2010, 21:20
one last question, I dont work for law enforcement so am i able to buy the Federal Tactical HST marked LE? I use the white box 180 grain HST now. The ones with the standard brass shells and silver primers. I think im gonna stick to the HST. I just know expansion wont happen if the cavity is clogged with wood

Glockbuster
07-29-2010, 08:53
I don´t know the answer to your above question, but I´ve read through this thread and I see you have been provided with good advice on a variety of rounds for SD purposes. They´re all good, and no one is a best fit for every possible situation or scenario. Differences in performance will not be that great.

IMHO, you have to start making up your mind on which to choose for defense purposes and train with it for a while. If you find something you are convinced is better you can always switch, but be sure to practice and practice until you´re good with it and until you´re convinced your weapon is good with it.

All the ammo discussed in this thread is excellent IMO.

rome2240sw
07-29-2010, 10:52
I don´t know the answer to your above question, but I´ve read through this thread and I see you have been provided with good advice on a variety of rounds for SD purposes. They´re all good, and no one is a best fit for every possible situation or scenario. Differences in performance will not be that great.

IMHO, you have to start making up your mind on which to choose for defense purposes and train with it for a while. If you find something you are convinced is better you can always switch, but be sure to practice and practice until you´re good with it and until you´re convinced your weapon is good with it.

All the ammo discussed in this thread is excellent IMO.

Thanks for the positive reply. I have been running the Federal HST as my main carry load for the .40sw for about 4 1/2 months now. Use to be a true believer when it came to the gold dots but they were a lil expensive for me. But the 180gr HST is the round i choose to carry as well as it has passed tests i have done in the past. Though its not bonded its a great bullet i would trust my life on. My only problem with the HST is one that can happen with any HP ammo, it can get clogged and wont work. But then again that only happend with the HST going through plywood..

geo57
07-29-2010, 11:30
Apparently, I have no chance for survival. I'm still using Federal LE 180 gr. Hi-Shok JHP.

TORCHRIDER
07-29-2010, 11:56
Apparently, I have no chance for survival. I'm still using Federal LE 180 gr. Hi-Shok JHP.

Nope, you are a gonner. Probably bounce right off em. :rofl:

Ak.Hiker
07-29-2010, 23:47
Nope, you are a gonner. Probably bounce right off em. :rofl:

Same thing with the Hydra-Shok. They will bounce off too. What happens is over time bad guys develop a resistance to the old school designs.

geo57
07-30-2010, 10:01
AK Hiker & Torchrider, love the humor & sarcasm. This " OLD " load I still carry was reported to be about 94% effective from gathered street & duty shootings as late as 10 years ago, but now it's probably not even harmful to one's health taken center mass. The latest bonded offerings; HST, Dots etc., won't be worth a damn either in 10 years, wait and see.

Glockbuster
07-30-2010, 10:11
I must join in the laughs as I agree with you guys 100%, I like the non offending touch of humor too. I tried to be as polite as I could in my post.

rome2240sw
07-30-2010, 15:07
I understand all the sarcasim but i was only looking for helpful info on personal defense ammo. But i have already found the info i needed as well as I believe i will continue to carry the 180gr HST or downgrade to the 165gr HST. MY faith is still with federal. My only complaint was it doesnt expand well once the cavity is plugged with solid/hard material.

But once again thanks to Don Glock and all who have helped me with my ammo issues. Learned so much from alot of you guys. Ask the local PD anything and its Speer Gold dot 165gr

Eagle22
07-31-2010, 09:16
AK Hiker & Torchrider, love the humor & sarcasm. This " OLD " load I still carry was reported to be about 94% effective from gathered street & duty shootings as late as 10 years ago, but now it's probably not even harmful to one's health taken center mass. The latest bonded offerings; HST, Dots etc., won't be worth a damn either in 10 years, wait and see.


What is the difference between 94% dead and 100% dead ??
or .72 Expansion vs .65 expansion ?

Dead is Dead.

geo57
08-01-2010, 10:52
What is the difference between 94% dead and 100% dead ??
or .72 Expansion vs .65 expansion ?

Dead is Dead.


I didn't use, nor is the word " dead " the issue here. "Effective" was used, because that was the % a couple reports gave as to their one shot stop to center mass that stopped a threat success reports. Their findings, not mine. Whether you trust or believe them makes no difference and is another matter, but has nothing to do with the meaning of the statement.

I brought up no expansion numbers, you did. But to answer your question, .07

shotgunred
08-01-2010, 11:39
If one were to look at real world shooting according to Evan Marshall you should use one of the top three bullets listed. The first number is number of shootings. The second is number of one shot stops. % is the percentage of shot that are one stop shots.

Remington 165 gr Golden Saber 146 137 94%
CCI 155 gr Gold Dot 59 55 93%
Federal 155 gr Hydra Shok 88 82 93%
Federal 180 gr Hydra Shok 65 57 88%

I have always favored the 180's myself but now I am rethinking my logic. Also this type of information highly favors older rounds that have had to be used enough to generate enough information.

Source
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=11&Weight=All

M&P Shooter
08-01-2010, 15:54
No thanks to 165gr Gold dot unless you live in a nudist colony or near the equator where heavy clothing isn't a concern.



Yeah those 165gr GD's would get stuck in any K-Mart brand flannel:upeyes:

DRT
08-01-2010, 17:50
Yeah those 165gr GD's would get stuck in any K-Mart brand flannel:upeyes:

Correction, they won't get stuck, just not open up as well as some others. If that doesn't matter to you then load up with em.

novaDAK
08-02-2010, 16:48
Yes.. Garbage.

To often, that list is perpetrated as "the best"... the problem in that test is, I want to see what ammo failed the test. The list is proclaimed as "the best" yet even the author admits it is not all inclusive.

It just annoys me when I see it frequently proclaimed that the list is "the best" when it is better quantified as " the best of what we tested" and list everything that was tested.

I like 180gr Gold Dots and PDX1's.. whether they are on that list or not, really doesn't matter at all to me, and wouldn't even begin to influence my decision on what to carry.

IGF

The list isn't garbage though.

Preußen
08-03-2010, 08:41
If one were to look at real world shooting according to Evan Marshall you should use one of the top three bullets listed. The first number is number of shootings. The second is number of one shot stops. % is the percentage of shot that are one stop shots.

Remington 165 gr Golden Saber 146 137 94%
CCI 155 gr Gold Dot 59 55 93%
Federal 155 gr Hydra Shok 88 82 93%
Federal 180 gr Hydra Shok 65 57 88%

I have always favored the 180's myself but now I am rethinking my logic. Also this type of information highly favors older rounds that have had to be used enough to generate enough information.

Source
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=11&Weight=All
:upeyes:

I've said it before and i'll say it again, Evan Marshall & Evan Sanow's "stopping power" books are complete BS...

Choose a cartridge that features 100% positive feeding, excellent accuracy, and good terminal ballistics, and stop worrying about MUZZLE ENERGY, MUZZLE VELOCITY and stopping power

See my sig below for the definition of stopping power ↓

Eagle22
08-04-2010, 07:23
I didn't use, nor is the word " dead " the issue here. "Effective" was used, because that was the % a couple reports gave as to their one shot stop to center mass that stopped a threat success reports. Their findings, not mine. Whether you trust or believe them makes no difference and is another matter, but has nothing to do with the meaning of the statement.

I brought up no expansion numbers, you did. But to answer your question, .07

lol

Shot until the threat has stopped.