Effectiveness of 147gr Winchester Silvertip JHP? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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betyourlife
06-06-2010, 23:48
Anyone have any credible information on the effectiveness of the Winchester 147gr Silvetip JHP?

We all know that the 115gr did well in shootings, with a few reported underpenetration issues due to it's rapid expansion.

It would seem to me that the 147gr JHP would do rather well. According to info I found on the web (with unknown credibility), the 147gr silvertip did rather well in shootings, resulting in 80+% "one shot stops".

betyourlife
06-17-2010, 17:05
Bump...

Dave T
06-17-2010, 21:08
Winchester's Silvertip is a very old technology (bullet design) dating back to at least the 1980s. There are any number of better designed bullets on the market today. Speer's Golddot and the Winchester Ranger T comes to mind...since I have them on the ammo shelf.

Dave

IndyGunFreak
06-17-2010, 22:44
Anyone have any credible information on the effectiveness of the Winchester 147gr Silvetip JHP?

We all know that the 115gr did well in shootings, with a few reported underpenetration issues due to it's rapid expansion.

It would seem to me that the 147gr JHP would do rather well. According to info I found on the web (with unknown credibility), the 147gr silvertip did rather well in shootings, resulting in 80+% "one shot stops".

Many folks blame the 115gr Silvertip for not penetrating enough to kill Platt during the Miami FBI shootout... I believe it stopped an inch or so from his heart.

I'm curious why you're asking? There's a lot of self defense rounds out there, and the Silvertip is a very old design(I don't even think I ever see them for sale here anymore).... You were just looking to sell some WWB JHP's... and now you're looking at Silvertips? Lot better options out there... PDX1, Gold Dot... and those are if you don't want to internet order.

Are you having some sort of issue finding carry ammo, or am I just missing something?

IGF

RWBlue
06-17-2010, 23:06
Winchester's Silvertip is a very old technology (bullet design) dating back to at least the 1980s. There are any number of better designed bullets on the market today. Speer's Golddot and the Winchester Ranger T comes to mind...since I have them on the ammo shelf.

Dave

+1, but......

I liked it when I did gel tests on it.
I never liked the 115gr. It expanded to quickly, IMHO.

This being said, I am a 147gr person.


Now that I think about it, my 92FS mags (in storage), might still be loaded with 147gr Silver tips. That or 147gr XTPs.

betyourlife
06-17-2010, 23:17
Guys, I have TONS of premium JHP's, I was just asking. As old as it is, it is selling for more than today's premium JHP's for a reason.

I sold a little bit of my wwb 147gr but I still carry it from time to time as I like it. It penetrates deep and still expands. Most importantly, it is accurate, more accurate than anything else I've tried.

hotpig
06-17-2010, 23:50
Silver tips are still one of Winchester top of the line personal Protection rounds. It still has a following even though there are other options available.

RWBlue
06-18-2010, 08:04
Guys, I have TONS of premium JHP's, I was just asking. As old as it is, it is selling for more than today's premium JHP's for a reason.

I sold a little bit of my wwb 147gr but I still carry it from time to time as I like it. It penetrates deep and still expands. Most importantly, it is accurate, more accurate than anything else I've tried.

Are you comparing 115gr bullets to 147gr bullets? The 147gr bullets always sell for more.

Personal protection carry round decision is very personal. By that I mean that once someone has made a decision they tend to stick with it until something better comes along. I had Black Talons in one of my guns for years. When my supply started to run low, I had to research what I wanted to use. If I had been able to buy more BT I would have. I think people who at set on ST will continue to use them until Winchester stops making them.

betyourlife
06-18-2010, 09:06
Are you comparing 115gr bullets to 147gr bullets? The 147gr bullets always sell for more.

Personal protection carry round decision is very personal. By that I mean that once someone has made a decision they tend to stick with it until something better comes along. I had Black Talons in one of my guns for years. When my supply started to run low, I had to research what I wanted to use. If I had been able to buy more BT I would have. I think people who at set on ST will continue to use them until Winchester stops making them.

Either of their 115 or 147gr loads sell for more than todays premium JHP's.

The thread was about their effectiveness.

BOGE
06-18-2010, 11:29
The current version of the ST has been carefully redesigned. Most posters here know nothing of that as itīs not a round used by many LEO`s. In itīs current MODERN incarnation it is indeed wicked.

Hereīs a test of the current version of the 115 gr. ST using the FBI standard four denim test. Sorry but I don`t subscribe to shooting Aqua Man or Ma Bell. As usual, I would avoid all 147 gr. because if you want a .38 Spcl. then buy one.

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9325&SearchTerms=9mm,silver,tip

Glolt20-91
06-24-2010, 16:46
The current version of the ST has been carefully redesigned. Most posters here know nothing of that as itīs not a round used by many LEO`s. In itīs current MODERN incarnation it is indeed wicked.

Hereīs a test of the current version of the 115 gr. ST using the FBI standard four denim test. Sorry but I don`t subscribe to shooting Aqua Man or Ma Bell. As usual, I would avoid all 147 gr. because if you want a .38 Spcl. then buy one.

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9325&SearchTerms=9mm,silver,tip

A quote by TN-popo from the link you posted;

Well, I just received my email back from Mr. Paul Nowak (Winchester LE Division).
He states that the 9mm Silvertips (115gr and 147gr) were NOT changed/redesigned recently.
The only Silvertip handgun ammunition affected by the change is...
.45LC, .45acp, .38spec/110gr, .32acp, .380acp, and .44spec.

Hope this clears up any misinformation.
Best

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - TN-popo on September 12 2005 11:16:36 PM


When Midway put the 147gr Silvertip on sale, I ordered 500 of them for my .38Super.

9mm design 147gr Gold Dots can/do offer mediocre performance when their velocities are pushed. Based upon performance of the 10mm/175gr Silvertip ~1400fps (Win factory @1290fps) and .44mag/210gr ST at 1570fps; I expect the 147gr ST will yield very good performance ~1200s.

Bob :cowboy:

481
06-24-2010, 19:58
A quote by TN-popo from the link you posted;

Well, I just received my email back from Mr. Paul Nowak (Winchester LE Division).
He states that the 9mm Silvertips (115gr and 147gr) were NOT changed/redesigned recently.
The only Silvertip handgun ammunition affected by the change is...
.45LC, .45acp, .38spec/110gr, .32acp, .380acp, and .44spec.

Hope this clears up any misinformation.
Best

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - TN-popo on September 12 2005 11:16:36 PM

When Midway put the 147gr Silvertip on sale, I ordered 500 of them for my .38Super.

9mm design 147gr Gold Dots can/do offer mediocre performance when their velocities are pushed. Based upon performance of the 10mm/175gr Silvertip ~1400fps (Win factory @1290fps) and .44mag/210gr ST at 1570fps; I expect the 147gr ST will yield very good performance ~1200s.

Bob :cowboy:


Thank you for the much needed correction.

Can't wait to see your tests with those STs.

Glolt20-91
06-25-2010, 00:12
Thank you for the much needed correction.

Can't wait to see your tests with those STs.

Don't know what to expect with the 147gr ST tests, will set-up the .38Super dies tomorrow and wait for the wind to die down, then get the chrono numbers.

This .357mag/145gr Silvertip review at Midway is impressive; very wide wound cavity hole given the very short penetration distance;

Locust grove, OK Date posted: 9/13/2006

These are medicine for whitetails that will make a believer out of people who doubt the .357. 84 yard shot out of a Rossi Saddle Ring carbine; blew a 2.5" hole straight through the neck of a 127# doe, dropping her immediately like a rock. These projectiles are the real deal folks if you hunt with a .357, no kidding.

And more recently;

Richardson, TX Date posted: 3/10/2010

This is the bullet in handguns for deer hunting-Ruger Blackhawk at seventy yards one shot one step and down-this is also a fine defensive bullet in the .357.

Given the violent expansion I've seen in .44mag/210gr, another review agrees;

Bainbridge Island, WA Date posted: 12/21/2007

I have 5 years of experience with this bullet. It is superb in so many ways. Heavy enough for anything except special applications like large bear. Base is concave so weight is concentrated toward bullets walls. It opened violently in both tests and in actual shootings. For defense push at 1100 to 1275 fps for experts who carry. Push to 1500 for hunting. Moves almost 1900fps out of 22 inch carbine. Very accurate but seems impervious to fragmentation. Best bullet for 44 I have every seen.

I'll be testing the 210gr soon.

There weren't any reviews for the 147gr Silvertip bullet or 9mm/147gr ST ammo.

However, don't see this kind of real life, self defense review very often, Winchester .38Super/125gr Silvertip ammo, at only 1240fps;

Colorado springs, CO Date posted: 11/15/2008

3 years ago I was in a hold up and had to use my Les Baer custom 1911 to defend myself as well as others. This is the only hollow point that I could find for the gun and I feel it saved the life of the young woman behind the counter. The man happened to be her ex and she believed he was there to kill her and make it look like a robbery. If I sat back and left that gun in the car or never applied for a Colorado concealed weapons permit I believe that young girl as well as any witnesses that could have identified him would be dead. I put my life behind this round and it worked. I will never carry anything else.

Credits to Winchester for designing the .38Super/125gr ST and 10mm/175gr ST, the 125gr Silvertip is not offered in .357SIG. The 175gr ST ammo (1290fps) may be the only 10mm velocity, JHP design bullet on the market.

The 147gr Silvertip is still in stock and on sale at Midway.

Bob :cowboy:

johns961
06-25-2010, 04:02
I have some older silvertip .38 and38 super in my emergency supply.
I have and do like their 145 grain .357 in my L and N frames though.
I still like the silver tip, but have been stocking my guns with GD's and HST latley.

John!

grendelbane
06-25-2010, 08:07
Silvertips may be an old technology, but it is almost the only choice you have for .38 Super and 9x23mm Winchester.

They are not bad, lots better than when Winchester loaded revolver bullets in the the .38 Super.

RWBlue
06-25-2010, 10:16
Silvertips may be an old technology, but it is almost the only choice you have for .38 Super and 9x23mm Winchester.

They are not bad, lots better than when Winchester loaded revolver bullets in the the .38 Super.

You need to take up reloading. I am guessing that the 38 Super is going to fast for Silvertip technology.

Glock9teen
06-25-2010, 12:07
Where do you find the 147gr Silvertip? I have only found the 115gr Silvertip locally.

GIockGuy24
06-25-2010, 13:08
The Silvertips have updated a few times. Originally the handgun Silvertips had an aluminum jacket. It would flake off and clog the gas port on the gas operated H&K pistol. The current Silvertips are the exact same bullet used in the Winchester USA ammo with a standard copper jacket colored silver. Silvertips used to have flash retardant powders but recently the newer designed premium ammo now gets the flash retardant powders and current Silvertips seemed to have a flashier powder. So other than the nickel plated case current Silvertips are similar to Winchester USA ammo.

BadAndy
06-25-2010, 13:42
Looks almost like the ST has slightly deeper cuts on the tip.

Standard Winchester JHP
http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/1390208196.jpg

Silver Tip
http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/1390156329.jpg

ssilvestro
06-26-2010, 00:07
Looks almost like the ST has slightly deeper cuts on the tip.

Standard Winchester JHP
http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/1390208196.jpg

Silver Tip
http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/1390156329.jpg

It's just the way the photographs came out-- the Silvertip and WWB do in fact use the same bullet, save for the nickel plating. There is also a slight velocity difference between the factory-loaded 147 WWB and the 147 Silvertip, 990 versus 1010 fps, respectively (according to Winchester's website). Whether 20 fps makes any difference in the real world, I don't know, and how the formulations of their powders differ, I also can't speak to, but the heads themselves ARE identical.

dougader
06-26-2010, 14:31
I always like the 145 grain STHP in 357 magnum.

If the price is right, I'll look at the STHP's at Midway as well.

481
06-26-2010, 20:44
Looks almost like the ST has slightly deeper cuts on the tip.

Standard Winchester JHP
http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/1390208196.jpg

Silver Tip
http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/1390156329.jpg

Sure looks 'close' to me.

Been discussed before here-

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1173831



:)

Glolt20-91
06-26-2010, 21:04
Thanks, I've been looking for Wolberg's article.

Bob :cowboy: