Why is Ruger still not in this game? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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bac1023
06-12-2010, 17:32
There was a buzz late last year about a Ruger 1911 and I haven't heard squat since.

Anybody hear anything? :dunno:

If somebody would have told me a year ago that Remington and Magnum Research would both have a 1911 out before Ruger, I would have laughed.

I know they won't hold out forever, but I can't believe they still don't have one. Isn't Ruger the largest firearms company in the world?

Not that it matters much, but its a large American gun company, big into handguns, with no 1911. Odd. :headscratch:

Geeorge
06-12-2010, 17:37
Ruger has spent all their time and resources knocking off the Kel-Tec:whistling:

:wavey:

bac1023
06-12-2010, 17:46
Ruger has spent all their time and resources knocking off the Kel-Tec:whistling:

:wavey:

...which is sad as hell, in my opinion.

I'm not real big on Ruger's polymer guns at all.

glock2740
06-12-2010, 17:47
I haven't heard anything about a new Ruger 1911, but I will be interested to see one.

Don Glock
06-12-2010, 17:50
people assumed the "secret" SR9 subcompact announcement countdown on their website was a new 1911 coming out. it started a bunch of rumors that fizzled out once the SR9 subcom was revealed.

bac1023
06-12-2010, 18:00
people assumed the "secret" SR9 subcompact announcement countdown on their website was a new 1911 coming out. it started a bunch of rumors that fizzled out once the SR9 subcom was revealed.

Yeah, I do remember the countdown being the small SR9, but I thought the rumor was more than just a countdown on the website. In fact, I believe the rumor started well before the countdown was posted. :dunno:

Don Glock
06-12-2010, 18:07
Yeah, I do remember the countdown being the small SR9, but I thought the rumor was more than just a countdown on the website. In fact, I believe the rumor started well before the countdown was posted. :dunno:



it did, but is still just a rumor, my friend. sounds like wishful thinking ;)


if there's money in it, they will.

BOGE
06-12-2010, 18:10
Why should they? They can barely keep up production now and they are THE largest firearm manufacturer in America. Also, it takes a long time to PROPERLY train people to do repairs on a 1911. It isn´t actually a modular design.

I think it would be stupid for Ruger, or Glock for that matter, to build a 1911. The market is saturated. What I would rather see is for Colt to come back strong & blow away everyone else. Of course that´s analagous to wishing for a sober Lindsay Lohan or Paris Hilton going to church. :whistling:

GreyEclipse
06-12-2010, 18:13
Always wondered why the MK's had a 1911 grip angle but Ruger never bothered making a 1911. Still kinda bugs me.

bac1023
06-12-2010, 18:21
I think it would be stupid for Ruger, or Glock for that matter, to build a 1911. The market is saturated. What I would rather see is for Colt to come back strong & blow away everyone else. Of course that´s analagous to wishing for a sober Lindsay Lohan or Paris Hilton going to church. :whistling:

BOGE, the market is not saturated with affordable, quality American 1911s.

If Ruger built them for $600 or so, I strongly believe they would sell like crazy. :)







.

BOGE
06-12-2010, 18:24
BOGE, the market is not saturated with affordable, quality American 1911s.

If Ruger built them for $600 or so, I strongly believe they would sell like crazy. :)







.

On that we agree 100%. I just think Ruger needs to stick with revolvers as I like them a lot better than their ¨clankety¨ SA´s. :whistling:

By the way Bac, have you ever shot your Ruger .44 Spcl.?

Jason D
06-12-2010, 18:38
While it would be interesting to see a Ruger 1911, I still hold the company in contempt.
I may have made an exception for a MK pistol, but that was only because they have a huge after market following.

With past experience with Ruger pistols and one revolver, I wouldn't own anything else but their .22. A P85 that made several trips back, and even after becoming a P85 MKII. It still couldn't shoot a consistent group. I didn't learn my lesson with the P89, P90, nor a Red Hawk that would have to be tightened every time it was shot.

My new MKIII was a piece of crap that took a lot of work to make it reliable.

I would not trust them to make a quality 1911.

glock2740
06-12-2010, 18:44
What I would rather see is for Colt to come back strong & blow away everyone else. Of course that´s analagous to wishing for a sober Lindsay Lohan or Paris Hilton going to church. :whistling:
:rofl:Man, ain't that the truth. :rofl:But, BOGE, that's funny. :supergrin:

Don Glock
06-12-2010, 18:44
BOGE, the market is not saturated with affordable, quality American 1911s. agreed.

If Ruger built them for $600 or so, I strongly believe they would sell like crazy. :) based on two rugers i've owned--disagreed :)







.


.......

Quack
06-12-2010, 18:47
If Ruger built them for $600 or so, I strongly believe they would sell like crazy. :)

.

is that before or after the recall :whistling:

RonS
06-12-2010, 18:47
I have more Rugers than anything. No problems with any of them not ever the two .22s that used to get a couple hundred or more thru them every weekend all summer long.

With the new 1911 gripped .22 I think it is just a matter of time. I think that they should bring out a .45 target pistol, not a 1911, something designed ground up for target shooting, solving the barrel to frame to sight issues and with a super trigger.

Imagine something like a MKIII in .45. Optic platform, fixed barrel, adjustable trigger. Don't ask me how to lock it up though, that's what the engineers get the big bucks for.

glock2740
06-12-2010, 18:52
is that before or after the recall :whistling:
That's just mean Quack. :supergrin:

CMG
06-12-2010, 18:54
1911s are a niche market, in terms of firearms sales.

TDA and striker-fired SA pistols far outsell the 1911s in most places I've been.

Why would a company the size of Ruger want to invest R&D funds into a pistol with limited appeal (Yes, we fans of the design would clamor and shout that it's not limited but really, it is.), especially given the number of competitors already in that market?

I think their move to build a piston AR was a smarter choice. Their P95 is the best value out there in a poly-framed hi-cap 9mm.

bac1023
06-12-2010, 19:05
is that before or after the recall :whistling:

:rofl:

Hopefully, that's just their plastic junk.

Quack
06-12-2010, 19:09
:rofl:

Hopefully, that's just their plastic junk.

yep, how can they screw up a 99 year old design :rofl:

bac1023
06-12-2010, 19:11
Why would a company the size of Ruger want to invest R&D funds into a pistol with limited appeal (Yes, we fans of the design would clamor and shout that it's not limited but really, it is.), especially given the number of competitors already in that market?




Ruger has shown a recent history of breaking into a couple of saturated markets. The SR9 and LCP are two examples. Furthmore, I'm not sure exactly how much R&D they would need to develop a 1911. Obviously, it would be some, but certainly not as much as a new design.

They may be the only large American handgun manufacturer that doesn't offer a 1911. If they could sell one cheaper then Kimber, Colt, or Smith & Wesson, I believe it would be a winner for them. There's obviously money to be made in the 1911 market, as everyone is introducing one.







.

Quack
06-12-2010, 19:14
doesn't Ruger make the forgings for other manufacturer's?

Jason D
06-12-2010, 19:15
1911s are a niche market, in terms of firearms sales.

TDA and striker-fired SA pistols far outsell the 1911s in most places I've been.

Why would a company the size of Ruger want to invest R&D funds into a pistol with limited appeal (Yes, we fans of the design would clamor and shout that it's not limited but really, it is.), especially given the number of competitors already in that market?

I think their move to build a piston AR was a smarter choice. Their P95 is the best value out there in a poly-framed hi-cap 9mm.

Would they even need to invest much in R&D?
I mean what ever could posibably be done to a 1911 has already been done.

If they wanted to do a test run on them to see how the market would bare for them, they could just have a company like Caspian make the slides and frames for them. I assume they use CNC like anyone else. They could program it to make their own parts if they wanted, and they own Pine Tree Castings.

bac1023
06-12-2010, 19:31
yep, how can they screw up a 99 year old design :rofl:

Very true. ;)

bac1023
06-12-2010, 19:32
doesn't Ruger make the forgings for other manufacturer's?

Yes they do, but I'm not exactly sure who or what.

Believe me, it would not be terribly difficult for Ruger to get into the 1911 mix.

glock2740
06-12-2010, 19:56
Hey, if Taurus can make a 1911, then give Ruger a shot at it. I bet Ruger can do it better.

brisk21
06-12-2010, 20:44
Im pretty sure Ruger is capable of making a quality 1911. I think it could be good, but theyd probably make it an 80s series with a mag disconnect and ruin it. Also would probably put alot of warning labels on it like the mock up Ruger 1911 picture on this forum. If it aint popped up yet Im sure it will.

CMG
06-12-2010, 20:45
yep, how can they screw up a 99 year old design :rofl:

Ask Taurus that same question. :tongueout:

CMG
06-12-2010, 20:52
Ruger has shown a recent history of breaking into a couple of saturated markets. The SR9 and LCP are two examples. Furthmore, I'm not sure exactly how much R&D they would need to develop a 1911. Obviously, it would be some, but certainly not as much as a new design.

They may be the only large American handgun manufacturer that doesn't offer a 1911. If they could sell one cheaper then Kimber, Colt, or Smith & Wesson, I believe it would be a winner for them. There's obviously money to be made in the 1911 market, as everyone is introducing one.


.

The pocket-pistol market did not have nearly the number of entries the 1911 market has. Kahr and Taurus were both as late to the party as Ruger. Kel-Tec owned that niche until Ruger offered the LCP (which is so close to the P32/P3AT designs as to have been nick-named the Little Copycat Pistol).

The SR9 was not Ruger's first entry into the hi-cap synthetic framed 9mm market, nor is it even their best entry. Both distinctions go to their P95 (which they hoped the SR9 would supplant, but instead it still out-sells the SR9).

R&D takes many forms, and covers lots of things that are unique to your own manufacturing environment. Just adding another production stream to your facility takes a lot of fore-thought, equipment purchases, employee training, supplier sourcing, mold design, etc.

MD357
06-12-2010, 20:57
Ruger has spent all their time and resources IMITATING Kel-Tec:whistling:

:wavey:

Fixed.

FM12
06-12-2010, 21:25
Just include the recall with it, and be done with it.

Steel Head
06-12-2010, 21:44
BOGE, the market is not saturated with affordable, quality American 1911s.

If Ruger built them for $600 or so, I strongly believe they would sell like crazy. :)







.

I would love to see a Ruger 1911:wavey:

bac1023
06-12-2010, 23:23
Hey, if Taurus can make a 1911, then give Ruger a shot at it. I bet Ruger can do it better.

By far :)

auto45
06-13-2010, 06:59
Ruger supplies the 1911 frame castings for Caspian, who then fully machines them.

Ruger could "easily" produce a 1911...obviously not a difficult gun to produce as there are many producers or "assemblers".

I think Ruger should produce a "1911" 22. A variation of a 1911 anyway...sell "tons" of them if they are as accurate as their Mark pistols, and at good prices.

And, "scaled-down" 1911's for 380, 9mm, etc. I think there would be a large market for them also. They could "copy" the Colt 380 and have instant sales at much higher prices than their recent 380...which they have sold "lot's".

Glock wouldn't produce a 1911, they would just buy a 1911 company..."petty cash" for them I'd bet. :cool:

leeward419
06-13-2010, 07:14
Ruger is a small company that started in 1949 with the MK I 22. They seem to have the hunting arms (pistols) pretty much their niche. They make great revolvers for hunting with hot loads. I have a MK111 ,works great after removing the jamming gunk collector called a loaded chamber indicator. It is the most accurate pistol I own. after a year or so of taking it apart for cleaning every weekend, I can now dissasemble it without the owners manual. Ruger always designs some quirky stuff into their guns. They get it almost just right most times. I have a SR9, went thru the recall , the pistol has become very accurate now that I have like a few thousand rounds through it. It is heavy for a nine, easily concealable it aint. Recall installed trigger group so-so. I keep it because it shoots lead more accurately than my G34. Ruger seems to look for a niche entry for each of their products, then screws up good design concepts by corp comittee. hence the safety labels, loaded chamber indicators that interfer with the working of the gun. That being said, I read somewhere they have 350,000 lcp's on back ordr. I guess you cant argue with (monetary) sucess. But that pistol wont be remembered once someone makes one with sights etc...

glock2740
06-13-2010, 08:25
Ruger supplies the 1911 frame castings for Caspian, who then fully machines them.

Ruger could "easily" produce a 1911...obviously not a difficult gun to produce as there are many producers or "assemblers".

I think Ruger should produce a "1911" 22. A variation of a 1911 anyway...sell "tons" of them if they are as accurate as their Mark pistols, and at good prices.

And, "scaled-down" 1911's for 380, 9mm, etc. I think there would be a large market for them also. They could "copy" the Colt 380 and have instant sales at much higher prices than their recent 380...which they have sold "lot's".

Glock wouldn't produce a 1911, they would just buy a 1911 company..."petty cash" for them I'd bet. :cool:
Good idea. A Ruger 1911 .22, reasonably priced, that was as accurate as the Mk series, would be a hit.

Don Glock
06-13-2010, 12:45
yep, how can they screw up a 99 year old design :rofl:



kimber and taurus come to mind......:rofl:

bac1023
06-13-2010, 13:26
kimber and taurus come to mind......:rofl:

Wow. :wow:

I know some people don't like Kimbers, but you're grouping it with Taurus? :shocked:

I never had a single issue with any of mine.

GAFinch
06-13-2010, 13:27
The Ruger would be chambered in .454, weigh 100 oz, and come with Hogue wraparound grips.

bac1023
06-13-2010, 13:36
The Ruger would be chambered in .454, weigh 100 oz, and come with Hogue wraparound grips.

:rofl:

glock_19guy1983
06-13-2010, 13:40
I think ill stick with Colt, Kimber, and Springfield for 1911s. and any manufacturer but ruger for everything else. With friends like bill ruger who needs enemies:whistling::whistling:

Ebb27
06-13-2010, 13:42
Well Ruger used to be a company that built their own designs rather than just copying somebody else's work.

The LCP has been the exception to that rule.

I mean it's a lot easier for a company built on copying other company's designs like say Taurus, to just jump on the bandwagon of whatever is popular at the moment.



Perhaps the LCP will show them the light and we'll be seeing more Ruger copycat versions of other guns. ;)

98_1LE
06-13-2010, 13:45
Seems like too much risk to me. The 1911 market is plum full of contenders. Supplying everyone is probably better than competing with anyone. ;)

EDIT: Ruger is a hypocrite for building the LCP. They put AMT out of business for copying the MkII. I understand the patent issue, and Kelgren screwed the pooch on that one.

janice6
06-13-2010, 13:53
While it would be interesting to see a Ruger 1911, I still hold the company in contempt.
I may have made an exception for a MK pistol, but that was only because they have a huge after market following.

With past experience with Ruger pistols and one revolver, I wouldn't own anything else but their .22. A P85 that made several trips back, and even after becoming a P85 MKII. It still couldn't shoot a consistent group. I didn't learn my lesson with the P89, P90, nor a Red Hawk that would have to be tightened every time it was shot.

My new MKIII was a piece of crap that took a lot of work to make it reliable.

I would not trust them to make a quality 1911.


Years ago I sent my P85 back to Ruger and asked them to make it as accurate as it was originally intended to be. (It couldn't shoots groups it was so bad)

When it came back ((no charge) I bought it second hand)

It was the proverbial tack driver. As accurate as my Kimber.

The receipt said "No charge, new barrel and fitting".

Jason D
06-13-2010, 15:12
Years ago I sent my P85 back to Ruger and asked them to make it as accurate as it was originally intended to be. (It couldn't shoots groups it was so bad)

When it came back ((no charge) I bought it second hand)

It was the proverbial tack driver. As accurate as my Kimber.

The receipt said "No charge, new barrel and fitting".

The last thing they did to it was replace the barrel.
It still looked like a shot gun pattern at 25 yards.

The sad thing is that all the Ruger autos would feed everything, and were utterly reliable.

Don Glock
06-13-2010, 15:32
Wow. :wow:

I know some people don't like Kimbers, but you're grouping it with Taurus? :shocked:

I never had a single issue with any of mine.

lol

Just two examples of an inordinate amount of quality issues :)

CitizenOfDreams
06-13-2010, 15:37
How many more 1911 clones do we need? :dunno:

http://content.bored.com/photos/clones.jpg

Magus
06-13-2010, 16:51
The rumors were pretty strong a while back. I do think they were working on one but for whatever reason have decided not to bring it to market as of yet.

Personally, I hope they do. I like a lot of what Ruger makes. My old P90 was a great .45 for what it was and I'm a fan of their revolvers.

The 1911 market is no more saturated than any other at this point. Look at polymer pistols, look at AR's...etc. There's probably more choices now than there's ever been for a firearms enthusiast regardless of what you want. A lot of why people buy is brand loyalty. So honestly, I don't really see them having anything to lose. They've got pretty much every genre of firearm covered except the 1911, may as well run the gambit I say.

If Ruger made a 1911 it'd probably be a tank like most of their guns...which I'm all for. That and if the reliability is there with around a $600 price point as Bac said, the thing will sell like crazy and I know I'd buy one.

glock2740
06-13-2010, 17:08
kimber and taurus come to mind......:rofl:
Kimber? Really?....Pretty dumb statement comes to mind.

Don Glock
06-13-2010, 17:25
Kimber? Really?....Pretty dumb statement comes to mind.


'orly?

You must be new to the internet, & shooting sports as well :wow:

Cerebrus
06-13-2010, 17:37
Wow. :wow:

I know some people don't like Kimbers, but you're grouping it with Taurus? :shocked:

I never had a single issue with any of mine.

You actually own a Taurus 1911? :wow: where are the pix?









:rofl::rofl::rofl:

glock_19guy1983
06-13-2010, 17:41
Kimber? Really?....Pretty dumb statement comes to mind.

I have 3 Kimbers. CDP with roughly 6k rounds through it, a stainless II in 38 super with around 4k through it, and a kimber eclipse II with around 15k rounds through it. 25k rounds through 3 different guns without a single malfunction among them is enough for me to not listen to the kimber detracting keyboard commandos here. Ill continue to buy kimber.:tongueout::tongueout:

Don Glock
06-13-2010, 17:42
You actually own a Taurus 1911? :wow: where are the pix?









:rofl::rofl::rofl:


he's too ashamed to show it :rofl:

Quack
06-13-2010, 17:52
You actually own a Taurus 1911? :wow: where are the pix?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:



http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/014-2.jpg


he also has one of these.
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_2185-1.jpg

Don Glock
06-13-2010, 17:54
bac, i knew you were a man of exquisite taste, but i had no idea how exquisite! :rofl:

bac1023
06-13-2010, 19:54
bac, i knew you were a man of exquisite taste, but i had no idea how exquisite! :rofl:

I'm an equal opportunity gun owner. :tongueout:



:rofl:

samuse
06-13-2010, 20:08
They're probably still trying to find a publisher to tool up for their thousand word rollmark on firearms safety.:tongueout:

bac1023
06-13-2010, 20:17
They're probably still trying to find a publisher to tool up for their thousand word rollmark on firearms safety.:tongueout:

:animlol:

Don Glock
06-13-2010, 21:39
I'm an equal opportunity gun owner. :tongueout:



:rofl:


you obviously like to give the underprivileged guns a chance.....:rofl:

Quigley
06-13-2010, 21:44
Because Ruger has more important things to do then waste their time coming out with their own version of inferior designs.



:scared:

samuse
06-14-2010, 16:48
Because Ruger has more important things to do then waste their time coming out with their own version of inferior designs.



:scared:

OK. Party's over.







Improper use of then....:tongueout:

bac1023
06-14-2010, 20:14
you obviously like to give the underprivileged guns a chance.....:rofl:



You don't know the half of it. :tongueout:

Ebb27
06-14-2010, 22:29
OK. Party's over.



Improper use of then....:tongueout:




http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n200/srebough/GrammarNazi.gif




Uh-oh one of the Grammar Nazis is watching us!


:supergrin: