Will my Glock 21 drop a black bear? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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alfred10
06-13-2010, 17:55
:wow: Came accross a 200 pound black bear while I was walking my dog. Will my Glock 21 drop one? How much more penetration will a Glock 20 give my on a Bear? I decided to stick with the 21 for daily carry bit the 20 might be better for the woods? Do you think a Glock 20 would make a difference on a bear?

THe largest thing I have is a 4 inch .357 mag... Guess I should of not sold my .480 Ruger... I need to get money together to buy a .500 smith.

MURRAY
06-13-2010, 17:59
I would use the 357 with a 180 or 200 grain hardcast most times the BB wont be issue if it was I think 6 shots of HC could get it done

HydraShok
06-13-2010, 20:59
Someone in Denali killed a Grizzly with a .45 the other day.....
http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_story/7769224/article-No-new-details-in-Denali-bear-shooting

Ak.Hiker
06-13-2010, 21:48
No need for a 500 for black bear protection. If you do buy a bigger handgun a properly loaded 44 Magnum would be plenty. I carry a 320 grain hardcast or 300 grain Sierra in mine when woods walking. Either of these two loads will shoot through 7- 8 inches of spruce. Good advice on the 4 inch 357 Magnum. Hardcast 180 to 200 grain loads have plenty of penetration for black bear. The Buffalo Bore 180 is a hot load. DT and Federal both load heavy hardcast 357's as well as CorBon. If you do carry the Glock 21 pick up several boxes of Buffalo Bore 230 grain FMJ flat points. These are listed at 950 and are a +P load. They are long on penetration. Check them for function of course. They have a similar profile to their 230 grain XTP. In a 45 ACP I would stay away from SD designed hollow points for a field load. If I was going to carry a HP it would be the 230 grain XTP +P or the CorBon 185 grain +P DPX.

Glolt20-91
06-14-2010, 00:46
This Buffalo Bore hardcast caught my attention;

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=214

Also available at Midway;

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=248742

Dogs can sometimes become bear magnets, so be careful on the trail.

Bob :cowboy:

481
06-14-2010, 08:53
.....If you do carry the Glock 21 pick up several boxes of Buffalo Bore 230 grain FMJ flat points. These are listed at 950 and are a +P load. They are long on penetration. Check them for function of course. They have a similar profile to their 230 grain XTP. In a 45 ACP I would stay away from SD designed hollow points for a field load. If I was going to carry a HP it would be the 230 grain XTP +P or the CorBon 185 grain +P DPX.

Excellent advice, AK.

While I've never been one to advocate the use of a service cartridge semi-auto against such critters, were I constrained to do so for whatever reason, yours is the recommendation that I would follow.

Of course, should one hit the heavy bone inside even a smallish (150-200 pounds) bear "all bets are off".


Good post. :cool:

481
06-14-2010, 09:12
This Buffalo Bore hardcast caught my attention;

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=214

Also available at Midway;

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=248742

Dogs can sometimes become bear magnets, so be careful on the trail.

Bob :cowboy:

Those are some nice loads alright. I like that .45ACP 255 gr. LFP @ 925 fps. Nice.

Quite frankly, I consider my 'minimum' for bear to be my "iron sighted", 7.5 pound Winchester Model 70 Stainless Classic in .375H&H with its "belly" full of 300 gr. TSXs.

Yeah, she kicks like the proverbial "mule", but she also gets the job done. :supergrin:

crazyasian1
06-14-2010, 09:17
only if you hit him in the nards

CanyonMan
06-14-2010, 12:22
Those are some nice loads alright. I like that .45ACP 255 gr. LFP @ 925 fps. Nice.

Quite frankly, I consider my 'minimum' for bear to be my "iron sighted", 7.5 pound Winchester Model 70 Stainless Classic in .375H&H with its "belly" full of 300 gr. TSXs.

Yeah, she kicks like the proverbial "mule", but she also gets the job done. :supergrin:


Thats my minimum on coyotes ! :rofl:

You got the 'kicks like a mule right'. I sighted one in for a guy once, that was just not wanting to co-operate. This was over a truck hood, I got a little tired of it after 10-12 rounds, and discovering he had a junk scope ! haha.


CM



CM

481
06-14-2010, 13:01
Thats my minimum on coyotes ! :rofl:

You got the 'kicks like a mule right'. I sighted one in for a guy once, that was just not wanting to co-operate. This was over a truck hood, I got a little tired of it after 10-12 rounds, and discovering he had a junk scope ! haha.


CM

10-12 rounds. Sounds 'bout right. Start gettin' "flinchy" after that. If I am stubborn enough to fire 20, well, that guarantees all manner of assorted "aches and pains" the following day.

Coyotes must be HUGE in your neck of the woods. :supergrin:

CanyonMan
06-14-2010, 13:25
10-12 rounds. Sounds 'bout right. Start gettin' "flinchy" after that. If I am stubborn enough to fire 20, well, that guarantees all manner of assorted "aches and pains" the following day.

Coyotes must be HUGE in your neck of the woods. :supergrin:


Yeh, huge enough that any 22mag will easily take them down. ;)

Frankly, I still like the old 35 remington /45-70 marlin levers with heavy hard cast bullets for bear and such. They seem to be out dated by most of todays hunters/woodsters, but they have served me well within 200 yds, and carry some very serious punch. (if loaded correctly of course). The 35 Remington is usually the every day saddle scabbard carry for a long gun. More serious caliber than has been given credit for. Lots of old boys in Canada and Alaska still getting their moose/elk with them. 444 Marlin, 35 remington, 45-70 levers have always 'for me' been some high on the list 'saddle rifles'. Most all my hunting sees the 7mm Rem Mag, and has most my life. But these levers here have been great game getters for me as well.

Like AK, For a 'side arm,' I do loves the 44mag and heavy cast as 'my' minimum in really deep bruin country, and 'mostly' my beloved 45LC with Heavy Hard Cast. Probably a surprise to every one here, but thought I'd drop that in. :supergrin:



CM

DaveA
06-14-2010, 13:31
only if you hit him in the nards

While probably not the most accurate answer to the question, it sure made me laugh :tongueout:

RMTactical
06-14-2010, 14:00
I've heard of Black Bears being dropped with less (.40) I am sure the G21 would do the trick.

Free Radical
06-14-2010, 15:47
It depends a whole lot on where you hit.
Frankly, I was a little surprised to hear the news reports about the Griz being dropped by a .45 in Denali. But, if it was a face shot I guess that's entirely possible.
There are also accounts of guys that put 6 .44 Magnums into a griz and still wound up as bear scat.
For my part, more is more. I ain't fishing, hiking, or whistling Dixie in brown bear country with anything less than a 12 ga. w/ slugs or a 45/70.

481
06-14-2010, 18:42
This Buffalo Bore hardcast caught my attention;

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=214

Also available at Midway;

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=248742

Dogs can sometimes become bear magnets, so be careful on the trail.

Bob :cowboy:

Bob,

The MacPherson penetration model "numbers" for your edification:


Buffalo Bore .45 ACP 230 gr. FMJFP (+P) @ 950 fps

Vcav = 474.811 fps
Mw = 59.376 grams (2.094 ounces)
Xcm = 87.618 cm (34.495 inches)


Buffalo Bore .45 ACP 255 gr. LFP (+P) @ 925 fps

Vcav = 538.119 fps
Mw = 60.716 grams (2.142 ounces)
Xcm = 89.595 cm (35.274 inches)


Similar loads, similar results. Barely a penny's worth of difference 'tween the two and either is a "day-ender".

In keeping with the OP's question of whether or not a Glock 21 would "drop a black bear"; these loads are probably the best options in .45ACP if that is all that one has at their disposal. I'd likely trade the slight performance edge that the LFP has in favor of the FMJFP's jacketed exterior unless I could be absolutely certain that the LFP is a very hard alloy. (to guard against deformation)

After that, it's all about shot placement and follow-up (and more appropriately) just plain ole dumb luck.


:)

nelsone
06-15-2010, 18:55
Some of us don't like the idea of accelerated-aging our firearms with Buffalo Bore. Sure, I'd prefer a cannon in a face-off with a bear, but I won't let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

How's this for decent penetration in a load that you can fire and not tire:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=475521
1000+ fps in a 230gr. .45ACP FMJ.

GunFighter45ACP
06-16-2010, 08:52
Yikes! Whenever possible, I like to keep things simple so unless these bears become more of a common sight out there, I'll just +1 on the BB 230gr flat points. If you start seeing them more & more, then I think that could justify getting something a little heavier for that specific task.

.45Super-Man
06-16-2010, 16:23
I'd load up with .45 Super, just in case. Converting the G21 takes next to nothing.

Dalton Wayne
06-16-2010, 16:28
When I'm in bear country I wear bear bells on my boots, haven't stumbled on a bear yet, however I do carry a 45acp the bears down hear aren't that large
Regards
DW

http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3664558

Ak.Hiker
06-16-2010, 23:17
Some of us don't like the idea of accelerated-aging our firearms with Buffalo Bore. Sure, I'd prefer a cannon in a face-off with a bear, but I won't let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

How's this for decent penetration in a load that you can fire and not tire:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=475521
1000+ fps in a 230gr. .45ACP FMJ.

The DT 230 grain ball load is a good one as well. I have shot quite a few in my Glock 36. They are a little hotter than Speer Lawman or American Eagle 230 ball. They would be a good choice for the woods as well. I would take any major brand of 230 grain FMJ ball over a JHP as a field load in a 45 ACP in black bear country because of the better penetration.

bnkrtstk
06-17-2010, 08:05
Are you going to shoot the bear, or beat it with the G21?

Tommy Kelly
06-17-2010, 17:18
From what I understand black bears aren't hard to stop. I have never killed one we are beginning to get a few around here. I will probably never hunt a black bear. I have all the gun's for it but wouldn't care to shoot one. I have a 4" 500 S&W loaded with 700 gr. lead wide meplat ammo. I also have a 454 ruger alaskan and a wide variety of big handguns capable of the kill. If I were worried about bear attacks I would be prepaired with just about any of my guns I think. And yes I have the glocks also a g20, g21,g22,and g17 probably any of these would be fine. I have a friend that has bear hunted for years and killed quite a few including grizzly's. His advice was to break the bear down with the first shot then kill it with followup shots because the heartrate is so slow on a bear that it could attack and kill you after a killing shot from a long distance because of the slow heartbeat. I don't know but my friend has hunted all over the world for years so I give him credit for knowing what he is talking about. The only bear I would like to take is a polar bear with them you don't hunt them they hunt you for food. That would be a challenge kill or be killed.

dougader
06-17-2010, 20:01
I'd load up with .45 Super, just in case. Converting the G21 takes next to nothing.

Yep.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/1st45Super_2.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/1st45Super_4.jpg

PATRICE
06-19-2010, 12:30
......

.45Super-Man
06-19-2010, 19:23
Yep.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/1st45Super_2.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/1st45Super_4.jpg

There you go! I was pushing 1,100fps with an LW 6inch non-ported barrel with 260gr Keith style hardcast a few years back when I had that set up. Like the 10mm, you can reliably drop deer, blackbear and wild boar, no problem!

dougader
06-19-2010, 19:59
There you go! I was pushing 1,100fps with an LW 6inch non-ported barrel with 260gr Keith style hardcast a few years back when I had that set up. Like the 10mm, you can reliably drop deer, blackbear and wild boar, no problem!

This is a 265 grain WFNGC bullet from Beartooth bullets. I love this bullet in 45 Super and my 45 Colt revolvers. I have run it anywhere from 900 fps to 1144 fps from the LW 6" ported barrel with Blue Dot in 45 Super. Its very accurate and punches cookie-cutter .452" holes through anything it hits.

My goal was to match the old 45 Colt load of a 250-260 grain bullet at 900 fps. John Linebaugh talks of killing deer at 100 yards with that load in revolvers. I have no problem doing this with the 45 Super. Recoil, IMO, is less than the DT 200 grain loads I used to shoot in my G20.

CanyonMan
06-21-2010, 09:10
This is a 265 grain WFNGC bullet from Beartooth bullets. I love this bullet in 45 Super and my 45 Colt revolvers. I have run it anywhere from 900 fps to 1144 fps from the LW 6" ported barrel with Blue Dot in 45 Super. Its very accurate and punches cookie-cutter .452" holes through anything it hits.

My goal was to match the old 45 Colt load of a 250-260 grain bullet at 900 fps. John Linebaugh talks of killing deer at 100 yards with that load in revolvers. I have no problem doing this with the 45 Super. Recoil, IMO, is less than the DT 200 grain loads I used to shoot in my G20.



Never tried the 45 super. Going to have to do that one of these days.
Everything around here gets Hard Cast from BearTooth, or Cast Performance, or Hunters Supply, second place goes to Hornady XTP's.


Left to right: 45LC 335gr Cast Performance, 44mag 275gr Hunters Supply, and a 10mm 200gr Beartooth.


http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/0621000933.jpg


G20 10mm 200gr Cast performance.

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/pics113.jpg

One more look at the 45LC 335gr.


http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/0621000934a.jpg

I usuall load a 300gr HC 45LC to 1150/1200fps with H110, or use 2400 for 1100 +fps. On the 275grs in both 45LC and 44mag I go with for 2400, or sometimes H110. The 200gr 10mm in G20 gets 1200+fps

At 100 yards from a Ruger Black Hawk 45LC the 300gr HC goes through both shoulders on elk. What's not to like? :supergrin:





CanyonMan

GunFighter45ACP
06-21-2010, 10:53
My computer just crashed due to my drool over all these pics & CanyonMan's load data...

DonD
06-21-2010, 17:31
Some of us don't like the idea of accelerated-aging our firearms with Buffalo Bore. Sure, I'd prefer a cannon in a face-off with a bear, but I won't let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

I've shot a good bit of Buffalo Bore in my GP100 and SP101 Rugers. They certainly don't seem over the top pressure wise. They all extract easily and the primers don't show signs of high pressure. Don

dougader
06-21-2010, 19:47
The Cast Performance 335 grain WLNGC is my favorite 45 caliber bullet in 45 Colt and 454 Casull. I love the 265 grain WFNGC in standard pressure 45 Colt and 45 Super.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/335WLNGC45Colt.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/265WFNGC45Colt.jpg

I always carried a 45 auto (G30) with the DT fmjfp load, or even G19 in 9mm when I was fishing on local Oregon rivers. Then I actually ran across a black bear one afternoon. Sure... as soon as the bear saw me he took off like a bolt of lightning through the brush to get away. But it got me thinking a little bit about my choice of a "woods" caliber gun. So I started carrying a 45 Colt Blackhawk or my Mt Gun.

But I run into idiots out in the woods, too, so I stepped up to a G21 set up for 45 Super. Fourteen rounds of a 265 grain WFNGC at 1100 fps makes me feel just a little more at ease when I'm all by myself in the middle of a river with a line in the water.

mikegun
06-21-2010, 21:21
I've heard of Black Bears being dropped with less (.40) I am sure the G21 would do the trick.

People hunt them with bows and kill them, i would think any decent higher cal hand gun would do the trick with a very well placed shot, that is...:wavey:

Ak.Hiker
06-21-2010, 23:02
[QUOTE=DonD;15514635]I've shot a good bit of Buffalo Bore in my GP100 and SP101 Rugers. They certainly don't seem over the top pressure wise. They all extract easily and the primers don't show signs of high pressure. Don[/QUOTE

+1

hackinpeat
06-22-2010, 04:44
Not that anyone wants to get within 30 feet of an angry bear... BUT...
http://www.bearicuda.com/rd/images/documents/bear-spray-collage.jpg

You don't always have to kill someone/something to get the point across. I grew up in bear and cougar country. and if there is one thing I believe it is that they are afraid as you are unless provoked, or in the wrong season.

No cubs, no starvation, no problem.

I've shouted and screamed at full grown mountain lions twice, and bear a time or two, they usually turn tail.

that is step 1, step two for the non-hunter is to mace them if they are that close (if its a wildcat just shoot it, they are a hell of a lot more aggressive and sneaky than a bear, and will stalk you if they are given the chance.)

I've used this stuff before to get a territorial mother grizzly off my tail, I was too far to use it directly so I laid a squirt behind me skunk style as I ran away from the area near her cubs I stupidly stumbled onto. she followed for a moment, caught a whiff, and turned around looking like she had discovered hay fever.

CanyonMan
06-22-2010, 07:00
The Cast Performance 335 grain WLNGC is my favorite 45 caliber bullet in 45 Colt and 454 Casull. I love the 265 grain WFNGC in standard pressure 45 Colt and 45 Super.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/335WLNGC45Colt.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/265WFNGC45Colt.jpg

I always carried a 45 auto (G30) with the DT fmjfp load, or even G19 in 9mm when I was fishing on local Oregon rivers. Then I actually ran across a black bear one afternoon. Sure... as soon as the bear saw me he took off like a bolt of lightning through the brush to get away. But it got me thinking a little bit about my choice of a "woods" caliber gun. So I started carrying a 45 Colt Blackhawk or my Mt Gun.

But I run into idiots out in the woods, too, so I stepped up to a G21 set up for 45 Super. Fourteen rounds of a 265 grain WFNGC at 1100 fps makes me feel just a little more at ease when I'm all by myself in the middle of a river with a line in the water.



Yes sir. These bad boys have always gave me a warm comfortable feeling. :supergrin:

I'll have to try the 45 super for fun at least. Never tried 'em. BTW. You got a pic of one of your 45 supers loaded up with cast ?


(Your makin me want to go trout fising amigo) ! ;)



Stay Safe.



CanyonMan

SDGlock23
06-22-2010, 09:51
Heavy hardcast bullets.... It's enough to bring tears of joy to my eyes!!

Glockman454
06-22-2010, 18:23
As most all have replied, yes a 10mm with a good load and a good shot should take down a black bear fine. Just use good ammo with the right bullet. i.e. DoubleTap, Buffalo Bore etc.

My choice would be either a DoubleTap 200gr controlled expansion if you have a stock barrel. If you can shoot lead, go with a 215 gr or 230 gr flat-nosed hard-cast lead. That is just my opinion and preference.

If I heard right, the Alaska State Police carry the Glock 20 in case of a polar bear confrontation... I wish I could remember where I read that.

Actually I would feel more comfortable with a 500 magnum against an adult polar bear.

dougader
06-22-2010, 19:49
Hey Amigo:

Here's the 265 WFNGC loaded up in 45 Super cases. Remember, these are loaded in 45 Super brass from Starline. And I shoot these in an aftermarket barrel with decent case support along with a 22 pound recoil guide-rod spring.
These are necessarily loaded short into the cases because of the tighter chamber and shorter throat of the LW barrel.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/1st45Super_4.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/1st45Super_2.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/MVC-001F.jpg

CanyonMan
06-23-2010, 06:22
Hey Amigo:

Here's the 265 WFNGC loaded up in 45 Super cases. Remember, these are loaded in 45 Super brass from Starline. And I shoot these in an aftermarket barrel with decent case support along with a 22 pound recoil guide-rod spring.
These are necessarily loaded short into the cases because of the tighter chamber and shorter throat of the LW barrel.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/1st45Super_4.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/1st45Super_2.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/MVC-001F.jpg



Very Cool indeed ! :cool:

There will be a PM on the way to you sometime today ! ;)


Thanks !




CM

Alaskapopo
06-24-2010, 22:51
:wow: Came accross a 200 pound black bear while I was walking my dog. Will my Glock 21 drop one? How much more penetration will a Glock 20 give my on a Bear? I decided to stick with the 21 for daily carry bit the 20 might be better for the woods? Do you think a Glock 20 would make a difference on a bear?

THe largest thing I have is a 4 inch .357 mag... Guess I should of not sold my .480 Ruger... I need to get money together to buy a .500 smith.

The 45 acp is not a bear round. The 10mm would be a better choice given what you said. Personally I would not want to use either. Black bears can be tough to kill. I have had to kill 2 on duty using shotgun slugs. Neither went down with just one slug. Both took multiple rounds. A 12 gauge Breneke slug is a lot more power than any handgun round. In your shoes I would get a 629 mountain gun and load it with 300 grain hard cast bullets.

This is my bear gun. A custom revolver by Hamilton Bowen. A 5 shot 45 loaded to 1400 fps with 350 grain hard cast slugs.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Revolvers/IM000872.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Revolvers/Bowen.jpg

Alaskapopo
06-24-2010, 22:52
Hey Amigo:

Here's the 265 WFNGC loaded up in 45 Super cases. Remember, these are loaded in 45 Super brass from Starline. And I shoot these in an aftermarket barrel with decent case support along with a 22 pound recoil guide-rod spring.
These are necessarily loaded short into the cases because of the tighter chamber and shorter throat of the LW barrel.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/1st45Super_4.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/1st45Super_2.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d132/dougader/MVC-001F.jpg


What velocity are you getting from those slugs?
pat

dougader
06-25-2010, 11:52
I have run them from 900 fps up to 1144 fps with Blue Dot and WLP primers and Starline 45 Super brass. If anyone else wants to try it, I suggest starting at about 8.0 grains Blue Dot. My 1033 fps load with this bullets uses 9.3 grains Blue Dot. The 45 Super case is strong and the aftermarket barrel offers more case support than stock. The porting on the 6" LW barrel helps slow the slide down and 22# recoil springs help too.

Others have talked about FTF problems and I haven't had that with this set-up.

I would feel better with a revolver in 44 mag or heavy 45 Colt, too, but I figure this is a good compromise considering the areas I fish.

454ThunderGod
06-25-2010, 13:28
While I agree that a .45 acp is not much of a bear gun, Im also reminded that a 200lb black bear is really not much of a bear.

Alaskapopo
06-25-2010, 13:33
While I agree that a .45 acp is not much of a bear gun, Im also reminded that a 200lb black bear is really not much of a bear.

Its enough. A 200 pound black bear is a lot harder to kill than a human. I have done it.
Pat

454ThunderGod
06-25-2010, 19:18
Its enough. A 200 pound black bear is a lot harder to kill than a human. I have done it.
Pat

Yes of course, and so are similar weight hogs. But nonetheless, while I would certainly never choose it for myself, a 200lb black bear would be within the realm of capabilities for at least a full magazine of .45acp.

Alaskapopo
06-25-2010, 19:29
Yes of course, and so are similar weight hogs. But nonetheless, while I would certainly never choose it for myself, a 200lb black bear would be within the realm of capabilities for at least a full magazine of .45acp.

I disagree based on personal experience. The 45 acp may kill a bear but it is not a good choice. Even 45 ball does not penetrate that far into them.

I have shot 2 bear on duty. The first was on that charged me and it went down with 2 slugs then tried to get back up and I put 2 more into it reloaded and put 2 more in the head just to make sure. The second one I shot when the bear rose up to smell me. This bear had been geting into peoples apartments. I waited until I had a safe back stop and I did as soon as the bear exited the laundry room on the apartment complex. It raised up on its hind legs to smell me or get a better look. I was 7 yards away. I shot it square in the chest. It turned to run. I fired as it turned and put one in its back and one in the shoulder. It was not able to move that fast. I reloaded my shotgun as I followed it. It spun around and began to bit at its mid section (where it had been hit) I put three more rounds into it and it hit the dirt. Once it was down I fired 2 rounds into its head to make sure it was dead. The rounds used were 2 3/4 inch Breneke slugs mags. That bear weighed about 200 pounds. I would not want to have had to use my 45 acp duty pistol on it. I have a healthy respect for bears ability to take a lot of damage and keep going.
Pat

bwh21
06-25-2010, 19:40
When I'm in bear country I wear bear bells on my boots, haven't stumbled on a bear yet

Notice the last paragraph.

http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/grizzly-bear-warning.jpg

Alaskapopo
06-25-2010, 19:52
People hunt them with bows and kill them, i would think any decent higher cal hand gun would do the trick with a very well placed shot, that is...:wavey:

Bows acually do more damage. They cut a lot more meat and there is a lot more bleading vs a service pistol round.
Pat

Chonny
06-25-2010, 20:06
I'd use those 230 gr Buffalo Bore FMJFNs. The Glock can handle +p ammo just fine. I wouldn't get the lead 255 gr bullets for a G21.

The guy that killed the grizzly basically came face to face with death and had to do what he had to do. He got lucky that the bear ran off and bled out instead of mauling him to death and then bleeding out. Does anyone know what gun/ammo he was using?

Personally when I was 15 we saw the game ranger before going on a two week hike/camping trip and my dad talked to him for a while. Besides hanging our stuff in bear bags he said if we see a bear to yell at it "GO AWAY BEAR." He said he tells people that in case they freeze up and can't think of what to do. Lastly he said if the bear does decide to attack which is unlikely to go ahead and fight it and it will run off, kick and punch at the nose. He said not to run because they will likely chase you down but you can hold your ground with the black bears and their various derivatives.

We were up in some mountain range for two weeks. On one of our last few days I was hiking fast and got ahead of the group. I come up a hill and I saw a bear hanging out by a tree. I got kind of scared but was just sort of watching it for a few seconds and I was about to yell and wave my walking stick. I was far away and I was unsure whether to stop or begin safety measures because of the distance I just knew I wasn't backing up. I shouldered my walking stick like a rifle and pointed it at the bear and took a few steps forward the bear it turned his head at me for a half a second and it just ran off. At the time I was like hell yeah I outsmarted that bear but of course it as just scared of human contact.

Chonny
06-25-2010, 20:14
A bow or crossbow with the right arrow tip can do massive damage you can kill a grizzly with one good hit. A lot of people don't realize how strong bows or crossbows are.

Bows were the original armor penetrators, massive force on a small tip

481
06-25-2010, 20:16
Notice the last paragraph.

http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/grizzly-bear-warning.jpg



Priceless. I've seen that "Safety Announcement" elsewhere. Always worth a good laugh.

Thanks.

mannyCA
06-25-2010, 22:59
There you go! I was pushing 1,100fps with an LW 6inch non-ported barrel with 260gr Keith style hardcast a few years back when I had that set up. Like the 10mm, you can reliably drop deer, blackbear and wild boar, no problem!



+1 I use a 265gr Keith style going over 960fps, wide metplat is excellent on bruins and pigs.

454ThunderGod
06-26-2010, 00:36
I disagree based on personal experience. The 45 acp may kill a bear but it is not a good choice. Even 45 ball does not penetrate that far into them.

I have shot 2 bear on duty. The first was on that charged me and it went down with 2 slugs then tried to get back up and I put 2 more into it reloaded and put 2 more in the head just to make sure. The second one I shot when the bear rose up to smell me. This bear had been geting into peoples apartments. I waited until I had a safe back stop and I did as soon as the bear exited the laundry room on the apartment complex. It raised up on its hind legs to smell me or get a better look. I was 7 yards away. I shot it square in the chest. It turned to run. I fired as it turned and put one in its back and one in the shoulder. It was not able to move that fast. I reloaded my shotgun as I followed it. It spun around and began to bit at its mid section (where it had been hit) I put three more rounds into it and it hit the dirt. Once it was down I fired 2 rounds into its head to make sure it was dead. The rounds used were 2 3/4 inch Breneke slugs mags. That bear weighed about 200 pounds. I would not want to have had to use my 45 acp duty pistol on it. I have a healthy respect for bears ability to take a lot of damage and keep going.
Pat

Never said it was a good choice. I only said it was capable of killing the bear that size.

454ThunderGod
06-26-2010, 00:41
For the record, the ideal handgun for any bear is a magnum revolver. It is more effective at stopping a bear, and much more reliable. If a service pistol is all you have, then hey, you gotta do what you gotta do...and even if a .45acp can bring down a small bear with enough shots, it is idiotic to willingly take a service pistol into any bear country instead of a magnum revolver.

dougader
06-26-2010, 10:42
I think there's a distinction, too, between killing a bear and stopping a bear. I imagine there are more calibers capable of killing a bear than actually stopping a bear intent on attack and harm.

I read a story once in a gun mag.... American Hunter, Shooting Times.... I can't remember which one. They showed an old black and white picture of a little Inuit girl with a small, single shot ..22 rifle. IIRC, she only had a 22 short in her rifle at the time.

A grizzly bear had been following her and her younger brother. So she hid behind a bush and as the grizzly walked by she fired into the side of the bear's head. It fell over dead.

Now, she killed that bear on the spot with her tiny 22 rifle. I would call that miraculous and certainly wouldn't depend on any 22 rim-fire for bear protection.

Bow hunters don't depend on their broadheads to stop a charge, either. They stalk and hunt, shooting their prey in an ambush. The goal is to get a good shot at an animal that doesn't even know they are being hunted. The animal gets hit, runs a bit, bleeds out and dies.... then the hunter tracks the animal.

Stopping a charge or an attack is a lot harder than killing an animal. Every few years you hear a story of a hunter found dead next to their dangerous prey. Like the hunter who shot a grizzly, only to be mauled to death. The grizzly was found about 20 yards away, dead from the eventually fatal rifle shot.

When I was fishing and saw that black bear across the river from me, I wasn't immediately concerned. I figure that bear was anywhere from 250-350 pounds. I am not very good at judging weight, but he looked as though he was at least double my weight. But if the bear hadn't run like a freight train away from me, and instead started crossing the river toward me I would have been looking for a decent alder tree to climb.

I had a G19 with me then in a fanny pack wrapped around my waders at my waist. I had an extra mag loaded with the old Samson/Uzi 115 grain fmj +P+ carbine ammo. The main mag was loaded with CorBon 115 grain jhp +P.

After that happened I decided to carry something bigger. At different times I have carried a Ruger Blackhawk or Redhawk loaded with 45 Colt, 335 grain hardcast handloads at about 1200 fps.

But those darn revolvers are heavy, especially when you hike in to fish and sometimes have to carry out 1 or 2 steelhead that run anywhere from 5 - 15 pounds each... or salmon that easily run 25 pounds.

For a time I carried a G30 with the DT 230 grain fmjfp. That ammo is advertised at 1010 fps from a 5" 1911. Across my chrony, actual velocity from my G21 was 843 fps. I found that a bit weak for bear medicine.

Now, I see more shady characters/varmints that walk on two legs than dangerous animals that use all four legs to ambulate. So I really wanted something in a semi-auto that would hold more rounds and offer a faster reload than a SA or DA revolver. That's when I started looking at the 45 Super.

I owned a G20 in the past, and I think its a great round and serves well as a SD and woods carry weapon. But I sold it because my hands were just too little to hold onto it with full power loads.

When the G1sf came out, I found it was just enough smaller in the grip to give my mitts good purchase, so I bought it. I imagine I'll eventually get a conversion barrel for 10mm, but I already had dies, bullets, etc, in 45.

My only problem now is carrying the 45 Super. It won't fit into my fanny pack with that 6" barrel! So I need to get new leather. I'd like to try the LW longslide for the 45 Super and/or 10mm too. That set-up looks sweet.

ULVER
06-26-2010, 18:22
Check this out!!! :wow::shocked:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d7a_1277139136

dougader
06-26-2010, 18:58
Check this out!!! :wow::shocked:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d7a_1277139136

Yeah, that guy was asking for trouble. To sit there filming a mama bear and her cubs. Everyone knows surprising a mama with cubs is dangerous.

You play in the street long enough, you're gonna get run over eventually.

If he had shot that bear, I think he should be charged with an unlawful killing/shooting of that animal.

JBP55
06-30-2010, 15:04
A 350# Bear was killed in Walker, La. Today with one round of 180gr. Gold Dot fired from a G35. Pictures posted on Bayou Shooter.

mikegun
07-03-2010, 09:36
Not that anyone wants to get within 30 feet of an angry bear... BUT...
http://www.bearicuda.com/rd/images/documents/bear-spray-collage.jpg

You don't always have to kill someone/something to get the point across. I grew up in bear and cougar country. and if there is one thing I believe it is that they are afraid as you are unless provoked, or in the wrong season.

No cubs, no starvation, no problem.

I've shouted and screamed at full grown mountain lions twice, and bear a time or two, they usually turn tail.

that is step 1, step two for the non-hunter is to mace them if they are that close (if its a wildcat just shoot it, they are a hell of a lot more aggressive and sneaky than a bear, and will stalk you if they are given the chance.)

I've used this stuff before to get a territorial mother grizzly off my tail, I was too far to use it directly so I laid a squirt behind me skunk style as I ran away from the area near her cubs I stupidly stumbled onto. she followed for a moment, caught a whiff, and turned around looking like she had discovered hay fever.

I know for a fact this stuff works and works well, just remember to have it very closeby...

mikegun
07-03-2010, 09:43
I have said it before and ill say it again, your Glock 45 auto will kill a 200lb black bear, the shots must be well placed......fire to lockback...

Glock1911
07-11-2010, 12:41
Is there a problem shooting .45 Super in a G21 using a compensated barrel and a stiffer spring?

ubersoldat
07-11-2010, 12:49
I would say a g21 45acp would drop a black bear pretty quick.
It would have to be dipped in poison first, then wrapped in bacon.
It might take a while for his digestive system to take effect from the poison after he eats it and you, but I would think it would drop him...

nwmthunter
07-17-2010, 21:09
.45 is a very bad choice for bear, the 10mm with full power loads is a much better choice.

unit1069
07-18-2010, 11:56
I'd load up with .45 Super, just in case. Converting the G21 takes next to nothing.

That sounds right to me.

If the OP knew he was always going to run into a 200-pound black bear I think his G-21 would be okay. The problem is the next time outdoors he might run into an angry 400-pound bear.

f150man
07-25-2010, 21:22
A 200lb bear bear? Gee, I'm a 268lb white man w/ a gun. If you need a cannon for a 200lb what would you need against me?

Alaskapopo
07-25-2010, 21:31
A 200lb bear bear? Gee, I'm a 268lb white man w/ a gun. If you need a cannon for a 200lb what would you need against me?

Bears have much denser bones and muscle tissue and much thicker hide and as a result are much harder to stop than a human.
Pat

9mm +p+
07-25-2010, 22:33
Yep, it might just stop it, after it eats your carcass it might choke on your 21...

CanyonMan
07-26-2010, 14:37
Pepper spray burns their Uinary tract !


http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/yrag5951/GT%20stuff/untitled6743.jpg





CM

Colorado4Wheel
07-28-2010, 14:13
Not that anyone wants to get within 30 feet of an angry bear... BUT...
http://www.bearicuda.com/rd/images/documents/bear-spray-collage.jpg

You don't always have to kill someone/something to get the point across. I grew up in bear and cougar country. and if there is one thing I believe it is that they are afraid as you are unless provoked, or in the wrong season.

No cubs, no starvation, no problem.

I've shouted and screamed at full grown mountain lions twice, and bear a time or two, they usually turn tail.

that is step 1, step two for the non-hunter is to mace them if they are that close (if its a wildcat just shoot it, they are a hell of a lot more aggressive and sneaky than a bear, and will stalk you if they are given the chance.)

I've used this stuff before to get a territorial mother grizzly off my tail, I was too far to use it directly so I laid a squirt behind me skunk style as I ran away from the area near her cubs I stupidly stumbled onto. she followed for a moment, caught a whiff, and turned around looking like she had discovered hay fever.

Good advice. We carry that and my G20 when we are in the woods. I would rather use the spray then my gun any day of the week on a bear.

Alaskapopo
07-28-2010, 19:27
I don't trust Pepper Spray. It works sometimes for sure. But it does not work on even people some of the time in my experience. A firearm with proper shot placement and caliber will always work if you do your part. Tasers work on bears some times too. We had an idiot working for us in the past who actually used her taser on a black bear. It ran off after the 5 second ride was over.
Pat

CanyonMan
07-28-2010, 19:31
I don't trust Pepper Spray. It works sometimes for sure. But it does not work on even people some of the time in my experience. A firearm with proper shot placement and caliber will always work if you do your part. Tasers work on bears some times too. We had an idiot working for us in the past who actually used her taser on a black bear. It ran off after the 5 second ride was over.
Pat



Thanks ! Saved me some writting. :thumbsup:




CM