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rmeron
06-17-2010, 15:52
I would like opinions on the .357 SIG cartridge,my next Glock might be in that cartridge.

jeffreybehr
06-17-2010, 17:02
My Glock 'career' started 1-1/2 years ago with a .40-cal. model 35. I subsequently bought (and sold) 2 compact 23s and a compact .45GAP-cal. 38, which never felt excellent in my hand (while the 23s did).

I now own, love, and carry a 357SIG-cal. model 32 with Pearce pinky mag extenders...
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Glock%2032/32w45barrellite_1000w.jpg
...and a Lone Wolf 4.5" barrel.

With all calibers shooting full-power loads, IMO the .40S&W and the 357SIG feel about the same, that being relatively sharp, quick, snappy, compared with lower-velocity 45s (ACP and GAP). I LOVE to shoot my .45GAP 37s in competition, as they're not at all tiring with their slow, relatively mild recoil. Some users say that the 357SIG is louder than other guns, but I plug and muff myself so well I don't notice.

I chose the 357SIG as a Personal-Defense tool, and I carry premium, factory ammo, that being 125g. Speer Gold Dots in the higher-velocity LE load. I reload 124g. Berry plated HPs for practice, and blowing up waterjugs is QUITE fun with it. :supergrin:

nickcarr
06-17-2010, 17:15
What Glock do you have now? If you a 40 cal model you can likely upgrade the barrel and magazine and shoot .357SIG without having to buy a full pistol.

VT RAIDER
06-17-2010, 17:27
I like the .357 Sig round and have shoot it in a G31 and HK USPc... Little bit of snap but not unmanageable...

BlutoBlutarsky
06-17-2010, 18:10
Been carrying a 357sig for over 10 years. My EDC was a Sig229, I changed to a Glock 33 in Feb. to lighten the load. The G33 is a little snappier than the 229 but I added the Pearce +0 extension and it shoots like a dream. I my opinion the 357sig is the best carry round out there, I love it. Once I get my reloading room reworked and set things up for 357sig, I'll be able to shoot more for the same cost as 9mm.

Get yourself one, you won't regret it.

Brent10mm
06-17-2010, 18:12
I got a G32 a few days ago...

the 357 sig is a powerhouse, only cartridge with more measurable energy in a glock would be 10mm. which I have the G20 also. :cool:

the G32 is accurate, compact enough for comfortable IWB carry, good round count. also has the ability to shoot .40 S&W and 9mm with lonewolf conversion barrels... (9mm uses 9mm mags) , but you get 3 guns in one, more or less.

this vid kinda sold me on it, the energy is very visible by the Geysers shooting upwards and out of the cameras vision...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNZpXBfsw84

the round has great penetration too, which is why its the 2nd most popular state trooper caliber....

while it will never match a true .357 mag load, it comes very close... and you get more than 6 rounds...

here's a few links you might enjoy...

http://www.stevespages.com/page8f357sig.html
http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/9mm.357.compare.htm
http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar66.htm

GunFighter45ACP
06-17-2010, 20:58
I love this caliber! Keep in mind the cost of ammo & availability, though, especially if this will be your only pistol caliber on hand.

CTM_357
06-17-2010, 22:04
I love my g31!

jwizzl497
06-17-2010, 22:17
For what it's worth (not much by the way) I have compiled every ballistics table, energy statistics, measurements in expansion and penetration, etc that I could find and comapred, as best I could, the major calibers and what I found in terms of power is this..

1. 10mm
2. 45acp
3. 357sig
4. 40sw
5. 9mm

I'm stating that not to hijack or turn this into a caliber war but it's meant to be in support of those who attest to the 357sig power. I know I was surprised at the overwhelming evidence that seems to indicate that the 357sig is one awesome round!!! Although I don't fully understand the dynamic relationship between diameter of bullet and speed at which it travels, the 2 are equally important. Diameter is what makes the 45acp rock and speed is what makes a little .223 so deadly so there is proof that both are important. What's troubled me over the years is - At what point does speed begin to offset or supersede diameter? Rifles have proved that speed can be the dictating factor but at what point? Obviously I have no idea, but speed is what makes this round so awesome and I do fully believe it's more powerful than the 40sw and the 9mm.

I realize I may be wrong, but this is just my opinion based off the info I have found thus far.

JW1178
06-17-2010, 22:31
One thing you notice about .357sig owners, they are just enthused to talk about their guns, which tells you something. My next gun, if I can ever afford one in this economy, will be a .357sig, probably a G32, as I love my G19, but want more punch. I love my 10mm's but they are a bit heavy and large for daily CCW for me.

Morgo
06-17-2010, 23:32
Great fun and works well on 50yard 8" steel plates :)

http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp4/brycemorgan452/P1030022.jpg

Brent10mm
06-17-2010, 23:38
I have a G20, G32 & G36
and have had G19 and g23.... sold the 23 to fund to 36, sold the 19 to fund the 32.

to jwizz- the 10mm is hands down the auto class power leader. the 40/45 are tied for 3/4th, caliber over capacity choice, with equal energy roughly.
but the sig is 95% of the 357 mag, which imo; beats the 45.

but, dont get me wrong, both calibers are top notch. however, the penetration and energy dump of the 357 bests the large wound cavity of the 45 imo.
also, high velocity 9mm rounds to the chest have been documented to cause brain hemoraging...sp. the 2nd to the last link, in my last post goes on various debating on energy dump theory's... and the only caliber that could compete with the 10mm, in gel test's was the 357 sig.

in summary, the 357 mag is at that level that velocity overtakes bullet diameter, and causes hydrostatic shock. the sig, was designed from the ground up to match that performance, but in a auto.

mikeflys1
06-18-2010, 00:02
I have a G20, G32 & G36
and have had G19 and g23.... sold the 23 to fund to 36, sold the 19 to fund the 32.

to jwizz- the 10mm is hands down the auto class power leader. the 40/45 are tied for 3/4th, caliber over capacity choice, with equal energy roughly.
but the sig is 95% of the 357 mag, which imo; beats the 45.

but, dont get me wrong, both calibers are top notch. however, the penetration and energy dump of the 357 bests the large wound cavity of the 45 imo.
also, high velocity 9mm rounds to the chest have been documented to cause brain hemoraging...sp. the 2nd to the last link, in my last post goes on various debating on energy dump theory's... and the only caliber that could compete with the 10mm, in gel test's was the 357 sig.

in summary, the 357 mag is at that level that velocity overtakes bullet diameter, and causes hydrostatic shock. the sig, was designed from the ground up to match that performance, but in a auto.

I think you just guaranteed this thread will go at least 10 more pages. :supergrin:

fredj338
06-18-2010, 00:38
I love the round, but like the 10mm, it's not a death ray, but a good service round. It hits hard like a 45acp but recoil is only slightly mor ethan a 9mm+P to me. If you handload it, it cost little more than 9mm to practice with.:supergrin:

AWESOMO 4000
06-18-2010, 01:12
One thing that I love about the .357 SIG is the inherent accuracy the round seems to have. I don't know about others, but the point and shoot feel of my 229 and that big white dot front sight is remarkable. Barely has a 4" barrel, but can hit a pop can at 50yds on the first shot nearly every time.

I don't understand the recoil concerns with this round...I have never found it to be any more than my M92 Beretta. Detractors will say it's just a hot 9mm. Well, yeah....and a .357 Magnum is just a hot .38 Special. :tongueout:

Buy ammo on line, and the price issues evaporate. Practice ammo and premium defense ammo react about the same as far as recoil. A girl friend of mine shot my 229 with no problem and preferred it to the Beretta. So if you can't handle a gun a girl can control.....that's on you.

Glolt20-91
06-18-2010, 02:00
I got a G32 a few days ago...

the 357 sig is a powerhouse, only cartridge with more measurable energy in a glock would be 10mm. which I have the G20 also. :cool:

the G32 is accurate, compact enough for comfortable IWB carry, good round count. also has the ability to shoot .40 S&W and 9mm with lonewolf conversion barrels... (9mm uses 9mm mags) , but you get 3 guns in one, more or less.

this vid kinda sold me on it, the energy is very visible by the Geysers shooting upwards and out of the cameras vision...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNZpXBfsw84

the round has great penetration too, which is why its the 2nd most popular state trooper caliber....

while it will never match a true .357 mag load, it comes very close... and you get more than 6 rounds...

here's a few links you might enjoy...

http://www.stevespages.com/page8f357sig.html
http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/9mm.357.compare.htm
http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar66.htm

For the most part, .357SIG is loaded with 9mm design bullets.

How do 9mm design bullets at near .357mag velocities match up with .357mag design bullets at velocities the .357SIG can't touch?

An observation from a test I did;

Reading previous posts, thought about the 9mm, 124gr XTP at .357SIG velocities. The 9mm/124gr XTP has a velocity design operating range from 750fps to 1200fps, yet Hornady TAP data lists the .357SIG/124gr XTP @1350fps with 16" ballistic gel penetration, but penetration velocity @1319fps;

http://www.hornadyle.com/products/mo...&sID=106&pID=1

A couple of things to note about this bullet;
<750fps traditional JHP in a bore can lead to lead core/jacket separation, with the bullet jacket remaining w/i the barrel.

.357SIG/1319fps/124gr XTP velocity numbers can be achieved by handloaders loading 9mm. . . .

Second test into plastic water bottles, bullet lead core separated/fragmented from jacket, both stopped about halfway through #3 bottle.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/38Super124XTP_513x_5991.jpg

MV ~1436fps from a Colt 1911 in .38Super, beginning N105 powder loading with WSP primers; Vihtavuori data.

Recovered lead core weight was 80grs, expansion 0.513"x0.599", avg 0.566".

It's difficult to make comparisons or predictions based upon a single test, but 124gr XTPs in the 1400s may be too fast for this design to achieve reliable terminal performance.



Now compare the above pic with this .357cal/125gr XTP at 1491fps from a Colt 1911/.38Super;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/38Super125XTP-1491fps012.jpg

In a M686/6", the 125gr XTP can be loaded well into the 1600s w/o much difficulty.

Winchester pistol brass prices at Powder Valley;

http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/index.html

Ascending, lowest bulk price to highest;

WSC38AS+U2000 38 SUPER +P BRASS - PER 2000 Yes $313.00
WSC9U2000 9MM - PER 2000 Yes $329.00
WSC357MU2000 357 MAGNUM - PER 2000 Out of stock $344.00
WSC45AU2000 45 AUTO - PER 2000 Out of stock $371.88
WSC41RMU2000 41 REMINGTON MAGNUM - PER 2000 Out of stock $400.22
WSC10MMU2000 10MM AUTO - PER 2000 Out of stock $432.54
WSC44MU2000 44 MAGNUM - PER 2000 Yes $442.00
WSC357SIGU2000 357 SIG - PER 2000 Yes $452.00

Interesting Hornady XTP price, 100 count;

HOR35710 HORNADY 38 CAL .357 125 GR HP/XTP (100) Yes $14.77
HOR35571 HORNADY 9MM .355 124 GR HP/XTP (100) Yes $15.29
HOR40000 HORNADY 10MM .400 155 GR HP/XTP (100) Yes $18.24

From a handloader's point of view, 10mm cost is more than competitive vs the .357SIG and .38Super is far less expensive, plus the Super has a greater variety of bullets to choose from.

G20 SF, AA #7 powder, Hornady #6 reference, 0.5grs under max, Lonewolf barrel
155gr/XTP - 1570fps/848fpe, ES 48Fps, SD 19fps.
First shot accuracy for the 1911/.38Super and M686 has been tested at 160 yards.

Bob :cowboy:

jeffreybehr
06-18-2010, 10:34
Glolt, the results of my expansion tests in 1-gallon waterjugs are a bit different than yours. Shot from 10' into 4 1-gallon jugs in line from my 4.5"-barreled Glock 32.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Glock%2032/357SIGexpandedbullets_1000w.jpg

Three expanded 124g. XTPs on left; 125g. Gold Dot, the 5-segment version, on right.

I've tested perhaps a dozen XTPs in 357SIG and .40S&W in waterjugs, and NOT ONE has come apart. ALL expanding bullets I've tested (except the Nosler 135g. .40s, which separated) got into but not out of the 4th jug.

LEAD
06-18-2010, 10:48
I love the .357sig cartridge I'm very comfortable with the ballistics and accuracy out of my 226 is great. I would say that I would equally trust its performance to that of a .45ACP. I prefer it to 40S&W which I also like a lot.

I have had no jacket separation using the mentioned 226 with Ranger T, Gold dot, Doubletap, and Federal HST. This include after being shot into ice wetpack and other random stuff. Ranger T was most to my liking of the bunch, but HST although not portraying text book expansion did open up and penetrate adequately.

Please take note that in my experience the DT load is a great penetrator but expansion was less than desirable.

Glolt20-91
06-18-2010, 13:05
Glolt, the results of my expansion tests in 1-gallon waterjugs are a bit different than yours. Shot from 10' into 4 1-gallon jugs in line from my 4.5"-barreled Glock 32.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Glock%2032/357SIGexpandedbullets_1000w.jpg

Three expanded 124g. XTPs on left; 125g. Gold Dot, the 5-segment version, on right.

I've tested perhaps a dozen XTPs in 357SIG and .40S&W in waterjugs, and NOT ONE has come apart. ALL expanding bullets I've tested (except the Nosler 135g. .40s, which separated) got into but not out of the 4th jug.

How's everything going up in the Valley?

I think the key here is velocity, what's the chrono MV of the 124gr XTPs? I've water bottle tested them in the past, high 1300s w/o any separation issues.

Fill up some plastic 2 liter bottles, the 124gr XTP is explosive, frequently explodes bottles just above the label rather than the bottle's cap area.

The 125gr GD is one of my favorites, good expansion and it holds together well in the low 1400s; haven't tested it mid to upper 1400s.

FWIW, just blew up a 180gr Gold Dot this morning in a water bag test, 1296fps/G20 SF with recovered bullet weight of 118.7grs. Bullets designed for .40S&W velocities can only be pushed so far before they fail, same for 9mm bullets speeding well past their design limits, IMHO.

jeffreybehr
06-18-2010, 18:06
Glolt, the velocities of the XTPs were in the 1300s; the GD factory load, IIRC, runs about 1325 at 10'.

Things in the Valley of the Sun are fine if a bit sunny and hot, but it's the desert, huh!?!?!? I've lived here 51 years and STILL don't like the heat, but it's not nearly as bad as the snows of Minnesota!

Here is a better look at a typical 124g. XTP.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Glock%2032/XTPexpanded_both_1200w.jpg


Here are 2 125g. Gold Dots.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Glock%2032/29mmGDsfrontrear_1000h.jpg
Left is the 5-segment bullet that was used in the factory ammo available at retail, while on the right is the 6-segment bullet that's loaded in the LE version, #54234.

Back to the OP's questions--I believe the GD to be the best PD bullets available to reloaders, and I believe the XTP to be an excellent PD bullet that's about a third less expensive.

I'd be happy carrying either, and I have/do.

Glolt20-91
06-18-2010, 18:48
Nice looking pics, don't think I've loaded the 5 petal design.

I loaded the 9mm/124gr Gold Dot and typically saw penetration of 1/10" hard steel plate and 1+ one gallon bottles.

The 125gr Gold Dot changed 9mm performance for whatever reason.

In this pic from a few years back, the upper 125gr GD bullet was fired from a G17, upper 1200s;
steel plate plus 4 one gallon bottles.

Lower 125gr GD, .38Super, low 1400s, steel plus 5 one gallon bottles;

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/Barrier125GoldDot9mm-38Super-230FMJ.jpg

Bob :cowboy:

gatorboy
06-18-2010, 22:43
For the most part, .357SIG is loaded with 9mm design bullets.

How do 9mm design bullets at near .357mag velocities match up with .357mag design bullets at velocities the .357SIG can't touch?

Bob :cowboy:

The exact opposite is true. The Big Three all have 125 gr. bullets for 357sig. They use 124's that expand at lower velocities with smaller meplats for 9mm. The 357sig bullets they use have a truncated profile versus the typical old schol ball profile that 9mm and 45ACP were designed around before there were hollowpoints. More damage going in and already where the 9mm HP's are after penetration before it even gets there.

I have thought about reaming a 9x19 barrel to 9x21 and using 357sig bullets to see what I could get out of them. That is the only way I can see the 1-2 rd. capacity advantage of the 9mm over the 357sig being worth it - if there was'nt a performance loss. Too many other projects, not enough time and I've been talked out of carrying reloads anyway.

texas 48
06-19-2010, 23:17
For what it's worth (not much by the way) I have compiled every ballistics table, energy statistics, measurements in expansion and penetration, etc that I could find and comapred, as best I could, the major calibers and what I found in terms of power is this..

1. 10mm
2. 45acp
3. 357sig
4. 40sw
5. 9mm

I'm stating that not to hijack or turn this into a caliber war but it's meant to be in support of those who attest to the 357sig power. I know I was surprised at the overwhelming evidence that seems to indicate that the 357sig is one awesome round!!! Although I don't fully understand the dynamic relationship between diameter of bullet and speed at which it travels, the 2 are equally important. Diameter is what makes the 45acp rock and speed is what makes a little .223 so deadly so there is proof that both are important. What's troubled me over the years is - At what point does speed begin to offset or supersede diameter? Rifles have proved that speed can be the dictating factor but at what point? Obviously I have no idea, but speed is what makes this round so awesome and I do fully believe it's more powerful than the 40sw and the 9mm.

I realize I may be wrong, but this is just my opinion based off the info I have found thus far.

I carry the Glock 10mm I have 3 of them.I have owned 9mm .45 .40 . I also have a G27 with a Glock G33 barrel. The 10's have both weight and speed and are in terms of Ballistics deliver the most energy to the target of the 4 calibers. Firing the 10mm proficiently requires much more practice than the others. The .357 sig and the 10mm flat trajectories and barrier penitration are superior to the .45 and the 9mm. Most fire the 9 for faster multiple shots. It has been my experience that 9mm +P+ is no more controlable than the .357sig. Or the .40. Most LEA use .40 .357 sig and .45 over the 9MM and for good reason. LAck of stopping power. LA NYC and very few other LEA use them because of cost not because performance and large # of LEO's in these departments are not proficient markpersons and require higher capacity of the 9mm. Most SWAT, special units use more powerful ammo. Than the 9mm.Secret Service, Delta force, Border Patrol Texas DPS come to. Mind.
I feel that next to the 10mm my choice would be the.357sig .45 them the 9mm.
With these calibers your 1st shot does no( have to be perfect. I think of it this may
I can fire mutiple shots from a .22 rifle but but it would have ti be a perfect shot to stop anything larger than a squirrel. Give me a 7.62 X 51 for an effective 1ST Shot.that was less than perfect.

chewybaca67
06-20-2010, 11:11
Love my 357 Sig. Handloads are where they really shine. And out of a 5" barrel as well. As mentioned, it's more affordable to reload than 40 S&W and 45 ACP since you can use 9mm bullets.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k298/chewybaca67/Fire%20Arms/PB040007.jpg