Is this normal - .45 Federal HST [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Is this normal - .45 Federal HST


FlyfishermanMike
06-26-2010, 19:31
I picked up a box of 50 Federal .45 ACP +P awhile ago (P45HST1) and noticed some inconsistencies in the ammo. A few of them seem to have a heavy roll crimp mid way between the cannelure and the top of the case. I've never seen this in .45 ACP. The pics will explain it better. The normal one measures at .471" and the abnormal at .464"

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4176/federalhst.jpg

The bullet on the left is the worst one of the bunch. The right bullet is how the majority of the box is.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7027/federalhstnonflash.jpg

Again, without the flash to show definition.



Normal?

BurkGlocker
06-26-2010, 19:41
Definately not normal...

I had a box once that about half of the bullets were set back about .050" of an inch into the case. I just put them in a bullet puller hammer and knocked them out and reset them to proper length. But yours, i have never seen anything like that, especially in a premium loading such as HSTs.

Burk

thegriz18
06-26-2010, 19:42
I'd send it back to Federal...

Jeff82
06-26-2010, 20:00
Yeah, that ain't right. Contact ATK.

ColCol
06-26-2010, 20:06
Two weeks ago I was shooting a box of 50 in 40 S&W HST 165 gr and one had a bad primer(no bang) and another was a squib load-felt like it had half the powder in it. I wonder if any manufacturer has a QC group anymore. I wrote them and they told me to send the box back and they would reimburse me the ammo and cost to send it. Lot of good that does if those two rounds had been in a magazine for a house gun.

167
06-26-2010, 21:26
That is why we function test the crap out of our carry ammo and buy in bulk to get it all from the same lot. Ultimately, my QC is the only QC I will trust.

FlyfishermanMike
06-26-2010, 22:15
It's a little upsetting. I've been carrying this stuff around for awhile. I bought a new mag, loaded it up and that's when I discovered the problem. You can bet from now on I'll be checking every bullet I buy for SD/HD. This stuff is hard to find and the store I bought it from is out. I'd like them to send me a new box (or two) instead of returning my money. I should probably inform the place I bought them from as well. I'll get a hold of Federal and see what they think.

I did a thorough inspection and: I initially shot 5, 11 were really bad while the remaining 34 varied from slight to almost normal. On closer inspection all had that weird ring around them to some degree. The 5 I shot fired fine and felt like +P ammo should. I should also note the box is labeled "Federal Premium Law Enforcement Ammunition." I thought the LE stuff went through an even tougher inspection??

^^ike

Glolt20-91
06-26-2010, 22:49
I'm like you, I'd be thinking more than cost reimbursement.

Kinda wonder about QA sometimes. There were two shootings here w/i a short period of time when two .45auto, 230gr Hydrashoks failed to expand w/i felons. :dunno:

Bob :cowboy:

squirrelsniper
06-26-2010, 23:03
I use HST in my 45's and my 9mm's, and I have to say that's not like anything I've ever seen in any of the ammo I've used.

glocksterr
06-27-2010, 04:53
maybe the looks of the bugger should have been a clue. as always its best to weight your carry rounds as that will virtually eliminate most squibs.



:cool:

triggerjerk
06-27-2010, 16:20
Can you post the lot number of the ammo?

Dogguy
06-27-2010, 18:35
Definitely NOT normal. Especially for Federal ammo.

Contact ATK/Federal. They need to know about this. My bet is they'll do right by you.

FlyfishermanMike
06-27-2010, 21:14
Thanks for the replies. I've contacted ATK and I'm curious to hear what they have to say. I did receive an initial response from a gatekeeper who is passing my e-mail and photos along to the appropriate people. He did say that it certainly doesn't look right. There is a possible obstacle though...

I explained where I bought the ammo and therein lies the dilemma. This is the "LE" stuff which somehow made it into the hands of a public retail location. ATK seems to be concerned that this wasn't sold from one of their authorized distributors and that I'm not "LE." I hope I don't get me favorite local gun shop in trouble! I know it's not against any law to have "LE" ammo but I guess it's against their company policy. I'm still hoping I can just get my box replaced. I'll post the results when I find them out.

Here's the lot number - LOTNOP20W678

Until I can get this worked out it looks like I'm in the market for some new HST - anyone know where I can pick some up??

^^ike

triggerjerk
06-27-2010, 21:22
Thanks for posting the lot number.

I don't know ANYONE who has .45 HST in stock besides scalpers on gunbroker.
I'd just hunt down some Ranger T for now.

Edit: I have one box with that lot number. They all appear to be ok . . .

coal
06-27-2010, 21:43
Thanks for the replies. I've contacted ATK and I'm curious to hear what they have to say. I did receive an initial response from a gatekeeper who is passing my e-mail and photos along to the appropriate people. He did say that it certainly doesn't look right. ...

... I'm still hoping I can just get my box replaced. I'll post the results when I find them out.
...

I had a 147gr 9mm HST that was defective (case folded over, would not chamber). Contacted ATK via email including photo and lot #. They said "send it in, and we'll get back with you". It was one round, I did not want to deal with ORM-D shipping because I could not get a clear answer on what I'd get out of it. Keep us posted.

JW1178
06-28-2010, 00:26
IF they won't do anything for you because you aren't "LE" and it wasn't sold through their "authorized dealer" then tell them you are going to shoot it anyways and you are keeping all documentation that you asked them about it and they didn't seem to think there was a problem. THAT will get them thinking because they know that would be good material for your attorney to use in a lawsuit against them when the ammo blows your hand off. If an old lady can get a million dollars for burning her lap with a hot coffee then surely you can too, and where you bought the ammo won't mean squat because that won't be the question the jury will have to answer. They will be negligent to say the least. I am becoming more of a winchester fan every day.

cowboy1964
06-28-2010, 06:14
IF they won't do anything for you because you aren't "LE" and it wasn't sold through their "authorized dealer" then tell them you are going to shoot it anyways and you are keeping all documentation that you asked them about it and they didn't seem to think there was a problem.

Did I miss the part about ATK saying the ammo was ok?

FlyfishermanMike
06-28-2010, 16:00
Fortunately the whole "authorized dealer" thing didn't matter. I recieved a reply today.

"Thank you for your email. We would like to apologize for the problem you experienced with our product. This is not typical of our quality standards, and we appreciate you letting us know about your experience.

Please dispose of the problematic ammunition. We will be sending replacement ammunition.

Again, thank you for bringing this to our attention."

That's pretty much what I wanted. An explanation of the defect would have been nice though. I thought they'd want me to send it in but I'm glad I don't have to. That just makes me believe they've already seen this problem. At least I can pull the bullets and have some pretty HST's to reload.

^^ike

triggerjerk
06-28-2010, 17:01
Nice.

ColCol
06-28-2010, 17:32
This kind of thing really hacks me off. Major manufacturers charge an arm and a leg for premium ammo and premium prices and then you get every thing from a dud primer and a squib load(in my case) or physically obvious blunders such as this. There's just no excuse for the poor quality that keeps pouring out of places that should have better control over their products that could save a life or end it due to the quality of their ammo. Unfortunately, Federal is not alone and for sure doesn't corner the market on this ongoing problem. It seems to keep cropping up with more frequency lately.

LoadedTech
06-28-2010, 20:22
That's why I like my own. If they're F-ed up, its my fault, they have fired and fed perfectly.

FlyfishermanMike
06-28-2010, 20:53
That's why I like my own. If they're F-ed up, its my fault, they have fired and fed perfectly.

I wasn't going to attempt it before but I'm strongly considering working up some defensive loads now.

glocksterr
06-29-2010, 06:28
That's why I like my own. If they're F-ed up, its my fault, they have fired and fed perfectly.

so your handloading HST's?

PghJim
06-30-2010, 19:05
I have only had two squib loads in over twenty years and they both were recent and they both were Federal. The first was a Hydra shok 45 ACP and the second was a 155gr 40 S&W HST. The second one was shot over the chronograph and registered 220fps. The slide failed to function in both cases.

FlyfishermanMike
07-01-2010, 20:58
Since they let me keep the ammo I went ahead a pulled a few today. I'll post some picture later but this is what I found. Both the bullet and case have a cannelure (the corrugated appearance). On the bullet the cannelure was right where the strange rings was. Also the bullet was set exactly to the depth of the cannelure on the case. Very interesting.

PrecisionRifleman
04-21-2011, 15:48
That is why we function test the crap out of our carry ammo and buy in bulk to get it all from the same lot. Ultimately, my QC is the only QC I will trust.

Another valid reason for loading my own rounds.:supergrin: