Long Range RimFire Precision [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Long Range RimFire Precision


jaisan
07-03-2010, 05:04
Hi Guys,

This is Johnny Garcia aka Jaisan- have been wanting to do Tactical Precision Rimfire ala 6mm club and SoCal. I have Glocks and have been a user of glocks for years and am a fan of this forum, but I also shoot rimfire long distance (25- 200 meters). Have watched rimfire threads in other forums and hoped and prayed we would all be able to do so (it's cheap kasi eh!). Well myself and a friend (Sonny Marin) have started to write the rules and regulations with the help of PPSA Anton Lorenzo which will be presented to the PPSA board for approval and it's full support in getting us organized and permits to transfer with FED.
In the Bolo Cup will be there at the 75 meter range with a fun shoot with Armscor 22 rifles - have talked to Bob Sajot and si Major Tulaio and have their full support. We will try to hold weekly practice matches with at least one full match a month at the Armscor range (from 25 to 100 meters (Bob has figured a way to give us a hundred meter range (thanks Bob)). Will probably hold the first match after the gun show this July. In the meantime we will try to hold weekly fun matches 25 -50 rounds 25 - 50-75 meter matches in Armscor PTR permitting with the big competition slated for Dec at the Splendido Taal range wherein we will have short range, medium Range, and Long range matches.

A primer on Long Range Rimfire Precision (LRRP) is as follows:

"LONG RANGE RIMFIRE PRECISION RIFLE COMPETITIONS

The 1st Edition Long Range Rimfire Precision Rifle Competition Rulebook is currently being reviewed and finalized by the Philippine Practical Shooting Association (PPSA) and the National Range Officers’ Institute (NROI). Pending its official release, the following general guidelines for the conduct of LRRP Rifle matches are being disseminated for the information of those intending to experience the new riflesport discipline.


Long Range Rimfire Precision Rifle Competitions (LRRP Rifle Competitions) are open to all single action, manual action (bolt action, lever action or pump) or semi-automatic rifles chambered for the .22 long rifle cartridge. Rifles chambered for the .22 rimfire magnum or .17 rimfires will not be allowed - but with enough interest, the PPSA Board may consider the use of rifles chambered for these cartridges in subsequent matches.

Competitions will consist of shootings strings or courses of fire requiring no more than five rounds to complete with a par time of one minute. A combination of paper, frangible and reactive targets at distances of anywhere from 25 to 200 meters and farther will be used as target sets, with the shooter landing the most number of hits on target being declared as the match winner. To be competitive, rifles must be able to shoot a one-inch group or less at fifty meters - roughly the equivalent of a 2 MOA accuracy. Because of the distances involved, the use of a riflescope will be a necessity.

At present and until further notice, all shooters will be competing in a single Open Division. However, the LRRP Rifle Rulebook as proposed eventually calls for classifying rifles into different divisions, e.g., Light Rifles weighing less than 8.5 pounds, Medium Rifles weighing more than 8.5 pound but less than 11.5 pounds and Heavy Rifles weighing more than 11.5 pounds. The top three shooters in each rifle division will be declared as match winners.

All shooters competing in a LRRP rifle match will be awarded Certificates of Recognition which will provide their corresponding shooter classification for that particular match. The LRRP rifleman classification and the corresponding match scores needed to achieve the same as a percentage of total possible score are as follows:

Master Rifleman - 91.0% - 100.0%
Expert Rifleman - 81.0% - 90.0%
Sharpshooter - 51.0% - 80.0%
Marksman - 36.0% - 50.0%
Basic Rifleman - 5.0% - 35.0%

Unless otherwise indicated in the course of fire, targets may be engaged by the competitor in a freestyle manner. Shooting mats or ground cloths that do not provide undue advantage are allowed as some of the targets will be engaged from a prone shooting position. Simple shooting slings, bipods, backpacks, rucksacks or sandbags may be used as an aid in shooting, along with elbow pads and knee pads unless prohibited in the course of fire. However, specially shooting jackets and shooting gloves that provide artificial support to the rifle while shooting will not be allowed, and so with palm rests, butt rests and butt hooks. Adjustable butts must be centered and adjustable cheek pieces fixed and taped in place.

LRRP rifle competitions will use the same rimfire tactical precision targets that may be found and downloaded from www.6mmbr.com and www.snipershide.com.

Additional information and updates regarding the sport of long range rimfire precision rifle competition will be posted at www.ppsa.org.ph."

If you guys want to join us or shoot or be emailed as to when we will have competitions and what courses are: just pm or email me - will setup a separate email for this or go to PTRA which we will transform to LRRP - but we will hit all forums to try to keep everyone updated. I will be at the Bolo Cup on Sunday together with my partner Sonny Marin to answer all and any questions - we welcome everyone to join in at this point in time.

Also we will be working with Armscor courtesy of Bob and George Chua to produce a 22 rifle suitable for this sport (ie. heavy barrel, magazine feed, 5 round magazine, Silouhette type stock, capable of sub moa at 100 (will try - mukhang kaya) at a decent price).

For those of you who want to shoot, who want to learn rifle marksmanship (as we also will be learning together), want to have fun, want to bring their children- join us and hopefully we can make this a fun, fair, and legitimate discipline...

regards to all

Jaisan :wavey:

Wp.22
07-03-2010, 05:13
Kailangan ba member ng ppsa to join

Allegra
07-03-2010, 05:21
uy , I'm interested :) mahigpit din ba ptt ng 22's?

darth board
07-03-2010, 07:37
sana meron ding 22 pistol competition.

jaisan
07-03-2010, 09:36
Initially it will be open to all to join... a lot of the courses will be channeled through PPSA gun clubs - but there will eventually be a website wherein people can download courses and targets to practice... eventually though either the shooters will be members of PPSA clubs or possibly a new organization being put up called the national riflesports association of the Philippines...
As of now most anyone can join the matches.

As for the ptt for 22 rifles - we have to talk to fed and explain na 22 ito. We will know better by next week hopefully- will keep you guys informed.

In terms of competition - will focus first on 22 tactical rimfire, then action rimfire - we intend to include pistols in the future and make it like a two gun match or some solo pistol matches. When - depends on the participation and volunteers to help form the matches....

Allegra
07-03-2010, 18:38
tactical 22 rimfire? any videos ? :)

randr1979
07-03-2010, 20:22
finally!

Taurus
07-04-2010, 23:06
This is welcome news.

Please do post practice/match schedules. I will definitely attend if time will permit.

Question lang: Isn't 200 meters too ambitious for a 22 lr round?

Anyway, kudos to Jaisan for spearheading this.

jaisan
07-04-2010, 23:25
Hi Allegra:
Try this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTgjtn625zo

For info try this
www.6mmbr.com/rimfiretactical.html
and Sniper Hide rimfire section.

Taurus:
we have shot at 200- taught my friend and my son in one session to do so; weapons used were: Marlin bolt gun with bushnell scope, CZ 453 Varminter with China Scope, a Ruger 1022 with China scope and my Remington 37 bolt gun with nikon scope. 5 out of 10 were hits at a 10 inch plate as the wind was blowing and our bullets were drifting as much as a foot and a half. Have the pictures at the following link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/garciajg/sets/72157

In the US they shoot at 300 by sighting in their rifle at 35 yards 13.5 inches high which will make you "close at 300 yards"..

It seems crazy pards but kaya.... and we are willing to share what little knowledge we have.


Randdr1979...
Thanks..
We are just waiting for clarifications regarding the PTT's but we are headed for informal competitions on weekends (Saturday's) in Armscor with monthly matches (Bob Sajot and Major Tuliao have so kindly advised us that they can rig up a 100 meter range for us in the Marikina range). The rules and regulations are now with PPSA for approval and they too will assist us with the PTT's - so we are trying to get the critical mass here.

In the Bolo Cup competition we had the 75 meter range with a fun shoot with rifles provided from Armscor. Bob's gun (armscor bolt) was doing cloverleafs at 50 with their sub sonic bullets. We shot paper targets, ballons, metal targets, and Sonny Marin brought over golf balls at the 75 mark. We had kids as young as 8 and 11 (with their parents of course) and we had adults looking like kids shooting to their hearts delight. We meet a lot of nice people interested in the sport including one from PPS Taiwan.... Everyone trying to share ideas and theories as how to sight, shoot, and basically have fun the inexpensive way. Some guys bought 200 rounds per head....
It was exhausting on our part (Sonny, moi, and the NROI fellow (Bing)) but we enjoyed it.

Looking forward to more shooting hours at Armscor - then Splendido in December (25 meters to 200-300 meters)..

Rimfire to it's extremes... hope we can do it.

thanks all..:wavey:

stinger030
07-05-2010, 00:02
Jaisan,

I think the guy's name from PPS Taiwan is Donald. He really enjoyed shooting the 22lr and tried all three house guns that were provided by Armscor. He fell in love with Bob's bull barrell rifle.

Jojo

pipo
07-05-2010, 00:17
This is welcome news.

Please do post practice/match schedules. I will definitely attend if time will permit.

Question lang: Isn't 200 meters too ambitious for a 22 lr round?

Anyway, kudos to Jaisan for spearheading this.

Sir Taurus if you follow the airgunning forums you will see that our very own guys using locally made pcp rifles compete BR100 with ram targets a little more than a small matchbox in size. Some others claim 180 yrds shoot hitting bottes.... yes also with airguns. So i think 200 meters for a 22 lr (with good quality ammo) is very much achievable. Thats why Im also interested. he he he

Putok-Glock
07-05-2010, 00:53
...our very own guys using locally made pcp rifles...

pcp as in pre-charged pneumatic? Bro saan at sino gumagawa nito sa atin?

Thanks and sorry for the ot...

jaisan
07-05-2010, 01:48
Hi Stinger030,

pards, not only Donald fell in love with that single shot varminter - it was doing cloverleafs at 50 meters - I fell in love with it too.
Working with Bob Sajot in trying to produce one with a 5 round magazine and other slight changes - like opening up the reciever ... hopefully the gun with a bull barrel, five shot mag, etc. will come out only to 15 - 20 thou... have already signed up with them to get one and then modify it until properly tuned and then they will see if they can produce it as is. Looking at opening up the receiver, changing main screws to allen type to facilitate torquing, creating some simple pillar bedding, free floating the barrel, and perhaps the most difficult - will see if we can make the trigger adjustable (wish - sigh, sigh...) will be needing the inputs of everyone on this one. Would love to shorten the movement of the bolt - but i don't think that is possible in terms of all the jigs and patterns one would have to change :dunno:. If I get it will have it with me at the amrscor range for people to try out and give their opinion... (will try - no promise):wow:
Am excited... but may have to wait til after the gunshow. :crying:

Wp.22
07-05-2010, 04:54
I have a marlin model 25n bolt action pwede na ba yun

pipo
07-05-2010, 05:05
pcp as in pre-charged pneumatic? Bro saan at sino gumagawa nito sa atin?

Thanks and sorry for the ot...


yes bro. We have actually 4 makers. 1. ARMSCOR, 2. JBC 3. FILARMS (now closed) and 4. MARIO MULI... We also have makers down south but they are rather rare pa.

jaisan
07-05-2010, 05:26
Hi Pipo,

Thanks for the info - galing pala ng air gun.:supergrin:

Hi Wp.22,

Yes that will do - my friend Sonny and his barkada use marlin bolt guns some tube feed, some mag fed.. and Sonny is hitting and scoring all the way up to 150 meters with a gong at 200... pwede yan! :thumbsup:

Wp.22
07-05-2010, 05:52
Hi Pipo,

Thanks for the info - galing pala ng air gun.:supergrin:

Hi Wp.22,

Yes that will do - my friend Sonny and his barkada use marlin bolt guns some tube feed, some mag fed.. and Sonny is hitting and scoring all the way up to 150 meters with a gong at 200... pwede yan! :thumbsup:

i guess i just need a good bipod and scope

Putok-Glock
07-05-2010, 06:33
How about single shot .22 rifles? Guess its more consistent in accuracy than a bolt but disadvantaged ba?

jaisan
07-06-2010, 05:22
Hi Wp.22,

For the bipod - I use the bad boyz made in China swivel bipod - just put a dab of superglue or expoy on the lock nut and it has turned out to be very very good. Mura pa compared to the original Harris.

For Scopes recommend mildot reticles if using chinese scope go for the largest opening like the 50 mm - variable 4-15 is enough. If you can get a good scope get it mahal but they last..

Putok-Glock
Yes single shots do compete - may extended time sila but you have to develop a technique and have to be precise (no mistakes) to do 5 shots within one minute par. A magazine feed bolt is the preferred, but shoot what you have - just shoot and enjoy.

Best to all...

jaisan

jaisan
07-06-2010, 05:42
The rifle m1400TS that was used was the personal property of Bob Sajot. It was sighted in by him and then the picture shows the grouping at 50 meters using Armscor subsonic. :supergrin:
The other picture is the gun with me. It is essentially a bull barrel, single shot bolt gun with a sihoulette target type stock. The gun was bought originally at a ridiculous price of 12,ooo petots. :faint:
This is what hopefully i can improve further. :dunno:

edtf
07-06-2010, 05:43
Very interesting!!!! I bought the cheapest ARMSCOR bolt gun matigas nga the trigger I wish they could fix that nga. Please keep us posted I might end up getting that comp rifle if it is below 20k

Wp.22
07-06-2010, 09:02
I know someone selling his anchuzt

bro jaisan you have pics of your bipod

productionguy
07-06-2010, 09:52
wow,may pag gagamitan na din ako ng remington tube mag rifle ko,pamana pa ni lolo sa akin...

pipo
07-06-2010, 18:25
I know someone selling his anchuzt

bro just curious. Magkano naman kaya ang mga ganun? may pic ba?

adenine
07-06-2010, 18:59
wow this is great! at last magkakaron na pala, 22 rimfire! i personally tried 25-100 meter distances, but 200 would be interesting! pa update din bro jaisan!

Wp.22
07-06-2010, 19:20
bro just curious. Magkano naman kaya ang mga ganun? may pic ba?

Ill ask him also the model number super fresh

jaisan
07-06-2010, 22:08
Bro wp22,
Give me a day or so pagbalik sa bahay will take pictures - ala harris swivel bipod - am using two of the china bipods on two rifles - so far so good.

Bro edtf
Will keep you informed, right now am researching on straight barrels and tightening the bolt to receiver tolerances para walang binding.
So far they told me puwede i-hone yung trigger, but will hopefully be talking to Ver Palo former Armscor gunsmith to see if we can tap in some extra screws in the right places to control the pull, etc..
Will keep you guys informed wether we succeed or end up wrecking the thing.

Allegra
07-06-2010, 22:19
mga rice producing provinces pwede rin mag pa varmint hunting competition
Daming daga dun , plus theyir delicious :)

edtf
07-06-2010, 22:41
Bro wp22,
Give me a day or so pagbalik sa bahay will take pictures - ala harris swivel bipod - am using two of the china bipods on two rifles - so far so good.

Bro edtf
Will keep you informed, right now am researching on straight barrels and tightening the bolt to receiver tolerances para walang binding.
So far they told me puwede i-hone yung trigger, but will hopefully be talking to Ver Palo former Armscor gunsmith to see if we can tap in some extra screws in the right places to control the pull, etc..
Will keep you guys informed wether we succeed or end up wrecking the thing.

yup willie told me that I can hone the sear engagement area and I did a bit - don't want to over do it for safety reasons. Improved drastically but still not that smooth.
I think this is a really good endeavor. This is a really good way to introduce people to the shooting sports. My kids aged 11 and 7 love shooting the .22 in the farm - we shoot at 75m and can constantly hit the target :). In fact some of my friends get so pressured with what the kids could do - hehehehe

I wish you luck and more perseverance on this

jaisan
07-06-2010, 22:54
Wow Allegra - that sounds interesting - our version of gophers

edtf - Hope we succeed - am getting also responses from the older shooters High Power rifle afficionados who want to join and are willing to share their knowledge which is good.
Am also collecting articles on how to shoot in the different positions complete with illustrations. Idea is to provide as much information to the shooters for free.. once logo is approved can lodge it in a specific website for people to download.

edtf
07-06-2010, 22:55
mga rice producing provinces pwede rin mag pa varmint hunting competition
Daming daga dun , plus theyir delicious :)

Matagal ko ng gusto gawin ito!! Pinoy style of prairie dog hunting.
Just imagine the service you will be doing for the farmers. Have a group of 3-4 guys 100 rounds ea. - Puwede kaya ito sa side niyo fafa?

jaisan
07-06-2010, 23:03
Sounds very interesting....basta pest control...

Putok-Glock
07-07-2010, 01:29
Prob. may existing ban ang DENR sa hunting ngayon, at wala sa vocabulary natn ang pest control via shooting them pests kahit w/ airgun, otherwise endangered specie na mga abusadong politi%#! ngayon hehe, wawa naman!

Allegra
07-07-2010, 01:41
Matagal ko ng gusto gawin ito!! Pinoy style of prairie dog hunting.
Just imagine the service you will be doing for the farmers. Have a group of 3-4 guys 100 rounds ea. - Puwede kaya ito sa side niyo fafa?



I'm not sure dapat malawak dry bukid
I've only seen this dun sa nueva ecija nuon pa on a college field trip
We students were armed w/ sticks and a bulldozer used a ripper to make the rats underneath come to the surface
We didnt get to kill any , kasi we ran away haha kasing laki ng askal yung lumabas , at may daan libo siguro
Di ka magugutom dun , rice toppings galore
Dapat siguro you shoot the rats from a raised platform so you dont hit someone's carabao

Allegra
07-07-2010, 01:48
Prob. may existing ban ang DENR sa hunting ngayon, at wala sa vocabulary natn ang pest control via shooting them pests kahit w/ airgun, otherwise endangered specie na mga abusadong politi%#! ngayon hehe, wawa naman!


I dont think the DENR would mind rat hunting, di naman siya endangered
I'm against hunting din dito satin kasi walang restrictions sa
mga migrating ducks, monkeys, eagles, ....mga poor...
Endangered ba ang poor , bilis nun dumami a

Kaiser Soze
07-07-2010, 02:43
I dont think the DENR would mind rat hunting, di naman siya endangered
I'm against hunting din dito satin kasi walang restrictions sa
mga migrating ducks, monkeys, eagles, ....mga poor...
Endangered ba ang poor , bilis nun dumami a

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

Allegra, you made my day with that post!

I'm also against hunting locally, like you said, no clear restrictions regarding what is allowed to be shot, and what is not. I see a lot of local "hunters" come down from their grounds with an assortment of shot animals, some native, some migratory, and some of them even shot some privately owned animals (usually young fighting cocks/hens that are allowed to wander free range) by mistake and took the carcass to remove evidence.

I AM for the culling of certain pest animals such as SQUIRRELS WHO WEREN'T NATIVE TO THE PHILIPPINES IN THE FIRST PLACE! My neighbor's family dog had to be put down because of rabies spread by a squirrel some genius bought in Cartimar and released in our subdivision! It breeds rapidly and messes up garbage, gets into houses, makes holes in roofs, etc.

I would be amenable to legalization of hunting here if:

a. There would be fees to be allowed to hunt (could be used to re-stock the game, or for the benefit of endagered flora and fauna)

b. There would be penalties for shooting the wrong animals

c. There would be hunting seasons to allow them to recover in number...unless peste talaga, in that case, KILL 'EM ALL!:50cal:

edtf
07-07-2010, 03:51
BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

Allegra, you made my day with that post!

I'm also against hunting locally, like you said, no clear restrictions regarding what is allowed to be shot, and what is not. I see a lot of local "hunters" come down from their grounds with an assortment of shot animals, some native, some migratory, and some of them even shot some privately owned animals (usually young fighting cocks/hens that are allowed to wander free range) by mistake and took the carcass to remove evidence.

I AM for the culling of certain pest animals such as SQUIRRELS WHO WEREN'T NATIVE TO THE PHILIPPINES IN THE FIRST PLACE! My neighbor's family dog had to be put down because of rabies spread by a squirrel some genius bought in Cartimar and released in our subdivision! It breeds rapidly and messes up garbage, gets into houses, makes holes in roofs, etc.

I would be amenable to legalization of hunting here if:

a. There would be fees to be allowed to hunt (could be used to re-stock the game, or for the benefit of endagered flora and fauna)

b. There would be penalties for shooting the wrong animals

c. There would be hunting seasons to allow them to recover in number...unless peste talaga, in that case, KILL 'EM ALL!:50cal:

Bro KS, The only place I know where there are squirrels are in Dasma - pati peste sa makati sosyal :supergrin:. From what I heard most arrived with the stuff of expats - they are really like rats :( - and they are pretty dangerous too.

I'm sure a lot of people would be happy that we shoot a couple of rats - the real one and not the politicos :supergrin:

Fafa A, Grabe nga ang infestation ng daga raw sa mga rice producing areas :( and they aren't afraid of people anymore. :(

Putok-Glock
07-07-2010, 16:25
I dont think the DENR would mind rat hunting, di naman siya endangered
I'm against hunting din dito satin kasi walang restrictions sa
mga migrating ducks, monkeys, eagles, ....mga poor...
Endangered ba ang poor , bilis nun dumami a

afaik its a total ban. I still remember some time ago, the local DENR here sent a letter to our club informing us of it. I am an avid hunter w/ airguns, rimfire and shotgun, its why I was directly affected and would not forget it...

PMMA97
07-07-2010, 17:18
Squirrel infestation....sosyal.

May skunk ba sa Cartimar?

Allegra
07-07-2010, 18:14
afaik its a total ban. I still remember some time ago, the local DENR here sent a letter to our club informing us of it. I am an avid hunter w/ airguns, rimfire and shotgun, its why I was directly affected and would not forget it...

Maganda na nga siguro total ban just so mga pilosopo wala na talagang rason to shoot our endangered animals
Kaso, does that mean the farmers are also banned from killing rats sa palayan?
What would be hunting? use of gun? traps?
Kasi if they allow trapping ng daga , then that would allow "patunkab" for the baboy damo
Parang mahirap enforce yan

I'm not against hunting ha , I would probably love it
Kaso ubos na mga hayop dito satin

Kaiser Soze
07-07-2010, 19:08
Squirrel infestation....sosyal.

May skunk ba sa Cartimar?

No skunks, but I was there recently, confirmed, may squirrels nga, both the "red" and "black" tree squirrels, both from China according to the store owner. Yech. These things don't have natural predators here, and although a cat can take one down, it's usually not worth the effort on their part, as these tree-rats grow pretty big.

@Allegra - weren't some guys with airguns allowed to shoot at NAIA before because of that scare (birds getting sucked into airplane engines) before, or urban legend lang yun?

Putok-Glock
07-07-2010, 22:08
I'm not against hunting ha , I would probably love it
Kaso ubos na mga hayop dito satin

bro just to correct a long time mis-impression, its not hunting per se that depletes our wildlife, its the distruction of their natural habitat thru illegal logging. Hunters can only shoot so much considering the mode of hunting we had here compared to logging hundreds of hectares in a very short time span when the wildlife can never cope...so Inspite of the total ban on hunting for years now, our wildlife continue to deteriorate. Proof that the DENR is barking on the wrong tree, intentionally or not...:whistling:

This has been proven in countries where hunting is allowed and regulated like in US, Europe, etc...

Putok-Glock
07-08-2010, 19:34
Think the above should read INDISCRIMINATE logging, legal or otherwise...more apt

choi_tan2000
07-09-2010, 06:18
agree it is the illegal logging that's why nauubos ang mga animals natin.

but still a regulated hunting is better than a ban in hunting kasi dami palusot ng mga pinoy eh.

Allegra
07-09-2010, 06:42
Kumikita kasi sila sa logging , sa hunters walang maglalagay
Still, native monkeys were seen here in uplb finally after they've disappeared years ago
I really would hate it if some stupid sob w/ gun shoots these protected animals, kasi protected forest reserve ang makiling

I'm not against hunting
I've tried it , kahit i didnt hit a single thing , it was addicting pa rin
Sana lang well regulated

choi_tan2000
07-09-2010, 07:01
Kumikita kasi sila sa logging , sa hunters walang maglalagay
Still, native monkeys were seen here in uplb finally after they've disappeared years ago
I really would hate it if some stupid sob w/ gun shoots these protected animals, kasi protected forest reserve ang makiling

I'm not against hunting
I've tried it , kahit i didnt hit a single thing , it was addicting pa rin
Sana lang well regulated


tama ka bro dapat talaga well regulated, me balita ako dyan sa LB dami pa namumundok to hunt not sure lag kung makiling un sinasabi nila. i hope its not

choi_tan2000
07-09-2010, 07:04
btw fafa A,

to go back sa originaltoic yun range namin sa sta cruz, i think can accommodate up to 150 yards just for 22lr or airgun ha. we can arrange it kay obet t host a rimfire or airgun shoot for sure Gov ER will support this.

Allegra
07-09-2010, 07:29
btw fafa A,

to go back sa originaltoic yun range namin sa sta cruz, i think can accommodate up to 150 yards just for 22lr or airgun ha. we can arrange it kay obet t host a rimfire or airgun shoot for sure Gov ER will support this.

Shooter ba si Gov?

Mukng maganda nga ito
Di mainit sa mata ni Chief PNP
I wouldnt have guessed 22s could reach that far

I want a bolt action :)

Putok-Glock
07-09-2010, 08:29
for me mas enjoy ang .22 ksa action shooting ng pistol. Ibang high eto...

jaisan
07-10-2010, 05:28
Anyone need a course of fire, targets, and basic rules for sta. cruz.... problema na lang yung ptt..

choi_tan2000
07-11-2010, 04:02
Shooter ba si Gov?

Mukng maganda nga ito
Di mainit sa mata ni Chief PNP
I wouldnt have guessed 22s could reach that far

I want a bolt action :)

the best ang bolt action fr this purpose bro, actualy i just tried my conversion kit for ar15 and it shoots good. laluna siguro ang 22 lr na barrel at bolt action br0.

bro i think gov is not a shooter but heard that he is supporting the sports in fact niluluto na ang gov e.r. cup level III

Putok-Glock
07-11-2010, 07:09
If I could find a semi auto thats as accurate as a bolt action and w/ a crisp trigger as a bolt's, I'd prefer the semi.

The remington 597 is a strong candidate but its crisp trigger pull is too heavy that it put to waste its accuracy.

The ak-22 from armscor while accurate, its trigger is mushy as a glock.

choi_tan2000
07-11-2010, 07:33
If I could find a semi auto thats as accurate as a bolt action and w/ a crisp trigger as a bolt's, I'd prefer the semi.

The remington 597 is a strong candidate but its crisp trigger pull is too heavy that it put to waste its accuracy.

The ak-22 from armscor while accurate, its trigger is mushy as a glock.


how about the marlins sir PG

Putok-Glock
07-11-2010, 22:33
how about the marlins sir PG

mushy triggers din. ditto w/ winchester semis. but take note that these rifles use the old technology they had 50+ yrs ago. Maybe if they will have new trigger designs they can rival those in the bolt guns.

Wp.22
07-12-2010, 00:29
I once tried a bolt action with set trigger shoots great

edtf
07-29-2010, 19:37
Bro Jaisan, Any news on this. I was playing around with my .22 at the farm - SARAP talaga ng .22 rifle :D

jaisan
08-02-2010, 06:08
Hi guys,
Just waiting for PPSA board to approve the first set of rules hopefully this month. In the meantime have talked to Bob Sajot of Armscor - preparing for possible small competition sometime Sept. Will get there - keep the faith...:supergrin:

edtf
08-02-2010, 08:45
Bro Jaisan, One question: can a suppressed .22 bolt be used?

jaisan
08-02-2010, 23:19
yup, i believe so. You may suffer at the longer distances though depending on how your suppressor is constructed. You may(emphasis on the may) bleed off too much velocity and your scope may run out of clicks for the 200 meters and above meters, but on the short and medium courses you should have no problems(which will be majority of the competitions). As a matter of fact had a friend who used a suppressed 1022 on a shiloutte (cannot seem to spell this right) type game and won!:shocked:

edtf
08-03-2010, 00:07
yup, i believe so. You may suffer at the longer distances though depending on how your suppressor is constructed. You may(emphasis on the may) bleed off too much velocity and your scope may run out of clicks for the 200 meters and above meters, but on the short and medium courses you should have no problems(which will be majority of the competitions). As a matter of fact had a friend who used a suppressed 1022 on a shiloutte (cannot seem to spell this right) type game and won!:shocked:

oh yeah I noticed a big drop from 15m to around 75m hmmm... ok lang yan :supergrin: I'm excited na for this :) been shooting at around 75m and hitting a 6"x6" plate constantly.
I just polished the trigger of my el cheapo armscor bolt (cost me less than 10k brand new) and it made a world of difference. These rifles are sooooo under estimated
Speaking of ARMSCOR rifles how is the bolt armscor target rifle coming along?

Bro, where do you shoot? This might be even better than joining those rifle comps :supergrin:

jaisan
08-03-2010, 00:30
Armscor rifle is moving along. Have requested the following and it is being done so far:
1. Bull barrel for steadier and heavier feel:faint:
2. larger ejection port openning to be able to see chambering without moving too much and easier to clear jams and clean rifle chamber area.
3. Bolt to receiver match to prevent wobbling and binding for faster and smoother bolt cycling action - plus had bolt handle curved to give more clearance for scope. 5 round magazine
4. Stock to be ala anschutz fortner stock without adjustable cheekpiece and one piece action bolt
5. Trigger set to 2- 2.5 pounds - all this hopefully for 15k.
Once I get the rifle will further tune with rubber beddings and see if anything else needs changing. Phase two - will try to make an adjustable trigger (ambition):dunno:
I shoot at the Marines, PNSA, Splendido and Armscor. Maybe we can do a practice or Test Match at Armscor- i can bring targets and set course. - anyone game? Either August or Sept. Sunday or Sat. kanya kanyang entrance sa Armscor..:supergrin: am willing... ok kung mga ten tayo maski five.

jaisan
08-03-2010, 00:49
Usually what one needs is a good decent barrel, scope, and a good trigger.
Having good trigger makes a world of difference. Polishing your trigger getting crisp and smooth - not necessarily light makes a decent preforming rifle into a good shooter... try putting rubber strips near the action screws so that you can torque your rifle para maganda yung harmonics.:upeyes:
The 22 is a forgiving rifle in terms of bedding compared to high power rifles which need strong bedding and tightly torqued screws which have to take a pounding everytime they are fired. I have had very good success with the rubber strips with my rugger1022 and my bolt rifles.:supergrin:

jimbullet
08-03-2010, 02:38
Anchutz 22s, the walthers or the Feinwerkbaus have good triggers, those used by olympians.

edtf
08-03-2010, 04:02
Anchutz 22s, the walthers or the Feinwerkbaus have good triggers, those used by olympians.

too expensive :supergrin:

Jaisan
I'm game for a Sat at Armscor :) What do you mean rubber strips near the action screws?? Where is that?

Wp.22
08-03-2010, 04:23
too expensive :supergrin:

Jaisan
I'm game for a Sat at Armscor :) What do you mean rubber strips near the action screws?? Where is that?

what time i might go there i still dont have my ptt for my 22

edtf
08-03-2010, 04:34
what time i might go there i still dont have my ptt for my 22

oh yeah! I forget about the PTT :crying:

randr1979
08-03-2010, 04:40
you might be surprised how accurate and crisp a trigger is on an inexpensive marlin model 60

jaisan
08-03-2010, 04:45
edtf Sat morning or afternoon.
On the rubber strips - i get rubber from the interior of the bikes and put it over the stock in certain areas beween the wood and the metal - the areas are:
1. on the barrel - small piece only about an inch either near the receiver to make it float or if it is a Target ruger at the tip.
2. on top of the main screws that screw the rifle to the stock. I cut about an inch and put a hole for the screw to go through - usually only the front screw, that is enough - then i slowly just tighten the screw - not over tighten - just enough. If your bolt gun has two screws you have to tighten them such that the bolt can move freely - a lot of other rifles specially high power as you tighten you bend the reciever slightly and the bolt binds and your receiver is stressed - what you want is to tighten evenly on the two screws and the rubber allows you to do this without imbedding the rifle too much into the wood. Net effect if done properly with the 22 is that you seat the rifle securely into the stock dampening the vibrations and improving the harmonics of the rifle.

jaisan
08-03-2010, 04:48
I have a whole group that shoots Marlins - their pretty good and not that expensive.
On the PTT's will talk to Bob Sajot - so for those members of the Armscor gun club maybe h can help arrange it. If not an Armscor member - then you will have to go to your gun clubs and request. Will also talk to PPSA to see if they can help...

Putok-Glock
08-03-2010, 06:32
then i slowly just tighten the screw - not over tighten - just enough. If your bolt gun has two screws you have to tighten them such that the bolt can move freely - a lot of other rifles specially high power as you tighten you bend the reciever slightly and the bolt binds and your receiver is stressed - what you want is to tighten evenly on the two screws and the rubber allows you to do this without imbedding the rifle too much into the wood. Net effect if done properly with the 22 is that you seat the rifle securely into the stock dampening the vibrations and improving the harmonics of the rifle.

i suggest to use a torque wrench to be precise and repeatable by taking note of the readings in the wrench

jaisan
08-03-2010, 06:58
a torque driver would help tremendously - but they are not cheap!!! and a bit hard to find. For the 10 22 torque to 19 -22 torque low fire a few shots then increase by .5 lbs/inch until you come to a nice group - each has their own formula and system... whatever works...:wow:

Allegra
08-03-2010, 08:55
Armscor rifle is moving along. Have requested the following and it is being done so far:
1. Bull barrel for steadier and heavier feel:faint:
2. larger ejection port openning to be able to see chambering without moving too much and easier to clear jams and clean rifle chamber area.
3. Bolt to receiver match to prevent wobbling and binding for faster and smoother bolt cycling action - plus had bolt handle curved to give more clearance for scope. 5 round magazine
4. Stock to be ala anschutz fortner stock without adjustable cheekpiece and one piece action bolt
5. Trigger set to 2- 2.5 pounds - all this hopefully for 15k.
Once I get the rifle will further tune with rubber beddings and see if anything else needs changing. Phase two - will try to make an adjustable trigger (ambition):dunno:
I shoot at the Marines, PNSA, Splendido and Armscor. Maybe we can do a practice or Test Match at Armscor- i can bring targets and set course. - anyone game? Either August or Sept. Sunday or Sat. kanya kanyang entrance sa Armscor..:supergrin: am willing... ok kung mga ten tayo maski five.

I'd get one
Yan pala aantayin ko
Sana synthetic stock

Eye Cutter
08-03-2010, 10:04
this is interesting.... mark the spark, new project!

Putok-Glock
08-03-2010, 17:34
a torque driver would help tremendously - but they are not cheap!!! and a bit hard to find. For the 10 22 torque to 19 -22 torque low fire a few shots then increase by .5 lbs/inch until you come to a nice group - each has their own formula and system... whatever works...:wow:

True, but the expense could save a lot of time, efforts and ammo in tuning a rifle. Besides I wont understimate the financial capabilities of BoGs here:supergrin:

OTH, .22 rimfire rifles are more forgiving in terms of bedding reqts compared to center fire rifles. But a correct torque could solve persistent accuracy problems a lot of times. And once found, it needs to have it repeatedly and precisely to be consistent.

edtf
08-03-2010, 18:37
True, but the expense could save a lot of time, efforts and ammo in tuning a rifle. Besides I wont understimate the financial capabilities of BoGs here:supergrin:

OTH, .22 rimfire rifles are more forgiving in terms of bedding reqts compared to center fire rifles. But a correct torque could solve persistent accuracy problems a lot of times. And once found, it needs to have it repeatedly and precisely to be consistent.

Funny thing I just came from a specialized tool shop and inquired about torque wrenches - they have 1/2, 3/4 and 1/4 drive - ranging from 1,600-5k I think. I was planning to get one for my bikes.
Anyways shop is new panda hardware along araneta ave. WARNING: they have lots and lots of tools. I felt like a little boy in a toy shop. I got my dremel and digital caliper from them among other things :)

Taurus
08-03-2010, 20:41
I'd get one
Yan pala aantayin ko
Sana synthetic stock

Consider the CZ 452.

Gundog and I use it and we routinely punched the primer out of shotgun shells at 25 yards.

I use one with a synthetic stock. Ok naman; no maintenance. Bought it at PB Dionisio in 2008.

You can visit rimfirecentral.com for discussions on the CZ 452 and other 22's. The CZ 452 has a very strong following.

Putok-Glock
08-03-2010, 21:28
Funny thing I just came from a specialized tool shop and inquired about torque wrenches - they have 1/2, 3/4 and 1/4 drive - ranging from 1,600-5k I think. I was planning to get one for my bikes.
Anyways shop is new panda hardware along araneta ave. WARNING: they have lots and lots of tools. I felt like a little boy in a toy shop. I got my dremel and digital caliper from them among other things :)

Bro, if you dont mind, san malapit etong Panda sa araneta?

about torque wrenches, if you plan to use it later for rifle tuning, dapat mababa lang capacity and should be in inch-pound unit.

Allegra
08-03-2010, 23:08
Consider the CZ 452.

Gundog and I use it and we routinely punched the primer out of shotgun shells at 25 yards.

I use one with a synthetic stock. Ok naman; no maintenance. Bought it at PB Dionisio in 2008.

You can visit rimfirecentral.com for discussions on the CZ 452 and other 22's. The CZ 452 has a very strong following.

Atty, magkano kaya si CZ?

Parang bigla ako nagka idea!
Kung 45acp kaya from a 100 yards , instant gratification ang hits ! ( kung tamaan lang naman ) :) may explosion pa. Or is it an idiotic idea at tamaan lang ako ng shrapnel hehe

Taurus
08-04-2010, 00:12
Atty, magkano kaya si CZ?

Parang bigla ako nagka idea!
Kung 45acp kaya from a 100 yards , instant gratification ang hits ! ( kung tamaan lang naman ) :) may explosion pa. Or is it an idiotic idea at tamaan lang ako ng shrapnel hehe

Less than 23k bili ko noon, with discount na because I was still a card-carrying member of the PB Donisio Gun Club.



I just called PB Dionisio...37k na daw.:wow:

Eye Cutter
08-04-2010, 00:16
bro, bilihin ko na lang yan cz mo 27k! hahaha!

Allegra
08-04-2010, 00:25
Less than 23k bili ko noon, with discount na because I was still a card-carrying member of the PB Donisio Gun Club.



I just called PB Dionisio...37k na daw.:wow:

yikes! hehe ang bilis ng taas

Yung stainless synthetic 10-22, 12t lang nung 2001

Taurus
08-04-2010, 00:26
bro, bilihin ko na lang yan cz mo 27k! hahaha!


Di puwede bro, marami akong nakatalong pusa sa lugar namin...

Allegra
08-04-2010, 00:27
Atty, magkano kaya si CZ?

Parang bigla ako nagka idea!
Kung 45acp kaya from a 100 yards , instant gratification ang hits ! ( kung tamaan lang naman ) :) may explosion pa. Or is it an idiotic idea at tamaan lang ako ng shrapnel hehe


hehehe ang layo pala ng 100 yards, nanaginip ako
baka 25m nalang if I put the 45 round into a coconut or a banana tree

Taurus
08-04-2010, 00:44
hehehe ang layo pala ng 100 yards, nanaginip ako
baka 25m nalang if I put the 45 round into a coconut or a banana tree

Katakot yata yan a. Huwag siguro sa coconut tree. Because of a solid backstop the entire force of the explosion will be directed to the shell; shell could be forced back to the shooter. Kung sa saging more or less equal and opposing forces ang shell and slug.

Baka alam ni McO. Alleged Physics major siya e.

Puwede na ang pusa as reactive targets. Meron na rin siyang visual and audible feedback...(Joke lang ha. Baka isumbong niyo ako sa SPCA)

MERCMADE
08-04-2010, 01:40
Puwede na ang pusa as reactive targets. Meron na rin siyang visual and audible feedback...(Joke lang ha. Baka isumbong niyo ako sa SPCA)
:rofl:

edtf
08-04-2010, 02:44
Bro, if you dont mind, san malapit etong Panda sa araneta?

about torque wrenches, if you plan to use it later for rifle tuning, dapat mababa lang capacity and should be in inch-pound unit.

between aurora and e. rod if you are coming from aurora it is to the right before the last stop lite before e. rod

edtf
08-04-2010, 02:46
Less than 23k bili ko noon, with discount na because I was still a card-carrying member of the PB Donisio Gun Club.



I just called PB Dionisio...37k na daw.:wow:


I would love to get the 452 but out of the range. I would also recommend this one for those who have the budget but kung wala ok na irn ang ARMSCOR :supergrin:

Eye Cutter
08-04-2010, 09:42
yung cz 452 olympic match barrel na nakalagay di ba?

Taurus
08-04-2010, 20:42
yung cz 452 olympic match barrel na nakalagay di ba?


No, bro. Regular CZ barrels. From what I have read it is almost as accurate as an Anschutz; at least accurate enough to be a relatively cheap alternative for silhouette shooting and the like.

CZ 453 is even better daw. the sole but significant difference is that it has a two-stage trigger.

Wp.22
08-04-2010, 21:39
Doc EC, what are you waiting for go get yourself a .22 rifle since you are already finish with your 223/556

Eye Cutter
08-05-2010, 00:03
wait lang potsky. wala pa budget! bolt vs. semi: cz or armscor or remington vs. ruger 10/22 or marlin...

Wp.22
08-05-2010, 00:14
wait lang potsky. wala pa budget! bolt vs. semi: cz or armscor or remington vs. ruger 10/22 or marlin...

Bolt with 5 to 10 mag capacity para feeling sniper ka pag bolt action.

jaisan
08-05-2010, 01:53
bolt guns usually cheaper than semi- autos - note usually... Anschutz grabe ang cost, marlins nice, CZ's nice, Armscor - cheapest...
bolt guns easier to tune than semi- autos and cheaper to tune... to bring a ruger to it's best is expensive - trigger job, change barrel minsan, etc..
Bolt and semi auto - same in terms of accuracy once tuned -- although cost to get it there for the semi is usually more expensive.
Semi auto - ang bilis maubos yung bala - bolt - you tend to conserve ammo..
Semi auto - you go through the course pretty fast and less items to focus once you get things right.
Both have their pros and cons.... choose one, tune it, and master one....

edtf
08-05-2010, 05:19
Bolt with 5 to 10 mag capacity para feeling sniper ka pag bolt action.

I agree with Bro Pot!! :)

Wp.22
08-05-2010, 07:40
Bakit kaya wala pa akong nakita kalapati sa vista real what could be the reason?

Eye Cutter
08-05-2010, 08:18
wehehehe! kaya nga wala na ipot ng kalapati sa house ni gundog eh!~