Deal breaker? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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okie
07-10-2010, 07:53
A comment Brian made about his new Rem 1911 got me to thinkin. He said he preferred the series 70, but the series 80 wasn't a deal breaker for him. That Kimber Covert was the only 1911 I ever owned that had the firing pin block, and I had no trouble with it, but I have decided that from here on out only series 70 for me. Call me petty if you want:tease::supergrin:

Quack
07-10-2010, 08:05
which Petty, Kyle or Richard? :rofl:

okie
07-10-2010, 08:11
which Petty, Kyle or Richard? :rofl:

Richard for sure:supergrin::rofl:

bac1023
07-10-2010, 08:22
which Petty, Kyle or Richard? :rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

bac1023
07-10-2010, 08:25
A comment Brian made about his new Rem 1911 got me to thinkin. He said he preferred the series 70, but the series 80 wasn't a deal breaker for him. That Kimber Covert was the only 1911 I ever owned that had the firing pin block, and I had no trouble with it, but I have decided that from here on out only series 70 for me. Call me petty if you want:tease::supergrin:

Okie, the Kimber is neither 70 or 80. Its uses a totally different sort of FP safety.

While I don't like any of them, I think I actually prefer how Kimber does it. :dunno:

I just don't care for the series 80 design. That said, it obviously doesn't stop me from buying them. I am surprised Remington decided to use it though.

willis68
07-10-2010, 08:29
I hoped that the R1 would be a series 70, It is a deal breaker for me, I would have owned one already if it was not a series 80:crying:

Quack
07-10-2010, 08:36
Richard, the Kimber is neither 70 or 80. Its uses a totally different sort of FP safety.

While I don't like any of them, I think I actually prefer how Kimber does it. :dunno:

I just don't care for the series 80 design. That said, it obviously doesn't stop me from buying them. I am surprised Remington decided to use it though.


Fixed it for you :rofl:

i don't care for 80 Series either, but i bought one anyway.

the 80 series works off the trigger bow, while the Schwartz works off of the grip safety.

http://www.m1911.org/images/safety.jpg

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/SII_FPB.jpg

bac1023
07-10-2010, 08:39
I hoped that the R1 would be a series 70, It is a deal breaker for me, I would have owned one already if it was not a series 80:crying:

Yeah, all the other new 1911s on the market are series 70, such as Iver Johnson, Regent, ATI, EMF, and Magnum Research.

I guess Remington, being a HUGE American Firearms manufacturer, decided to be "politically" correct. :dunno: Either way, it sucks. :upeyes:

I think Colt should give it a rest too. I think if they did, the rest would follow.

I have this Special Combat, which is Colt's top of the line 1911 these days, and its a series 80. People who shell out the money that Colt charges for this model, DON'T want that nonsense in their gun. That's the one thing I don't like about it.

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/001-4.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/003-1.jpg

okie
07-10-2010, 08:40
Okie, the Kimber is neither 70 or 80. Its uses a totally different sort of FP safety.

While I don't like any of them, I think I actually prefer how Kimber does it. :dunno:

I just don't care for the series 80 design. That said, it obviously doesn't stop me from buying them. I am surprised Remington decided to use it though.

I guess I didn't know there was a difference. What is the difference between the series 80 and Kimber's:headscratch:

bac1023
07-10-2010, 08:40
Fixed it for you :rofl:

:rofl::rofl:






.

BOGE
07-10-2010, 08:40
NEWSFLASH!!!!

You can strip out the Series 80 parts on true Colt style as well as some others. C&S used to make a part for this.

okie
07-10-2010, 08:41
I guess I didn't know there was a difference. What is the difference between the series 80 and Kimber's:headscratch:

Never mind I saw Quacks thread:embarassed:

bac1023
07-10-2010, 08:42
I guess I didn't know there was a difference. What is the difference between the series 80 and Kimber's:headscratch:

Kimber's is activated by the grip safety, while Colt's is designed around the trigger pull.

Kimber's just seems like a cleaner design. I hate working around a series 80 safety.

Once again, I don't like either.









.

bac1023
07-10-2010, 08:42
Never mind I saw Quacks thread:embarassed:

Yeah, I just realized that he beat me to it. :embarassed:

brisk21
07-10-2010, 08:44
Yeah, all the other new 1911s on the market are series 70, such as Iver Johnson, Regent, ATI, EMF, and Magnum Research.

I guess Remington, being a HUGE American Firearms manufacturer, decided to be "politically" correct. :dunno: Either way, it sucks. :upeyes:

I think Colt should give it a rest too. I think if they did, the rest would follow.

I have this Special Combat, which is Colt's top of the line 1911 these days, and its a series 80. People who shell out the money that Colt charges for this model, DON'T want that nonsense in their gun. That's the one thing I don't like about it.

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/001-4.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/003-1.jpg

Yeah, I was gonna buy one of these til I found out its a series 80. Oh well, I didn't want target sights anyways. Im much happier with my TRP.

bac1023
07-10-2010, 08:48
Yeah, I was gonna buy one of these til I found out its a series 80. Oh well, I didn't want target sights anyways. Im much happier with my TRP.



I actually like it slight better than my TRP, but there's no way the Special Combat should be a series 80 gun. It should be based off their new series 70 guns.

If Colt wants to use it for their XSE series or even the Gold Cup Trophy, fine, but not the Special Combat.

faawrenchbndr
07-10-2010, 08:48
May the Schwartz be wit' you!,..........or not. :whistling:

I perfer not.

bac1023
07-10-2010, 08:52
May the Schwartz be wit' you!,..........or not. :whistling:

I perfer not.

Me too :)

That said, all my Kimbers are series II. :upeyes: Oh well :sigh:

bac1023
07-10-2010, 09:10
I actually like it slight better than my TRP, but there's no way the Special Combat should be a series 80 gun. It should be based off their new series 70 guns.

If Colt wants to use it for their XSE series or even the Gold Cup Trophy, fine, but not the Special Combat.


Along these same lines, I wanted to also mention that I feel even stronger that Smith & Wesson uses the series 80 in their Performance Center 1911s. Once again, if they want to use it in their standard SW1911s and everything in between, fine, but I feel its ridiculous they use it at the Performance Center. These are 1911s priced right at the beginning of semi custom 1911 territory. As I said before, people buying $2000 1911s DON'T want that crap. :upeyes:

Springfield uses the goofy key lock on the mainspring housing, which I don't like anymore than the firing pin safeties, but at least they have enough sense to keep it off their custom guns.







.

brzusa.1911
07-10-2010, 09:49
I am also against fpb, not even consider buying a gun with one unless it is a very good deal and I can send it to a good gunsmith for a series 70 conversion.

MD357
07-10-2010, 10:06
I've seen Kimber's FPS fail where the small rod that protrudes out of the frame breaks off. I will not own one of these guns without removing these parts. My carry gun was built off a Colt S80 and I have no reservations with it but it was run through by a competent gunsmith. :supergrin:

Generally, I prefer S70s guns as I don't see the point.

watarski
07-10-2010, 10:22
I guess I've been lucky with the 3 1911's I've owned - none of them have been series 80. Cleaned a buddies Colt yesterday while showing him how to break it down...suffice to say I won't ever own a series 80 pistol.

Jim Watson
07-10-2010, 10:53
If you know the difference between a clip and a magazine you also need to know:

1. Series 70 and Series 80 are Colt trademarks. If it isn't a Colt it isn't a Series 70 or 80. I prefer to say with or without firing pin obstruction.

2. That's Swartz, not Schwartz. And the design originated at Colt in the 1930s. They dropped it when they went to war production and never brought it back. There is an internet legend that they designed the Series 80 firing pin block because Mr Swartz had negotiated perpetual license fees and they would have to pay his heirs if they went back to his design. I think it more likely that they thought a trigger actuated firing pin block would be "safer" than one working off the grip safety. I think Kimber went to a MIM copy of the Swartz so customers could not complain about it affecting the trigger pull. The Smith & Wesson firing pin block works off the grip safety too, but the linkage is different from Kimber or Colt/Swartz.

Para Ordnance, Sig-Sauer, and Taurus use the same setup as Colt Series 80. But at least one Taurus shooter has found that the parts are not interchangeable.

faawrenchbndr
07-10-2010, 11:04
Nitpick Alert
.........That's Swartz, not Schwartz.......


Nitpick Reply
dAYUmn,....watch the flippin movie! :rant:

Quack
07-10-2010, 11:08
Schwartz is funnier

http://kosherspaghetti.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/schwartz.jpg

faawrenchbndr
07-10-2010, 11:09
Nice to see someone caught that!:whistling:

bac1023
07-10-2010, 11:19
Series 70 and Series 80 are Colt trademarks. If it isn't a Colt it isn't a Series 70 or 80. I prefer to say with or without firing pin obstruction.



Very true.

Its just that people understand the difference a bit easier when spoken in "Colt terms". ;)

bac1023
07-10-2010, 11:20
Para Ordnance, Sig-Sauer, and Taurus use the same setup as Colt Series 80. But at least one Taurus shooter has found that the parts are not interchangeable.

As does Smith & Wesson, no?

Quack
07-10-2010, 11:25
Very true.

Its just that people understand the difference a bit easier when spoken in "Colt terms". ;)


not really, the first thing i think of when someone says "Colt 45"

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/06/hardees_badthings/image/colt_45.jpg

bac1023
07-10-2010, 11:42
That was some pretty strong beer, IIRC. :supergrin:

Quack
07-10-2010, 11:48
has a little kick :animlol:

Tactical black
07-10-2010, 11:51
NEWSFLASH!!!!

You can strip out the Series 80 parts on true Colt style as well as some others. C&S used to make a part for this.

How hard is it to convert I knew it could be done but is that a expensive conversion?

Quack
07-10-2010, 11:57
How hard is it to convert I knew it could be done but is that a expensive conversion?

if you can detail strip it, you can do the conversion.
pull out the 80 series stuff and install the spacer.
(red, blue & yellow)
http://www.m1911.org/images/safety.jpg


http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=13121/Product/1911_AUTO_FRAME_SLOT_BLANK

http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/p_876011780_1.jpg

faawrenchbndr
07-10-2010, 11:59
How hard is it to convert I knew it could be done but is that a expensive conversion?

See the link below, this spacer is inserted in place of the lever.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=13121/Product/1911_AUTO_FRAME_SLOT_BLANK

Jim Watson
07-10-2010, 12:10
Para Ordnance, Sig-Sauer, and Taurus use the same setup as Colt Series 80.

As does Smith & Wesson, no?

No.
The SW1911 actuates the firing pin obstruction off the grip safety. But the linkage is different from Kimber or the old Colt Swartz.

Tactical black
07-10-2010, 12:13
if you can detail strip it, you can do the conversion.
pull out the 80 series stuff and install the spacer.
(red, blue & yellow)
http://www.m1911.org/images/safety.jpg


http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=13121/Product/1911_AUTO_FRAME_SLOT_BLANK

http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/p_876011780_1.jpg

Thanks I've been looking at a Colt stainless commander that is 80 series an I want it really bad I might take the plunge.

MD357
07-10-2010, 12:32
My Les Baer and Wilsons are S70 guns.... :supergrin:

Oh noes!!! Did I break the laws of the wannabe purists out there?

I also generally refer to 4" guns a commander "SIZED" when I know some are not TRUE commanders.....

Oh the HORROR!!! :whistling:

willis68
07-10-2010, 12:37
My Les Baer and Wilsons are S70 guns.... :supergrin:

Oh noes!!! Did I break the laws of the wannabe purists out there?

I also generally refer to 4" guns a commander "SIZED" when I know some are not TRUE commanders.....

Oh the HORROR!!! :whistling:

You should be arrested for such crimes :cop::cop::cop::cop:

bac1023
07-10-2010, 12:51
has a little kick :animlol:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

bac1023
07-10-2010, 12:52
My Les Baer and Wilsons are S70 guns.... :supergrin:

Oh noes!!! Did I break the laws of the wannabe purists out there?

I also generally refer to 4" guns a commander "SIZED" when I know some are not TRUE commanders.....

Oh the HORROR!!! :whistling:

I also refer to 4" 1911s as commanders, even though they're a quarter inch short. :)

samuse
07-10-2010, 15:46
I like the original design best, but I have a series 80 that is one of the 3 1911s that I kept. If the 3 parts are tuned correctly, they won't cause problems and the trigger can still be very good. I think Kimbers idea is not so hot, as the the FPS is deactivated every time you hold the gun. Also, if the gun is dropped on the muzzle, there's a good chance that the grip safety would disengage, in turn disengaging the FPS. Where's the logic in that? If I have some kind of FPS, I would like to have the false sense of security that the series 80 gives me:supergrin:

Jim Watson
07-10-2010, 15:52
You notice that the makers of 4-4.25" knockoffs don't call them Commanders? Another Colt trademark. Only one I could find on a quick Google was the Communist Chinese Norinco and they are no respecters of copyrights.

RonS
07-10-2010, 16:19
Good old Bob Serva used to have a problem with naming things, he just never seemed to get it, as nice a guy as he is he used the Commander name more than once. I was always surprised that Colt didn't slap him for it.

I must not have been reading all the threads on the new Remington, I didn't realize it used the FPS. Guess I will keep my Champion and keep improving on it.

bac1023
07-10-2010, 16:46
You notice that the makers of 4-4.25" knockoffs don't call them Commanders? Another Colt trademark. Only one I could find on a quick Google was the Communist Chinese Norinco and they are no respecters of copyrights.

Because Colt pioneered many things 1911, that's the way other builders are viewed as well. Whether its a Colt term or not, that's just the way it works.

Some even go out of their way to call it something else, like Les Baer for example. They're still commanders in my eyes.

faawrenchbndr
07-10-2010, 17:30
You notice that the makers of 4-4.25" knockoffs don't call them Commanders? Another Colt trademark. Only one I could find on a quick Google was the Communist Chinese Norinco and they are no respecters of copyrights.

Because Colt pioneered many things 1911, that's the way other builders are viewed as well. Whether its a Colt term or not, that's just the way it works.

Some even go out of their way to call it something else, like Les Baer for example. They're still commanders in my eyes.

I had several Commanders during my military career, last one was a Lt. Col
Good thing Colt did not hear about that!:whistling:

Jim S.
07-10-2010, 19:26
[QUOTE=samuse;15616245] If the 3 parts are tuned correctly, they won't cause problems and the trigger can still be very good.QUOTE]

I agree. There are also some aftermarket parts that replace the series 80 parts that are coated and polished to be very smooth and bring the trigger feel back closer to "normal".
These and the piece that converts back to series 70 can be purchased from Brownells.
I think the only draw back with the series 80 is when you strip it for cleaning.
Not really anymore difficult to put back together but just extra crap that doesn't need to be there.
I have a series 80 1991A1 that I really like because it is a very good shooter.
I have left it almost stock other than getting rid of some parts of questionable quality and replaced them with the "Bullet Proof" parts.

MD357
07-10-2010, 22:46
You notice that the makers of 4-4.25" knockoffs don't call them Commanders? Another Colt trademark. Only one I could find on a quick Google was the Communist Chinese Norinco and they are no respecters of copyrights.

Ya think? They are trying to set themselves apart. Sorry, but if I walk into a bunch of guys and talk about a "government," "commander," or "officer," sized 1911 they'll know what I mean. With all the tacticool BS names out there from various companies, it's just too much for people to keep up with. If you say "champion" "ultra" or "pro" sized, people will look at you funny. Speaking from experience.

Geeorge
07-10-2010, 23:16
which Petty, Kyle or Richard? :rofl:

Come on now if you are gonna be a "Petty",



the one to be is TOM:wavey:

bac1023
07-10-2010, 23:20
Come on now if you are gonna be a "Petty",



the one to be is TOM:wavey:



:animlol: