The state trooper shooting that made NY SP change to .45 GAP [Archive] - Glock Talk

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cowboy1964
07-11-2010, 20:14
The Andrew Sperr NY SP trooper killing in 2006 was what prompted the NY SP to move from 9mm to .45 GAP. I've been trying to find more detailed info on what the wounds were to the two murderers. This is the most I've found so far:

http://www.theppsc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=732

Despite being shot, Bennett says Sperr fired off several rounds at Horton and Adams. Horton received four gunshot wounds. Adams received one gunshot wound to the back.

Anyone have more details?

Berto
07-12-2010, 19:29
Not sure where .45 would have improved things.
Sperr was shot first, possibly by a .357mag revolver.
He returned fire after being shot, to BG's inside a car, wounding both.
I don't see enough info to really ascertain .45GAP> 9mm or vice versa.

fredj338
07-13-2010, 00:25
Agencies are always looking for "maigc bullets" to help their LEO. What they really need is tougher qualifying & better training. All handguns rounds are marginal stoppers, so the advantage has to go with better bullet placement.

gatorboy
07-13-2010, 06:38
I did'nt bother reading the link but if what I read two posts up is correct, the GAP may have not done as well as the 9mm in this scenario. The 9mm is better through hard barriers than the ACP or GAP in most instances. SD x V with same bullet profile and material, higher velocity wins.

I like the ACP and have no real problem with the GAP but IMO, neither are as good for LE applications as 9mm, .40 or 357 auto. Capacity and barrier penetration are the only reasons why. Both make outstanding SD calibers for the average citizen (maybe the best?) aside from truck drivers maybe.

degoodman
07-13-2010, 10:38
Agencies are always looking for "maigc bullets" to help their LEO. What they really need is tougher qualifying & better training. All handguns rounds are marginal stoppers, so the advantage has to go with better bullet placement.

This.

New guns or a change in ammo are cheap. More training and tougher, more frequent quals are far more expensive.

Unfortunately, I also believe that much of the current trending towards .45 in LE circles is window dressing for non-gun officers who are flat stupid when it comes to caliber. I personally know more than one officer that honestly believes that a .45 will "knock a man down" following recent transitions to that caliber or authorization of it at their agency.

The counter-argument to that is that there is probably as much value in the officers having faith in their equipment as there is in it being genuinely superior. If the troops have given up on the 9mm or the .40 it may be better to switch it up for a while just to get the bad taste out of their mouth, whether or not what they switch to really is an improvement. Eventually they figure out that they're holding a pistol, not a GAU-8, and which one really doesn't matter a whole lot.

Retseh
07-13-2010, 20:51
And when the 45GAP has it's first failure to stop, what will they switch to then.

Maybe a 4 inch .38 Special loaded with 158 grain round nose lead is the answer.

dakrat
07-13-2010, 21:05
And when the 45GAP has it's first failure to stop, what will they switch to then.

Maybe a 4 inch .38 Special loaded with 158 grain round nose lead is the answer.

10mm :supergrin:

mikegun
07-14-2010, 15:32
I will say this, the Los Angeles Sheriffs Office carries 9mm barrettas, and have for years, they shoot a lot of bad guys with then and seem to have VERY GOOD RESULTS, when all is said and done,its where u place the bullet that mastters.

MURRAY
07-14-2010, 19:52
it was one of the issues that caused changes so did the Bucky Phillips hunt.

Fire1
07-14-2010, 20:05
Agencies are always looking for "maigc bullets" to help their LEO. What they really need is tougher qualifying & better training. All handguns rounds are marginal stoppers, so the advantage has to go with better bullet placement.

QFT...

Look at what happened to Trooper Coates in the early 90's. He put a bunch of rounds from his .357 mag point blank into a guys chest...that same guy fired a shot from a .22 and it found its way past his vest and killed him. Shot placement is king.